I think drow make great villains (BG2 Underdark, Valsharess in NWN:HotU).
But I absolutely can't stand all the PC me-too Drizzt clones, and the "we're not evil, only misunderstood" drow characters like Viconia. I have never played a run using Viconia. I rescue her from being unfairly executed, and then send her packing. As a character that surfacers should believably be adventuring with, no. I absolutely can... not... *stand* her. Same for Baeloth.
When I see one of the many drow-lover threads around the forum, my eyes involuntarily roll, my head shakes, I heave a heavy sigh, and I find something else to read.
(also ducks for cover)
For me, Viconia joining comes across as an adult decision to make, and after being hunted across the Sword Coast, captured by Irenicus and tortured, plus all the numerous fights to the death, I'm an adult. Life stopped being black and white and simple 1/2 mile down the road from Candlekeep.
I don't have a "we're not evil just misunderstood" pov. I don't care, just need followers who will help keep me alive.
I want and need loyalty, (even if it's self interest), Viconia offers that, as do most of the "evil" NPCs. In the situation I am in in the game, hell I'd accept a mindflayer in the party if they had enough of a backstory/circumstance that made me judge they would be loyal.
Sorry, @GenderNihilismGirdle , I'm not interested in arguing about this. That's why I posted my true feelings about it in the unpopular opinions thread, because I know good and well that drow-lovers can't resist writing huge treatises defending the drow, and to make huge threads going back and forth about it.
Doing the same thing here is completely off-topic. The whole point of the unpopular opinions thread, in my opinion (pun intended) is to express how you really feel about things without having to argue about it.
Okey, let's ride: 1. Romances in BG games are ridiculous and awful... 2. ...but triangle with Haer'dalis makes Aerie's romance the best. 3. She is adorable and I really like her. 4. And Viconia is annoyingly edgy. 5. There is only one NPC with less personality than Valygar I encountered in Bioware game - Tali from Mass Effect. 6. I'm choosing Xzar over Edwin every time. Xzar is SO AMUSING, and I see no reason why Bhaalspawn would work with Edwin - good characters wouldn't, because he is evil, and evil wouldn't, because he has no reason no to betray us any moment. 7. I hate that instead of fun evil thief like Montaron we get overpowered Hexxat. If you are OMG SO GOOD AT EVERYTHING, you're not interesting character. You're boring. 8. Both Tiax and Eldoth are pretty useful. Tiax has ghast summoning that until late chapters is great ability, and Eldoth - free poisoned arrows. 9. I think that Watcher's Keep is better than Durlag's Tower. 10. I think ToB is cool and it definitely has the best music in entire series. 11. Those games love two-handed swords way too much - both in the matter of numbers of magical zweihanders and joinable NPCs who specilize in it. 12. I find CHARNAMEs who aren't human unbelievable. 13. I find CHARNAMEs who aren't fighters, wizards or thieves unbelievable. I mean, who did you become Avenger exactly? But kits are cool though. 14. I find cleric CHARNAMES ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE AND NO WAY IN HELL WILL EVER HAVE ONE. Why any deity would grant powers to person who can become God of Murder?! 15. I think kits are way too OP for BG1 and they should be chosen after you reach level 9 or something (maybe with exception of mage specialization). I mean, assassins and inquisitors are making every fight with mages a joke, and berserker with his rage... 16. I think rolling something around 90 is more believable story-wise than 75. You are child of Bhaal, you are supposed to be born more powerful. Sarevok is 97, or something. And yes, it's okay to have everything above 10 and it doesn't make it bad roleplay. You are prince among men, right? 17. There is nothing wrong with winning battles with wand of paralyzation or potions of explosions, or anything. 18. There is nothing wrong with defeating Irenicus at the Tree with scroll of magic protection. If he didn't prepare for opportunity that we'll have that scroll - too bad. He should've plan better. 19. While Jan is really useful as illusionist/thief, I hate him story-wise. Comic-relief NPC is good for half an hour quest, not entire game. 20. It applies to Minsc as well... 21. ...but not to Tiax, because I like him. I'm unfair, I know. 20. Drows are stupid. Beholders are stupid (and look hilarious). Ithilids are stupid. Everything about Underdark is stupid. 21. There is no reason why combat should be realistic or even pretend to be. You are child of god, it's okay if you dual-wield warhammers or throw ten darts a second. 22. Gnomes are halfling could've been removed as playable races and it wouldn't make a difference. Only reedeming quality they have is Montaron. 23. Playing Stupid Evil with 1 Reputation and bounty hunters, paladins are Flaming Fist after you is incredibly fun. 24. It applies also to BG2. 25. Backstab isn't as good from tactical point of view as stealth. 26. There is nothing wrong with Anomen. 27. Lightning is pretty much useless. 28. I never could achieve AC lower than -3 in BG 1 with SCS nor I ever felt need to lower it. 29. I know it's not "unpopular", but I gotta say it: BRING LOADING SCREENS BACK! 30. My Bhaalspawn could, like, totally take your Bhaalspawn. Yeah. Like, with one hand only and blind-folded. 31. Using certain console commands improves experience from roleplaying point of view: like speeding up time so it seems like it takes weeks to get to Nashkel, or healing before resting to avoid sleeping for eternity, or spawning additional enemies in important battles, or killing characters, that should've stay dead. 32. I'd love to have more race-only kits, race restrictions and I'd welcome gender-rectrictions. 33. Plot of BG1 is better than BG2 and Iron's Throne intrigue is supreme. They aren't about stupid "ruling the world", but simply ruthless merchants who want to make money, like mafia. And they are cool. 34. I also think BG1 isn't very "generic" - you have no orcs, or goblins, or dragons, and instead fight hobgoblins, half-ogres, tasloi, doppelgangers, sirinas, ankhegs; your arch-enemy isn't a powerful mage or lich, or dragon, but exceptionally intelligent warrior. So, yeah. 35. Random encounters until SoD were just an annoyance. 36. Faerun doesn't make any sense and it works as long as you don't think about it. 37. I think churches of similiar deities - like Tyr and Torm - should be more conflicted than with obvioulsy antagonistic gods. Tyrm and Tor have similar "target", so they should compete for it. 38. Demonic knight is harder than Aec'Letec. 39. That Nuber in SoD wasn't charming and all "oh cool, nod to Noober and Neeber!". Not. At. All. 40. Korgan is just a copy of Kagain and there is no reason for him to exist.
I don't know if it's a popular opinion or not that the unpopular opinion thread has a lot of popular opinions in it framed as unpopular opinions, but if it's unpopular then here I go with an unpopular opinion (and if it's not, then I guess I'm following the trend I have an opinion about lmao)
I don't know if it's a popular opinion or not that the unpopular opinion thread has a lot of popular opinions in it framed as unpopular opinions, but if it's unpopular then here I go with an unpopular opinion (and if it's not, then I guess I'm following the trend I have an opinion about lmao)
That point's been made several times, so I think it's a popular opinion.
I think all mages should be wild mages, as magic should be dangerous and unpredictable. Specialist mages should be immune to wild surges in their chosen school and give up the opposing school.
I think all mages should be wild mages, as magic should be dangerous and unpredictable. Specialist mages should be immune to wild surges in their chosen school and give up the opposing school.
I honestly don't understand why people hate dragonborn.
@BelleSorciere Because its not what they are use too, people hate change and no matter how long ago the change may have happen, some people will never accept it. I personally still don't understand why people love tolkien elves, but they suck their...
@artona regarding your 14th and given you can choose to become both a good or an evil god, it makes sense for any deity to give you powers. Very little effort for a possible huge profit (another ally in heaven or whatever is called in FR)
@Buttercheese and @BelgarathMTH I wish that I could role play with you two, I swear to Bahamut I would be a half dragonborn, half drow who is a miss understood good guy. I would spend my entire life trying to do villainy, which always somehow turns out to be the right choice or action that empowers good and everyone would praise me as a hero despite how hard I try to do evil and garner their ire.
regarding your 14th and given you can choose to become both a good or an evil god, it makes sense for any deity to give you powers. Very little effort for a possible huge profit (another ally in heaven or whatever is called in FR)
Touche, but I still think it's veeeeery risky. If you turn out to be evil, then there is little chance that you'd feel obligated to be grateful, and, as it's said, power corrupts.
@Abi_Dalzim and @Malicron I just combed over the cleric entries in both the 5e PHB and the 5e Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and I don't see any mention of that, there isn't even a mention of pantheon-focused worship outside of talking about lay people focusing on a wide variety of gods in their daily life in the religion section of the SCAG, so it seems like they've gone back to "you have to follow a deity" in 5e
Did nontheistic clerics exist in 2nd edition? Because they do now, at least.
WHAT?!?! That's (literal) blasphemy! How does that even work? Where does their power come from?!
I don't know about 4th, but in 3.x the excuse was that clerics without a deity channeled energy from their home plane, so the Outlands if you were True Neutral, one of the Lawful and Good leaning planes if you were Lawful Good, etc.
"I love how dramatic and larger-than-life ToB's soundtrack is. It really makes you feel like a level 30 demigod on your way to a massive grand finale."
41. Liralcor (or however that talking sword is called) is funny for 15 minutes, not more. After that, his comments start to be annoying. 42. Monks are the most despicable class, both for CHARNAME, for NPC, for enemy, because of they special-snowflakery; they hit like fighters, yet lay hands, yet are resistant to magic, yet are immune to poison, can kill with one hit... I kill every monk I meet, I never use Rasaad and I hate them all. What are they even doing in supposedly medieval fantasy world?!
Did nontheistic clerics exist in 2nd edition? Because they do now, at least.
WHAT?!?! That's (literal) blasphemy! How does that even work? Where does their power come from?!
They devote themselves to ideals as opposed to actual gods. So a cleric devoted to, say, Good would get their power from the universe itself, in a way. Given that there's plenty of other powers that relate to alignment as something tangible, it's not as crazy as it sounds.
But aren't the gods defined by their portfolios? And the portfolios basically being the domain? So if I play a non-deity cleric, I worship the idea behind a deity. So basically I still worship them even though I refuse to call them by name.
PS: That reminds me of the scene where Montolio converts Drizzt to worship Miellikki. He's like "Bro, you have been serving her the entire time, I am just giving you a name."
41. Liralcor (or however that talking sword is called) is funny for 15 minutes, not more. After that, his comments start to be annoying. 42. Monks are the most despicable class, both for CHARNAME, for NPC, for enemy, because of they special-snowflakery; they hit like fighters, yet hold hands, yet are resistant to magic, yet are immune to poison, can kill with one hit... I kill every monk I meet, I never use Rasaad and I hate them all. What are they even doing in supposedly medieval fantasy world?!
Think of monks as fist mages. They channel magic through their bodies rather than releasing it as a spell. Hence why they did like flies at lvl 1 and are gods at lvl 30.
Think of monks as fist mages. They channel magic through their bodies rather than releasing it as a spell. Hence why they did like flies at lvl 1 and are gods at lvl 30.
42. Monks are the most despicable class, both for CHARNAME, for NPC, for enemy, because of they special-snowflakery; they hit like fighters, yet lay hands, yet are resistant to magic, yet are immune to poison, can kill with one hit... I kill every monk I meet, I never use Rasaad and I hate them all. What are they even doing in supposedly medieval fantasy world?!
Monks hit like Thiefs (Thief THAC0) not Fighters. In the beginning, they have crap AC, crap damage, crap THAC0, crap skills, crap utility and the healing is self-only.
Also, from Player's Handbook 3.5E (Monks in BG2 were basically imported from 3E): "Though a monk casts no spells, she has a magic of her own. She channels a subtle energy, called ki, which allows her to perform amazing feats.
Priests use divine energy, mages use arcane energy, monks use Ki energy.
Indeed. Some people just think that the European flavor of many nations in D&D settings must necessarily preclude monks, but of course that is not necessarily true and there's no need to hold fantasy settings to perceived limitations of real world nations.
Touche, but I still think it's veeeeery risky. If you turn out to be evil, then there is little chance that you'd feel obligated to be grateful, and, as it's said, power corrupts.
Only risky for Good Gods if you fail in Hell. Evil Gods have a free ally. But hey, maybe those good gods hate Cyric enough to try and take power from him, even with the associated risks
Comments
For me, Viconia joining comes across as an adult decision to make, and after being hunted across the Sword Coast, captured by Irenicus and tortured, plus all the numerous fights to the death, I'm an adult.
Life stopped being black and white and simple 1/2 mile down the road from Candlekeep.
I don't have a "we're not evil just misunderstood" pov. I don't care, just need followers who will help keep me alive.
I want and need loyalty, (even if it's self interest), Viconia offers that, as do most of the "evil" NPCs. In the situation I am in in the game, hell I'd accept a mindflayer in the party if they had enough of a backstory/circumstance that made me judge they would be loyal.
I was nice and as open about it as I could muster when I tipped my hand and got several pro-drow treatises written in this thread:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/49492/elven-pantheon
Doing the same thing here is completely off-topic. The whole point of the unpopular opinions thread, in my opinion (pun intended) is to express how you really feel about things without having to argue about it.
1. Romances in BG games are ridiculous and awful...
2. ...but triangle with Haer'dalis makes Aerie's romance the best.
3. She is adorable and I really like her.
4. And Viconia is annoyingly edgy.
5. There is only one NPC with less personality than Valygar I encountered in Bioware game - Tali from Mass Effect.
6. I'm choosing Xzar over Edwin every time. Xzar is SO AMUSING, and I see no reason why Bhaalspawn would work with Edwin - good characters wouldn't, because he is evil, and evil wouldn't, because he has no reason no to betray us any moment.
7. I hate that instead of fun evil thief like Montaron we get overpowered Hexxat. If you are OMG SO GOOD AT EVERYTHING, you're not interesting character. You're boring.
8. Both Tiax and Eldoth are pretty useful. Tiax has ghast summoning that until late chapters is great ability, and Eldoth - free poisoned arrows.
9. I think that Watcher's Keep is better than Durlag's Tower.
10. I think ToB is cool and it definitely has the best music in entire series.
11. Those games love two-handed swords way too much - both in the matter of numbers of magical zweihanders and joinable NPCs who specilize in it.
12. I find CHARNAMEs who aren't human unbelievable.
13. I find CHARNAMEs who aren't fighters, wizards or thieves unbelievable. I mean, who did you become Avenger exactly? But kits are cool though.
14. I find cleric CHARNAMES ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE AND NO WAY IN HELL WILL EVER HAVE ONE. Why any deity would grant powers to person who can become God of Murder?!
15. I think kits are way too OP for BG1 and they should be chosen after you reach level 9 or something (maybe with exception of mage specialization). I mean, assassins and inquisitors are making every fight with mages a joke, and berserker with his rage...
16. I think rolling something around 90 is more believable story-wise than 75. You are child of Bhaal, you are supposed to be born more powerful. Sarevok is 97, or something. And yes, it's okay to have everything above 10 and it doesn't make it bad roleplay. You are prince among men, right?
17. There is nothing wrong with winning battles with wand of paralyzation or potions of explosions, or anything.
18. There is nothing wrong with defeating Irenicus at the Tree with scroll of magic protection. If he didn't prepare for opportunity that we'll have that scroll - too bad. He should've plan better.
19. While Jan is really useful as illusionist/thief, I hate him story-wise. Comic-relief NPC is good for half an hour quest, not entire game.
20. It applies to Minsc as well...
21. ...but not to Tiax, because I like him. I'm unfair, I know.
20. Drows are stupid. Beholders are stupid (and look hilarious). Ithilids are stupid. Everything about Underdark is stupid.
21. There is no reason why combat should be realistic or even pretend to be. You are child of god, it's okay if you dual-wield warhammers or throw ten darts a second.
22. Gnomes are halfling could've been removed as playable races and it wouldn't make a difference. Only reedeming quality they have is Montaron.
23. Playing Stupid Evil with 1 Reputation and bounty hunters, paladins are Flaming Fist after you is incredibly fun.
24. It applies also to BG2.
25. Backstab isn't as good from tactical point of view as stealth.
26. There is nothing wrong with Anomen.
27. Lightning is pretty much useless.
28. I never could achieve AC lower than -3 in BG 1 with SCS nor I ever felt need to lower it.
29. I know it's not "unpopular", but I gotta say it: BRING LOADING SCREENS BACK!
30. My Bhaalspawn could, like, totally take your Bhaalspawn. Yeah. Like, with one hand only and blind-folded.
31. Using certain console commands improves experience from roleplaying point of view: like speeding up time so it seems like it takes weeks to get to Nashkel, or healing before resting to avoid sleeping for eternity, or spawning additional enemies in important battles, or killing characters, that should've stay dead.
32. I'd love to have more race-only kits, race restrictions and I'd welcome gender-rectrictions.
33. Plot of BG1 is better than BG2 and Iron's Throne intrigue is supreme. They aren't about stupid "ruling the world", but simply ruthless merchants who want to make money, like mafia. And they are cool.
34. I also think BG1 isn't very "generic" - you have no orcs, or goblins, or dragons, and instead fight hobgoblins, half-ogres, tasloi, doppelgangers, sirinas, ankhegs; your arch-enemy isn't a powerful mage or lich, or dragon, but exceptionally intelligent warrior. So, yeah.
35. Random encounters until SoD were just an annoyance.
36. Faerun doesn't make any sense and it works as long as you don't think about it.
37. I think churches of similiar deities - like Tyr and Torm - should be more conflicted than with obvioulsy antagonistic gods. Tyrm and Tor have similar "target", so they should compete for it.
38. Demonic knight is harder than Aec'Letec.
39. That Nuber in SoD wasn't charming and all "oh cool, nod to Noober and Neeber!". Not. At. All.
40. Korgan is just a copy of Kagain and there is no reason for him to exist.
PS In point 22, there should "gnomes *AND* halflings".
QFT, and i point back to my above statement. @Abi_Dalzim
Oh you would hate me >.> @BelleSorciere
Because its not what they are use too, people hate change and no matter how long ago the change may have happen, some people will never accept it. I personally still don't understand why people love tolkien elves, but they suck their...
STOP CENSORING ME MODS!
I wish that I could role play with you two, I swear to Bahamut I would be a half dragonborn, half drow who is a miss understood good guy. I would spend my entire life trying to do villainy, which always somehow turns out to be the right choice or action that empowers good and everyone would praise me as a hero despite how hard I try to do evil and garner their ire.
"I love how dramatic and larger-than-life ToB's soundtrack is. It really makes you feel like a level 30 demigod on your way to a massive grand finale."
42. Monks are the most despicable class, both for CHARNAME, for NPC, for enemy, because of they special-snowflakery; they hit like fighters, yet lay hands, yet are resistant to magic, yet are immune to poison, can kill with one hit... I kill every monk I meet, I never use Rasaad and I hate them all. What are they even doing in supposedly medieval fantasy world?!
It comes from yourself, you just gotta believe.
So if I play a non-deity cleric, I worship the idea behind a deity. So basically I still worship them even though I refuse to call them by name.
So non-deitial clerics are simply splitters :I
He's like "Bro, you have been serving her the entire time, I am just giving you a name."
EDIT: Not saying you're wrong, just calling the rule stupid.
In the beginning, they have crap AC, crap damage, crap THAC0, crap skills, crap utility and the healing is self-only.
Also, from Player's Handbook 3.5E (Monks in BG2 were basically imported from 3E):
"Though a monk casts no spells, she has a magic of her own. She channels a subtle energy, called ki, which allows her to perform amazing feats.
Priests use divine energy, mages use arcane energy, monks use Ki energy.
Also, Forgotten Realms is not medieval.
Kara-Tur is both Feudal Japan and Ancient China, for example.
Mulhorand is basically Ancient Egypt. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mulhorand
And what Monks do in DnD, is whatever Gary Gygax wanted them to do, since 1E.
Or whatever Ed Greenwood wants them to do in Faerun.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Monastic_orders
Or whatever Wizards of the Coast wants them to do in almost every DnD edition.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Monk
I never undestood the argument that monks "don't fit in DnD".
They fit just as much as Druids or Barbarians or Bards or Psions.
DnD isn't a medieval simulator with magic.