Btw now that we have this funky sphere system, what say we have some fun with it? What if we used it to add spells periodically through the game? Something like:
- When discover truth of your heritage in BG1, if evil alignment, get minor access to sphere of Death, Destruction, or Affliction (your choice); if good alignment, to Life, Benediction, or Light.
- Just before end battle in BG1, get major access to one if those spheres
- After losing soul in BG2, losing access to high-level spells in the sphere of Life.
- Etc...?
Sounds very, very cool, but won't it be a bit "unfair" towards none- Divine casters?
@subtledoctor That's some nice idea !
This could indeed be in place of Bhaal powers but those are not quite OP so well... (and if PC can also lose access to some spells on the run that's already something similar).
Would have to discuss the spheres though, I know it was an example but looking at it I can say :
- Death or Affliction spheres for evil PC can be useful since they are not typical for all evil deities
- On the other hand Life/Benediction (Light perhaps less so but not quite sure) are nearly always major/minor spheres for good deities so less useful
I'd rather have something like : PC can choose a sphere of his choice (after all you are a godspawn, and already a follower of another deity so you can focus on what you want).
As for the drawbacks, EG when loosing your soul, I can think of loosing high level spells for spheres such as Benediction (that typically bestow divine power), or perhaps a malus to spellcaster level , exhausted status for x round(s), a temporary constitution malus, or even an HP cost when casting specific spells/sphere.
I don't know what is doable or not, just throwings ideas ^^
I think that offering players choices might be a good road to take there, so you get a combination of role playing with mechanical consequences. For example when your soul is stripped from you a dialogue could ask how your character responds, do they try to cling on to memories of love or of hate, do they curse the deity that has forsaken them or call on them for aid? When they change into the Slayer how does the character feel about these things? These responses could modify the available spheres a little.
As an aside deities are usually represented as distinct entities from their worshippers, but I rather prefer systems / representations that assign you a deity based on your actions and beliefs. In BG of course it's possible to choose a paladin/ preist of Lathander and then be rather unpleasant when it would be preferable that a deity be retroactively assigned to characters based on their conduct. Another kind of thematic approach is used in some p&p systems like Runequest, in which geases can be applied to characters that will give them bonuses for the duration of time that they abstain from particular actions (e.g. killing animals, using metal weapons, or wearing a helmet), but these are probably hard to code & easily exploitable by players!
I would use this HS in the shield or weapon slot. And bear in mind that you'll need one HS for each kit - including MC variants (don't let it scale).
I thought about using this as PnP rules requires the HS for turn undead (as well as casting spells IIRC), but by the time I realized this DoF's HS system was already built so I've decided to let it go.
Basically every kit would receive a spell triggered through 232 that would block spellcasting and TU and the HS would have a 321/206 effect against that spell with timing 2. But I also thought that losing a weapon or shield slot would cripple the cleric too much and enforce a micromanaging that would make things boring as hell.
I'm curious to see how and if you'll put it in motion.
When checking the google doc spell sphere page I see 2 columns showing us the minor & major spell spheres.
What's the benefit of having focus access when there's only minor and major spells. I'm missing something aren't I?
Sorry to bring back a dead post, but there seems to be a bug with some spelling and mostly that priests anf any multi class with them cant use chain mail armor as the class states.
is it intended that fighter/cleric multis can only wear up to leather armor? Only the Doomguide of Kelemvor doesn't follow this rule he can equip plate armor properly.
I'm already reported about this error here: ( https://github.com/UnearthedArcana/Faiths_and_Powers/issues/144 ), but personally as workaround i'm just remove additional restriction mask for plates... which fit my party without rule violations. And even if it break rules - i'm anyway doesn't accept this kind restrictions, except few special items.
@subtledoctor The version you gave me earlier is doing this for every class that has spell memorization on creation.
Could spell revision be doing this? It worked fine in the other build though so i'm not sure.
I think we could start with a basic method, and go from there. It would probably involve a nerf - especially at high levels, vanilla TU is kind of stupid. Something like, each round nearby undead must save or be frozen in place. Some kits, at higher levels, could control them instead. Other kits could have other effects: Some could do fire/radiant damage each round (Lathander), others could induce the vanilla "run away" fear effect. Then you could get creative: priests of Baervan and nature deities could Entangle them. Maybe some kits could cause confusion.
Maybe some modal abilities could be unrelated to undead entirely. Priests of Tempus could reduce morale in opponents. Some priests could maybe have modal buffs for allies instead - if we can find effects that don't step on the toes of bard songs.
Hey guys, I've been watching this mod for a while now, love what you're doing in terms of gameplay, creativity and technical.
This post @subtledoctor got me thinking; could you use the existing sphere system as a basis for the HS? You've already assigned focused/major sphere access that is thematically appropriate for the kits (from your post above; Lathander has Fire, Baervan has Plant, Tempus has War etc), can you also use those spheres to define the effects of the HS?
How this could practically work is to go through all the spheres and set a major and minor holy symbol effect. ie Fire major could be fire damage and party buff immunity to fire, fire minor could just be fire damage. Plant major could be entangle and enemy only stinking cloud?, minor could just be entangle etc. These are probably terribly balanced, I'm just trying to illustrate the point.
Once you've done that, you could go through the kits and assign a thematically appropriate major and minor HS effect. Maybe even give two minor HS effects? These combined major and minor effects would make the HS effects, giving large variety of HS effects that's easy-ish to balance without burning out creatively. It also could make it easy for other people to create kits for this system as they might just need to set a few flags for their HS powers.
Yup - that was it. Easy fix. @greentoilet you can grab 0.77 beta 3 from my fork, amnd it should be fixed.
@Grammarsalad if you haven't edited the "item_use.tpa," "sequencer_menu.tpa," or "add_druid_kits.tpa" files in /lib, you can just grab those files whole and drop them into your work-in-progress version. Or you can check out the changes in github - the differences are very small.
I thought that I did, but just in case, I'll update them again.
Edit: I did, but I never updated the main branch...DOne...Still need to make sure everything installs and it plays okay. I incorporated a few spell updates.
I think we could start with a basic method, and go from there. It would probably involve a nerf - especially at high levels, vanilla TU is kind of stupid. Something like, each round nearby undead must save or be frozen in place. Some kits, at higher levels, could control them instead. Other kits could have other effects: Some could do fire/radiant damage each round (Lathander), others could induce the vanilla "run away" fear effect. Then you could get creative: priests of Baervan and nature deities could Entangle them. Maybe some kits could cause confusion.
Maybe some modal abilities could be unrelated to undead entirely. Priests of Tempus could reduce morale in opponents. Some priests could maybe have modal buffs for allies instead - if we can find effects that don't step on the toes of bard songs.
Hey guys, I've been watching this mod for a while now, love what you're doing in terms of gameplay, creativity and technical.
This post @subtledoctor got me thinking; could you use the existing sphere system as a basis for the HS? You've already assigned focused/major sphere access that is thematically appropriate for the kits (from your post above; Lathander has Fire, Baervan has Plant, Tempus has War etc), can you also use those spheres to define the effects of the HS?
How this could practically work is to go through all the spheres and set a major and minor holy symbol effect. ie Fire major could be fire damage and party buff immunity to fire, fire minor could just be fire damage. Plant major could be entangle and enemy only stinking cloud?, minor could just be entangle etc. These are probably terribly balanced, I'm just trying to illustrate the point.
Once you've done that, you could go through the kits and assign a thematically appropriate major and minor HS effect. Maybe even give two minor HS effects? These combined major and minor effects would make the HS effects, giving large variety of HS effects that's easy-ish to balance without burning out creatively. It also could make it easy for other people to create kits for this system as they might just need to set a few flags for their HS powers.
Yeah, I've been thinking about doing something like this for a while. It's just a matter of coming up with enough creative, interesting, and implementable ideas...
On a clean game the latest releases both by Grammarsalad and Subtledoctor work perfect for me.
Afterwards I created a clean game on which I installed "spell rev v4 beta 16" followed by both your releases of "Faiths and powers" this however breaks the level 2 spell memorization you have to do on character creation. The list is empty and you can't continue anymore.
The level 2 spell I have to memorize as an Alaghor of Clangeddin is "Resist Fire and Cold".
The Spell revision readme also claims it's a level 2 spell albeit with some slight tuning to it.
Why won't it work together then? I do not understand.
Ingame the cleric/mage of Shar has no shadow spells in the spell book at all.
It doesn't seem caused by SR because right after I made a cleric/thief of mask (major access shadow) and every single spell was there.
Somehow the cleric/mage of shar having focus access to shadow made every shadow spell disappear rather than shifting it 1 tier down. Whether this behavior is limited to this kit or every kit with focus access I don't know.
I wasn't going to play this was merely checking shadow spell changes of SR when I happened to stumble on it.
Still, thought i'd mention it.
On a clean game the latest releases both by Grammarsalad and Subtledoctor work perfect for me.
Afterwards I created a clean game on which I installed "spell rev v4 beta 16" followed by both your releases of "Faiths and powers" this however breaks the level 2 spell memorization you have to do on character creation. The list is empty and you can't continue anymore.
The level 2 spell I have to memorize as an Alaghor of Clangeddin is "Resist Fire and Cold".
The Spell revision readme also claims it's a level 2 spell albeit with some slight tuning to it.
Why won't it work together then? I do not understand.
Because something is changing the IDS name of SPPR210 from "CLERIC_RESIST_FIRE_AND_COLD" to "CLERIC_RESIST_ELEMENTS." Presumably SR - I didn't think SR messed with IDS names, but perhaps recent builds are moving in that direction?
In any event, once I figured that out, the solution is very simple, just adding a single line to /lib/spell_list_sr.tpa. Get the fixed version here.
Also: just want to be clear about the various different versions of the mod that are available. The mod is actively being developed and I realize it can be a bit confusing.
Since then we have made some structural and under-the-hood changes, and added features and content. But the new stuff is not quite ready for primetime.
- So, the Master branch of the mod is currently, nominally, at version 0.77.02. But note, this is not an actual release and has not necessarily been tested for actual playing. (I think, anyway.)
I want to be able to play with the newest changes. So I forked the mod and I am making releases in my own account that incorporate the structural changes of the 0.76 and 0.77 series, actually tested to install and play successfully. (Basically, I just disable any new features that aren't working yet.)
If I'm not terrible at this, then 0.77sd4 should be the best version to use. I haven't done a full playthrough with it so it's not fully tested; so there may be soem bugs I haven't yet identified. (If you want to actually playtest, I'll try to keep being responsive with fixes and hotfixes and it will help get the mod ship-shape.)
If you want the version that has been most extensively tested and vetted, then you should use 0.75.21.1. Just keep in mind, there is a nonzero amount of bugs that we've fixed since then. I think.
When @Grammarsalad finishes up the new content and incorporates the fixes from my "sd" series, and everything seems to be in good shape, then we'll make an official 0.77 release and that will be the new gold standard. And then we'll probably start this process over again with 0.78+
Yeah, definitely use SD's fork. I'll change the link in the op to reflect this...
Comments
Sounds very, very cool, but won't it be a bit "unfair" towards none- Divine casters?
This could indeed be in place of Bhaal powers but those are not quite OP so well... (and if PC can also lose access to some spells on the run that's already something similar).
Would have to discuss the spheres though, I know it was an example but looking at it I can say :
- Death or Affliction spheres for evil PC can be useful since they are not typical for all evil deities
- On the other hand Life/Benediction (Light perhaps less so but not quite sure) are nearly always major/minor spheres for good deities so less useful
I'd rather have something like : PC can choose a sphere of his choice (after all you are a godspawn, and already a follower of another deity so you can focus on what you want).
As for the drawbacks, EG when loosing your soul, I can think of loosing high level spells for spheres such as Benediction (that typically bestow divine power), or perhaps a malus to spellcaster level , exhausted status for x round(s), a temporary constitution malus, or even an HP cost when casting specific spells/sphere.
I don't know what is doable or not, just throwings ideas ^^
As an aside deities are usually represented as distinct entities from their worshippers, but I rather prefer systems / representations that assign you a deity based on your actions and beliefs. In BG of course it's possible to choose a paladin/ preist of Lathander and then be rather unpleasant when it would be preferable that a deity be retroactively assigned to characters based on their conduct. Another kind of thematic approach is used in some p&p systems like Runequest, in which geases can be applied to characters that will give them bonuses for the duration of time that they abstain from particular actions (e.g. killing animals, using metal weapons, or wearing a helmet), but these are probably hard to code & easily exploitable by players!
This is a nice solution, I think...
non=priests get the bhaal powers, priests, get something else like additional sphere access....
I thought about using this as PnP rules requires the HS for turn undead (as well as casting spells IIRC), but by the time I realized this DoF's HS system was already built so I've decided to let it go.
Basically every kit would receive a spell triggered through 232 that would block spellcasting and TU and the HS would have a 321/206 effect against that spell with timing 2. But I also thought that losing a weapon or shield slot would cripple the cleric too much and enforce a micromanaging that would make things boring as hell.
I'm curious to see how and if you'll put it in motion.
What's the benefit of having focus access when there's only minor and major spells. I'm missing something aren't I?
I'm already reported about this error here: ( https://github.com/UnearthedArcana/Faiths_and_Powers/issues/144 ), but personally as workaround i'm just remove additional restriction mask for plates... which fit my party without rule violations. And even if it break rules - i'm anyway doesn't accept this kind restrictions, except few special items.
@subtledoctor The version you gave me earlier is doing this for every class that has spell memorization on creation.
Could spell revision be doing this? It worked fine in the other build though so i'm not sure.
Hey guys, I've been watching this mod for a while now, love what you're doing in terms of gameplay, creativity and technical.
This post @subtledoctor got me thinking; could you use the existing sphere system as a basis for the HS? You've already assigned focused/major sphere access that is thematically appropriate for the kits (from your post above; Lathander has Fire, Baervan has Plant, Tempus has War etc), can you also use those spheres to define the effects of the HS?
How this could practically work is to go through all the spheres and set a major and minor holy symbol effect. ie Fire major could be fire damage and party buff immunity to fire, fire minor could just be fire damage. Plant major could be entangle and enemy only stinking cloud?, minor could just be entangle etc. These are probably terribly balanced, I'm just trying to illustrate the point.
Once you've done that, you could go through the kits and assign a thematically appropriate major and minor HS effect. Maybe even give two minor HS effects? These combined major and minor effects would make the HS effects, giving large variety of HS effects that's easy-ish to balance without burning out creatively. It also could make it easy for other people to create kits for this system as they might just need to set a few flags for their HS powers.
I thought that I did, but just in case, I'll update them again.
Edit: I did, but I never updated the main branch...DOne...Still need to make sure everything installs and it plays okay. I incorporated a few spell updates.
Yeah, I've been thinking about doing something like this for a while. It's just a matter of coming up with enough creative, interesting, and implementable ideas...
Afterwards I created a clean game on which I installed "spell rev v4 beta 16" followed by both your releases of "Faiths and powers" this however breaks the level 2 spell memorization you have to do on character creation. The list is empty and you can't continue anymore.
The level 2 spell I have to memorize as an Alaghor of Clangeddin is "Resist Fire and Cold".
The Spell revision readme also claims it's a level 2 spell albeit with some slight tuning to it.
Why won't it work together then? I do not understand.
(0.77sd4)
Ingame the cleric/mage of Shar has no shadow spells in the spell book at all.
It doesn't seem caused by SR because right after I made a cleric/thief of mask (major access shadow) and every single spell was there.
Somehow the cleric/mage of shar having focus access to shadow made every shadow spell disappear rather than shifting it 1 tier down. Whether this behavior is limited to this kit or every kit with focus access I don't know.
I wasn't going to play this was merely checking shadow spell changes of SR when I happened to stumble on it.
Still, thought i'd mention it.
Yeah, definitely use SD's fork. I'll change the link in the op to reflect this...