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The Bhaalspawn's True/Canon Fate

KorbuKorbu Member Posts: 61
So, how many people here know the canon fate of the protagonist Bhaalspawn?

In the Forgotten Realms novels, the protagonist Bhaalspawn, Abdel Adrian ends up turning down the Throne of Bhaal, and walking away from it while retaining his Bhaalspawn essence.

WotC have released a tabletop P&P campaign called "Murder in Baldur's Gate", in which Duke Abdel Adrian is slain by his half-brother Viekang (the teleporting Bhaalspawn in Trademeet and Saradush), which transforms Viekang into the Slayer. When the players of the campaign kill Slayer-Viekang, Bhaal is resurrected.
So basically, all the protagonist Bhaalspawn's actions in Baldurs Gate 1, 2 and ToB, were for nothing. Bhaal still got what he wanted, his children were nothing more than the fuel for his resurrection after all.

I think these events, are going to make it very hard for Beamdog to get permission to make a BG 3, unfortunately.
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Comments

  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    As long as Viconia remains mine, I could care less what happens to the bhaalspawn, Dragonborn 4 lyfe!
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    There are no Bhaalspawn. It was Ghaunadaur who spread his slimey touch amongst the mortal races and Gorion's Ward is but one of them. That's common knowledge and the true canon story behind the Baldur's Gate saga.

    My playthrough made it so.
  • DragonKingDragonKing Member Posts: 1,979
    As far as I'm concerned, Canon is whatever the controller of the IP says IS canon; despite whether or not I like or even agree with it. Its their IP do do with as they please.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100

    As far as I'm concerned, Canon is whatever the controller of the IP says IS canon; despite whether or not I like or even agree with it. Its their IP do do with as they please.

    Sadly, this.


  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The problem with the game being canon is that the game has multiple possibilities. The problem with the novels being canon is that they suck and nobody likes them. Honestly, ambiguity is better.

    Still, I think it would be ideal if we had a consensus of some sort, or a new novel to overwrite the old ones. Nobody's going to cry foul and accuse the new author of erasing a good story, not in this case.

    The books were infamous for having an evil, unlikable protagonist. And for having rape turn Imoen gay. I don't want that canonical. I want a canon that's at least half as good as the game.
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100

    The problem with the game being canon is that the game has multiple possibilities. The problem with the novels being canon is that they suck and nobody likes them. Honestly, ambiguity is better.

    Still, I think it would be ideal if we had a consensus of some sort, or a new novel to overwrite the old ones. Nobody's going to cry foul and accuse the new author of erasing a good story, not in this case.

    The books were infamous for having an evil, unlikable protagonist. And for having rape turn Imoen gay. I don't want that canonical. I want a canon that's at least half as good as the game.

    To be quite honest, after the BG novels...I lost all respect for FR. Any company which could publish such drivel just doesn't care.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    There's nothing to say that your DM can't modify things to account for your bhaalspawn instead of the canon though.

    Yay home rules!
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,100
    We should petition FR to have a better author write a better BG book. It can't be any worse, right?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I'd do it. I've already got most of the plot details hashed out for an idealistic Neutral Good Cleric of Ilmater->Diviner Charname, though ToB is mostly in the dark. Imoen, Xzar, Monty, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir, Yoshimo, Mazzy, Valygar, Sarevok, and possibly Keldorn are among the party members over the course of the saga. Problem is, I've never submitted any of my books for publication (writing is easy, but publishing requires more initiative and isn't as fun), and they're more likely to want a published author.
  • KorbuKorbu Member Posts: 61
    edited September 2015
    Yeah, i agree, the BG novels sucked. The Baldur's Gate game is what first got me into reading the Forgotten Realms novels, and i've since read between 150-200 FR novels. Phil Athans did such a shitty job writing the first Baldur's Gate novel, that i didn't even bother to read the other BG novels.

    Unfortunately, the BG novels by Phil Athans are canon according to WotC. Then WotC uses the protagonist Bhaalspawn as a way to explain how Bhaal is resurrected during the Sundering event (which i hate).
  • DaevelonDaevelon Member Posts: 605
    I would love any BG novel that will make the protagonist kill Saemon Havarian. Better with a bit of torture too
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    IMHO, canon is only really needed if/when the story progresses. If there is never any new BG3, then there's no need for a canon story (for me). If I was playing PnP and wanted to make the setting occur after the events of ToB, I would most likely base it on one of my own playthroughs, thus making that characters decision canon.

    The "need" for canon is what made the SW universe so weird and illogical at times. I applaud the new approach of just ditching everything and starting anew. I know SW has nothing to do with BG/FR, but my point being in that no matter what canon story the owners of the franchise set, it can be changed in the future if needed. I haven't read the novels (ever heard of'em before visiting this forum and don't really wanna read them either after what you guys have said about them) but I guess if a new writer, be it @semiticgod or another one, write a new story of the bhaal spawn it can replace the Abdel one as being canon if just enough ppl actually use it.
  • DurenasDurenas Member Posts: 508
    Well, at least Abdel died eventually. That's something. I'll even take having Bhaal back if it means we rid the world of his idiocy.
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    Eh, Abdel is canon. We can mumble all we like about 'my canon' and 'my feelings', but it won't change the fact that in Forgotten Realms, a character named Abdel Adrian rejected Godhood and became a Duke of Baldur's Gate.

    We don't have to like it, but that's a fact.

    And frankly, I don't mind. There was no way for everyone's Bhaalspawn to be canon. In a way, such an unpopular Bhaalspawn being canon is the perfect solution. Basically nobody really wants Abdel to be canon, and so we mostly ignore Abdel to focus on our own stories.

    If Abdel had been well-written and consistent to the plot of the games, there'd probably be more people arguing about that Bhaalspawn than there are now. But Abdel wasn't very well written isn't and that's liberating in a respect.

    We know there's a canon, but 90% of us don't really like it, and we're aware of that, so we can focus on our games.
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  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    We could separate ourselves from the idea of canon? ;)

    Fact is, the legal owner of a story can determine its current state. How important is thatreally to us? Certainly, it is not unimportant when an author like Rowling, Martin, or Tolkien makes a statement that influences the meaning of something she or he has written earlier - But that's not even the case here: Baldur's Gate (and Dungeons and Dragons and the Forgotten Realms) are a *franchise* that is developed by a multitude of people (and a bunch of businessmen who possibly care only for the numbers). If they suddenly fired R.A. Salvatore, then *his* influence on what's canon in the Realms would wither at the same moment.

    I maintain that a reader (or consumer) must not care about any canon at all. One ought to regard a fantasy world as a toolbox from which one can take all the interesting bits and ignore what one doesn't enjoy. Compare the Homeric and the Arthurian "campaign setting". There certainly are core motifs that appear in the works of different authors. Hercules or Sir Gawain, for instance, do have a distinctive character to them, but no author needs to slavishly bow to every detail that had been written earlier.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    This sandwich might be moldy, but I can always choose not to eat it.

    Sure wish I had a good sandwich, though.
  • CalmarCalmar Member Posts: 688
    The mold is as figurative as the sandwich. One can eschew either.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The book is not figurative. And eschewing the mold leaves you without a sandwich. The root problem is the same.
  • NimranNimran Member Posts: 4,875
    If I had mold on my sandwich, I would raise it as a pet. I'd call it Moldy.
  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    Somewhere along the line, this metaphor went way off-track.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Such Sandwich
    Much Moldy
    Wow

    Anyway the BG books are so shitty I cannot consider them canon.
    As for BG3, well, I would really like it to be with an ascended Charname battling real powers in the planes to gain even more influence if evil, or to wipe the Evil out of the Realm. And (s)he would have to manage a cult as well.
    Given the level of power you reach when you end ToB, there is nothing that would match your skills, even as a mortal. Like, Elminster himself says he would not take you on. Basically you only have the Tarrasque that could put up a fight
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300

    As far as I'm concerned, Canon is whatever the controller of the IP says IS canon; despite whether or not I like or even agree with it. Its their IP do do with as they please.

    But the first few pages of every RPG book say "Remember, these are just suggestions, it's your game so feel free to change whatever you want " . It's a pretty good principle !
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    shawne said:

    I always thought the best way to handle a situation like this - where the game encourages personal canon while the literature demands a singular sequence of events - would be to take the player character out of it altogether. If WotC had been a bit more imaginative, they could've just made Imoen the protagonist of the BG1 novel and then had Jaheira take the lead in SoA. That way you're not stepping on players' toes, and you're not risking any major discontinuities because it still leads to the canonical "good" ending.

    That... Sounds amazing. Imoen as protag? Jaheira as protag? I'd read it.
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