Jaheira's Infidelity
johntyl
Member Posts: 400
I still cannot understand her choice to leave Khalid's body behind to rot in Irenicus's dungeon. I find her argument not to resurrect Khalid because his body has been desecrated unconvincing. OK, say she's right, but she can always get someone (like Misc) to take Khalid's body along so that we can properly bury him later or something. But no, after a few seconds of what seems like histrionic and pretend (at least to me) sorrowful prayer, she urged the party to leave quickly. Once we were out in town, there was hardly a mention to go back and get Khalid's body. No. All she did was to speak of the dead as though it was something that had happened to her in the distant past and her tone was one that was more nostalgic than depressed. The deciding factor was when she started acting like a single available woman two days after we escaped from Irenicus. Not that my main CHAR is complaining as right now he is juggling between romancing Aerie and Jaheira.
TL:DR: Jaheira doesn't give a shit about Khalid. Main CHAR is way much cooler. Khalid can never compete with a Bhaalspawn. Everyone wins when Khalid is dead
TL:DR: Jaheira doesn't give a shit about Khalid. Main CHAR is way much cooler. Khalid can never compete with a Bhaalspawn. Everyone wins when Khalid is dead
8
Comments
Keep in mind, you only just get out of the dungeon before Irenicus collapses the entrance with a powerful spell, and after that it's buried under tons of rubble, making going back in impossible.
I won't argue with you that her grieving period seems rather brief, though the first "love talks" in her romance do not necessarily involve her flirting with you.
I love Jaheira. And yet I'm convinced that the ridiculously slow mourning period she's given is just because of her romance. And that itself is one of those ideas that should have been scrapped. A little production anecdote that die-hard fans would mention every now and then, like Imoen originally dying in Spellhold.
It's implied in BG1 that Jaheira was Gorion's adventuring colleague, making her at least a few decades your senior. The age difference, though, while worth mentioning because it's taboo and all, is not the real problem.
The introductory dialogue at the Friendly Arm firmly establishes them sort of as your godparents. Khalid even refers to you as "child", even though your character has already come of age, which to me subtly emphasizes their roles not as your equals, but as mentor figures. For Jaheira to consider you a potential romantic partner completely betrays that dynamic. Plus, given her personality, it feels bizarrely out of character. At best, her attraction to you could be seen as some sort of temporary insanity caused by the process of grieving Khalid.
But the game never seems to treat it like that, instead wanting you to believe that that's just her "moving on" and that you becoming more powerful and mature/sure of yourself somehow negates the vast difference in life experience you both have. It feels absolutely out of left field and contrived, like the producers wouldn't expect you to appreciate a character like Jaheira unless she can be The Girl that The Hero is rewarded at the end of your typical story.
And look, I know I may be suffering from confirmation bias, but for me, it reads like whoever was charged with writing her romance agreed that this was a bad idea. For one, the sexual tones are severely underplayed (at least compared to Viconia's and Aerie's romances), almost as if the goal was to make it feel less icky.
Though maybe that's just A-dawg, who's nailed more tail than his daddy. Honestly, there is basically no one he didn't shag, including Bodhi.
I suppose you could always chalk the Jaheira thing up to gameplay concerns. There just isn't really time to let her go through proper mourning, and things like a burial for Khalid would detract too much from the unfolding story this early on.
The suddenness of beginning a relationship with Jaheira is easily understandable when you take into account that your MainChar and her are both adventurers. You have been together for some time, living day to day, facing demons, wizards, undead and even rival demigods, spilling and shedding blood, with each moment nearly being your last (at least until you reload!) I think MainChar has also been the successful leader of the group, so of course she respects and admires him. I imagine people who live on such an edge would have only two age groups, the dead and the not dead yet, as you can see, Jaheira and MainChar are part of the same age group.
I imagine part of the problem a lot of people have with the Jaheira romance is a result of relative context. You cannot imagine people who live their lives on a razor's edge would react to situations like we would.
I think the initial convenience of Khalid's death and abandonment of his corpse results in many players viewing the whole romance in a critical manner, again I find this issue addressed pretty well in a MOD and comparatively speaking I've always had problems with the Aerie romance, she's too naive, too wounded and way too vulnerable for a relationship IMHO and romancing her always make me feel icky.
I believe it cheapens her character to suddenly turn Gorion's ward into a Khalid-replacement. It reeks of the outdated idea that even strong female characters need a man for validation. If you think I'm reading too much into this, just check her epilogues. She either never finds true happiness or ends up married to you.
So indeed it is quite a shock when she sees Khalid dead, but she has seen many of her friends dying, and my call is that Khalid was more than a friend but not so much more at that point. Besides, they certainly have other things to think about at this moment, and survival instinct takes over. And as was mentioned, it takes quite a few "love talks" before she stops speaking of Khalid.
....And Jaheria could use the Harpers call, but at great sacrifice of her self, she may need what she would give up to continue her duty of protecting the Main Character . Khalid died most likely thinking he was saving Jaheria, and possibly the Main Character from further torture or he died not giving wanted information about the Main character.
She may have wanted to honor his sacrifice and let his soul find peace instead of him having to live with the horrible memories of his last moments.
In relation to the issue of going and retrieving Khalid's body, even if Irenicus had not buried his lair in rubble, I don't think either Charname or Jaheira would ever want to go back there. They would have a massive amount of psychological trauma associated with that place, which would make a return potentially extremely harmful.
As for the lack of overtly romantic banters between Jaheira and Khalid in BG1, I think it's a mistake to interpret that as the absence of a loving romantic relationship. It makes perfect sense that Jaheira and Khalid would not have a very publicly demonstrative relationship, given their personalities and backgrounds. Jaheira is a very serious person who doesn't show softer feelings easily. Khalid is highly anxious and is thus unlikely to be comfortable engaging in PDA. He was also in the military in Calimshan before he joined the Harpers, which means he would have been conditioned to keep personal things to himself. All that makes for a rather private marital relationship.
".... Irenicus seemed to have a special interest in you... I have an interest as well
"As a Harper, I mean. I wouldn't want you to think...
"Um... Let's just get moving."
Sounds to me like she's getting all shy-shy-girl in front of main char.
I really don't feel Jaheira's that predatory widow everyone makes her out to be. You're not a child, and she's not exactly your mother. Her "romance" dialogues feel more like friendship talks. I agree that her mourning period for Khalid is rather short, but I view that as more of a limitation of the game than anything else.
Everyone goes on and on about how Aerie talks about losing her wings throughout her romance, and how her constant "whining" annoys them.
But apparently Jaheira doesn't "whine" enough about Khalid's death--despite dealing with PTSD, night terrors, and losing her shit whenever anyone (including you!) says a bad word against him.
Go figure.
1. "Don't snap at me, mister. I thought simply you might have a plan of sorts. Obviously, I was mistaken."
2. "I would suggest you get moving and decide on a plan. And never again say something like "don't rightly know." You sound like you were dropped as a child."
3. "It doesn't? I hope you'll come up with something better than that. I will not be put in a position where survival depends on the toss of a coin."
She is not flirting with you. She is pissed.
I blame the maudlin soundtrack for having made me think otherwise
But then again, we all know how seriously BG takes the official timelines
I'm also unsure what kind of perfect storybook romance is available for your MainChar as they are such a proficient killer, kinslayer and demigod of murder.
I also always appreciated her dialogues about belonging to the dead (Beholden to grief) or belonging to life and the living(Romance option).
I have little problems with the romance, however I do find myself having problems with the constant romance trope between men and women. I hate watching a TV show or movie and if there is two strong characters of the opposite sex who work together, are partners etc, then they must develop a romantic involvement. I like the idea of strong characters who admire each other, rely on each other but remain platonic friends. I guess I'd like that option explored/developed more in the media. I guess Firefly is one of the few examples to have that relationship/dynamic be a part of their show.
My two cents...
Viconia's, all things said, is probably the LEAST objectionable of these. That said, I didn't find Aerie's *too* bad, as it's mostly just about being a loving and supportive partner who doesn't push her too fast, and who doesn't let her leap ahead too urgently.
With that said, I've not been able to complete any of the new romances yet, other than maybe Hexxats? But then maybe not? I don't really know. Hexxat's a cagey beast.
Anyhow, I always figured that Jaheira wasn't really Gorion's adventuring companion, simply a good friend from the Harpers. She's only level 1 when you pick her up, so she can't be that experienced.
As for the incongruities, there are game factors to consider. Jaheira always seemed to me to be a wiser, more experienced, more mature character than CHARNAME - who, after all, has been doing little but read books and play pranks with Imoen all his/her life. That they should be on the same experience level, or even below, does not in any way work with the RP behind it. It's just one of these mechanics things where you have to make a compromise. I see the whole Gorian companion thing as much the same.
If you were to correctly model every aspect of the story in terms of game mechanics, the game experience would suffer. However, it would perhaps be an interesting experiment to one day go and actually modify things to make more sense in that respect. Just to see what would happen when Jaheira and Khalid are actually lvl 7 or whatever when you meet them :P
BG1 actually had less ridiculous writing overall imo
Also, it doesn't take a long time for a person to prove themselve as someone else's equal. One doesn't stay trapped in the role of mentor and student FOREVER.
I do think the mourning peroid is alittle short but I also agree with the above, its not like she instantly starts coming too you.