@JuliusBorisov Thanks for your hard work! I know this thread is a little old but I've been looking for a chart like this and think others can benefit from it as well. It's definitely sad when your bard approaches level five and the mage part of a FMT isn't even level two but the FMT holds his own in the swiss army knife category. Of course he's not going to melee as well as a pure fighter, but then again your pure fighter won't be backstabbing a difficult enemy and finishing him off with a chromatic orb or magic missile to the face either. I have an elven FMT almost in chapter 3 that is, by far, holding the highest number of kills, despite having Dorn and Kagain from the get go. I'll take this kind of slow but steady progression to the mid-level dual class masochistic ways any day.
Went throught the F/M/T hp pool manually because you have to be an Einstein to calculate it out, and added in this table. Also fixed couple HLA and Thac0 mistakes. So this should be final version. I'll make these out as I play these multi-classes.
Fighter/Mage/Thief
And here's another post where a FMT is compared to an Illusionist/Thief and a Fighter/Illusionist (see tables in the comment):
i've played f/m/t a million times, infact i should go make one right now, or at least after i finish this SoZ play through.....
but anyway, here is what i have experienced with them:
i always use them as archers, since only elf type characters can be them, to me it just makes sense to give an elf a bow with that killer DEX of 19, you can come out of candlekeep with 14 thac0, and 2.5 attacks per round which is solid as hell
next, i always use them as the "thief" of the group, in BG1 especially if you crank the DEX to 20, you can easily hit the 90 open locks, 100 find traps, and 80 pick pockets ( which is what i do first in bg1 ) so they fill out all my thief needs for bg1, giving me more opportunity to use a different set of chums for my front line
and with that said, as a "thief" i have great to hit/to damage/attacks per round, and just for the extra kick in the pants i even get some spell potential just for the lerz pretty solid for BG1
BG2 has taught me that it is easily viable to go through the entire game with a level 7 thief, so even though a triple class will have lower levels, its still going to more thief than imoen will ever have
and again early bg2 it's still great, level ups a pretty quick and still competing with everyone else like a boss
but then, there comes a certain point, where it gets VERY noticeable for the horrendously slow level progression, pretty much at the 750 000 XP mark ( so each class has 250 000 XP each ) the amounts of XP needed to gain levels is through the roof, in essence fighter levels require 750 000 XP per level, thief requires 660 000, and the mage, holy poop on a stick an absolute killer whopping XP amount of ONE MILLION ONE HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND, and that is just for one mage level up, want a tip? recall how slow a single class mage levels up in the normal game? now imagine if that was 3 times slower, and trust me, it is noticeable as hell
now, with that being said, again, since i use my triple class as a thief, it still works out pretty well, first all the important thief skills are at 100 ( open locks, pick pockets, disarm traps, set traps ) and luckily the first 11 thief levels dont take too long to achieve ( just 660 000 XP ) so you get 3 traps per day pretty quick, next for being a "thief" again, you get pretty great to hit/to damage/attacks per round with again a bow, and again, for the extra kick in the pants, mage spells on the side, the "proverbial gravy on top" so still quite viable
now it's ToB's turn, and something interesting start's happening, a FMT kind of becomes a bard in the aspect that a FMT is a jack of all trades, master of none, to the point that any of the 3 classes the FMT is composed of can just do everything to their associated class better as a single class, except for perhaps the thief part, realistically unless you are an assassin once your thief hits level 16ish, there really is no difference between a thief at level 16 versus 40 ( HLAs exempt) when it comes to doing what a thief does,
the advantage of a FMT to me is that you are basically making a thief that can have some great to hit/to damage/attacks per round with some spell support, but when it comes time ToB it's very noticeable on how far behind you can start feeling, although again, ToB has taught me that you can beat the game with a level 7 thief, so having a FMT is just a very fancy thief in my eyes
the thing to remember as well, is that even in ToB, if you have a six man team and don't do any whacky XP grinds or exploits, realistically you are only going to hit around 6-6.5 million XP ( for the average/casual player at least ) which means you are only hitting around 2 million XP per class, so while near the end of SoA your fighters were hitting their great thac0s, and mages were hitting their level 9 spells, the FMT falls way behind and will have mediocre thac0 comparitively and might not even hit level 8 mages ( with level 9 being impossible unless you have a level cap remover)
so in conclusion, a FMT is not a power house, because anything it can do, another class just does better, but again, if you need a range thief then they make great candidates, or if you want to play with something that has a bit more pizazz and like the idea that you can cover so many support roles with one character than a FMT is better, infact with that being said, i would say that a FMT is even better than a standard bard when it comes to being the "master" of the "jack of all trades" cliché
Another angle on the f/m/t I want to try out is the idea that the mage gives you invisibility, the fighter THAC0, and the thief can then backstab. Invisible scouting also lets you look for traps, unlike hiding in the shadows, so you really will not need those stealth skills for quite some time. This is an alternative to archery, as you probably will not get enough proficiencies in BG1 to take both approaches.
Having only tried FMT when I soloed the game way back when, I'd never really given the class a serious try. So far I'm almost to 2/2/3 in BG:EE and am very surprised to report that I went the archery route and easily have the lowest thaco in the gang and over 50% of the kills lol. Very fun so far.
F/M/T has an interesting xp curve. At the start of BG it takes forever to get going. However, as you have so many classes, once you start leveling, you will level more frequently than other classes which can be fun of itself. The sweet spot for this would be right at the start of BG2, up until you get around 750k xp, and, and I guess the whole of Siege of Dragonspear should be in that sweet spot too (I don't have the game on the Mac App Store yet to confirm). After level 9/10 though, xp for classes stops doubling per level, and repeatedly takes the same amount, so the rest of the party will start to zoom away from you again, and it is the long hard slog to the end of the game! By now the PC should have enough interesting ideas for ways to combine the classes to do interesting and unique things that it will pay off, but the long gap between levels can be painful at times!
Sounds like you have just reached the stage where the fun really starts
The sweet spot for this would be right at the start of BG2, up until you get around 750k xp, and, and I guess the whole of Siege of Dragonspear should be in that sweet spot too (I don't have the game on the Mac App Store yet to confirm).
I fully agree, but with one comment: in SoD you only level up once. You reach the critical level 7 fighter for the APR and another level in each class, but then you stop. Since SoD gives massive exp early from killing all those huge mobs of critters (especially on insane) you will level early and then remain there for the rest of SoD. It's a good level with loads of potential, level 4 spells, the aforementioned APR from level 7 fighter, enough thief points to be the party's only thief, but it's still becomes a bit stale never leveling. At least for me who enjoys focusing on CHARNAME and not bothering so much with the NPCs.
In BG2 the fun starts again for a while before, just as you say, you start to fall behind a lot and again get a very slow progression in the key areas for you, THAC0 and spells. You'll still be a better thief than most though, but for me... the character grows old fast and I prefer solo.
funny thing is, this thread is just a hair over 2 years old and if it wasnt for JuliusBorisov making a comment a few days ago, this thread would have been buried for eternity, since the comment before JuliusBorisov was from June of 2016
Well yeah, like who would ever call necromancy a bad thing, right? I think for now, triple classes can certainly use the attention drawn to them in threads like this, since theyve always been underrated and easily dismissed by most. Also, even though they live and breath versatiltiy, whenever discussed, triple classes are often seen as one trick ponies with a complicated trick. Now I'm probably biased to the max, I've tried and found I really can't play anything but FMT, well shame on me, but I've also found FMT can be played successfully in many different ways. Hopefully, threads like this will lead to more players trying triple classes and sharing their experiences and providing more ideas for others, quite likely also spilling over into other classes in the end. To cut things short, I hope this thread will stay alive and be productive for all. And props to all contributors.
FMT signature trick is versatility, although it helps for SoA if you are loading them up with all the neatest gear to minimize their apparent falling behind, like THAC0 compared to a plain fighter. You get your HLAs at 3 million XP, just like every other class, and while most of the mage HLAs are useless (you will never get 9th level spell slots) they can quickly bridge the gap when high performance matters. That versatility may make them one of the easier classes to start soloing, as they will be strong through the whole series, and th slow leveling is greatly mitigated by the XP rush.
The sweet spot for this would be right at the start of BG2, up until you get around 750k xp, and, and I guess the whole of Siege of Dragonspear should be in that sweet spot too (I don't have the game on the Mac App Store yet to confirm).
I fully agree, but with one comment: in SoD you only level up once.
Whut? SoD's Exp cap is in such a bad place F/M/Ts actually end up levelling more than anyone else:
F/M/T ends BG1 with 161k at 6/6/7. F/M/T ends SoD with 500k at 8/9/10.
That's 8 levels gained, 1/2 APR, 75 skill points, and level 4 and 5 spells.
The sweet spot for this would be right at the start of BG2, up until you get around 750k xp, and, and I guess the whole of Siege of Dragonspear should be in that sweet spot too (I don't have the game on the Mac App Store yet to confirm).
I fully agree, but with one comment: in SoD you only level up once.
Whut? SoD's Exp cap is in such a bad place F/M/Ts actually end up levelling more than anyone else:
F/M/T ends BG1 with 161k at 6/6/7. F/M/T ends SoD with 500k at 8/9/10.
That's 8 levels gained, 1/2 APR, 75 skill points, and level 4 and 5 spells.
Mage/Thief is still better, of course.
In that case I must have been drunk when I played. FYI I don't consider every level per class a level-up, so when stating "once" I meant one each per class-ish.
I only played BG more than a decade ago so in many ways this was like my 1st run through since I forgot most everything. I just hit 6/6/7 with my 90 ability F/M/T before even entering Baldurs Gate... he is a PvE powerhouse in this game (is it really possible to roll 96 on them? I have never seen over 90). The versatility is simply too good. I just trekked around with Imoen to fill in a few thief skills and the guy could take down anything (with a little Imoen support). I just massacred the demon in Durlag tower with these two alone. He had no chance. Quaffed a str potion, Laid down 4 snare traps, cast one skull trap, stealth backstab for about 40 damage (with my newly ID'ed staff of striking), then quaffed a invis potion to make him move toward Imoen who was up the stairs and led him to all the traps. He died so fast I couldnt even click position for a 2nd backstab.
Fighter Side: Longbow + Quarterstaff/2-Hand Prof Thief Side: Traps + Detect Illusions (Imoen covered find traps and open locks) Mage Side: ID, Invis, Skull Trap (basically stuff for when out of combat)
Weapons
Quarterstaff +1 (dont like the staff spear and staff of striking is only for bosses and backstabs)
The Dead Shot Longbow
Armor
Practical Defense +3 (remove to cast spells, then put it back on)
Legacy of Masters gloves (+1 thaco, +2 damage)
When thinking about it, I cant imagine any other class that can do what this guy can do. ID items which actually made a difference immediately during my play. Unbelievable opening spike damage that rivals the best mages thanks to 3 powerful traps (thief + mage) plus a backstab at better thaco than a thief. Cant be fooled by illusions. Better AOE than fighters & better survival skills than fighters (mage spells). Better defense and sustained damage than mages especially in places where you cant rest.
On top of all that, he can match fighter AC. In retrospect I should have done a 1 hand weapon with shields since damage output has not been a problem but getting hit is somewhat troublesome given his low hit points. I would probably go with long swords or clubs since crushing damage seems to own everything in this game. But I found 3 great longswords so that might bridge the gap with crushing damage. His AC is currently -4 but with the shields I have found I could have brought that down to -7.
The only real issues I have had with him is hit points. He has very few. In fact, Imoen has more hit points than he does even with the familiar in by backpack. He almost ate dirt in the tower when he got double backstabbed. This is one reason for wanting the extra AC instead of the damage from quarterstaff's. Also the lack of a cleric in the party has been annoying but now with the alignment change helmet and since i already hit the XP cap, im thinking of bringing Viconia along for the ride as a goodie lol.
@marc5477 Its theoretically possible to roll up to 108. Though a roll that high has never been recorded (its odds are similar to winning a lottery). The highest I have ever gotten was 103.
@marc5477 Its theoretically possible to roll up to 108. Though a roll that high has never been recorded (its odds are similar to winning a lottery). The highest I have ever gotten was 103.
@marc5477 Its theoretically possible to roll up to 108. Though a roll that high has never been recorded (its odds are similar to winning a lottery). The highest I have ever gotten was 103.
wowzers, i must have litterally pressed the reroll button millions of times, and not once have i seen a roll that high, in fact the highest roll i have ever got was a 99 and that was a month ago or so, before that in that, my next highest roll was 97 in that was in bg1 vanilla
@marc5477 Its theoretically possible to roll up to 108. Though a roll that high has never been recorded (its odds are similar to winning a lottery). The highest I have ever gotten was 103.
Thats nuts. The only time I have seen over 90 is when I tried to roll a paladin but it was fairly common for him since he has more min requirements. But I was stoked when I saw a 90 on FMT.
I suspect the Twitter poster knows of a certain shortcut key that can be enabled during character generation
But even these stats are low if you are ready to keep re-importing characters that have beaten the game, without even resorting to character file editors.
On top of all that, he can match fighter AC. In retrospect I should have done a 1 hand weapon with shields since damage output has not been a problem but getting hit is somewhat troublesome given his low hit points. I would probably go with long swords or clubs since crushing damage seems to own everything in this game. But I found 3 great longswords so that might bridge the gap with crushing damage. His AC is currently -4 but with the shields I have found I could have brought that down to -7.
Quarterstaffs are one of the best proficiences since you can use a staffmace +2 onehanded. It has bastard sword base damage (2D4), crushing damage, the reach of a twohander, is usable by rogues and can therefore be used for backstabbing while wearing a shield or dual-weilded together with one more staffmace or another weapon of choice. Playing a backstabber in BG1, qstaff is by far the best category IMHO since you have so much to choose from, easily accessable +3 qstaff in Ulgoth's beard (you buy it, why do you still have your +1? ) + staff of striking when needed (not really needed ever, but still fun) + staffmace(s) for regular critters or for when you either want to dualweild or need to wear a shield for added AC.
The staffmace is available in BG2 as well, so it's not just something you can do in BG1.
@marc5477 Its theoretically possible to roll up to 108. Though a roll that high has never been recorded (its odds are similar to winning a lottery). The highest I have ever gotten was 103.
On top of all that, he can match fighter AC. In retrospect I should have done a 1 hand weapon with shields since damage output has not been a problem but getting hit is somewhat troublesome given his low hit points. I would probably go with long swords or clubs since crushing damage seems to own everything in this game. But I found 3 great longswords so that might bridge the gap with crushing damage. His AC is currently -4 but with the shields I have found I could have brought that down to -7.
Quarterstaffs are one of the best proficiences since you can use a staffmace +2 onehanded. It has bastard sword base damage (2D4), crushing damage, the reach of a twohander, is usable by rogues and can therefore be used for backstabbing while wearing a shield or dual-weilded together with one more staffmace or another weapon of choice. Playing a backstabber in BG1, qstaff is by far the best category IMHO since you have so much to choose from, easily accessable +3 qstaff in Ulgoth's beard (you buy it, why do you still have your +1? ) + staff of striking when needed (not really needed ever, but still fun) + staffmace(s) for regular critters or for when you either want to dualweild or need to wear a shield for added AC.
The staffmace is available in BG2 as well, so it's not just something you can do in BG1.
don't forget the staff spear, which also does some solid damage ( 1d8+3 ) with a +2 thac0 bonus which can be found here:
the succubus on the top floor of durlag's tower has it, so either pick pocket it from her, or kill her for it
Comments
Thanks for your hard work! I know this thread is a little old but I've been looking for a chart like this and think others can benefit from it as well.
It's definitely sad when your bard approaches level five and the mage part of a FMT isn't even level two but the FMT holds his own in the swiss army knife category. Of course he's not going to melee as well as a pure fighter, but then again your pure fighter won't be backstabbing a difficult enemy and finishing him off with a chromatic orb or magic missile to the face either. I have an elven FMT almost in chapter 3 that is, by far, holding the highest number of kills, despite having Dorn and Kagain from the get go.
I'll take this kind of slow but steady progression to the mid-level dual class masochistic ways any day.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/931977/#Comment_931977
but anyway, here is what i have experienced with them:
i always use them as archers, since only elf type characters can be them, to me it just makes sense to give an elf a bow with that killer DEX of 19, you can come out of candlekeep with 14 thac0, and 2.5 attacks per round which is solid as hell
next, i always use them as the "thief" of the group, in BG1 especially if you crank the DEX to 20, you can easily hit the 90 open locks, 100 find traps, and 80 pick pockets ( which is what i do first in bg1 ) so they fill out all my thief needs for bg1, giving me more opportunity to use a different set of chums for my front line
and with that said, as a "thief" i have great to hit/to damage/attacks per round, and just for the extra kick in the pants i even get some spell potential just for the lerz pretty solid for BG1
BG2 has taught me that it is easily viable to go through the entire game with a level 7 thief, so even though a triple class will have lower levels, its still going to more thief than imoen will ever have
and again early bg2 it's still great, level ups a pretty quick and still competing with everyone else like a boss
but then, there comes a certain point, where it gets VERY noticeable for the horrendously slow level progression, pretty much at the 750 000 XP mark ( so each class has 250 000 XP each ) the amounts of XP needed to gain levels is through the roof, in essence fighter levels require 750 000 XP per level, thief requires 660 000, and the mage, holy poop on a stick an absolute killer whopping XP amount of ONE MILLION ONE HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND, and that is just for one mage level up, want a tip? recall how slow a single class mage levels up in the normal game? now imagine if that was 3 times slower, and trust me, it is noticeable as hell
now, with that being said, again, since i use my triple class as a thief, it still works out pretty well, first all the important thief skills are at 100 ( open locks, pick pockets, disarm traps, set traps ) and luckily the first 11 thief levels dont take too long to achieve ( just 660 000 XP ) so you get 3 traps per day pretty quick, next for being a "thief" again, you get pretty great to hit/to damage/attacks per round with again a bow, and again, for the extra kick in the pants, mage spells on the side, the "proverbial gravy on top" so still quite viable
now it's ToB's turn, and something interesting start's happening, a FMT kind of becomes a bard in the aspect that a FMT is a jack of all trades, master of none, to the point that any of the 3 classes the FMT is composed of can just do everything to their associated class better as a single class, except for perhaps the thief part, realistically unless you are an assassin once your thief hits level 16ish, there really is no difference between a thief at level 16 versus 40 ( HLAs exempt) when it comes to doing what a thief does,
the advantage of a FMT to me is that you are basically making a thief that can have some great to hit/to damage/attacks per round with some spell support, but when it comes time ToB it's very noticeable on how far behind you can start feeling, although again, ToB has taught me that you can beat the game with a level 7 thief, so having a FMT is just a very fancy thief in my eyes
the thing to remember as well, is that even in ToB, if you have a six man team and don't do any whacky XP grinds or exploits, realistically you are only going to hit around 6-6.5 million XP ( for the average/casual player at least ) which means you are only hitting around 2 million XP per class, so while near the end of SoA your fighters were hitting their great thac0s, and mages were hitting their level 9 spells, the FMT falls way behind and will have mediocre thac0 comparitively and might not even hit level 8 mages ( with level 9 being impossible unless you have a level cap remover)
so in conclusion, a FMT is not a power house, because anything it can do, another class just does better, but again, if you need a range thief then they make great candidates, or if you want to play with something that has a bit more pizazz and like the idea that you can cover so many support roles with one character than a FMT is better, infact with that being said, i would say that a FMT is even better than a standard bard when it comes to being the "master" of the "jack of all trades" cliché
best part of the run so far: dying from the cut scene arrow with the battle of gorion vs sarevok, ah good times, good thing the game auto saved there
Sounds like you have just reached the stage where the fun really starts
In BG2 the fun starts again for a while before, just as you say, you start to fall behind a lot and again get a very slow progression in the key areas for you, THAC0 and spells. You'll still be a better thief than most though, but for me... the character grows old fast and I prefer solo.
I think for now, triple classes can certainly use the attention drawn to them in threads like this, since theyve always been underrated and easily dismissed by most. Also, even though they live and breath versatiltiy, whenever discussed, triple classes are often seen as one trick ponies with a complicated trick. Now I'm probably biased to the max, I've tried and found I really can't play anything but FMT, well shame on me, but I've also found FMT can be played successfully in many different ways. Hopefully, threads like this will lead to more players trying triple classes and sharing their experiences and providing more ideas for others, quite likely also spilling over into other classes in the end.
To cut things short, I hope this thread will stay alive and be productive for all.
And props to all contributors.
F/M/T ends BG1 with 161k at 6/6/7.
F/M/T ends SoD with 500k at 8/9/10.
That's 8 levels gained, 1/2 APR, 75 skill points, and level 4 and 5 spells.
Mage/Thief is still better, of course.
Fighter Side: Longbow + Quarterstaff/2-Hand Prof
Thief Side: Traps + Detect Illusions (Imoen covered find traps and open locks)
Mage Side: ID, Invis, Skull Trap (basically stuff for when out of combat)
Weapons
- Quarterstaff +1 (dont like the staff spear and staff of striking is only for bosses and backstabs)
- The Dead Shot Longbow
Armor- Practical Defense +3 (remove to cast spells, then put it back on)
- Legacy of Masters gloves (+1 thaco, +2 damage)
When thinking about it, I cant imagine any other class that can do what this guy can do. ID items which actually made a difference immediately during my play. Unbelievable opening spike damage that rivals the best mages thanks to 3 powerful traps (thief + mage) plus a backstab at better thaco than a thief. Cant be fooled by illusions. Better AOE than fighters & better survival skills than fighters (mage spells). Better defense and sustained damage than mages especially in places where you cant rest.On top of all that, he can match fighter AC. In retrospect I should have done a 1 hand weapon with shields since damage output has not been a problem but getting hit is somewhat troublesome given his low hit points. I would probably go with long swords or clubs since crushing damage seems to own everything in this game. But I found 3 great longswords so that might bridge the gap with crushing damage. His AC is currently -4 but with the shields I have found I could have brought that down to -7.
The only real issues I have had with him is hit points. He has very few. In fact, Imoen has more hit points than he does even with the familiar in by backpack. He almost ate dirt in the tower when he got double backstabbed. This is one reason for wanting the extra AC instead of the damage from quarterstaff's. Also the lack of a cleric in the party has been annoying but now with the alignment change helmet and since i already hit the XP cap, im thinking of bringing Viconia along for the ride as a goodie lol.
Really enjoying this run.
But even these stats are low if you are ready to keep re-importing characters that have beaten the game, without even resorting to character file editors.
Playing a backstabber in BG1, qstaff is by far the best category IMHO since you have so much to choose from, easily accessable +3 qstaff in Ulgoth's beard (you buy it, why do you still have your +1?
The staffmace is available in BG2 as well, so it's not just something you can do in BG1.
Holy Crap....my personal best was a couple 101. and thats already pretty nuts.
Normally i settle for a 93+ so i can go for all 18's and one 3~ dumpstat normally Wisdom or Charisma deepening on the character.
which can be found here:
the succubus on the top floor of durlag's tower has it, so either pick pocket it from her, or kill her for it