How do you still enjoy the game?
ifupauline
Member Posts: 405
This question is mainly directed to those who have been playing since vanilla release and went through this game a LOT of times. But of course anyone's opinion is welcome.
So everything is in the title. In 2016, after so many years, how do you still enjoy bg2? And I mean by that, what is your setup? Multiplayer? Single? Solo? Mods? What is your mindset? What are you goals when you start a run?
I am asking this because I am simply starting to get bored of bg2, in a general way.
So everything is in the title. In 2016, after so many years, how do you still enjoy bg2? And I mean by that, what is your setup? Multiplayer? Single? Solo? Mods? What is your mindset? What are you goals when you start a run?
I am asking this because I am simply starting to get bored of bg2, in a general way.
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And, mods. I mostly used mods that change my experience a little, or add companions. These are main categories of mods. No total conversions, big-arse quest-related mods or things like that.
I use mods, but after all this years ( I started before ToB expansion) there is not much challenge and fun in beating the game. My way to still have a lot of fun is creating a new party, whith self created and/or NPC toons, and then exploring their potential, not as single characters but as a team.
My tipical BG2 run, from Chateau Irenicus to the end of ToB, often take weeks or even months, because I save before each battle (not a couple of goblins....) and fight it multiple times, exploring the different tactics and choices. So I fight the same battle whith all the cheese and power tactics that I know or can discover, but also whithout any cheese. And maybe only ranged, only mlee, only magic, no protective buffs, save or else spells, but high chance of else happening, each toon solo while the others wait in a corner. and so on.
Every party give new combinations, a party whith F/M/T, C/M and blade or another whith 2 x F/M, T/M and Sorcerer are both versatile but very different to play.
Sometimes Charname go solo, but is not a thing for me, my sorcerer of the solo run I am now making after reaching level cap recruited 5 NPC's, he did not need them, just felt alone.
One costant thing of my playng is starting uderpowered against enemies overpowered for the mods I use and reaching in a quite short time a huge level of power. The XP of the mod quests I use and the fact that my ideal parties are of 3 or 4 people helps a lot. And having in mid or late SoA a ToB level party for me is not a problem, since I don't have anyway problems in beating the game, give only more possibilities to my experimentation.
Most of my parties at some point of ToB, usually after the fire giants, have told me all that they can tell, and then the BG phase is ended, I leave the pc and start to do something other.
I play Tactics and Ascension to increase the difficulty.
I play no-reload to make the games more suspenseful.
I do experimental runs to pick apart how the game works and stress-test exploits (I've invented a few myself).
I post on this forum to document what I'm doing.
I read this forum to get new ideas.
And when I do get tired, I depart from the game a little while and come back later.
Tagging @bengoshi and @Blackraven and @Gotural and @DragonKing and @Buttercheese and @Lord_Tansheron for their thoughts.
Modded ofcourse, mainly with Scs with the most difficult options. +Item randomiser. Plus I modded my game myself too, added lots of extra challenge, new monsters, spawn points, new treasures, shops etc. I have added so many things to an already huge game I forget most of them and it catches me up by surprise.
I create my own character with baldurised portrait and all, plus I create my real life boyfriend as a mp character (along with his baldurised portrait as well) to help my char out in the game, rest I fill from the npcs. I play minimal reload:only load if the main two are irreversibly killed. All other perma npc deaths are permanent in my game-this allows me to try out new npcs and the challenge to equip/level them.
I still mod my game here and there, adding and chaning stuff, so each walkthrough is a bit different. I only play on my Ipad too, it is a great comfort!
Baldur's Gate has a lot of that to fiddle with. Lots of numbers. Lots of variables. Lots of possible setups. And then all that is multiplied by what mods add to the mix.
I find it difficult to pinpoint exactly why THIS game and not another, but perhaps that is just not an objective argument to make in the first place. I like BG. I like the way it's presented, the way it handles, the robust, dynamic yet cerebral combat system.
It just all combines into something I find highly entertaining even in the long run.
But there is no doubt that the support of modders and, more recently, the EE and its changes, have played a SUBSTANTIAL role for the longevity of the game for me. Without mods like SCS, I would have put this game aside years ago. Without people like @Demivrgvs making things like IR and SR, I might have stopped after a few dabbles into the EE. But they're there, and I'm enjoying every moment.
BG is like a fine wine. Yes it's old, yes it's heavy - but it's also complex and sophisticated. It's a product that requires a connoisseur to appreciate, and is all the more rewarding for it.
Of course, all of this is heavily spiced by personal memory and nostalgia. The game connects to a particular time, and particular circumstances, on a subconscious level. It would probably be hard for new players to feel the same connection, but it's not impossible for new bonds to form. Compared to modern, visually flashy but narratively thin dime-a-dozen AAAs, Baldur's Gate more than holds up to the test for me.
I guess the major fact that keeps me hungry to play it right now is the fact that i never finished a SCS no-reload run. I did it in BG1, came very close in BG2, but no cigar. But you know what, part of me kind of doesn't want to finish it. Because i'm afraid that, if i do, a chapter in my life might close. And i want the BG experience to be perennial.
On topic...
Short story: BG is still the best medieval/fantasy RPG out there, at least for me.
Long story: only two games come close to it imo, Divinity Original Sin and Pillars of Eternity. DOS has a cool combat system with interactive terrain and combos, and nice roleplay options, but the story is 'meh' and once fully explored the combat becomes very repetitive and "flat". Pillars has the graphic I would have wanted for BGEE and a very D&D-esque combat system (it's almost copy/paste at first glance) with more interesting non-spellcaster classes, but it lacks the deep spell system of BG (protection vs removals, utility spells such as Resilient Sphere, Teleport Field, Maze, etc) and most abilities/spells end up being pretty much the same with different numbers or dmg type (e.g. even Mirror Image is just increased deflection). Some PoE NPCs are really well written, and the game surpasses BG in quite a few aspects, but the story is not very "engaging/epic" imo and it still lacks a few things that elevate BG above it and all other RPGs.
BG still has the largest most epic scale when it comes to story, the best combat system (albeit SCS/IR/SR play a HUGE role in this imo), and some of the most memorable characters ever. The D&D setting is also a big big plus for me.
That being said, like others said, if it wasn't for mods such as SCS, Ascension, aTweaks, RR, BG1 NPC project, ToBEx (which for now makes the original game superior to EE imo), etc. I would have probably abandoned BG by now, and Pillars of Eternity would be the new "King of RPGs" for me.
The truth is I don't really enjoy using computers in the same way that I do say, driving my car. Therefore there must be something really special about BG that makes me want to switch my computer on in the first place, and for me it is the infinite number of scenarios I can create using different characters and npcs.
For me every game of BG is different - and I think that says it all.
Edit: Forgot to add that most importantly I get a lot of inspiration for characters and playthroughs from posts and participants on this board - thank you all!
There're several reasons, but I would like to concentrate on the most important ones.
Challenge.
With each playthrough of BG, I always try to set a new aim, something that I haven't done before. Some time ago I managed to complete BG1 without reloads. Then I tried and succeeded in doing it with the SCS mod. Then I tried a 75-stat run - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/15828/the-75-roll-no-reload-no-resurrection-challenge/, then a random run - when all your stats and companions are pre-defined by the random method - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/17887/create-a-random-game-optional-no-reload-speed-game-contest-included-spoilers#latest.
Then the thought about the most difficult class to solo the game began to interest me. From http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30508/which-is-the-most-difficult-solo-single-class-kit-or-no-kit-for-bg-saga/p1 I figured out that playing a solo druid would be the hardest choice.
I enjoyed the challenge and it was an amazing experience.
I managed to complete both BG1 and SoA, but my character couldn't win in the last ToB fight - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/30553/the-tale-of-the-totemic-druid/.
And you see, I still don't have it accomplished - to finish BG without reloads with the hardest character to solo.
Another challenge that I've been busy for years is playing Insane SCS no-reload games with parties. Only last week I managed to complete BG1 with this rule, but I still have SoA and ToB to try myself.
And, the ultimate challenge. The funniest, the most refreshing, and the one I'm enjoying the most. Trying to beat BG in a MP mode without reloads. We're playing BG with forumites, like @Tresset , @Gotural , @CrevsDaak , @GemHound , @semiticgod , @Meyahi , @Neverused in an attempt to beat BG together without reloads. More people will want to join us in the future, I'm sure about it. Because, you know, it's not so easy and we have to start again from time to time, with new characters.
So, there're always challenges in front of me, always something that I have not accomplished even after all these years, always something to try.
Knowledge
I want to learn more about the game. We have this thread, https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/29289/did-you-know#latest, with new facts coming every day. And no matter how many times I played, I always learn something new. A new strategy, a new spell trick, a new dialogue line. There're plenty things to discover in BG games.
I cannot say I know everything about every class and every kit and every spell in the game. It's a long process and I'm not even on 50% of discovering it, I think.
Sharing the joy
This forum is massive. By communicating with others, by reading others' posts I get a lot. People coming with fresh ideas, people sharing their insights. It just makes you try new things, again and again.
Among other threads, we have https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/40393/maybe-this-time-no-reload-thread-bardin-the-cleric-thief-takes-on-kangaxs-twisted-rune#latest - where people share their attempts to beat the game. I've learned that reporting about your runs can be very exciting and in the end it just adds to my desire to play the game more.
Future
Just the thought that I'm going to try something BG-related that I have never experienced, is a boost for me. Siege of Dragonspear, with all its quests, characters and improvements. And a new game, BGNext, whatever it's called, is a reason to play once more, in an anticipation of future discoveries.
A lot more RP choices and party choices that the PWgamer is forced to discard.
I am a PWgamer, but in my first BG2 years I was not so and had fun for the same reasons you have now.
I didn't even know that I was still relevant on these forums, I thought people forgot I existed.
Ultimately I will eventually depart from a game because even the greatest game be it multi or single-player, RPG or RTS, TBS or etc; will eventually grow still stale to me because of the fact I like to overdose on things I enjoy. I did it with shadow run, fable, rise of nations, elemental legendary hero's, divinity original suns, phantom dust, jade empire (like seriously am I the only person who beat this game using only support/magic/weapon styles?), the elder scroll series, Vampires the masquarade and many others.
I spent so much time in both phantom dust and final fantasy tactics that to this day I still know those games by heart and how to break them.
But with that said, the two most important factors that will keep me coming back to a game is
1. How much inspiration can I draw from it to actually attempt fan art?
2. Can the game be modded and how strong is its modding community?
TES was the first game series every on pc that introduced me to the concept of modding and breaking your freaking game. Mods are single handedly the ultimate reason why i became a devote pc gamer.
This that are worth mentioning, when a video game does have a interesting forum, that may help but honestly it only keeps me interested in the forum not the game.
Role playing, sadly I've only played a handful of games that even come close to vampires the masquerade in the area, so that doesn't always help me.VTM just had so many choices and ways of role-playing that you could literally go through 90%-100% of that game without fighting. It was just ridiculous, and the actions actually affected the character.
Then again I'm neither a meta nor a power gamer, if anything I'm an exploration gamer and story reader. I want to explored the world, see what it has to offer me, look for ways to break it, and then move on.
Dragons master race!
I mean, that is good to know, thanks.
It's much the same thing. Baldur's Gate is a familiar experience that I enjoy. Periodically I'll come back to it, play it to death, get bored of it, and then ignore it for several years, same as many of the best games in my collection.
However destructive it is to my productivity. Sigh.
By increasing the difficulty through mods
By keeping the amount of powergaming at a minimum, and therefore the challenge and immersion alive
By coming back every once a year or two, and not overplaying it
And never, EVER, rest in dungeons. It's a game breaking, especially for wizards and sorcerers.
For starters, I love the atmosphere. The whole medieval fantasy vibe is awesome to me.
Next I love it's tactical structure. The combat is fun and occasionally requires some good planning. As a combat game it's mostly light fluff, but just enough meat to keep it satisfying.
I like the characters; Imoen, Minsc, Aerie are all like old friends to me.
I just love 2E, and I don't get so much PnP anymore. So I often recreate favorite characters from a PnP game, or a book or movie and play around with them for awhile.
I really can't see this "tactical structure" in BG (both I & II). IWD, in other hand, requires micromanagement at every step (specially in a no-rest run).
If you have a good ranged-based character in BG1 you can just go shenanigans in pretty much every battle. Same applies if you have a "magic sponge" (someone with lots of magic resistance or able to somehow absorb spells) in BG2.
There's an ideia for a new run: no arcane spellcaster all the way from Candlekeep to ToB!
Funny thing is that i never played as evil, i just can't do it.
Anywho... I still enjoy BG2 because every time I play through it, it's different enough to warrant a new playthrough. Mods help with that of course. I just enjoy coming up with different characters and see how the world BG reacts to them. Sometimes I have a preset story for a new Bhaalspawn in my head that I want to "warrant" by actually playing them. Most of the time it's simple escapism.
When it comes to mods, I usually use mods that allow extra interaction with characters and "spice it up" a little bit
Here a (probably incomplete) list of mods I like to use: Edwin romance, Ajantis companion, Romantic Encounters, Viconia friendship, Mazzy friendship, Haer'Dalis romance, Yoshimo romance, Sarevok romance, Kivan companion, Xan companion.
IMO BG2 allowes for the purest roleplay experience in any videogame I ever played, because the world and characters actually properly react to the things you do, or it at least creates a believable illussion of this. And it actually does make a difference what kind of character you play and in nuances. Most RPGs allow you for maybe three different character types, if you are lucky.
So until a game comes along that actually manages to trump that experience, I will always go back to BG2.
I keep playing because of breaks from the game, just playing parts of the games, mods, and EE. Mods were a HUGE reason I keep getting enjoyment out of the games. Plus I don't always finish a complete game, so some parts aren't so stale and overplayed.
I actually haven't started a new game in awhile because I was waiting for BG2EE to get patched after its release and then Adventure Y rumors surfaced. I've been dreaming of a Trilogy run including the new SoD using the original Toon from my very first BG1 game. Jubbal the elven F/M