I would really like to say a lot more than what I'm about to say but as a moderator I believe it would be inappropriate. So Let me just repeat what I posted in my wall when we noticed the situation was improving.
"A big thank you to all of you who have maintained a cool head and tried to argument and have a civil conversation instead of flaming. "
And let me add one more thing. I'm very proud of you.
I would really like to say a lot more than what I'm about to say but as a moderator I believe it would be inappropriate. So Let me just repeat what I posted in my wall when we noticed the situation was improving.
"A big thank you to all of you who have maintained a cool head and tried to argument and have a civil conversation instead of flaming. "
And let me add one more thing. I'm very proud of you.
Being able to put my head in the freezer made it easy for me...
Plus I cannot big up enough the excellent preserving properties...
I have been absent for a long time from these forums, because, well, real life and all, heh. Currently in my last year of my studies, and the teachers are making sure to keep us all busy.
For the moment I am still a bit wary and critical when it comes to SoD. I'm not sure whether I should buy it. I don't like controversies, nor do I like political correctness and social justice stuff and all that. I just want to play a nice game with the characters I know and love, and go on epic adventures with them. I had no problem with the inclusion of the extra characters to the enhanced editions, but this... I don't know how to feel about Mizhena and the whole GamersGate thing. On one hand, my trust in Beamdog has been hurt, because I never thought they would add things which could so obviously lead to a controversy. But on the other hand I must admit I haven't played the game myself yet and thus might be getting pulled into the whole thing by what I'm reading from reviews and such. Well, for now I don't have the money to buy SoD anyway, so I'll hold off for a while. I'll probably check out some playthroughs on YouTube first.
I feel the atmosphere has changed on these forums, though. I feel as if nothing bad can be said about SoD, which makes a honest conversation about it difficult. Even here political correctness is kicking in, and that's usually a sign for me to stay away. I've had about enough of being branded a xenophobe/racist/something for no reason at all. There was a time when I was really involved in such online discussions and it almost got me into a depression. No reason to relive those times.
I can't speak for @Kitteh_On_A_Cloud but I am reluctant to share any critiques of the game for fear of unintentionally aiding the transphobes and MRAs. Something similar happened with Hexxat where legitimate critiques of the writing were lumped together with critiques born out of racism and homophobia. The story was bad and Beamdog should have made a Clara NPC -- this does not make me a homophobe or racist.
Kitteh. There is one line down an optional conversational path. If you aren't looking to be offended you won't be. I have no problems criticizing Beamdog -- but this isn't a fight they were seeking, the other side is headhunting.
The game deserves an 8 out of 10 and it is better than ToSC. Perfect? No. Worth 20 dollars? Absolutely.
Don't worry, the actual content that one can possibly construe as political in nature is actually quite minimal. The Gamergate line was probably unwise, and is being removed, but most wouldn't know what it was referring too unless they were informed (I had to google image it). There is one trans character, who some people seem to have taken offense to, but you only find that out if you ask about her name.
Now, I know you are from Belgium and that, after the recent terrorist attacks, refugees are a hot-button issue. There are refugees in the game, and social issues are brought up regarding how they can be housed and cared for. However, from what I've seen so far there is no discussion in the context of the game involving the cultural and national security issues that reasonable people may have disagreements on when it comes to refugees.
Overall, any preachiness or political posturing in the game is de minimis, unless someone is actively seeking to participate in political discourse on this board and others over a nominal amount of dialogue.
I'm not going to lie, I'm happy I can return to the forums again. I just decided to get scarce while I waited for the trolls at the Castle Wall to get bored before resuming my own siege.
And in the process, I got a new job that I start tomorrow. A STEADY SCHEDULE! PRAISE BE UNTO MYSTRA AND TORM!
I feel the atmosphere has changed on these forums, though. I feel as if nothing bad can be said about SoD, which makes a honest conversation about it difficult. Even here political correctness is kicking in, and that's usually a sign for me to stay away. I've had about enough of being branded a xenophobe/racist/something for no reason at all. There was a time when I was really involved in such online discussions and it almost got me into a depression. No reason to relive those times.
This reminds me of this comment from @Xzar from not long ago:
This forum was always full of liberals who were free to speak their minds, and closeted reactionaires who leaned to keep their mouth shut because they were being picked on, and shamed, and banned. I'm here from the very foundation of this forum and I always knew better than to speak my mind openly, because I knew the opposition will be too immense, and I would be eaten alive. Only for last days I feel secure enough to speak, because even if you ban me, at least I wont be alone in this.
Guys and gals! If you follow the site rules and express your ideas without breaking the PG-13 rule, without using such instruments as trolling and without flaming other users, you're free to express whatever idea you have. If anybody make you think it's not like that, if anybody pushes you to the wall, there're moderators to help.
So, anything can be said about SoD, "reactionaires" can very much share their opinions, if it is spoken in an intelligent and respectful way.
I have been absent for a long time from these forums, because, well, real life and all, heh. Currently in my last year of my studies, and the teachers are making sure to keep us all busy.
For the moment I am still a bit wary and critical when it comes to SoD. I'm not sure whether I should buy it. I don't like controversies, nor do I like political correctness and social justice stuff and all that. I just want to play a nice game with the characters I know and love, and go on epic adventures with them. I had no problem with the inclusion of the extra characters to the enhanced editions, but this... I don't know how to feel about Mizhena and the whole GamersGate thing. On one hand, my trust in Beamdog has been hurt, because I never thought they would add things which could so obviously lead to a controversy. But on the other hand I must admit I haven't played the game myself yet and thus might be getting pulled into the whole thing by what I'm reading from reviews and such. Well, for now I don't have the money to buy SoD anyway, so I'll hold off for a while. I'll probably check out some playthroughs on YouTube first.
I feel the atmosphere has changed on these forums, though. I feel as if nothing bad can be said about SoD, which makes a honest conversation about it difficult. Even here political correctness is kicking in, and that's usually a sign for me to stay away. I've had about enough of being branded a xenophobe/racist/something for no reason at all. There was a time when I was really involved in such online discussions and it almost got me into a depression. No reason to relive those times.
I've always been relatively critical about aspects of the games I don't like, including the story in SoD I have never felt excluded or ostracised from discussions surrounding these issues.
I think one of the issues that was unfairly levelled at the mods and developers was that they were shutting down criticisms and discussions of the issue to silence people. In my experience, I would have to say this is definitely *not* the case. Perhaps some threads were closed when they shouldn't have been but overall that is as much of the fault of the forums always becoming pretty hectic a week or so after new releases (for obvious reasons). A lot of the closed topics were closed just because there already existed a bunch of other larger threads discussing exactly the same thing. Maybe in an ideal world with enough moderators, the threads would have been merged rather than closed, but regardless, there was, and still are, at least 3-4 threads active at a given time for discussing and criticising the issues in SoDs writing.
Anyway, I don't like a lot of the writing in SoD, but I don't feel like I'm being chased away or excluded from these forums, and I would rather participate in the process of improving BG, a game which I still love, and convert as many people to my point of view as I can rather than just abandoning it and walking away.
I feel like I probably have a lot more in common with a vocal SJW who loves bg and similar games than I do with someone philosophically and idealogically more similar to me who is ambivalent towards bg.
While I dont like the writing, that is only one aspect of the expansion, and there are lots of things that have been done to the game that have really improved the experience, which from my perspective are awesome and certainly worth the money.
Although my recent absence wasn't related to whatever was going on here over the last two weeks, I can see that it was fortuitously timed. When I have something to say I say it diplomatically; when I have nothing constructive to say I don't say anything. If I say something with which someone disagrees then they have three choices: 1) ignore me, 2) get upset about it, or 3) sit down with me and discuss it over coffee (not literally, of course).
The only thing which surprises me is that not everyone follows this behavior pattern. Then again, I am not in charge of everyone.
Well, @typo_tilly, you can be absolutely sure that I'm not here to lead discussions astray. I love the Baldur's Gate games passionately, and I'm sure the Beamdog team feels the same way. However, this does not mean that I will blindly root for them in everything they do. The times I was a blind fan girl of developer X or publisher Y are behind me, unfortunately. Currently I'm still on the fence when it comes to SoD, but this may still change as time passes and I see more evidence myself. I admire you for bravely moderating these forums during these less pleasant times, and I hope it's not too hard for you to cope with us all.
Comments
"A big thank you to all of you who have maintained a cool head and tried to argument and have a civil conversation instead of flaming. "
And let me add one more thing. I'm very proud of you.
Plus I cannot big up enough the excellent preserving properties...
For the moment I am still a bit wary and critical when it comes to SoD. I'm not sure whether I should buy it. I don't like controversies, nor do I like political correctness and social justice stuff and all that. I just want to play a nice game with the characters I know and love, and go on epic adventures with them. I had no problem with the inclusion of the extra characters to the enhanced editions, but this... I don't know how to feel about Mizhena and the whole GamersGate thing. On one hand, my trust in Beamdog has been hurt, because I never thought they would add things which could so obviously lead to a controversy. But on the other hand I must admit I haven't played the game myself yet and thus might be getting pulled into the whole thing by what I'm reading from reviews and such. Well, for now I don't have the money to buy SoD anyway, so I'll hold off for a while. I'll probably check out some playthroughs on YouTube first.
I feel the atmosphere has changed on these forums, though. I feel as if nothing bad can be said about SoD, which makes a honest conversation about it difficult. Even here political correctness is kicking in, and that's usually a sign for me to stay away. I've had about enough of being branded a xenophobe/racist/something for no reason at all. There was a time when I was really involved in such online discussions and it almost got me into a depression. No reason to relive those times.
Kitteh. There is one line down an optional conversational path. If you aren't looking to be offended you won't be. I have no problems criticizing Beamdog -- but this isn't a fight they were seeking, the other side is headhunting.
The game deserves an 8 out of 10 and it is better than ToSC. Perfect? No. Worth 20 dollars? Absolutely.
Don't worry, the actual content that one can possibly construe as political in nature is actually quite minimal. The Gamergate line was probably unwise, and is being removed, but most wouldn't know what it was referring too unless they were informed (I had to google image it). There is one trans character, who some people seem to have taken offense to, but you only find that out if you ask about her name.
Now, I know you are from Belgium and that, after the recent terrorist attacks, refugees are a hot-button issue. There are refugees in the game, and social issues are brought up regarding how they can be housed and cared for. However, from what I've seen so far there is no discussion in the context of the game involving the cultural and national security issues that reasonable people may have disagreements on when it comes to refugees.
Overall, any preachiness or political posturing in the game is de minimis, unless someone is actively seeking to participate in political discourse on this board and others over a nominal amount of dialogue.
And in the process, I got a new job that I start tomorrow. A STEADY SCHEDULE! PRAISE BE UNTO MYSTRA AND TORM!
So, anything can be said about SoD, "reactionaires" can very much share their opinions, if it is spoken in an intelligent and respectful way.
I have never felt excluded or ostracised from discussions surrounding these issues.
I think one of the issues that was unfairly levelled at the mods and developers was that they were shutting down criticisms and discussions of the issue to silence people. In my experience, I would have to say this is definitely *not* the case. Perhaps some threads were closed when they shouldn't have been but overall that is as much of the fault of the forums always becoming pretty hectic a week or so after new releases (for obvious reasons). A lot of the closed topics were closed just because there already existed a bunch of other larger threads discussing exactly the same thing. Maybe in an ideal world with enough moderators, the threads would have been merged rather than closed, but regardless, there was, and still are, at least 3-4 threads active at a given time for discussing and criticising the issues in SoDs writing.
Anyway, I don't like a lot of the writing in SoD, but I don't feel like I'm being chased away or excluded from these forums, and I would rather participate in the process of improving BG, a game which I still love, and convert as many people to my point of view as I can rather than just abandoning it and walking away.
I feel like I probably have a lot more in common with a vocal SJW who loves bg and similar games than I do with someone philosophically and idealogically more similar to me who is ambivalent towards bg.
While I dont like the writing, that is only one aspect of the expansion, and there are lots of things that have been done to the game that have really improved the experience, which from my perspective are awesome and certainly worth the money.
Finally, if you want to listen to peoples in depth reviews and post your own, you can do that here:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50741/give-your-personal-review-of-sod-and-2-0-changes-here
There is rather a lot more to the expansion than you might have heard
The only thing which surprises me is that not everyone follows this behavior pattern. Then again, I am not in charge of everyone.