Changing the original TOB - which these parties own pieces of - and replacing substantial parts of it with a mod they do NOT own pieces of - and going through all the legal shenanigans required to do so - for the sole purpose of making it more appealing to those players who prefer it to the original is something entirely different and as I see it (and I suspect those who own pieces of these properties might see it) there is no compelling reason to do so when the mod can simply be made available to be added after release for those who choose to use it.
One of the more prominent marketing strategies for the EE has been to point out that you can finally play "Baldur's Gate" without having to use mods. To then say that a story-based component approved by David Gaider can't be included - and that players wanting to incorporate "Ascension" must wait for the mod to be adapted to the EE (if in fact that's even possible) - is, in my eyes, somewhat problematic.
Think about it - do you really think anyone who prefers Ascension to the original TOB is not going to buy this game if it is not included in the original package on Nov 30 and ends up only being available later as either a mod or DLC?
I can't speak to what other people will do, but as I've said, the big stumbling block for me is that I know the existing story and characters haven't been changed or updated at all, and that's something that's significantly more important to me than gameplay. New party members are great and all, but as it currently stands the EE's enhancements are almost exclusively related to visual/mechanical upgrades - that's fine for how I play BG, but it's not why I play BG.
According to Trent, within whatever contract restrictions he's negotiated. The only result of polls/threads like this is to show him what the fans would like to see.
Ultimately the outcome hardly matters to any of the people involved in this discussion - we all know how to get what we want regardless. The purists will always be able to play the original version while the rest of us know how to mod the game if the EE doesn't include Ascension. The people it affects are the more casual players who will never bother to visit this forum (which is the majority of players). If Ascension is included in the game they'll play it, if not they'll probably never know it exists.
I understand that it has a lot of good 'fixes' in it, but I personally cannot stand the mod's attempt at making Irenicus into a sympathetic and redeemable character. I vote no on this purely because I wouldn't want that forced on my playing experience. Make it work as an optional mod, but keep it the hell away from my standard play-through.
I voted yes to both rp and combat changes but tbh I think they would be better off keeping the original fights because some people won't be able to beat them. I'd still keep the improved demogorgon(because it hardly any more difficult) and the improved final fight because it's one of the easiest boss fights in the entire game on "normal". Either way the Ascension story stuff is basically canon for me and I can't really play BG2EE until that is in either by Overhaul or with an updated mod.
Holy thread necromancy, Batman! I forgot all about this thing.
The vote seems to be split pretty evenly among three of the four choices. So the best option might be to work on updating the mod and release it to the mod community on (or soon after) BG2EE's release day. That way those who want it will be able to use it and know that it works, and those who don't want it don't have to worry about it.
I understand that it has a lot of good 'fixes' in it, but I personally cannot stand the mod's attempt at making Irenicus into a sympathetic and redeemable character. I vote no on this purely because I wouldn't want that forced on my playing experience. Make it work as an optional mod, but keep it the hell away from my standard play-through.
That mod is The Longer Road (Redemption in the old version), you are confusing.
I'd be satisfied with Ascension as selectable DLC, but I'm personally not interested in playing BG II without it, and much of the attraction of the enhanced editions for me is their "no muss, no fuss" aspect.
I play Ascension but there's no way random Joe iPad user is going to be able to deal with some of those fights. I would love for the mod to be included, but the standard setting shold have far less difficult battles with the option to tune them up to the regular Ascension difficulty.
I play Ascension but there's no way random Joe iPad user is going to be able to deal with some of those fights. I would love for the mod to be included, but the standard setting shold have far less difficult battles with the option to tune them up to the regular Ascension difficulty.
To be fair, if random Joe iPad has reached the end of ToB, he or she has presumably gained enough experience with the game to make it through the final battle just fine.
The next time you decide to make a provocative comment against a group of users that have varying perspectives within that group, at least take the extra minutes to read the entire posts instead of simply picking what you want and then referring to everything we say as nonsense. It's just a courtesy, and it's something that your comment leads me to believe that you lack in spades.
But....this is the internet....isn't that what everyone is supposed to do???? A pinch of rhetoric plus a pound of hyperbole presented by a battalion of strawmen (and ladies) with a sprinkle of condescension on top?(insert snarky smiley face here)
Judging by any 'possible BG3' or 'sequels are teh devil' thread, then yeah, that sounds about right.
Ascension is fantastic, but many players will not be prepared for the difficulty of the new battles. Those battles are for people familiar with squeezing all the little bits of extra power they can from a party.
So, basically, I had a bad vote. Y'all convinced me otherwise.
I love Irenicus so my vote goes to redemption mod hehehe so I can use the most awsome guy as a party member
There are no conflicts between The Longer Road and Ascension, so they work together
Really?? I always thought there would be conflicts so I never tried the Ascension mod hmm the question is, how to make enough time to play EE and old BG!!
anyways tnx for clearing that up
ps why aren't I getting any notifications when someone is quoting me?
I think some of the Ascension fights are just too tough for non-expert players. Even with a very powerful party and good meta knowledge I found some of the fights pushing me pretty hard. The raining-dragons fight, Yaga Shura (continually spawning lots of enemies) and to some extent the final fight (tho mostly I didn't find this too bad).
However the storyline stuff would definitely be a good addition. But I suspect Beamdog's contract won't permit this.
Let the game be itself and let mods be themselves. Not to say that I have no respect for modders, but the only content I want in the "base" game is "official" content made by sufficiently qualified and authorized individuals who have the permission of the original development team/corporation. I do not play or install mods made by random individuals who's authorization and/or credentials are alien to me, regardless of their content.
You're playing modded content right now. The devs included some graphics from 1PP, a third-party mod, into BG:EE.
Just a counter-point about the final battle in Ascension being too difficult for "non-expert players" - if you're at the end of ToB, you've spent enough hours on the game that you're not a novice anymore...
Just a counter-point about the final battle in Ascension being too difficult for "non-expert players" - if you're at the end of ToB, you've spent enough hours on the game that you're not a novice anymore...
I loved Ascension, but would really like to see the final battle re-worked (or redone entirely) rather than included as-is.
The difficulty's not a factor for me so much as the very nature of it -- at the end of this huge, sprawling epic of a game, I don't really want to fight recycled bosses. It felt gimmicky, not just because we had faced Irenicus and the Five before, but because we had faced almost the exact same versions of them. For a mod, I appreciate the effort, but for a company-backed release of the game I would like to see it tweaked somehow -- maybe give the Five some kind of unique new powers, or fancy demonic sprites to show that they're manifestations of pure, murderous unholy power, rather than just "oh, yeah. These guys again." The ending of ToB needs to feel way, way bigger, and I appreciate the attempt, but Ascension just didn't do it for me.
I'd like to reiterate, though, that I loved Ascension in general, and facing the Five without it (especially Sendai and Yaga-Shura) felt incredibly anticlimactic.
I would love to see Ascension implemented into the official BG2EE:ToB release Gaider is the former lead designer, this is his baby, this'll be a director's cut if you will. Difficulty is moot, why would someone start with the third chapter of a trilogy? By the time they finish bg2 they should have some idea of what they're doing ...
This mod was great as David Gaider released it, any increase in difficulty should be within the rules - my memory is a bit hazy, but I remember playing this after it was modded and the final battle was just a drawn out slugfest (in TOB).
Things (likely unrelated mod but useful as an example) like improved Irenicus being able to remove certain items from you was just silly.
This mod is great for meta gamers and role players alike. The role playing is great (though I wish Sarevok's sword could become a more powerful +6 weapon that would surpass even Gram but oh well) and the tough fights are about as equally hard as Draconis unmodded (though Abazigal and Mellissan are harder IMO). Having said that though, this is an old game that should be close (& is with mods) to nintendo hard and it is that difficulty combined with a well designed tactical magic system that makes the challenge fun. You really do feel satisfied when you beat a difficult fight and you get better when you do as well as with practice. Who here didn't yell "YES" when SCSii kangaxx or Ascension Mellissan finally went down. And why did you feel the need to YELL it instead if just smile. Because you felt like you accomplished something big and that's what this mode does hence why it should be fully included. It's this old hard but fair (or slightly unfair) that more games need these days, not luck and quick reflexes.
I love Ascension and install the mod everytime I play ToB. But the very simple answer is that it's a mod and can be installed or not installed as an individual sees fit. I have no desire to force my mod choices on others involuntarily. All individuals have a right to enjoy the game and story play through as originally released...
Comments
Ultimately the outcome hardly matters to any of the people involved in this discussion - we all know how to get what we want regardless. The purists will always be able to play the original version while the rest of us know how to mod the game if the EE doesn't include Ascension. The people it affects are the more casual players who will never bother to visit this forum (which is the majority of players). If Ascension is included in the game they'll play it, if not they'll probably never know it exists.
The vote seems to be split pretty evenly among three of the four choices. So the best option might be to work on updating the mod and release it to the mod community on (or soon after) BG2EE's release day. That way those who want it will be able to use it and know that it works, and those who don't want it don't have to worry about it.
and bg CAN be very hard for new players
So, basically, I had a bad vote. Y'all convinced me otherwise.
anyways tnx for clearing that up
ps why aren't I getting any notifications when someone is quoting me?
However the storyline stuff would definitely be a good addition. But I suspect Beamdog's contract won't permit this.
The difficulty's not a factor for me so much as the very nature of it -- at the end of this huge, sprawling epic of a game, I don't really want to fight recycled bosses. It felt gimmicky, not just because we had faced Irenicus and the Five before, but because we had faced almost the exact same versions of them. For a mod, I appreciate the effort, but for a company-backed release of the game I would like to see it tweaked somehow -- maybe give the Five some kind of unique new powers, or fancy demonic sprites to show that they're manifestations of pure, murderous unholy power, rather than just "oh, yeah. These guys again." The ending of ToB needs to feel way, way bigger, and I appreciate the attempt, but Ascension just didn't do it for me.
I'd like to reiterate, though, that I loved Ascension in general, and facing the Five without it (especially Sendai and Yaga-Shura) felt incredibly anticlimactic.
Things (likely unrelated mod but useful as an example) like improved Irenicus being able to remove certain items from you was just silly.
I love Ascension and install the mod everytime I play ToB. But the very simple answer is that it's a mod and can be installed or not installed as an individual sees fit. I have no desire to force my mod choices on others involuntarily. All individuals have a right to enjoy the game and story play through as originally released...