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Neutral/Good Party Advice - Too many clerics?

Hey everyone! :smile:

I am not a total newbie, yet I have never really got very far in BG, so I am starting out once again.

Will try to make this as short as possible:
I am looking for a party NPC advice as there are so many options and I am confused whom to pick and whom not.
- Lore and fun is important, not just being only super-duper the strongest.
- I am fixed with these characters:
1. Me, pure Shadowdancer
2. Jaheira (lore-wise, her character, read a lot of praise about her)
3. Neera (wild magic yaaay!)
- I am really inclined to have either (or both if you suggest so):
4. Aerie (I googled a lot, her VS Viconia ... but I would like to try her as a speel powerhouse)
5. Viconia
- So, I will definitely need a tank.
6. Anomen vs Rasaad vs Keldorn vs Minsc vs Valygar vs Mazzy? (I am being judgemental here, but I find Rasaad's and Keldorn's portrait spooky and vicious. Sympathy-wise I would opt for Mazzy, Minsc or Valygar, I do not like pure alpha-male characters much but it seems like most of these males kinda are.)

Any advice greatly appreciated taking into consideration my "fixed" characters.
Also, I play BG2:EE as a co-op and basically this is our party:
1. Dwarven defender
2. Me, Shadowdancer
3. Neera
4. Viconia
5. Aerie
6. Jaheira

So a change from this would be welcome yet I seem to favour the same characters.
Also, any thoughts on out co-op party are more than welcome, I find the party too-priesty, maybe a tank would help more?

THANK YOU
all the love <3 to helpful gamers as always

Obilie
«134

Comments

  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    well so far, 1,2,3 are fine, so based on your team alignment I would go with aerie, don't need viconia, rumor has it that you can change her alignment, but I have never done it before, and I don't know if you have to romance her or not to be able to do so, so go with aerie

    with 5 and 6, I would suggest some melee chums, normally when I have play throughs I like 3 guys in melee, so based on what you will be doing with jaheira, I would suggest mazzy since she has some awesome special abilities, great saves, and 18 DEX, so she will have great AC, then next, I would choose keldorn, even though his DEX is garbage, there are a pair of mits that will set your DEX to 18 if you find them, plus keldorn, has 2 AMAZING abilities that make him awesome, plus he can use the holy avenger if you want him to go with two handed weapon style ( although sometimes I give him longswords and bastard swords)

    plus a bit of a spoiler alert here, but keldorn and viconia will eventually fight to the death, and the only thing that can stop it is reloads, so if you have those two on your team get ready to save a lot

    so if I was playing this team I would order them as:

    keldorn
    mazzy
    jaheira
    aerie
    your guy
    neera

    although I don't know if your character is going to be meleeing or not, so your guy's position might be different, now if you want to swap keldorn for minsc,valygar or rasaad that's up to you, but when it comes to the 4 or them, keldorn has the best abilities by far and he has a great opportunity to have some decent MR as well ( well I guess rasaad is like that as well, but being a monk, it could take some time before he starts kicking some serious butt) and when it comes to minsc, anything he can do, keldorn basically does better, and valygar's best ability is his backstab, but if that is what you are planning to do with your shadow dancer, well you will be doing that better than him as well, so when it comes to usefulness of your party and maximizing on covering everything you need, that above party formation fits your team best
  • SharguildSharguild Member Posts: 186
    edited May 2016
    A few considerations that sarevok57 touched on that are worth further mention.
    As you have played before, I won't bother specifying who does what;

    - alignment for one, if you plan on having a harmonious party, evil and good obviously don't mix well.
    - melee vs cannons, you need at least one tank because some enemies are FAST and if they get at your cannons, they can suffer greatly
    - do you prefer melee or spells?
    - do you prefer lock-down fights or hit and run?
    - you mention your Thief choice as you as Shadow Dancer, your thief is critical for success unless you intend to bludgeon your way through the game so ensure your Shadow Dancer is equipped for behind enemy lines action, no front line for you!
    - Mages kill, period. Tanks are walls. You stop the enemy with your tank, you kill them with your Mage(s). You start having your tank serve as dual purpose, prepare to reload a lot.
    - your Cleric/Druid (1) is a medic, that happens to serve as a tank when your Mage is threatened. Keep these two beside each other! Also, your medic can summon to protect your Mage. Do so!
    - your Mage(s) will win your fights, not your tanks, keep them alive
    - you, as Thief, will usually be the deciding factor on whether it's gonna be a long fight or a short fight, choose well each fight. Remember, guerilla tactics win more often in this game than frontal assaults.
    - best to ya

    m2c
    Post edited by Sharguild on
  • JustLeftJustLeft Member Posts: 76
    You can use Undead to tank for you while the party use range and spells from the back.

    You can use the belt that give 18 CON on Viconia and switch it with STR later and have her and Jaheira with Ironskin later to also tank when needed.

    Keldorn is great.
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    How do you like to play? You really can't go wrong with any of the NPCs you've chosen so far but here are a few ideas.

    If you bring Aerie there is no real point in bringing Viconia unless you have no cleric in the group but you have Jaheria who can cast some good cleric spells so Vic is rather redundant unless you enjoy her company. Personally I like bringing Aerie along for the divine/arcane combo that can do both buff and blast.

    Neera is nice to have along - she is your mage - get her all the high level scrolls for some fun times.

    Jaheria is your mage killer with her druid spells and your tank (with the right gear)

    With you as shadowdancer that leaves 2 spots.

    You can alternate these spots depending on quests if you like which is one option.

    You are lacking in melee power - so take someone that can help with that - Minsc is a good choice as is Valygar and Mazzy - pick one that you like. All 3 bring something unique to your party - Valygar can sneak and cast some useful mage spells; Minsc is a power house mostly and has his version of rage- but both Minsc and Valygar are rangers; Mazzy as a pure fighter (with some unique abilities) is a good choice - outfit her with some good equipment and she makes a great tank as a fighter she can grandmaster unlike rangers or paladins.

    Keldorn has some amazing abilities and is a good choice for a front line fighter with the right gear. If you decide on Viconia instead of Aerie don't bring him along.

    Rassad is an interesting choice to make - he has potential and you almost don't have to use any gear for him - quite powerful in his own way. Also a good choice for a fighter will really shine after he gets to level 12 or so.

    If the choice is between a fighter or monk - then a fighter is more versatile - as you get to use a greater selection of weapons.

    For me it in terms of fighters it would be: Mazzy > Keldorn >Minsc > Rassad >Valygar

    In terms of NPCs that I would take with me: Minsc > Mazzy or Rassad or Valygar > Keldorn

    Of course you could be radical and take Jan with you or even Yoshimo (bounty hunter is always nice for to have along).

    The final spot goes to Imoen if you decide to take her along when you get her back but if you don't pick someone you like and bring them along instead. This 6th person should be someone that can be helpful either as a 3rd melee fighter or using ranged weapon or perhaps spells.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    obilie said:

    Hey everyone! :smile:
    Lore and fun is important, not just being only super-duper the strongest.

    Just going on this:

    Start with
    Jaheria, Minsc, Yoshimo.

    Then add Aerie.

    That gives you two tanks (Jah and Minsc), two divine (Jah and Aerie), two thieves (you and yosh - allowing you to min max stealth while yoshimo picks up the other thieving skills till you level) and one arcane (aerie).

    When chapter 2 starts, you can take that last slot and rotate the other NPCs while you do their quests (Nalia for De'Arnise Keep, Korgan's Book, Keldorn and the unseeing eye etc).

    If you are not going to romance Jaheria, I suggest (in my humble opinion) to drop her for one of the other companions you enjoyed using while doing their quest.

    Aerie and Minsc work well together and Yoshimo has a good lore right in the middle of the game, however, you can drop him for Neera once your thieving skills are up to par.

    Leaving you with
    Shadowdancer
    Jaheria (romance)
    Minsc
    Aerie
    Neera
    Rotating wildcard.

    Or two tanks, two divines, two arcanes, one thief and one flavour.
  • SharguildSharguild Member Posts: 186
    edited May 2016
    I think magisensei raises a few worthwhile points that need to be determined by you for a long haul game.
    Should you focus on fun and frivolity or a no nonsense kick-ass "squash 'em all run".
    Either choice is practical and many of us, because we are addicts, have done both a few times.

    I don't mean simply power-gaming but I suppose it heh, comes into 'play".

    Selecting an expedient party to get "the job done" can be a lot of fun but sometimes we take "handi-caps" to spice it up a little.

    Expediency usually consists ( with a slight degree of variance) of 2 x Tanks, 1x Thief, 1x Medic and 2 x Mages.

    Frivolity usually warps this mixture to one extreme or the other with a "wild card" usually thrown in.

    Depending on your desires, be they "finish the damn game with minimal frustration" or "take my time and see what happens" the soup will turn out differently every time.

    I suggest the expedient route, for those not able to meta-game; as frustration, especially in ToB, can wear on you.

    But hey, if rage reloads are something that just adds excitement to your game (like me), you can mix it up wildly, there is no perfect recipe of NPCs. Everyone has their own preferred play-style and versions of "fun".
    Heh heh.

    Mind, I also like sea-urchin Sushi, so don't go by my tastes (wink).
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    sarevok57 said:


    so if I was playing this team I would order them as:

    keldorn
    mazzy
    jaheira
    aerie
    your guy
    neera

    although I don't know if your character is going to be meleeing or not, so your guy's position might be different, now if you want to swap keldorn for minsc,valygar or rasaad that's up to you, but when it comes to the 4 or them, keldorn has the best abilities by far and he has a great opportunity to have some decent MR as well ( well I guess rasaad is like that as well, but being a monk, it could take some time before he starts kicking some serious butt) and when it comes to minsc, anything he can do, keldorn basically does better, and valygar's best ability is his backstab, but if that is what you are planning to do with your shadow dancer, well you will be doing that better than him as well, so when it comes to usefulness of your party and maximizing on covering everything you need, that above party formation fits your team best

    @sarevok57 Thank you very much for your insightful response - I think I absolutely agree that Valygar seems redundant. I am just thinking about Keldron VS Rasaad VS Anomen (?), but I see your point, Keldorn (for whom I do not have many sympathies yet though) seems like the best option.
    Mazzy is a definite YES!

    Yes, Viconia can change her alignment, but I think only in ToB with a romance.
    Sharguild said:


    - alignment for one, if you plan on having a harmonious party, evil and good obviously don't mix well.
    - do you prefer melee or spells?
    - do you prefer lock-down fights or hit and run?
    - you mention your Thief choice as you as Shadow Dancer, your thief is critical for success unless you intend to bludgeon your way through the game so ensure your Shadow Dancer is equipped for behind enemy lines action, no front line for you!

    @Sharguild Thank you!
    - Well I heard that Viconia is pretty fine in an evil party (though Aerie might confront her I think) up until reputation 18. They say reputation 20 is not a huge deal to be fixated on.
    - I LOVE spells and sneaky-thiefy melee, that is why I chose a Shadowdancer as my main, plus the RP behind it, being the one disarming the traps etc.
    Hope my stats are good enough, my INT worries me a bit ...for my Lore and dialogue choices and also for RP, I really like to feel that I indeed AM an intelligent character :wink: :
    STR: 18
    DEX: 19
    CON: 17
    INT: 12
    WIS: 8
    CHA: 13
    - Lock-down or hit and run? I do not know, everything, any change welcome, as you said it, guerilla tactics:smile
    I am having big trouble with smileys now, I see the pop-up window next to my typing cursor all the time and I cannot hit ENTER key as it always inserts the smiley instead :(
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44


    ...with you as shadowdancer that leaves 2 spots.
    You can alternate these spots depending on quests if you like which is one option.
    ...
    If the choice is between a fighter or monk - then a fighter is more versatile - as you get to use a greater selection of weapons.

    For me it in terms of fighters it would be: Mazzy > Keldorn >Minsc > Rassad >Valygar

    In terms of NPCs that I would take with me: Minsc > Mazzy or Rassad or Valygar > Keldorn

    Of course you could be radical and take Jan with you or even Yoshimo (bounty hunter is always nice for to have along).

    The final spot goes to Imoen if you decide to take her along when you get her back but if you don't pick someone you like and bring them along instead. This 6th person should be someone that can be helpful either as a 3rd melee fighter or using ranged weapon or perhaps spells.

    Thank you @magisensei for your comment!
    - The idea of alternating characters is kinda new to me, I thought you should decide on your party early and change only in pre-planned or really dire situations.
    - The question of Imoen is also unanswered for me, it seems cruel in terms of role-playing not to take her, but I feel like I do not need her. But I do not know the story, I have no idea when she pops back, so maybe it will not seem cruel then.
    - I know Yoshimo will betray the main character one day so I avoid him, also not sure if two thieves are necessary, but he is a bounty hunter...
    Sharguild said:


    Mind, I also like sea-urchin Sushi, so don't go by my tastes (wink).

    @Sharguild Stay with your sea-urchin sushi <3
    And do not let anyone tell you you're wrong there.

    <blockquote class="UserQuote">
    deltago said:


    Start with
    Jaheria, Minsc, Yoshimo.

    Then add Aerie.

    That gives you two tanks (Jah and Minsc), two divine (Jah and Aerie), two thieves (you and yosh - allowing you to min max stealth while yoshimo picks up the other thieving skills till you level) and one arcane (aerie).

    When chapter 2 starts, you can take that last slot and rotate the other NPCs while you do their quests (Nalia for De'Arnise Keep, Korgan's Book, Keldorn and the unseeing eye etc).

    If you are not going to romance Jaheria, I suggest (in my humble opinion) to drop her for one of the other companions you enjoyed using while doing their quest.

    Aerie and Minsc work well together and Yoshimo has a good lore right in the middle of the game, however, you can drop him for Neera once your thieving skills are up to par.

    Leaving you with
    Shadowdancer
    Jaheria (romance)
    Minsc
    Aerie
    Neera
    Rotating wildcard.

    Or two tanks, two divines, two arcanes, one thief and one flavour.



    Thank you @deltago for your response.
    - Well, I can Neera pretyy fats in the game, why shoul I wait?
    - Is Yoshimo a good idea? There would be two thieves (yet he is a bounty hunter...) and I knwo somsehting about him betraying the main character someday (this is my first game I intend to finish one day, so I do not know the story first-person wise).
    - I would like to keep Jaheira for her overall great performance and her character. Whom would you drop her for?
    - The idea of a rotating wildcard is new to me, I thought we should settle on a party ASAP and change only when it only in dire circumstances.

    A question for everyone:

    If I decide to change my party mid-game, or really anytime, isn't it bad in terms of character levels? Like my party members will be like levels 15 and the new one like 11?
    But I see your point, it opens up many quests, but e.g. you can do d'Arnise Hold without Nalia...

  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    And what about Wilson the Bear? As a tank?
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    obilie said:


    If I decide to change my party mid-game, or really anytime, isn't it bad in terms of character levels? Like my party members will be like levels 15 and the new one like 11?

    After the 2.0 patch NPCs' XP is determined by your main character's XP and goes in waves:

    250k
    500k
    750k
    1mln

    So if you're a 15th level fighter (like in the co-op, and have 1,5mln XP ), those who join you will have 1mln XP, i.e. 500k XP less.

    If you're a 15th level thief (a shadowdancer and have 1,1mln XP), those who join you will have 1mln XP, i.e. 100k XP less.
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    And Haer'Dalis? Never saw or played any bards, so that might be an interesting change to the traditional 2 tanks, 2 mages, 1 cleric, 1 thief combo.
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    Yes you can do most of the quest without the NPC that is directly involved usually - but it feels weird to not bring them along so that they can participate in their quest - therefore the alternating 6th spot for quest NPC. Of course it is easy to justify to yourself - my team is a cohesive team and its better to keep your employer away from the danger otherwise who is going to pay us for our service and retell tales for everyone in taverns all along the Sword Coast and make us famous heroes or maybe infamous heroes.

    NPCs should level appropriately providing that you have not spoken to them before.

    Ah Wilson if only he would comment more often :open_mouth:
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    Thank you!

    So Wilson and Haer'Dalis are good ideas? I guess not when nobody has recommended them so far.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    Wilson can be a lot of fun depending on your play style and objectives, but he's not a tank. He was designed to mirror the role of a kensai. He hits hard, but he's easy to hit. He requires a lot of micromanagement to work effectively. Personally, he's my favourite character in the series, but he's not for everyone.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    edited May 2016
    Haer'Dalis can be an amazing tank, but he's another character that requires a lot of management. If you're a player who doesn't get bored with constantly setting up buffs, then he should definitely be considered. There are so many good choices, and all of the posters here have made good suggestions. It might just come down to play style, or whether you like their personalities.

    One more thing to consider: you don't necessarily have to fill 5 or 6 slots. You can try running a smaller party for something different. The initial combo you suggested mirrors one of my favourite tactical party set ups: Jaheira (tank and summons), thief pc, Aerie (cleric and secondary mage), and Neera as your primary mage. Those four can rock the house on their own.
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    @OrlonKronsteen Thank you! I guess I'll go with Mazzy and Keldorn since this will be my proper first time.
    I do not enjoy Keldorn's personality but this comes only to me remembering him from the sewers. They say Anomen is even more full of himself..? Is he a tank?
    .
    Wow those 4 only? I am not sure, can I handle it? Is it better to have a smaller party?
    Or maybe plus Mazzy to be 5 of us?

    Thinking of those 4 only for out co-op game as well, but I think we would not be able to finish Haer'Dalis' theatre quest so early in the game, the monsters were insane. Or the hard party in sewers where you encounter Keldorn, we went there 6 of us (my partner as a Dwarven defender tank, me as a Shadowdancer, Jaheira, Aerie, Viconia and Jan) just almost fresh from Irenus' dungeon and it was really hard.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    @obilie Mazzy and Keldorn are great choices and effective characters. Anomen is a beast of a tank, but I find his personality unbearable so I never play him. You'd have to give him a try and see.

    Yes, you can kick butt with just four. I'm not suggesting you do so on this play-through, but just putting it out there as food for thought. I find that the smaller my party is the stronger it gets, because you level up faster. Sometimes it's more challenging at first - and using Jaheira as your tank would be a great example of this. In the early game she hasn't got her primary defensive buff, nor her summons, and she doesn't hit very hard. But once she's up a few levels and has acquired some nice gear, the dynamic changes. She becomes very powerful. Other characters, like Anomen, are strong right out of the gate. For now, if you're new to it, having a powerful melee fighter on the front lines (like Keldorn or Mazzy) is a great idea. You can swap characters out, too. So you could use Anomen for awhile, until you get Keldorn, etc.. So many different strategies and party combos: that's what makes this game so re-playable and so darn addictive. Enjoy the ride, my friend!

    The fights you mention are indeed tough. There are all kinds of approaches for winning battles. You can either figure them out on your own which is fun, or you can comb forums for advice, which is also fun in its own way. Nothing wrong with leaving an area that is too tough and coming back later. Sometimes you have to do that.

  • Clumsy_DwarfClumsy_Dwarf Member Posts: 112
    As others have mention, Jaheria can make a good meat shield. You can give her Belm +2 for an extra attack per round and she is fairly good. It can be a bit of an equipment sink but she is actually a good tank.

    So with her in the group, You can dump Aerie or Viconia. I like Aerie a bit better because of the Robe of Vecna. With that (mage exclusive) and the Amulet of Power, you can cut the cast time of her healing spells by 5 making her a powerful combat medic.

    I would skip on Anomen because he is essentially Jaheria but a cleric instead of a druid. They will be competing for the same equipment.

    The 3 fighter types left that I would consider are..
    Minsc - Good RP (especially with Aerie). You can take him dual wield or 2H weapons.
    Keldorn - Kills mages...well. Holy Avenger. Good personal quest.
    Mazzy - Great "archer" as well as a secondary tank. I would take her as a 3rd fighter that snipes but can jump into melee if needed.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Rotating early doesn't hurt as much as it would in the first game because it takes a substantial amount of xp to level and, depending on choices, you maybe forced to drop certain characters.

    Mages (like Neera) are the best to pick up late since any xp differential can be made by scribing scrolls. Drop the rest of the party and have them stand around as you write and rewrite every scroll you've come across.

    And after Chapter 2, you are going to be pretty much locked into a party for the rest of the game so its not like you are rotating through out either.

    Yoshimo is a good idea until you get your stealth, detect traps and open locks to a high enough skill. As a shadow dancer you may not be able to cover all of them at the start. Ideally you drop Yoshimo for Imoen (and if this is your first full play through it is what I reccomend story/lore wise) but dropping him for Neera is also feasable.

    Rotating NPCs also allows you to find out which ones you are comfortable playing with and allows your play style work. You CAN lock in right away, but you miss so much the game offers if you do.
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    Ah ...Wilson is not really a good choice - I was trying to be funny... Wilson is a bear so that means he cannot equip anything and can only drink healing potions. He is powerful if he hits but he will lag behind in levels a bit and in general his AC is not that great although it does improve, he is not a tank. If you have a powerful team with a good tank and you feel like being a bit silly and dragging a bear around then give it a try but mostly its for those that find it interesting to have a bear companion.

    If you take Wilson one of the strange things is that no one comments on an obvious wild bear walking into a bar or building or roaming through out the city without a leash - of course you could always pawn him off as familiar if anyone asked but thats a tall tale to tell. :*
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    @OrlonKronsteen and @Clumsy_Dwarf thank you very much for your insightful answers, it feels very nice to be able to ask for help in such a kind game community :) I shall try them all and see, but I guess if Anomen irritates so many players, I may not be an exception.

    I am sorry that Mazzy may not be a primary fighter but as Jaheira will grow into it, I should be okay.
    I have seen Minsc quite a few times because I have started the game several times since I was a teen and never stuck enough long to be absorbed (plus as a 1š year old it was too hard) so I saw Minsc all the time because of the Irenicus dungeon so I am thrilled to welcome Neera and new characters. Even Hexxat but she is evil :( and I think I like being good plus the game is geared for good parties.
    Maybe it could be 5 of us, just plus Mazzy. I'll see.
    deltago said:


    Yoshimo is a good idea until you get your stealth, detect traps and open locks to a high enough skill. As a shadow dancer you may not be able to cover all of them at the start. Ideally you drop Yoshimo for Imoen (and if this is your first full play through it is what I reccomend story/lore wise) but dropping him for Neera is also feasable.

    Rotating NPCs also allows you to find out which ones you are comfortable playing with and allows your play style work. You CAN lock in right away, but you miss so much the game offers if you do.

    Thank you @deltago for you reply, I will consider rotating to enjoy the game more. The thing is, and I do not wish to sound conceited, but since this is BG2, my thief skills are pretty awesome for a new fresh character - I can hide in plain sight almost 100 percent of the times and my pick locks is 90 and find traps is 100 which is already enough for the whole game right? Maybe pick locks 100 too? So I feel he might be redundant.
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    You can always add Hexxat to a good party - she is only evil because she is a vampire her persona is not evil unlike Dorn or Korgan. The only real problem with keeping Hexxat is she doesn't mix well with lawful good NPCs as they have a problem with her being a vampire - Hexxat has no conflict with them
    - Amonmen and Keldorn and even Mazzy will get into conflict with her but then again some get into it with Viconia, Dorn, and even Edwin as well


    NPCs conflicts is one of the things that make BG so great.

  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    edited May 2016
    @magisensei Wow that is indeed a very interesting idea, but do I need her since my main is a Shadowdancer? Wow.... but really. I do really like her from the little interaction that I've had with her, she is badass, she is mysterious, she will romance girls, she is intriguing. I like her and Viconia precisely for the thing of being hated just for who they are, I feel like I can sympathise with them, I find it unjust - Viconia was meant to be burned just for being a drow. This is I guess what you've talking about guys, that you just find characters in the game you'd like to be with and "grow" with them, share the story.

    But there has to be something evil about Hexxat, no? Since she possessed the girl and killed her. Does not she have, at least lore-wise, a preference for a party? For party's deeds and reputation? Does not she prefer evil ones? She cannot be just a pawn right.

    So Aerie is a no-no with Hexxat then.

    So you purposefully avoid avoiding conflicts :D ? Even knowing they will fight or leave taking items with them? Sure, it is much more organic yet you lose a lot.
  • magisenseimagisensei Member Posts: 316
    edited May 2016
    Aerie has a small problem with Hexxat but not enough that it will actually trouble you any. I have both in my group since the start of the game - I picked both of them up nearly at the same time.

    Nope I don't purposely avoid conflicts - sometimes I deliberately put them in - I usually take the quest giver with me on their quest if there is a NPC and keep them for a while - having conflict is part of the game with NPC - I try to minimize metagaming as much as possible so I don't avoid conflicts; just like I don't avoid rep point quests - although I really don't remember which ones give those in BG2 so I go with the flow of the story.

    As for Hexxat and rep - my team currently has 18 rep and Hexxat hasn't said a word about it - I am not sure what will happen when we reach 19 (getting a rep point is much more spread out in BG2 unlike BG1 without looking it up I really don't know who will give one and really was surprised I had 18 at the moment).

    Yes drinking Clara was "evil" and if you search the site there will be a half million discussions on whether or not she is really evil BUT here are a few ideas: vampires are evil so she is evil; what does evil actually mean? all undead are classified as evil but you are not going to exorcise the little boy ghost in the graveyard. Yes Hexxat killed someone (and really how clean are your hands) but you have no idea the context of the killing unless you are willing to talk to her about it - I won't spoil it for you.

    Hexxat will fit in with an evil group easily (although she will make a few comments) and will fit in a neutral group easily and even a good group as long as there are no lawful good NPCs. Of course she was made to be an evil thief as there are none in BG2 so you can be an evil group doing really evil deeds without worrying about your thief leaving due to low rep or using mods.

    Do you need Hexxat since you are a shadowdancer - not during the mid or late game but during the early part of the game (chapter 2) another thief might be helpful. As a shadowdancer your primary stat will be hide in shadow and move silent (you want this as high as possible in order to disappear at will over 100+ in both) - and that means all your points (only 20 per level) will go into for a few levels (until you can get enough magical gear that helps with hiding) - leaving you with less points for other things until later. So having someone that can easily find traps, open locks and even set traps is a plus in the early part of the game. I always liked a few thieves on the team if they are specialized in some way. Of course you don't need to bring Hexxat to cover these other skills, Jan easily fills in any spot of the extra thief as well and he's fun to bring a long as well. Of course if you've played through BG1 and imported your PC into BG2 then you will have enough points for everything in general but bringing Yoshimo for a quest or two can help but then again I like to ambush people (using traps) if given the opportunity to naturally do it in the game/story and I like to bring Jan just for the fun of it.

    In a part of my current run I had Hexxat, Yoshimo, and Jan with me.
  • OrlonKronsteenOrlonKronsteen Member Posts: 905
    edited May 2016
    Conflicts can indeed be fun to watch. It can be a pain when an NPC leaves but sometimes it's worth it just to see the drama. Not all characters leave, though. You just have to experiment and find out which ones (or read the forums). Sometimes they just snipe at each other. Sometimes it's a fun challenge to try and keep a mixed group together, eg. having Viconia as a cleric in a good party. However, the reputation system can make this a real pain as evil characters will leave when your rep gets too high, and vice versa. This is really hard to manage if your PC is good because the game keeps knocking your rep up upon completing quests, and it's hard from a role playing perspective to do things that knock it back down. The tweaks mod has a component (Happy Patch, I believe) that prevents characters leaving over reputation, so you might want to consider that. I think it still works with 2.2 but you'd have to check to make sure.
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    edited May 2016
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44


    Nope I don't purposely avoid conflicts - sometimes I deliberately put them in - I usually take the quest giver with me on their quest if there is a NPC and keep them for a while - having conflict is part of the game with NPC - I try to minimize metagaming as much as possible so I don't avoid conflicts; just like I don't avoid rep point quests - although I really don't remember which ones give those in BG2 so I go with the flow of the story.

    As for Hexxat and rep - my team currently has 18 rep and Hexxat hasn't said a word about it - I am not sure what will happen when we reach 19 (getting a rep point is much more spread out in BG2 unlike BG1 without looking it up I really don't know who will give one and really was surprised I had 18 at the moment).

    Thank you @magisensei - I think I should avoid metagaming as well, already I am picking up heroes, sniffing them and judging them, but I do so here, online, without having met them in game. Without really going in the world and seeing what it offers.

    Thank you @OrlonKronsteen as well, I shall see where this leads me. Without metagaming (yet I already know Keldorn is a darn great magic dispelling missile :( ), learning the game by playing, seeing why and who is hit more, how to solve it. It is just I have so little free time that learning the game seems hard, it indeed is a hard game, but I love it.

    Thank you @Nuin, will read :)
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    @obilie

    For me a totaly balanced party is made of:

    1- a pure arcane spellcaster, which will be the key character during primary boss fights.
    You have Neera, she's suited to the role. But you don't need two of them, if you play well, once your arcane spellcaster has done his Time Stop, there is not enough left alive to justify another one in the party to act

    2- a thief, which takes in charge traps and locks
    You play a Shadowdancer, it's great. And even more than you need for thievery needs

    3- a healer, that will restore the hp of you party during rest
    Jaheira can fit, her only weakness being to be unable to restore drained levels. It is not inconcievable for you to want a true cleric, but not mandatory

    4- a tank, which is the character which will soak the spell and damage of the other kind of opponent
    So, let me be clear: if you don't have a PC tank, only two NPC can take the role: Rasaad and Haer'dalis.
    By the chapter 8, the opponents will gain such insance THAC0 that only the insane AC score that Rasaad only can reach or Hear'dalis' mirror image+stoneskin will be able to face
    Add to this that the tank is also the character which get hit by the main part of opponent's spells, and you know that your tank also need a magic defense, which means Rasaad's Magic Resistance, or Haer'Dalis defensive spells

    5- Two additionnal physical strikers to help to clean weaklings
    On this part, the little Mazzy is one of my favorite for a good-alignment party.
    She's the only good-aligned pure fighter NPC, meaning she is the only one able to use the Crom Fraeyr to its fullest potential, even if it will take a long moment to raise her proefficiencies to Grand Mastery for this.
    Minsc and Keldorn are other good choices for this alignment

    So, with your 'fixed' characters, I'll recommand:

    - Your shadowdancer
    - Neera
    - Jaheira
    - Rasaad
    - Mazzy
    - Keldorn or Minsc
  • obilieobilie Member Posts: 44
    Dear @Moonheart thank you for this!

    My only two concerns are:

    1.) I love having more than just one arcane caster (I love magic), is the combo Neera + Aerie really wrong? Also because fo the fact, as you say, Jaheira might not be the best suited single cleric in the party. Also, others have already mentioned 2 mages are a great idea for a party.

    2.) Isn't Keldorn a viable tank? Many players have already suggested him in this thread. There has been the debate that figher VS monk - that fighter wins as a tank.

    So I think:
    -My Shadowdancer
    -Neera
    -Aerie
    -Jaheira
    -Keldorn or Rasaad
    -Mazzy or Minsc or somebody else (Haer'Dalis or Valygar or Anomen...)
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    obilie said:

    1.) I love having more than just one arcane caster (I love magic), is the combo Neera + Aerie really wrong? Also because fo the fact, as you say, Jaheira might not be the best suited single cleric in the party. Also, others have already mentioned 2 mages are a great idea for a party.

    Wrong, no. Just probably useless.

    You must realize that means to be dual-classed for Aerie is that she will be always late in term of spell power when played into a party. It means that her arcane spellcasting progress twice lower that the one of Neera.

    To give a simple exemple: When Neera will reach epic spells and start to cast Time Stop + Improved Alacrity and kill ALL ennemies in battlefield in a single round, during that round, Aerie's best shot will be to summon one Mordenkanein's Sword, which will then appear on the battlefield when there is no opponent left for it to hit.

    Mage/Clerics are insanely powerful in small party set-ups, or solo plays, since they won't share the xp with others, but in a full party they tend to be rather weak compared to a normal mage, and even more compared to Edwin, Wild Mages and Sorcerers. They need about 6 millions xp to reach level 9 spells, which is an amount you reach in a 6-men party only when you reach the very end of the game.

    So, when you'll have ended Neera's Time Stop, Aerie will just have nothing to do with her arcane spells in 95% of the game. She will only be here to throw a few heals and buff, something Viconia will do better.
    But she won't hinder you, she will just not truly help you either.
    obilie said:

    2.) Isn't Keldorn a viable tank? Many players have already suggested him in this thread. There has been the debate that figher VS monk - that fighter wins as a tank.

    Not everyone with agree on the same thing on the matter, it depends a lot of your strategies. Monks are tank who are strong against magic, people like Keldorn/Dorn will be stronger against physical damage...
    So:
    - If you take a tank weak to magic, you need a party about to disable spellcasters efficiently and a true Cleric for Chaotic Commands.
    - If you take a tank strong against magic, like Rasaad, you need a party able to dispatch physical bruiser fast enough

    I'm myself a partisan of simplicity: my party is made in a way that they my companions will dispatch most of the foes only by letting their IA do... and when I see my Rasaad can't sustain the physical damage, then I have my main spellcast cast Time Stop and just nuke the battlefield entierly
    obilie said:

    So I think:
    -My Shadowdancer
    -Neera
    -Aerie
    -Jaheira
    -Keldorn or Rasaad
    -Mazzy or Minsc or somebody else (Haer'Dalis or Valygar or Anomen...)

    There is another thing you can want to consider when you build a team, on top of roles: those are how you are going to use the "exceptional" items of the game.
    Some items in that game are just almost too good to not be used. You'll feel sad if you get your hand on something like the Crom Fraeyr, but have nobody that can use it to its fullest

    - Your Shadowdancer will be very fitting to use the Dagger of Stars, the Cloak of Whispers and the Aslyfund's Armor
    - Neera will be the best fitted to recieve the Staff of Magi and the Robe of Vecna, leaving Aerie with no really good stuff to recieve
    - Jaheira is a killer with the Fire Tooth
    - Keldorn can be used as a tank, but personnaly, just thinking him not using Carsomyr make me cry
    - Rasaad must take the Bracers of Crushing, but who ever doubted this?

    Now, there is a few killer items you would want to think about, like Crom Frayer, the most destructive weapon of all the game.

    Crom Fraeyr is best used in dual wield with Belm, on a character able to get a Grand Mastery in warhammer, so a Fighter. There is only one good-aligned Fighter, and this is why I recommand you Mazzy, even if she takes a long time to raise this mastery, plus the two weapon fighting one... otherwise you can give it to a multi-classed fighter like Amoenem, but it'll need also the Bracers of Extraordinay Weapon Expertise that I perfer myself to give to Jaheira (personal tastes only, you're fine if you want to make Amonem use the Crom Fraeyr)

    This is an interesting topic in fact, I'm going to open a thread to ask people which are the 6 best weapons of the game, and the NPC that can use them the better.
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