How's the promised Mizhena rewrite coming along?

TrudeauIsSanta

Or is Mizhena Saga canon now?

kamuizin

Be careful dude, the simple mention of her name is a huge taboo in this forum. If you keep this too long, be ready to be called of chauvinist, racist, prejudicer among much more ists and ers possible.

To avoid flame, say "right for womans!" at every end phrase, "black power" at every post and "more monority content" from time to time.

Ps: i would like more content for that character too, specially some easter eggs with the girdle of masculinity/femininity, if a party keep it from early BG foward.

TrudeauIsSanta

The girdle turns her into Austin Powers.

kamuizin

TrudeauIsSanta said:

The girdle turns her into Austin Powers.

That would be a sight!!

Fardragon

Now the loonies have left there is no one left who cares.

TrentOster

The Mizhena revision is completed and is planned as part of the 2.4 update. Again, setting expectations, the changes are not massive in scope.

-Trent

Krotos

Every time I look at the promote rating, I keep thinking that it's a middle finger...

O_Bruce

Krotos said:

Every time I look at the promote rating, I keep thinking that it's a middle finger...

Same. I Has impression that @JuliusBorisov flipped me off.

About Mizhena. Let it go already people. You did already more damage than necessary.

Grum

Leave non issues alone. Get iOS out instead!

TrudeauIsSanta

TrentOster said:

The Mizhena revision is completed and is planned as part of the 2.4 update. Again, setting expectations, the changes are not massive in scope.

-Trent

Thanks.

You wouldn't happen to have backups of the Mizhena Saga stuff, would you? I'm missing Episode 6 and the Harrison Ford bit.

TrudeauIsSanta

And Episode 3. Maybe I'll do a public plea here...

Grum

I literally have no idea what you are talking about

kamuizin

Grum said:

I literally have no idea what you are talking about

2

Ayiekie

Thanks for the update, Trent, even in the unfortunate context.

Aaezil

What is a Mizena rewrite? SoD is awesome btw

former_customer

Fardragon said:

Now the loonies have left there is no one left who cares.

Pretty much. I'd say that we "loonies" who won't spend money on feminist/gender/sexuality (wow, thats a pretty good multi-class right there) deconstructionist philosophy stuffed into our entertainment have pretty much made our decision, and the people who don't mind it already have the game. Frankly, I'd respect Beamdog more for keeping the character and general tone of the expansion as they wrote it. I certainly don't see a rewrite of Mizhena affecting much of anything at this point.

Anyway, this is a dead issue. I don't think it would have made much difference six minutes after release, much less six months.

xzar_monty

@former_customer: You actually bring up an important point, and I know it's one that really divides opinions. I personally like entertainment that challenges me. In fact, if there's anything I particularly dislike in entertainment, it's the status quo values (I never watch television, I hardly ever watch any new movies etc., because they tend to be beyond awful simply because of this; there's nothing challenging in there. And yes, I know the paradox here: if I don't know what's in them, how can I say what's in them? Well, I've already seen enough and I'm perfectly willing to miss the few gems that are possibly out there).

And then there's the other camp, the people who like their entertainment extremely easy. Nothing wrong with that.

Mizhena was an attempt to challenge the player, and I applaud that. But there's no getting around the fact that it was also an abject failure, very badly written.

shawne

former_customer said:

I'd say that we "loonies" who won't spend money on feminist/gender/sexuality (wow, thats a pretty good multi-class right there) deconstructionist philosophy stuffed into our entertainment have pretty much made our decision, and the people who don't mind it already have the game.

*facepalm* This again.

You realize Viconia's whole storyline is about racism, right? You realize the first choice you have in the character selection screen being "men and women are equal" is a feminist statement, right? You realize there's a whole bunch of content in the original games that deal with sexuality and gender, right?

If you've actually played the original games, you already know Mizhena isn't doing anything BioWare didn't do first. Enough with the hypocrisy.

xzar_monty said:

And then there's the other camp, the people who like their entertainment extremely easy. Nothing wrong with that.

The problem, though, is that the people who like their entertainment extremely easy aren't content to just find material that suits their needs - they have to come to places like this and complain that they're not being pandered to, and that something's being shoved down their throat as if they somehow don't have any choice in the forms of entertainment they want to pursue.

That's why every single mention of Mizhena leads into the exact same conversation over and over again: because it's still about how Beamdog is "forcing" people to buy into X/Y/Z. If someone doesn't like what they're seeing, change the damn channel and leave the rest of us alone already. Nobody cares.

batoor

Mizhena isn't Caelar nor part of the main storyline in any big capacity.. She functions as a temple and has some minor involvement with some sidequests. How on earth that is perceived as ''forced'' down anyones throat or as some agenda is something I can't relate to.

megamike15

yeah people went way overboard. might be due to the line being voiced that set everyone off.

former_customer

shawne said:

former_customer said:

I'd say that we "loonies" who won't spend money on feminist/gender/sexuality (wow, thats a pretty good multi-class right there) deconstructionist philosophy stuffed into our entertainment have pretty much made our decision, and the people who don't mind it already have the game.

*facepalm* This again.

You realize Viconia's whole storyline is about racism, right? You realize the first choice you have in the character selection screen being "men and women are equal" is a feminist statement, right? You realize there's a whole bunch of content in the original games that deal with sexuality and gender, right?

If you've actually played the original games, you already know Mizhena isn't doing anything BioWare didn't do first. Enough with the hypocrisy.

Well, I differentiate between simple, rational statements of equality and the absurd excesses of third wave feminism. But you seem to be responding (histrionically) to something I'm not saying. I'm not calling for Beamdog to do or change anything; I'm just not going to buy anything that reflects the philosophy and attitudes of Amber Scott.

I can't really apologize for not spending my money on a game I don't want to play. If there's only one guy who thinks like I do, then Beamdog has lost one purchase (which I had intended to make before I read about the narrative tone). If there's a bazillion of us, and we would otherwise have picked up SoD, then I guess they have a problem.

I think every writer should produce the sort of work she wants to produce. I think Ms. Scott's agenda is forced and unnatural, and I think her read of BG1 characters is shallow and unfortunate. If that's what she wants to write, though, I think she should have at it. If Beamdog wants its name on it, I think they should put it there.

I don't think Amber Scott or Beamdog owe me anything, but I don't owe them anything, either.

TheArtisan

Because this was the work of one specific boogeyman with a bone to pick with society and totally not a collaboration of efforts, right? I wonder who's the really shallow one here.

jinxed75

batoor said:

Mizhena isn't Caelar nor part of the main storyline in any big capacity.. She functions as a temple and has some minor involvement with some sidequests. How on earth that is perceived as ''forced'' down anyones throat or as some agenda is something I can't relate to.

Some people have seen the series as a means of escapism from a world they don't agree with. Folks who don't condone the ideas of a modern society start going mad, when they are confronted with what they despise in a computer game they used to like, be it as minor as Mizhena.
But as many others have said, best to ignore them, they cannot be reasoned with anyway.

former_customer

Artemius_I said:

Because this was the work of one specific boogeyman with a bone to pick with society and totally not a collaboration of efforts, right? I wonder who's the really shallow one here.

I don't know what you're getting at. I mentioned Ms. Scott and Beamdog separately, because I recognize different roles in the process of creating the game. My understanding, though, is that Ms. Scott was the writer responsible for the theme and tone. She certainly gave that impression with her own statements. In fact, she seemed to welcome whatever controversy her writing might generate.

My comment about shallowness was directed specifically at her interpretation of some of the BG1 characters. I don't know anything about her personally, aside from a little bit of her political beliefs.

shawne

former_customer said:

Artemius_I said:

Because this was the work of one specific boogeyman with a bone to pick with society and totally not a collaboration of efforts, right? I wonder who's the really shallow one here.

I don't know what you're getting at. I mentioned Ms. Scott and Beamdog separately, because I recognize different roles in the process of creating the game. My understanding, though, is that Ms. Scott was the writer responsible for the theme and tone. She certainly gave that impression with her own statements. In fact, she seemed to welcome whatever controversy her writing might generate.

My comment about shallowness was directed specifically at her interpretation of some of the BG1 characters. I don't know anything about her personally, aside from a little bit of her political beliefs.

Your "understanding" leaves much to be desired in the way of facts, I'm afraid. Amber Scott co-wrote with Andrew Foley. They were supervised by Phil Daigle. Employed by Trent Oster. Approved by Nathan Stewart and Wizards of the Coast. This whole "cherchez la femme" narrative needs to be put to rest once and for all.

Ayiekie

former_customer said:

I don't know what you're getting at. I mentioned Ms. Scott and Beamdog separately, because I recognize different roles in the process of creating the game. My understanding, though, is that Ms. Scott was the writer responsible for the theme and tone. She certainly gave that impression with her own statements. In fact, she seemed to welcome whatever controversy her writing might generate.

My comment about shallowness was directed specifically at her interpretation of some of the BG1 characters. I don't know anything about her personally, aside from a little bit of her political beliefs.

You don't even know who was the lead writer on the game you're complaining about the writing of. You have no idea if Amber Scott had anything to do with the character. You don't care to know, either. You just know you have a conveniently female boogeyman to blame for things you have been told to hate in a game you've never played.

"Feminist/gender/sexuality deconstructionist philosophy"... because a trans character existed and Jaheira wasn't constantly played as a nagging shrew of a wife for comedy. There are a few games I've played that had what could be called "feminist/gender/sexuality deconstructionist philosophy". LOL SAFANA ACTUALLY HAS A CHARACTER NOW isn't it.

And Beamdog isn't expanding on Mizhena to please you or your legion of chan/kia clones.

AndrewFoley

former_customer said:

My understanding, though, is that Ms. Scott was the writer responsible for the theme and tone. She certainly gave that impression with her own statements. In fact, she seemed to welcome whatever controversy her writing might generate.

My comment about shallowness was directed specifically at her interpretation of some of the BG1 characters.

Your understanding is incorrect, but I can't imagine being told how and why is going to change your mind at this point, so I won't bother trying.

kamuizin

Wow! @AndrewFoley isn't in the staff anymore? Just expressing surprise here, cos you where there since the begin.

Anyway, this thread take longer than i expected to drawn the minority fanatics of the forum. While @former_customer 1° post arguments make a poor case , some things here deserve some answer:

shawne said:

former_customer said:

I'd say that we "loonies" who won't spend money on feminist/gender/sexuality (wow, thats a pretty good multi-class right there) deconstructionist philosophy stuffed into our entertainment have pretty much made our decision, and the people who don't mind it already have the game.

*facepalm* This again.

You realize Viconia's whole storyline is about racism, right? You realize the first choice you have in the character selection screen being "men and women are equal" is a feminist statement, right? You realize there's a whole bunch of content in the original games that deal with sexuality and gender, right?

If you've actually played the original games, you already know Mizhena isn't doing anything BioWare didn't do first. Enough with the hypocrisy.

Just some examples:

belmin gergas (The Elf Hater) In waukeen's Promenade.
Patricia (Feminazy) as Bartender of the Den of Seven Vales Tavern
Shar-Teel (A very dangeours Feminazy) as joinable character in BG1

And you say Baldur's Gate (original game) is totally focused in raise minority rights? Hahaha!!!

Viconia makes a great story about Racism, yes, but isn't a: look, a poor drow elf, so good and innocent that everyone should feel ashammed of their conduct against that poor evil drow elf that will attempt to influence any decision of Charname for the most bloodlust solution possible!!! No, she has a very depth work on her personality and interaction with the world. Keldorn try to kill her by biased behavior and is still recognized as lawful good, more, he will not even lose paladin hood status if he kills her.

Things aren't black and white. The X-Men from marvel also did a marvelous work because they didn't try to dump the message: If your belong to any minority everything you do is right and everything done against you is wrong.

Now yo can go and drop a big post saying how i am a lot of "ists" for disagree with the absolute truths that come from your holy minority mouth, so you can gather all the likes (support) of ppl too afraid to stand up to the facist face of politicaly correct behavior.

semiticgoddess

@kamuizin: I've been following a lot of these threads over the months and I've only seen a single person get accused of being a bigot. Said person was explicitly saying that a certain group of people were all immoral and bad--which is in fact bigotry.

It's been three days since you posted in this thread. You can keep waiting as long as you like, but if you're expecting somebody to accuse you of being a bigot, you might be disappointed.

Also, that person posted many times on the same topic without ever being censored. They were even granted an entirely separate thread just to voice their grievances. You can keep waiting as long as you like, but if you're expecting somebody to censor you or silence you for your views, you might be disappointed.

As a mod, I can delete threads, edit posts without consent, and ban users. And yet, this thread remains here, your posts remain untouched, and your account in untouched. This is because we only take action when people are actually breaking the site rules, and posting unpopular opinions is not against those rules. You can keep waiting as long as you like, but if you're expecting the "fascist face of politically correct behavior" to show itself, you may be disappointed.

We do not enforce opinions here. That is not our policy. As long as people follow the site rules, they can (and have, and will) express whatever viewpoint they wish.

kamuizin

@semiticgod, then by all means lemme help the refreshment of everyone memory on the subject:

here plain and simple.

The post that invoked that behavior was this one.

So, following the very site rules, you mentioned, i complied for a moderator to take action in this following post, but curiously, nothing has happened until now.

The funny part is that, in the end, i'm not even against the content, but "my request" of more content apparently offend some ppl, and then, the eternal phrase used in this forum since 2012, when the bi/homossexual romances where announced to be implemented, "don't like, don't use/play/choose" suddently isn't valid anymore.

"the facist face of politically correct" already appeared many times in the forum on the last years, but insight, sometimes, can be a selective thing to have. As Edmund Burke said: those who don't know history (an 2012 thread) are doomed to repeat it.


obs: just to prevent a misunderstand, in the previous post, my comment to AndrewFoley had nothing to do with the rest of the post content, that was directed to a totally different person.

Ayiekie

kamuizin said:

Things aren't black and white. The X-Men from marvel also did a marvelous work because they didn't try to dump the message: If your belong to any minority everything you do is right and everything done against you is wrong.

Because when Mizhena accuses you of stealing and hurls insults at you for trying to ask a simple question, it shows she is a perfect and unsullied angel, just like Viconia.

Not a single person posting on these boards holds the position you are bravely refuting.

kamuizin said:

Now yo can go and drop a big post saying how i am a lot of "ists" for disagree with the absolute truths that come from your holy minority mouth, so you can gather all the likes (support) of ppl too afraid to stand up to the facist face of politicaly correct behavior.

Feel free to offer a coherent justification for what "fascism" and "politically correct behaviour" have in common, even in your warped view of what the latter entails.

Also, if you'd like to get a better response to your posts, you could a) stop using the term "feminazi", which is a political buzzword, b) stop acting like you're being persecuted because people disagree with you and you don't like what they say. You're supposed to be against politically correct behaviour, remember?