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  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2017
    And with that settled, back to what I promised. I didn't know beamdog made a promise to flesh out Mizhena very early on, seems they took the criticism on board fast. I Found this in an article on Niche Gamer:
    "One interesting thing to note concerning Siege of Dragonspear and its story is that Beamdog stated that the transgendered character Mizhena was to receive an expanding of her background which would help her better fit into the game world’s lore, yet no such change has been made as of yet. Scott’s departure may make that promised change even less likely."

    I am not sure how much Mizhena is planned to be fleshed (I won't hold my breath though my guess is beamdog is intent on keeping all trans "minor"). Regardless for all of Amber's flaws I think fleshing/explaining a T-girl in lore would be something suitable for her style/talent. Too bad her agenda cared more about female "empowerment" than a good trans character.

    Speaking of which the good news with Amber gone is hopefully Mizhena won't be yet another "empowered" woman. I think the opposite (a low-self esteem, weak, anxious, Aerie-like-fragile woman) would be a refreshing change in SoD imo.

  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    Hopefully name change mizhena to ivor biggun to change the general mood. At least it would generate a few laughs.

  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    edited January 2017
    Pretty surprised no one has even mentioned the shamaness troll as some consider trolls asexual depending what rules edition your playing or some consider trolls to be ruled by 1 superior female.

    Can't remember what edition changes the trolls. The general rule applies. Kill it, kill it with fire!

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,772
    @Wesboi: M'Khiin is a goblin, not a troll.

  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    edited January 2017

    @Wesboi: M'Khiin is a goblin, not a troll.

    The trolls shamaness in the trolls cave....maybe u haven't got that far.

  • filcat88filcat88 Member Posts: 115


    "But the first part of SOD ( the one in those catacoms to defeat the last of Sarevok lietenants) happens just after Sarevok defeat. Then some time passes, quite some time actually, before the refugees and CA become a really problem for CHARNAME.

    So time-wise makes sense, imo"

    You are right about the first dungeon timing.
    But Imoen/Charname have a conversation that specifically says (paraphrased) in the palace.
    "I am so tired I could sleep for a week"
    Indicating that it is immediately afterwards.

    And all that about your stuff being in a chest? And your money being lost?
    What, you left the dungeon some time ago, didn't ask about your money (to live on) for a few weeks/months or sort out your belongings?
    Does that indicate a length of time between events in the first dungeon and the actual start of SOD?

    You walk outside the palace and BG is full to bursting with refugees which you have had no sign or indication of existing before.

    When you skip from the catacoms to the ducal palace, the narrative voice says that a tenday has passed.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,772
    @Wesboi: I remember the troll shaman now, though I don't know its relevance. It plays a small part in SoD; all I remember is a short dialogue and then killing it. Just like that troll shaman in Spellhold. And the numerous troll shamans in Icewind Dale 2.

  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 187
    edited January 2017
    Interesting, the starting SoD dungeon for me was just tedious. The Irenicus dungeon felt slightly more rewarding (but still no less annoying).

    I actually have a friend completely new to the BG world, bought it brand new in shop, then quit several minutes into the game before even finishing Irenicus dungeon he was just so annoyed lol. I am sure he would have felt the same if he was doing SoD dungeon instead it has the same tedious pointless feel to it. I wouldn't another dungeon-be-gone mod to remove the starting dungeon.

    However after the starting dungeon is were the game kicks off and becomes VERY immersive. It truly starts feeling "canon-like" as if you have just become the hero of Baldurs gate. I loved the way SoD upped Skie's character also it was very creative.

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,271
    Why is the Irenicus dungeon more rewarding for you? I'm curious. I don't particulary hate Irenicus Chateau, but it's a tad bit too long for my taste and the whole "steampunk" thing going on there is a pretty major turn-off for me personally. The thing I dislike with it too much is that no matter which character your bring, the dungeon plays out the same. So when I have created a new char, I want to get out there adventuring so that this unique character's traits can be put too good use, but in the dungeon it's just a few enemies and a couple of annoying running back and forth-quests (ctrl-J is king here).

    True, you do get that feeling, that's why I feel some of the side quests are a bit too lowly. I also like how they made it so that some ppl start to see the taint in you and fear you more than they love you. The heckling noble in the streets that you can choose to adress or not is one such great scene. I've understood this may have effects in the ending, but I've tried to refrain from reading any spoilers so far so don't know for sure.

    Hehe, yeah every scene with Skie in it just cracks me up, they are hilarious. She's such a snotty lil'brat and i love to hate her. Really well made that, really well made.

  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,147
    Vasculio said:

    I actually liked Irenicus's dungeon... it wasn't that long.

    Trying to think back to when I first played BG2.

    I remember thinking/worrying that BG2 was going to be completely different from BG, that everything I loved about BG was lost. That sense of loss, although it's for different reasons, (mainly worrying that the sequel was going to disappoint as so many sequels do), adds to the atmosphere.

    I hated it, but I think people forget that you are meant to hate it, so it works very well on that level. The sense of urgency to get out is created very well, you are running rather than exploring somewhere you chose to explore.

    It's a clever bit of game design for those who progressed from BG. It completely throws you off if you progressed from BG, from powerful to powerless, from a setting/game you were comfortable in, knew very well, to something very different (though that doesn't excuse the "steam punk").

    For new starters, it introduces combat ect. efficiently and quickly I would have thought and provides a hell of an incentive to keep going.

    But that does mean many playthroughs later it's impossible for it to work in those ways so it's just a bit miserable/boring.
    But I would never skip it, it's a part of the story.

  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    The game has notable flaws, but I still enjoyed the game, and would recommend it for the price.

  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    I would have actually paid a bit more for a slightly longer endgame sequence after Avernus. Maybe it was just me, but the darker circumstances that was mentioned in the BG2 intro was all over a bit too quickly for me.

  • neron25neron25 Member Posts: 1

    From what you are saying, the name translates as "man-wife" or "man-woman" into English from Russian?

    //Native Russian speaker

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,449

    Well, I'm a native Russian speaker too, so I don't agree with your comment.

    More importantly, now when you're a part of this community, please, read the Site rules and 1) be respectful to others 2) try to stay constructive in your comments 3) don't use profanity when posting.

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,619
    How is it? Fun and worth it.

  • TM5000TM5000 Member Posts: 14

    I have read some various reviews about this game. Is it a fun play or is it a let down? Next, I read that some writer is a "SJW" and there is some liberal notions that were put into the game, such as, gay and/or transgender characters? If that is true, is it annoyingly obvious or easily dismissed and not a hinder to enjoyment?

    It is fun to play. The graphics look great.

    Any liberal notions included in this game are not any more distracting the motivations and opinions presented by other NPCs.

    Many of them are 'on a mission' to set certain social injustices right in the name of their god.

    Even I play a Paladin or a good Cleric once in a while.

  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 187
    @Woolie_Wool You are assuming transgenderism is the only liberal notion forced into SoD. I found the blatant feminist agenda to be the worst of the Liberal notions. A trans minor npc is trivial and can be ignored, while altering known and loved female persona's to be more "empowered" really stood out like a sore thumb for me.

    The only character I agree with a strong liberal notion being forced upon is Viconia. Empowerment (and/or outright misandry) makes her character uniquely appealing and fits the lore of matriarchal dark elves.


    Back on topic do people here find the evil/jerk route to be better or worse than the goody-two-shoes route? I am about to have an "evil" play through of SoD, I am curious to see how it compares to my "good" play through.

  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    edited February 2017
    Hahaha, "feminist agenda"? The Forgotten Realms barely even have a patriarchy to fight against, but people like you assume it must, and that furthermore wanting to get rid of patriarchy is somehow wrong. No. Who's been so "altered"? Jaheira? She's never been particularly "feminine" according to the expectations of modern society--in her relationship with Khalid in BG1, she is clearly the one with the power. If anything, these "liberal" ideas actually are a fulfillment of what Ed Greenwood and the original BG writers originally intended but didn't always accomplish due to their inherent biases as a bunch of middle-class white male geeks (this is that "male privilege" everyone talks about).

    (I suppose it could be Dynaheir but I wouldn't know could never stand her gimmick for more than five minutes. If thou canst not even use thou correctly, thou shouldst not use it at all.)

    Also IMO being evil in almost all RPGs is completely unsatisfying, BG included. It's less about doing evil than doing good (because that's what almost all BG quests require) and occasionally killing a few peasants to replenish your evil meter. Lawful Good is not a lonely straight and narrow road full of temptations but the path of least resistance. To try to do evil PCs some justice, Obsidian had to write an entirely new game specifically designed to accommodate evil PCs (Tyranny).

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368

    I think when the creator of the entire Forgotten Realms setting gives Mizhena his explicit blessing, the first enchanted item you find in the original Baldur's Gate changes your gender, Edwina happened, and Elminster chose to live as a woman for a while because he wanted to know what it was like, Mizhena fits right in with the setting

    It's less the fact that Mizhena exists, and more how horribly hamfisted the dialogue is. First things first, to even GET the dialogue in question, you have to respond "your name is weird." Really? Forget that telling someone their name is weird is flat out rude, this is in game where EVERYONE has a weird name. Mizhena doesn't stand out at out all as all that weird. To follow that up, Mizhena goes in to the fact that she's transgendered to a complete stranger and goes off on her life story about how everyone realized she was a woman. The thing reads like a bad tumblr blog. She doesn't go in to why she became a cleric of tempus, or why she joined the flaming fist, but we got a wonderful exposition on deciding one is actually a woman.

    The thing is Mizhena is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as far as the writing quality taking a noticeable dive. There are issues like Rasaad's romance ending with entirely different tones that having nothing to do with what the player actually responded or how much Caelar wants to parley and negotiate but any attempt to work toward that end by the player just ends with everyone changing their mind and backing out because the game HAS to play out a certain way.

  • BigfishBigfish Member Posts: 368

    A lot of BG1's writing is really, really bad, worse than anything in SoD.

    It really isn't. About the only thing in BG1 that is particularly inexcusable is the letter in Gorion's room that everyone acts like you read whether you found it or not. NPC's being quirky and throw away lines are part of the charm of the whole simulated table top feel the game has. Xzar making a bunch of pop culture references doesn't feel too out of place, because that's the type of crap you get with some people playing D&D.

    SoD on the other hand has some great individual scenario design, but the fact the overarching story just drags you along really detracts from the whole experience. From the second the bridge gets blown up and Caelar monologues about her plan, you know at some point that hell gate's going to open and you're going to fight a demon. Sarevok's plot works because while he has bounty hunters dogging you all across the realms, the player is proactive in ending his schemes. Irenicus' plot works because while he has set a trap for you, the player has to choose to walk in to it. Caelar's plot doesn't because the second you say "hey, if you stop pillaging the countryside for supplies, I'll give myself up", everyone turns an immediate 180 and refuses your surrender, decides they're not going to turn you over, or says nevermind, they'll just kill you. The crowning achievement is the final half hour of your fall from grace, which is ridiculously frustrating as a matter of the player having no control over their reaction to events beyond some throw away lines.

  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 187
    edited February 2017

    Hahaha, "feminist agenda"? The Forgotten Realms barely even have a patriarchy to fight against, but people like you assume it must, and that furthermore wanting to get rid of patriarchy is somehow wrong. No.

    Viconia disagrees, she clearly states the aboveworld is male dominated. Regardless you seem a little confused about "people like me". I have no problem with patriarchal/matriarchal society. However I do have a problem with real-world hamfisted political shoehorning.

    Who's been so "altered"? Jaheira? She's never been particularly "feminine" according to the expectations of modern society

    Amber Scott has already answered your first who has been altered question. As for the second part, yet again I have no problem with a female that isn't naturally feminine (heck canon gave us Sharteel). However I will scrutinized a character that gets altered purely for ideological purposes.

    SIf anything, these "liberal" ideas actually are a fulfillment of what Ed Greenwood and the original BG writers originally intended but didn't always accomplish due to their inherent biases as a bunch of middle-class white male geeks (this is that "male privilege" everyone talks about).

    FTR "everyone" definitely doesn't talk about (or believe in) leftist catch phrases such as "male privilege" :D
    Also do you have any proof of your bold claim that the original BG writers were biased due to their white skin, or is this just more racist caucasian-hating progressive think tanking?

  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    No, because I have no interest in debating Feminism 101 with people. If you don't believe in male privilege at this point, we are enemies and have nothing more to discuss.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,009
    A reminder that forum rules require us to be respectful of one another.

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