I seem to remember, on ToB DVD box, an ad for the battleworn world of Torn. Obviously, this was an early idea of bioware to break free from DnD (probably to get more engine freedom, conceptual freedom, and of course, to not have to pay license fees). I think this game never made it past it's planning phase, was put on ice while they made NVN, and then what was left of that was maybe scrambled together to form DAO.
Now, as long as Bioware didnt trademark Torn, I dont see a problem with making a new game called Torn. Or, to make extra sure there is no IP horseshit left over somewhere, make a new world game called Ragged Worlds, that builds on the Torn idea. From what I remember from the ad (and I might remember completely wrong, the game was perhaps not even called Torn as far as I know), it seemed rather interesting. Much more so than DAO. Appearently, warring mages had quite literally torn the world apart (think the rift scene from the childrens movie Land before Time) and you were somehow the hero that would try to mend this broken world, or something.
Getting both parts of the formula is tough & BG2 was able to rely on a tried & true system.
Did you completly miss out on Pillars of Eternity? They sure done got their shit together! Another game that did good was Paper Sorcerer, even though its more of a Wizardry type game. Also, I havent actually played Tyranny, but according to the reviews it also kind of a spiritual successor to BG.
The truth is, most RPG:s, be they J or C, was utter shit spanning from the time period between ToB was released til... well, whatever the first independant RPG that didnt suck was released (possibly with exception of the FF series, if you dont mind hyperbolic, frustratingly long random encounters every five steps you take, that is). Eschalon maybe? Until just recently, while most CRPG extremists refuse to admit it, hack'n'slash ruled the day and all the best releases were hack'n'slashers. While the BG series is admittingly awesome, I do believe their reputation also at least in part have been helped by this fact. Now, however, the market has exploded, and the competition is rock-hard (does that saying work in english? Swedish native here). There is games a-plenty that would satisfy your golden standards.
Which is also why so many people are on their period in this thread; good doesnt cut it anymore, it has to be perfect. I have faith in Beamdog however, so far they have delivered, and especially considering most RPG:s on android are STILL shit, as if the recent RPG revolution skipped that system.
Which is also why so many people are on their period in this thread
Man there are a lot of boys around here.
That expression does not quite work the way you think it works.
I was merely using a term already established in this thread!
So let me make another, less offensive, analogy; people are unhappy, because their golden pantalantos have a wrinkle. Well, not objectively, but they still perceive there to be one.
(Meaning: Right now there is a LOT of good, new RPG:s out there, be they C, J or wizardry.)
In case there's any confusion, do bear in mind that insinuating that other forumites are being unreasonable due to menstrual issues is not respectful behavior in this forum.
These forums are nearly as bad as the LoL forums or trion forums (the trion mods ban u if u outsmart them and that's easily done). Really hope if the next project is an EE game it gets the support it deserves especially if it's PST
These forums are nearly as bad as the LoL forums or trion forums
If this forum is as bad as you say, don't use it. You've already expressed all your grievancies and disappointment on Beamdog products on numerous occasions. And you've already got all possible replies you could get.
Updates and SoD on mobile are projects we're working towards. We don't have release dates for either yet.
These forums are nearly as bad as the LoL forums or trion forums
If this forum is as bad as you say, don't use it. You've already expressed all your grievancies and disappointment on Beamdog products on numerous occasions. And you've already got all possible replies you could get.
Updates and SoD on mobile are projects we're working towards. We don't have release dates for either yet.
It's the general attitude to anyone who has any slight grievance to anything related to beamdog the perpetrators are hounded out. Even though on numerous occasions I've pointed out the things I actually liked. We've even had that convo in private about a few members who shall remain nameless.
"It's the general attitude to anyone who has any SLIGHT GRIEVANCE" Ahahahahaha that my friend, is a gross understatement of your conduct on this forum.
"It's the general attitude to anyone who has any SLIGHT GRIEVANCE" Ahahahahaha that my friend, is a gross understatement of your conduct on this forum.
I appreciate the defense of Beamdog, but defending Beamdog cannot come at the expense of the Site Rules. We've actually given at least one warning to somebody who attacked a Beamdog critic. The same applies to criticizing Beamdog.
@Nimran already changed the trajectory of this thread in a positive direction, and for a while there was calm. There is no need to continue in this ugly direction.
Cookies are an negative force. Thus it is impossible for them to change the trajectory of anything in a positive direction. That would end like for a planet to reach the Roche limit: everything would crumble to dough.
Temple of elemental evil I thought was good. No idea where my copy ever vanished too. Liked the steep learning curve to it.
Have you tried it again with the Co8/Temple+ mods? Seems to breathe new life into the game.
No I haven't probably never will due to too much going on at the moment trying to redo a mod I made for some pvp on bg1. Can't find my original mod so have to redo it from scratch which is mildly annoying.
T.O.E. was fun......but if you don't like buggy, unpatched games, find it odd that would be to your taste, but it confirms something and lets me know to no longer respond I guess??? Now if they re-did that in IE style graphics and some added story to go with the combat? Sure, but I'm sure there would be all sorts of licensing issues.
I'm ready to see if Beamdog has what it takes to take the next step and develop a game from scratch, using their own IP or D&D2e. While i found the mechanics of 3e/3.5e an interesting change of pace that did away with some of the arbitrary restrictions that limit a CRPG, but any decent human DM would simply ignore (give me a good RP story about why your halfling cam to follow & join the Sun Soul Monks after growing up on the streets of Calimport as a pickpocket & burglar and if it I may modify his abilities a bit to not be game breaking, but you can play him/her)....none of the more recent iterations(which seem geared towards the PC gamer rather than PnP gamer) seem to have the depth or possibilities of the old stuff.
I have not yet bought Pillars of Eternity, but will......from what I have read/seen....I doubt the mechanics- the magical mechanics specifically, will endear the game to me the way the BG games have. Honestly have not played a game that has really anything comparing to the depth and subtly of the way magic effects a game like BG2. Or multi-classing for that matter. It's a combination of many things, from items, class skills/abilities, magic system.....a Cleric/mage( people that state that cleric/mage is pointless as you can't cast more than 1 spell per round from one of those classes are completely missing what the class offers btw: utility along with clerics casting speeds with Robe of Venca, the speed/combo of both divine & arcane via sequencers, contingencies, improved alacrity, triggers, ect. and comboing clerical buff/debuffs with mage buffs/debuffs) will play completely different from a thief/mage......yet both have so many interesting ways of overcoming obstacles the game presents that it may never be beat. I can't think of a game that has just so many DIFFERENT spells/abilities that can be used/combined/tried. In large part that is, again, most likely to the fact that they used a system that was wildly popular and in common use for close to 20 years and had been refined. Same with the setting....a lot of very talented people contributed to the Forgotten Realms besides the great Ed Greenwood long before the BG series. Then WOTC came in and warped the system and tries to recreate it to sell more products every couple years & the results are rather meh in my opinion.
None of this works with out a great story and great side quests. While I missed the shear openness of BG....BG2 trumped it in so many ways with quests that could only be done/found if certain circumstances were meant that I constantly am finding something new in the game. Today's gamer does not seem to want to play a game several times in different ways to discover all that can be discovered unless it is some sort of twitch game such as platformers. Which is fine, I am a dinosaur..........doesn't mean I give up hope that a developer will attempt to find a audience and a game that satisfies my wants. Hope, after all, is eternal.
Asking a company to launch a new world & story (new IP) and develop mechanics with the depth, variety, and complexity of the older D&D caliber seems like too much to hope for.....setting them up to not meet expectations. It takes a long time to reach those heights & usually involves the standing on shoulders of giants. Unfortunately today's world seems to impatient to allow for masterpieces to develop over time from infancy to greatness.....to often people require something awesome to happen when they push a button......which leads to games like Dragon Age 2
So, yes, I will buy POE in hopes that the development moves in the direction I would hope for in terms of mechanics (looks like multi-classing is in in the 2nd game, which intrigues me even more given there statements on how they want to see it applied to the game in terms of power level) and show support for more IE style games. I hope Beamdog does not follow the trend of instant gratification and develops a deep game with deep mechanics that i will happily support as well.
Edit: Yes the halfling monk/thief is an outrageous concept given that real life martial artist of the variety and abilty that compare to D&D monks train from near birth, it was suppose to be to illustrate a point.
The bugs in it was horrible at times and the story was lacking but the combat made it up for it for me. Some things can be forgiving if other factors out weigh it.
Hopefully I can get my pvp mod up so me and my friends can see who instagib who first. They probably have there old habits. Just thinking what area of baldurs gate is the most suitable. Used the area with that wizard tower in the baldurs gate city last time. Just need to think of an area with as fewer party requirement to travel places.
My gut feeling tells me you will be pleasantly surprised.
Also, the best way of doing multiclass, in my opionon, is that you just pick one early on, say lvl 3 or something, and from then on it levels at 2/3 speed, and then at lvl 8 or something you get a third class, that will level at 1/3 speed, and that's it. The problem with multiclassing otherwise, I think, is that it detracts from your main class, when it should be a complement to your main class - and of course, depending on which other class you pick, you get unique synergestic bonuses.
Thanks for the suggestions! I actually looked into Eschalon, but never got around to it. I did download a couple games from Spiderware Games from their Avernum and Avadon series, and I think it was when I was looking into those (think I was searching "games like Baldur's Gate" on the ipad as BGEE on the ipad is what got me back into Crpgs & IE games specifically) games that I ran across it. I will definitely give it a look & probably get it as it costs $9.99 or Books 1,2, & 3 on Gog.com. For some odd reason I got a little off-put by Averum's grid based turn combat.....probably just being picky. My 8 year old kinda took over my ipad the last couple years, but I will be returning to those games as well once I get a new one.
I'm assuming it has a good story to go with deep game mechanics? The Eschalon video looks like it could be fun for sure. Now to find time to finish up BG2/TOB, do a start to finish trilogy run, install some mods (SCS, NPC banters, ect), try some game altering mods, try some solo, finally buy P.O.E. w/ Whitemarch (think POE is $17.99 still this week), play POE, and apparently buy & play some of the Eschalon series in my limited spare time, heh. Why am I wasting time here, I have games to play/purchase.
Edit: Hate to drag further off topic or advertise for other games but if you (DrakeICN) need something to tide ya over til Beamdog's next release? If you have not tried the Avernum or Avadon games, I would suggest back that you check them out as they seem like games you would enjoy.
Further off topic titan quest is available for mobiles/tablets and is a good port to be fair. If u want a diablo style game you can't go far wrong with titan quest plus it's pretty cheap and a lot of customisation.
The Anniversary Edition of Titan Quest is available for PCs as well and is well worth it. If you purchased the original game from Steam it should be available free on your library.
I was playing Avernum back when it was still called Exile Now, they (I say they, but as far as I know, it's a one man show) have gotten the horrible clunky controls (you have to press L to look etc) fixed, however, the other problem is the same now as it was back then; you level rather quickly, and once you do reach a certain level you become Superman, so the rest of the game is a yawn.
The world and the concept is intriguing - love the mushroom trees and lizardpeople - but storywise... well, Exile 2 is ok, but the others...
Avadon might be more balanced... not sure though. I installed it for Android and played a bit, and combat seemed more interesting. But it kept crashing, so I eventually unistalled it in a rage.
Edit: He did make one game with really good story though, the Celtic-Roman conflict one, called Nethergate I think? However, for some reason I do not comprehend, this is the one he never went further with, even though it is his best game. He should have hired a 2D sprite artist and go to town with that one.
I seem to remember, on ToB DVD box, an ad for the battleworn world of Torn. Obviously, this was an early idea of bioware to break free from DnD (probably to get more engine freedom, conceptual freedom, and of course, to not have to pay license fees). I think this game never made it past it's planning phase, was put on ice while they made NVN, and then what was left of that was maybe scrambled together to form DAO.
Now, as long as Bioware didnt trademark Torn, I dont see a problem with making a new game called Torn. Or, to make extra sure there is no IP horseshit left over somewhere, make a new world game called Ragged Worlds, that builds on the Torn idea. From what I remember from the ad (and I might remember completely wrong, the game was perhaps not even called Torn as far as I know), it seemed rather interesting. Much more so than DAO. Appearently, warring mages had quite literally torn the world apart (think the rift scene from the childrens movie Land before Time) and you were somehow the hero that would try to mend this broken world, or something.
Torn was a Black Isle project, and had nothing to do with Bioware. It was well on in development before the money ran out. I played the demo, it was pretty good. I think some of Torn may have ended up in Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny.
Comments
Now, as long as Bioware didnt trademark Torn, I dont see a problem with making a new game called Torn. Or, to make extra sure there is no IP horseshit left over somewhere, make a new world game called Ragged Worlds, that builds on the Torn idea. From what I remember from the ad (and I might remember completely wrong, the game was perhaps not even called Torn as far as I know), it seemed rather interesting. Much more so than DAO. Appearently, warring mages had quite literally torn the world apart (think the rift scene from the childrens movie Land before Time) and you were somehow the hero that would try to mend this broken world, or something.
The truth is, most RPG:s, be they J or C, was utter shit spanning from the time period between ToB was released til... well, whatever the first independant RPG that didnt suck was released (possibly with exception of the FF series, if you dont mind hyperbolic, frustratingly long random encounters every five steps you take, that is). Eschalon maybe? Until just recently, while most CRPG extremists refuse to admit it, hack'n'slash ruled the day and all the best releases were hack'n'slashers. While the BG series is admittingly awesome, I do believe their reputation also at least in part have been helped by this fact. Now, however, the market has exploded, and the competition is rock-hard (does that saying work in english? Swedish native here). There is games a-plenty that would satisfy your golden standards.
Which is also why so many people are on their period in this thread; good doesnt cut it anymore, it has to be perfect. I have faith in Beamdog however, so far they have delivered, and especially considering most RPG:s on android are STILL shit, as if the recent RPG revolution skipped that system.
So let me make another, less offensive, analogy; people are unhappy, because their golden pantalantos have a wrinkle. Well, not objectively, but they still perceive there to be one.
(Meaning: Right now there is a LOT of good, new RPG:s out there, be they C, J or wizardry.)
Updates and SoD on mobile are projects we're working towards. We don't have release dates for either yet.
Ahahahahaha that my friend, is a gross understatement of your conduct on this forum.
@Nimran already changed the trajectory of this thread in a positive direction, and for a while there was calm. There is no need to continue in this ugly direction.
Cookies are an negative force. Thus it is impossible for them to change the trajectory of anything in a positive direction. That would end like for a planet to reach the Roche limit: everything would crumble to dough.
I'm ready to see if Beamdog has what it takes to take the next step and develop a game from scratch, using their own IP or D&D2e. While i found the mechanics of 3e/3.5e an interesting change of pace that did away with some of the arbitrary restrictions that limit a CRPG, but any decent human DM would simply ignore (give me a good RP story about why your halfling cam to follow & join the Sun Soul Monks after growing up on the streets of Calimport as a pickpocket & burglar and if it I may modify his abilities a bit to not be game breaking, but you can play him/her)....none of the more recent iterations(which seem geared towards the PC gamer rather than PnP gamer) seem to have the depth or possibilities of the old stuff.
I have not yet bought Pillars of Eternity, but will......from what I have read/seen....I doubt the mechanics- the magical mechanics specifically, will endear the game to me the way the BG games have. Honestly have not played a game that has really anything comparing to the depth and subtly of the way magic effects a game like BG2. Or multi-classing for that matter. It's a combination of many things, from items, class skills/abilities, magic system.....a Cleric/mage( people that state that cleric/mage is pointless as you can't cast more than 1 spell per round from one of those classes are completely missing what the class offers btw: utility along with clerics casting speeds with Robe of Venca, the speed/combo of both divine & arcane via sequencers, contingencies, improved alacrity, triggers, ect. and comboing clerical buff/debuffs with mage buffs/debuffs) will play completely different from a thief/mage......yet both have so many interesting ways of overcoming obstacles the game presents that it may never be beat. I can't think of a game that has just so many DIFFERENT spells/abilities that can be used/combined/tried. In large part that is, again, most likely to the fact that they used a system that was wildly popular and in common use for close to 20 years and had been refined. Same with the setting....a lot of very talented people contributed to the Forgotten Realms besides the great Ed Greenwood long before the BG series. Then WOTC came in and warped the system and tries to recreate it to sell more products every couple years & the results are rather meh in my opinion.
None of this works with out a great story and great side quests. While I missed the shear openness of BG....BG2 trumped it in so many ways with quests that could only be done/found if certain circumstances were meant that I constantly am finding something new in the game. Today's gamer does not seem to want to play a game several times in different ways to discover all that can be discovered unless it is some sort of twitch game such as platformers. Which is fine, I am a dinosaur..........doesn't mean I give up hope that a developer will attempt to find a audience and a game that satisfies my wants. Hope, after all, is eternal.
Asking a company to launch a new world & story (new IP) and develop mechanics with the depth, variety, and complexity of the older D&D caliber seems like too much to hope for.....setting them up to not meet expectations. It takes a long time to reach those heights & usually involves the standing on shoulders of giants. Unfortunately today's world seems to impatient to allow for masterpieces to develop over time from infancy to greatness.....to often people require something awesome to happen when they push a button......which leads to games like Dragon Age 2
So, yes, I will buy POE in hopes that the development moves in the direction I would hope for in terms of mechanics (looks like multi-classing is in in the 2nd game, which intrigues me even more given there statements on how they want to see it applied to the game in terms of power level) and show support for more IE style games. I hope Beamdog does not follow the trend of instant gratification and develops a deep game with deep mechanics that i will happily support as well.
Edit: Yes the halfling monk/thief is an outrageous concept given that real life martial artist of the variety and abilty that compare to D&D monks train from near birth, it was suppose to be to illustrate a point.
Hopefully I can get my pvp mod up so me and my friends can see who instagib who first. They probably have there old habits. Just thinking what area of baldurs gate is the most suitable. Used the area with that wizard tower in the baldurs gate city last time. Just need to think of an area with as fewer party requirement to travel places.
You really should check out some of the independent games I mentioned;
My gut feeling tells me you will be pleasantly surprised.
Also, the best way of doing multiclass, in my opionon, is that you just pick one early on, say lvl 3 or something, and from then on it levels at 2/3 speed, and then at lvl 8 or something you get a third class, that will level at 1/3 speed, and that's it. The problem with multiclassing otherwise, I think, is that it detracts from your main class, when it should be a complement to your main class - and of course, depending on which other class you pick, you get unique synergestic bonuses.
Thanks for the suggestions! I actually looked into Eschalon, but never got around to it. I did download a couple games from Spiderware Games from their Avernum and Avadon series, and I think it was when I was looking into those (think I was searching "games like Baldur's Gate" on the ipad as BGEE on the ipad is what got me back into Crpgs & IE games specifically) games that I ran across it. I will definitely give it a look & probably get it as it costs $9.99 or Books 1,2, & 3 on Gog.com. For some odd reason I got a little off-put by Averum's grid based turn combat.....probably just being picky. My 8 year old kinda took over my ipad the last couple years, but I will be returning to those games as well once I get a new one.
I'm assuming it has a good story to go with deep game mechanics? The Eschalon video looks like it could be fun for sure. Now to find time to finish up BG2/TOB, do a start to finish trilogy run, install some mods (SCS, NPC banters, ect), try some game altering mods, try some solo, finally buy P.O.E. w/ Whitemarch (think POE is $17.99 still this week), play POE, and apparently buy & play some of the Eschalon series in my limited spare time, heh. Why am I wasting time here, I have games to play/purchase.
Edit: Hate to drag further off topic or advertise for other games but if you (DrakeICN) need something to tide ya over til Beamdog's next release? If you have not tried the Avernum or Avadon games, I would suggest back that you check them out as they seem like games you would enjoy.
Now, they (I say they, but as far as I know, it's a one man show) have gotten the horrible clunky controls (you have to press L to look etc) fixed, however, the other problem is the same now as it was back then; you level rather quickly, and once you do reach a certain level you become Superman, so the rest of the game is a yawn.
The world and the concept is intriguing - love the mushroom trees and lizardpeople - but storywise... well, Exile 2 is ok, but the others...
Avadon might be more balanced... not sure though. I installed it for Android and played a bit, and combat seemed more interesting. But it kept crashing, so I eventually unistalled it in a rage.
Edit:
He did make one game with really good story though, the Celtic-Roman conflict one, called Nethergate I think? However, for some reason I do not comprehend, this is the one he never went further with, even though it is his best game. He should have hired a 2D sprite artist and go to town with that one.