To show some solidarity I should quit using PPE. But @smeagolheart et all put a lot of time into PPE. BG sure looks nicer because of their work. But ...
By the way the same principle applies to any other copyrighted material such as audio and video, for instance.
R.I.P. Share a song or two thread, favourite videogame, classical, folk musics thread, 80s music thread, Songs in Forgotten Realms thread and any other thread with youtube videos. Your entertainment value won't ever be forgotten on these forums. ;_;
Not really, no. If it is clear who made the song (which usually is, either because someone puts the name of the band next to it or because it is included in the title) it should be a-okay. That is the different between sharing and using. There might arise problems if someone creates a new video, let's say a Let's Play for example, and they use a song or a snipped from it as either background music or the credits song. Then problems might arise (which, btw, is a very real issue on both YouTube and Twitch).
I fear this forum will not be the same if everyone who ever uploaded copyrighted material without a link to the source was treated as a thief.
If that is for the better or the worse you decide.
I have been constantly pointing out and trying to teach people better over the past years. Never have I called any of them a thief till this point (at least as far as I remember, I have been here for a long time). But things have imo gone wrong for too long and the barrel is full and I am sick of being nice.
If using such strong words to get people to listen is the only way to do so, then so be it.
Also, though this is up for debate obviously, a word usually has the meaning of what a large number of people (ideally most) would say it does. And to all the artists who have been discredited and taken their art without permission the people in question are indeed thiefs. And let's not forget that a culprit rarely sees their actions as wrong (as evident above).
The demand is that whenever you post something of which you don't own the copyright you should at least mention the artist and put a link to your source. It feels right and sounds sensible.
However I have a lot of doubts that that is going to happen. This is where theory meets real life. You will not change everyone on the Internet.
I know @Buttercheese you'd at least like people to post a link, but what if the link changes?
For example @LadyRhian has posted HUNDREDS if not more pictures over the years. Imagine she would have posted links to all the sources for each one of them. Now imagine the links change over time! Then everyone would always have to check if all the links they have ever made are still valid.
Yeah, I know those threads and I have mixed feelings about those.
However, she does name the artist in question, so she is still doing right. Changing links (and while we are at it: names as well) is something the sharer has no control over, so it's not their fault, imo.
While I would love for every work to have full credits with link and name, I know that this is sometimes not achievable. Like, for example if you were going to share a picture inside a book you own and you can't find a website of the artist or even the artist's name? Then you credit the book instead. (But this is 'public' vs. 'private' works again).
This thread doesn't exist for the sake of copyright infringement. I am hardly a law expert and laws are different in different countries. It exists because I demand that people learn respect for the many years of practice and the many hours of work that go into creating an artwork. Wether or not this is backed up by the law is for me personally irrelevant (especially since the law is not always just, but let's not debate that).
By the way the same principle applies to any other copyrighted material such as audio and video, for instance.
R.I.P. Share a song or two thread, favourite videogame, classical, folk musics thread, 80s music thread, Songs in Forgotten Realms thread and any other thread with youtube videos. Your entertainment value won't ever be forgotten on these forums. ;_;
Not really, no. If it is clear who made the song (which usually is, either because someone puts the name of the band next to it or because it is included in the title) it should be a-okay. That is the different between sharing and using. There might arise problems if someone creates a new video, let's say a Let's Play for example, and they use a song or a snipped from it as either background music or the credits song. Then problems might arise (which, btw, is a very real issue on both YouTube and Twitch).
That may be the case when the record labels, bands, or otherwise copyright holders in question officially uploaded said songs on their own. Since those are covered with the Standard YouTube License. However sharing links to "unofficially" uploaded songs on youtube would still be against the new site rules. Even when our forum posters credited the musicians in the proccess. Given that those song videos most likely weren't uploaded with permission from the music artist in the first place. Thus resulting in this:
Don’t post links to, attach to a post, or post: warez, illegal software, illegal copies of books, substantial portions of copyrighted texts, or anything of the sort. This is not limited to copyrighted published material, but also to images that must be purchased, and anything else being illegally distributed. If you possess verifiable consent of the owner of copyrighted content, you may post the allowed content (within the limits of the content rules).
That is independently from whether it applies on this forum or not. Do you think "fair use" as presented in that article is a good thing or is it a bad thing?
Well, as mentioned above, I am not a law expert ... also, I think things vary heavily on a case to case basis. I remember reading a news article many years ago where the WDR sued a kindergarden in Germany for having the mouse from "Die Sendung mit der Maus" painted on their wall or something. Stuff like this is imo bs. Everybody and their grandma knows who this character is and who own him. A kindergarden is a public service (of a sort, at least) and not an institution to generate money (at least I would hope so). No one gets hurt over this.
But then you also have cases were unknown muscians get their music published without their name attached or their consent.
Imo it's always about making sure that people know who made it and the intend behind it. Which is why I would love to keep @smeagolheart's mod alive and help make it better, because I know that he acted out of ignorance (again, not meant as an insult, but in the original sense of the word in that you literally didn't know better) and not out of malice or profit.
@Shandyr Memes: Again, case by case basis. If the image is from a generally known source (which I am pretty sure includes well known memes), I'd say don't worry about it. If not, give credit.
Gifs: I do source gifs I didn't 'create' myself (create as in gifed them and added camptions myself) and can find the person who originally 'create' the gifs. I also source if I am pretty sure that it's not easy to tell what exactly the shown scene is from.
I am also pretty sure neither of these have any notable commercial value. There is also this unwritten rule of the internet where pretty much knowns that memes and gifs have a live of their own (though, again, case-by-case basis).
And purely speaking for myself: Unless I actually animated the gif myself (as in it's actually an artwork) I would personally feel pretty silly as being credited as the source for anything else.
Again, ask yourself: Does it hurt anyone if I share this around?
Buuuut I honestly wouldn't be suprised if I myself am being ignorant here. However, I have never seen anyone complain about memes and gifs being created and shared around. Plenty of complains about art theft though.
So I guess for as long as the meme and/or gif doesn't include 'personal' artworks I think it's fine?
Btw, I wanna make it abundandly clear that I am not an expert on these matters. I am trying my best but my word is not the be-all-end-all of this topic. The point of this topic is to make people aware that things now are not working in a way that most people can be happy with.
My suggestions here are indeed just suggestions and other people (that includes other artists) may and will have differing views on this.
What needs to be found is a good compromise, a good rule of thumb. Art is a subjective thing by design and so are the views on how to handle it.
You know... if we're especially mean, we could even file joke theft under that clause as well. Which would also include puns. Because joke theft is real. Even if it sounds like a joke. Because they're jokes. Get it?
...and that is why after decades of debate business, society and government bodies everywhere in the world are yet to reach final consensus on the matter of copyright
Then there is the matter of "enforcing" versus "encouraging". I would so much prefer - as I am sure would you @Buttercheese - if people could be encouraged to give credit and they'd do it on their own volition and not because they are "forced" to.
I mean, it theoretically has been "encouraged" for years now. But sometimes I feel like I am the only one who actually makes an effort in this regard. It would be nice for example if the moderators/admins could actually check a mod for copyright infringement and the likes before they hit that promote button.
You know... if we're especially mean, we could even file joke theft under that clause as well. Which would also include puns. Because joke theft is real. Even if it sounds like a joke. Because they're jokes. Get it?
You know... if we're especially mean, we could even file joke theft under that clause as well. Which would also include puns. Because joke theft is real. Even if it sounds like a joke. Because they're jokes. Get it?
... I see myself out.
Wait. Does this means I can finally banish people for making puns in the forum? Good...
Anyway on a legal point of view if you can't determine ownership, and that is often the case in the Internet due to its Chaotic nature, a simple note saying the author is unknown and requesting that he/she contacts you in case they wish to discuss your use of their work or if they wish you to cease your use is enough is often enough.
That obviously does not apply to anything whose ownership is easy to determine, such as signed pictures or pictures that have a copyright notice on their exif headers
Regarding links, as long as the link provided was official and active in the moment you mention the author, it's not your responsibility to keep it updated... Unless the author contacts you and informs you of the new address requesting that you update it, of course.
Anyway on a legal point of view if you can't determine ownership, and that is often the case in the Internet due to its Chaotic nature, a simple note saying the author is unknown and requesting that he/she contacts you in case they wish to discuss your use of their work or if they wish you to cease your use is enough is often enough.
I wanna add that this has to be an absolute last resort. If you are not crediting the artist because you are too lazy and simply put in "credit to who ever did this" (which happens all the flippin time), you are not helping anybody. (I developed a natural instinct for recognizing when somebody is being lazy and when somebody genuinly doesn't know.) So if I find anybody who does this and I then manage to track down the artist/source withing a few minutes y'all can be dead sure I'll be openly calling them out for it (◕◡◕✿)
I know memes and GIFs was discussed above, but shouldn't memes/GIFs from movies be breaking the rules as well? These movies are obviously copywrited by the film/distribution companies. Isn't it kinda paradoxical to open a topic of art theft and then post a GIF from Arrested Development (I think)?
@Shandyr The paragraph you mention is alright and doesn't need any change.
Read here, with me "don’t post links to ... anything else being illegally distributed."
So that rule prohibits posting links to illegally distributed materials.
Everyone, keep calm:
1) when you post something please credit the source and the author, whether it's a portrait, a song or a video 2) use something in your mod only after you get a permission from the author 3) don't call certain people out, don't discuss them - use the Flag feature instead 4) when posting links to YouTube and the like - it's up to you to check the legality of the video, but it's indeed YouTube's responsibility, not yours.
@Shandyr You're free to post an artwork with correct crediting in all cases except when an artist explicitly states something along the lines of "Do not repost elsewhere without permission", or anything similar about an artwork not to be reposted.
Comments
To show some solidarity I should quit using PPE. But @smeagolheart et all put a lot of time into PPE. BG sure looks nicer because of their work. But ...
There might arise problems if someone creates a new video, let's say a Let's Play for example, and they use a song or a snipped from it as either background music or the credits song. Then problems might arise (which, btw, is a very real issue on both YouTube and Twitch).
If using such strong words to get people to listen is the only way to do so, then so be it.
Also, though this is up for debate obviously, a word usually has the meaning of what a large number of people (ideally most) would say it does. And to all the artists who have been discredited and taken their art without permission the people in question are indeed thiefs. And let's not forget that a culprit rarely sees their actions as wrong (as evident above).
Sugarcoating the issue is helping nobody.
However, she does name the artist in question, so she is still doing right.
Changing links (and while we are at it: names as well) is something the sharer has no control over, so it's not their fault, imo.
While I would love for every work to have full credits with link and name, I know that this is sometimes not achievable. Like, for example if you were going to share a picture inside a book you own and you can't find a website of the artist or even the artist's name? Then you credit the book instead. (But this is 'public' vs. 'private' works again).
This thread doesn't exist for the sake of copyright infringement. I am hardly a law expert and laws are different in different countries. It exists because I demand that people learn respect for the many years of practice and the many hours of work that go into creating an artwork. Wether or not this is backed up by the law is for me personally irrelevant (especially since the law is not always just, but let's not debate that).
That's a pretty clear case right there, no?
But then you also have cases were unknown muscians get their music published without their name attached or their consent.
Imo it's always about making sure that people know who made it and the intend behind it.
Which is why I would love to keep @smeagolheart's mod alive and help make it better, because I know that he acted out of ignorance (again, not meant as an insult, but in the original sense of the word in that you literally didn't know better) and not out of malice or profit.
It's all about respect.
Good points. Which is also a good reason for why the rules on that should be refined/ made clearer.
Memes: Again, case by case basis. If the image is from a generally known source (which I am pretty sure includes well known memes), I'd say don't worry about it. If not, give credit.
Gifs: I do source gifs I didn't 'create' myself (create as in gifed them and added camptions myself) and can find the person who originally 'create' the gifs. I also source if I am pretty sure that it's not easy to tell what exactly the shown scene is from.
I am also pretty sure neither of these have any notable commercial value.
There is also this unwritten rule of the internet where pretty much knowns that memes and gifs have a live of their own (though, again, case-by-case basis).
And purely speaking for myself: Unless I actually animated the gif myself (as in it's actually an artwork) I would personally feel pretty silly as being credited as the source for anything else.
Again, ask yourself: Does it hurt anyone if I share this around?
Buuuut I honestly wouldn't be suprised if I myself am being ignorant here.
However, I have never seen anyone complain about memes and gifs being created and shared around.
Plenty of complains about art theft though.
So I guess for as long as the meme and/or gif doesn't include 'personal' artworks I think it's fine?
My suggestions here are indeed just suggestions and other people (that includes other artists) may and will have differing views on this.
What needs to be found is a good compromise, a good rule of thumb.
Art is a subjective thing by design and so are the views on how to handle it.
... I see myself out.
But sometimes I feel like I am the only one who actually makes an effort in this regard.
It would be nice for example if the moderators/admins could actually check a mod for copyright infringement and the likes before they hit that promote button. No, please stay. I needed this.
Anyway on a legal point of view if you can't determine ownership, and that is often the case in the Internet due to its Chaotic nature, a simple note saying the author is unknown and requesting that he/she contacts you in case they wish to discuss your use of their work or if they wish you to cease your use is enough is often enough.
That obviously does not apply to anything whose ownership is easy to determine, such as signed pictures or pictures that have a copyright notice on their exif headers
Regarding links, as long as the link provided was official and active in the moment you mention the author, it's not your responsibility to keep it updated... Unless the author contacts you and informs you of the new address requesting that you update it, of course.
I wanna add that this has to be an absolute last resort.
If you are not crediting the artist because you are too lazy and simply put in "credit to who ever did this" (which happens all the flippin time), you are not helping anybody. (I developed a natural instinct for recognizing when somebody is being lazy and when somebody genuinly doesn't know.)
So if I find anybody who does this and I then manage to track down the artist/source withing a few minutes y'all can be dead sure I'll be openly calling them out for it (◕◡◕✿)
Read here, with me "don’t post links to ... anything else being illegally distributed."
So that rule prohibits posting links to illegally distributed materials.
Everyone, keep calm:
1) when you post something please credit the source and the author, whether it's a portrait, a song or a video
2) use something in your mod only after you get a permission from the author
3) don't call certain people out, don't discuss them - use the Flag feature instead
4) when posting links to YouTube and the like - it's up to you to check the legality of the video, but it's indeed YouTube's responsibility, not yours.
Thank you to everyone for understanding.