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Is there a mod that removes questionable changes beamdog added into EE?

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  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    sure, one engine.

    so long as you don't mind the filesize for the game being 1.5 ~ 2 times higher (to account for all the data changes done and bringin in copies of the old data to select from)

    and have the game run at 0.5 ~ 0.3 times the speed (as it has to process what to do based on what options are enabled at every point, with at least dozens of options because everyone wants something different to be an option)

    and with an incredible number of bugs (as new and old things have to play nicely together in every permutation of old and new).

    On top of that, I think everything we've done so far has been with the (heavily modified) bg2 engine reading bg1 data, so I don't even want to think of what kind of abomination we'd have to make to get the actual bg1 code to be optional, especially since a whole lot of it doesnt work on modern hardware and some of the services it depended on are out of business.

    Chances of getting a version of the EE games that allows you to optionally do nothing different but run on the same devices we run on are pretty dang slim.

    Dev6typo_tillyMirandelelminster
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    edited November 2019
    ***

    Post edited by lefreut on
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    I was under the impression that the idea was not to run the BG1 engine itself in the EE, but more like having some features that would replicate the way things were in the original game. And I think that this is a lot more feasible. On top of my head, I know that importing the original sprites and uncapping summons are totally doable through mods.

  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    edited October 2017
    Arctodus said:

    I was under the impression that the idea was not to run the BG1 engine itself in the EE, but more like having some features that would replicate the way things were in the original game. And I think that this is a lot more feasible. On top of my head, I know that importing the original sprites and uncapping summons are totally doable through mods.

    We have a winner. No idea where I said use bg1 engine or sprites just use the general gameplay which can be modded in as optional extras so it has a more classic feel to BG vanilla than BG EE.

  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    edited October 2017
    For example potion stacks are far too high makes the game far to easy and pretty much removes the entire need for healing spells for an example. So having an option in game to turn stacks sizes down, hell even have it on a slider so it's adjustable.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,510
    If there was a slider for potion stacking, practically everyone would play with the maximum setting for the sole reason that inventory management has never been fun. There's little point in adding features that the vast majority of players will simply never use.

    Dev6ThacoBellMirandel
  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    edited October 2017

    If there was a slider for potion stacking, practically everyone would play with the maximum setting for the sole reason that inventory management has never been fun. There's little point in adding features that the vast majority of players will simply never use.

    Can say the same for feedback options tool tip display and disable/enable group infravision. After 1 or 2 play throughs all come obsolete. Even the credits option is pointless who actually has a need to watch that multiple times? That's a feature that most players will never use.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    I have my original BG discs along with Tales of the Sword Coast and the "latest" patch for TotSC as a file; I also have the original books (but not the box). If you want to play BG/TotSC without *any* Beamdog content then make me a monetary offer and I will consider it.

  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    lefreut said:

    @SethDavis did you even have the old BG1 code? I thought that you only had the latest version of the ToB source code.

    We don't have a complete snapshot, so far as I know. But there are plenty of bits in here that are dated to bg1 that we've either gutted or replaced.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,300
    Wesboi said:

    For example potion stacks are far too high makes the game far to easy and pretty much removes the entire need for healing spells for an example. So having an option in game to turn stacks sizes down, hell even have it on a slider so it's adjustable.

    what makes potions "problematic" is that there's too many of them, not the stack size

    mf2112
  • WesboiWesboi Member Posts: 403
    bob_veng said:

    Wesboi said:

    For example potion stacks are far too high makes the game far to easy and pretty much removes the entire need for healing spells for an example. So having an option in game to turn stacks sizes down, hell even have it on a slider so it's adjustable.

    what makes potions "problematic" is that there's too many of them, not the stack size
    Having stacks of 24 rather than stacks of 5 means u free up 4 extra quick slots which is overpowered. It's no so much the quantity it's the ease of access.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    Ammar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,637
    If you're playing the game for the first time (and thus don't know how to farm XP) it's a very long haul until you're able to make use of unlimited summons. The benefits of slow walking are offset by the very poor resolution meaning your party took up a significant slice of the screen. AI and the benefits of archery in principle are unchanged in the EE, but the higher stack sizes and introduction of strength bonus for slings and daggers make the EE significantly easier.

    The way random encounters spawn has also changed in the EE to make them a bit less punishing for smaller and lower level parties than in the original. Overall I would agree with @ThacoBell's assessment of how much easier the EE version is.

    AmmarThacoBell
  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    edited October 2017
    Wesboi said:

    Arctodus said:

    I was under the impression that the idea was not to run the BG1 engine itself in the EE, but more like having some features that would replicate the way things were in the original game. And I think that this is a lot more feasible. On top of my head, I know that importing the original sprites and uncapping summons are totally doable through mods.

    We have a winner. No idea where I said use bg1 engine or sprites just use the general gameplay which can be modded in as optional extras so it has a more classic feel to BG vanilla than BG EE.
    If that's the case, you could post in the Feature Requests forum or better yet submit a feature request ticket on Redmine. They can probably implement at least a few requests.

    Ammar
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,145
    edited October 2017
    ThacoBell said:

    As someone who played original BG1 as their first Computer game and even first rpg. The difficulty is BRUTAL for someone who hasn't already built up a relevant skill base. Its easy to say the game is "easy" now, when one has been playing it for 16 years :wink: For what it's worth, I'd say the EE version is about 15-20% easier with BG2 improvements it brought over.

    No one says it is easy if you play for the first time, we are just comparing difficulties.

    You do your argument a disservice, by pulling quantitative numbers out of thing air. Could you make a claim and an argument that the original is more difficult than the new edition. Sure.

    But 15%-20% easier? What is this even supposed to mean? You did not define a metric to measure difficulty with, making it a meaningless statement.
    Grond0 said:

    The benefits of slow walking are offset by the very poor resolution meaning your party took up a significant slice of the screen. AI and the benefits of archery in principle are unchanged in the EE, but the higher stack sizes and introduction of strength bonus for slings and daggers make the EE significantly easier.

    The way random encounters spawn has also changed in the EE to make them a bit less punishing for smaller and lower level parties than in the original. Overall I would agree with @ThacoBell's assessment of how much easier the EE version is.

    I disagree about the resolution, as I think the range of view stayed the same. You just have to scroll more, which is inconvenient but not more difficult. I think the same about the stack sizes; you just had to return to town more often. I do not think I spend more than 60 arrows in a single combat.

    As for the encounter spawn are you sure about that? I remember that Tutu had more difficult spawns, as they did not take party size into account. But the original BG did. So I think for spawns it is Tutu > Original ~= EE.

    Slings and daggers are a fair point. If you want to discuss the matter exhaustively it depends on your playstyle anyway. I think a party of six mages is also easier in EE than in BG 1, due to wider spell choices. But in general, it is about the same.

  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,145
    Skatan said:


    So, without remembering for sure, I'd say the resolution increase alone should make the EE easier then the original, especially then combined with more archery due to higher stacks. I wouldn't want to play a 6-man party with 4 bow/xbow guys and 1-2 sling/dagger throwers today. Damn, that would be all about inventory management, hehe..

    Agreed, but this is about convenience not difficulty. If something just takes time, but no thinking effort it does not add to difficulty in my opinion.

    If you want games with good logistics (i.e. actually challenging and interesting) you could play Magic Candle or RoA.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,637
    edited October 2017
    Ammar said:

    I disagree about the resolution, as I think the range of view stayed the same. You just have to scroll more, which is inconvenient but not more difficult. I think the same about the stack sizes; you just had to return to town more often. I do not think I spend more than 60 arrows in a single combat.

    You pointed out earlier the need to define your terms. I realise difficulty won't mean the same to everyone, but I always play no-reload and my standard view of difficulty would relate to the chances of successfully completing a game. While I agree the actual range of view remains the same, the time and effort required to plan combats in the earlier game was significantly higher and, for me anyway, that constitutes an increased difficulty.

    Ammar
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,145
    Grond0 said:

    Ammar said:

    I disagree about the resolution, as I think the range of view stayed the same. You just have to scroll more, which is inconvenient but not more difficult. I think the same about the stack sizes; you just had to return to town more often. I do not think I spend more than 60 arrows in a single combat.

    You pointed out earlier the need to define your terms. I realise difficulty won't mean the same to everyone, but I always play no-reload and my standard view of difficulty would relate to the chances of successfully completing a game. While I agree the actual range of view remains the same, the time and effort required to plan combats in the earlier game was significantly higher and, for me anyway, that constitutes an increased difficulty.
    That is certainly one of multiple possible definitions of difficulties, thanks for clarifying. And I agree, that with no reloading it is easier to fail in the original by forgetting to put the right items in the quickslots, refilling the ammo slots, not noticing an enemy in range of view but not on screen...

    Personally, how I would define difficulty is by how much I need to think for each combat, after taking care of the routine stuff (i.e. standard buffs, equipping items, etc.).

    Grond0
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 11,901
    @Ammar Easy, the original is more difficult because you are fighting the interface as much as the enemies. As much as I see people complain about pathfinding now, it used to be MUCH worse. In the EE's I can click the other side of the map and 90% of the time, the whole party makes it there. I could NEVER do that in the original, I'd have to keep the distance short (about a single screens width) to prevent my party from getting caught on each other in an open field. Not being able to easily or reliable reposition your people adds difficulty.
    The more zoomed in screen meant constantly getting attacked by archers from offscreen. In the EE I usually play about half zoomed out, and just that is enough to allow me to always see my attacker. Being attacked by enemies you cannot see makes it more difficult.
    Not being able to pause while looking at the inventory is more difficult than being able to keep it paused. One requires having the necessary weapons and potions immediately handy in quickslots. The other allows the entire inventory to be used safely, even swapping among party members.

    So yes, the original is more difficult than the EEs. Mostly because of a bad interface and poor pathing, so more difficult in the wrong ways to be fun. I say 10-20% because thats what it feels like to me. Its an estimation. The game is controlled the same way, but a bad interface does make a game appreciably more difficult.

    semiticgodGrumtbone1
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,510
    The increased movement speeds do make the game easier in a strictly mechanical sense, because non-human sprites from BG1 still have their original low movement speeds, giving you an advantage over non-human critters.

    tbone1ThacoBellSkatan
  • RedrakeRedrake Member Posts: 424
    I would dearly love to see the pathfinding from original IWD1 back...

    The one from BG2 included in EE is very bad. Characters constantly getting stuck in one another and no brain to go around. In the older IWD1 when for example an archer stayed in the door and fired at an enemy the other party members behind the archer were able to push him aside and go for the enemy in melee, not just sit and try to reach like the archer was a statue.

    So yes, pathfinding is one annoying feature I wouldn't mind (at all) to see being removed.

    I do wonder if anyone knows what controls this pathfinding if it is a script which we might improve (by canibalization from the older IWD1) or something...

  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 7,991
    @AMP1972 your post here was caught in our forum's spam filter. I have restored it and verified you so that this should not happen again.

    JuliusBorisov[Deleted User]
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