You referred to Caelar on Normal mode - I don't understand what that means in the context of an insane run?
It means I spent so much time fussing over the "solo" and "poverty" parts that I forgot about the "Insane" part.
I'm not familiar with the repeating lightning bolt trap, but if any class with Protection from Lightning or MGOI could tackle it (or a Shadowdancer with Shadowstep, perhaps, but not for this type of run), that would open things up to other divine spellcasters and sorcerers. But only druids could attempt a Harm spell, and the odds of success are vanishingly small: 10% chance of a hit with Bless and Pixie Dust, with another 2.4% knocked off due to Belhifet's MR, and the odds of failing both Harm attempts are about 85%, for just under a 15% success rate.
That leaves sorcerers, but since Lower Resistance only lasts 11 rounds at max level, sorcerers simply can't break through Belhifet's 350 HP without getting lots of lucky hits through partially-lowered MR. The average damage from 6 Magic Missiles would be 105 assuming no MR, 6 Melf's Acid Arrows would be 120, and 6 Skull Traps would be 231, for a total of 456. But that would take 17 rounds, which means you'd need a LOT of spells to go through 89% or sometimes 78% MR.
But then again, you can have an unlimited army of summons in that version of Baldur's Gate 1.
Yes, but there are other significant drawbacks to vanilla:
1) run speed considerably slower than BG 2 run speed, harder to kite or escape when in danger
2) Pro magic scroll doesn't allow use of any potions, not even healing potions
3) Going in inventory for anything unpaused the game - quite harrowing if you have to do that in the Sarevok battle
4) More powerful spawns, such as the vampiric wolf that could spawn on your way to Nashkel - doesn't appear to spawn in EE.
5) Missile damage is considerably more powerful - yes this is good for you, but it also makes enemy ranged who are using magical ammo very deadly as well. For example, a crossbow bolt of lightning in BG 2 does 8 + 4D2, but in vanilla it does 8 + 4D4.
I would say these things make vanilla just as hard as EE. The Pro Magic scroll restriction for example, is a huge drawback for a solo character. I had many a fighter who wished he could heal himself when I tried a solo character in vanilla.
I was vaguely thinking about doing another no-reload sometime, and had an idea that it might be interesting to have a community challenge going on. We all usually just try to do our own thing (and fail in our own way!) and set individual conditions- whether that be single class runs, poverty runs, insane with scs, berserker sword or whatever. However, if people who have previously completed a no-reload suggested a minor rule to adhere to, then that might make for an interesting cumulative challenge- the no-reloader's noreload . For example I might suggest that you must always have a full party where possible but no resurrections are allowed, someone else might recommend that potions can't be used in combat, and yet another person might suggest a 'carousing' rule - your characters like to party and blow 10% of their cash at an inn at every available opportunity in classic sword & sorcery fashion . After about 5 or 6 people make a suggestion things could get very interesting indeed. Any thoughts on what sorts of rules might be interesting for you?
I'm not known for restricting my runs very much--I'll use almost any option available--but I do have a habit of abandoning certain tricks and exploits once I get tired of them, or once I can't find any new uses for them. If you were to make that a general restriction, I suppose my rule, in this "cumulative restrictions" challenge, would be: "No exploits, glitches, or tricks that you've already used in a previous run."
The definition of "exploit" is probably best left fuzzy for the purposes of this rule, since people have rather different perspectives on what constitutes an exploit.
I'm not sure about setting out lots of different rules - I suspect that could potentially get a bit annoying and difficult to follow if you're strict about sticking to rules. There was talk at one time about doing another run where people each contributed a character, so that everyone used the same characters - though with freedom to develop them as they wished. Would anyone be interested in that?
@Stromael effectively all I was suggesting was that a group of us all start with the same party and see how we each get on. My memory is so bad I can't remember who did best last time - possibly @Serg_BlackStrider (apologies if I've got that wrong)?
One of the most fun things we did on the old planetbaldursgate forum was to play a succession game. I don’t recall if it was no-reload, and it was a party game rather than solo and without mods. Essentially somebody plays for a bit, hands over the save file to somebody else to continue, and so on with many players taking it in turns to play the same game. Normally accompanied by a report of what happened in the time each person was playing.
I like the idea of multiple simultaneous runs. We could give each other advice on the way.
How about everyone suggests a class or NPC to include in a party and then we can vote on which ones to include, since we might have more than 6 participants?
How about a basic SCS install without scary Tactics or Ascension stuff? I think multiple simultaneous runs should work with a gentler setup. We could keep some of the tougher components off the table, like universal pre-buffing.
True. I think that's probably the best approach. Then we also need one character for all with all the same stats I suppose? A 75 or 80 spread most likely.
I like the idea of multiple simultaneous runs. We could give each other advice on the way.
How about everyone suggests a class or NPC to include in a party and then we can vote on which ones to include, since we might have more than 6 participants?
There is this old thread too, if any would like inspiration:
Also, my signature character for this challenge would be a gnomish cleric/illusionist named Frisky Bits. My typical portraits are attached.
I looked back at the Hall of Heroes and five characters have Undertale-themed names: Chara, Frisk, Frisk, Frisky Bits, and Frisky Bits. Why not add more?
@Mantis37 I imagine there must be an interesting back-story as to why someone with a wisdom of 9 was desperate to be a druid . If we're setting stats I would suggest the following for a half-orc true neutral shaman: S18 D8 C17 I11 W15 C9. I attach the character portrait I usually use for that.
Thus far we've got an avenger, a shaman and a cleric/illusionist - this party is feeling really divine . Anyone want to contribute something with a bit more punch (or sneakiness), or would people prefer to go with a full party of casters ...
Priest of Lathander (11) -> Ranger
(Racial enemy: Demonic/Fell)
The aims: stack damage resistances (AoF, DoE, Hardiness, Roranach, Dumathoin, Sewer Cloak), gain access to Druid spells plus lots of buffs, easy dual-wield, racial enemy, Fighter HLAs. She should be a decent tank with interesting utility spells.
Most important is the Boon of Lathander buff (combat/APR bonuses, immunity to level drain).
Suggested dual-level: 11, giving 2 BoL + 3 Hold Undead + up to 6th-level Priest Spells. Earlier possibility of 5, since AoF increments there. Or you could do the masochistic 15 for better AoF.
Name: Falesia
Str 17 Dex 17 Con 13 Int 11 Wis 17 Cha 8
(She needs ludicrous Str/Dex/Wis to be able to dual into Ranger.)
Feel free to set Ranger Druid spells on or off in your config file.
Was concocting this character before @Mantis37 and @Grond0 commented, but I'm glad it continues the divine theme. I'm imagining her as proud, self-righteous and arrogant, but taking a hippy nature-lover turn mid-way; role-play as you like, though.
EDIT: Forgot the portrait.
EDIT2: Ran tests; corrected Priest of Lathander level-up info.
Well, I was vaguely basing the stats on myself, and in the previous thread I'd gone for a Ranger/ Mage which is a mod combo of course, so I went for something vaguely similar. I suppose a Stalker might also have been a plausible mix of nature with a dash of mage. Now I have an image of an Avenger who has lost their faith a bit though: "You defile this sacred space with your logging Lord Khellon, we must find a middle way over tea & crumpets." A sort of homage to Eddie Izzard's Cake or Death routine if you're familiar with it .
I can only offer to the run a drunken barbarian Cuwaert who uses no weapons and just goes into a breaking stupor after getting hammered at a bar. Maximal potion use for absolutely no good reason is warranted.
So we've got a play-it-safe gnome, a foppish druid, an angry shaman (seemingly, from the pic), an arrogant religious fanatic, a permanent drunk, and a...whimsical halfling? (Ever difficult to interpret CN.) Sounds like a pleasantly dysfunctional party. Any other proposals/alterations?
On my umpteenth restart at the Bard + party run, I've finally refined a solid tactic for disposing of Basilisks + Mutamin (damn he's a nifty nipper with the Oil of Speed SCS gives him; I charmed him with Algy and wasted his spells, whilst tanking his lizards with a Totemic Summon).
But the last time I tested my mettle against Sirines they literally wiped the floor with us (area north of Lighthouse section/due west from High Hedge; I'll try Sil when I've worked up my courage with these ones first!).
They've got some sort of
cloud ability that blinds, plus their usual charm abilities and poisoned arrows.
It was a walkover. So I wanted to know what tips you guys have, veteran or nay. The Greenstone Amulet is tempting but we're still only level 3-4-ish, so negotiating Ankhegs makes me nervous. Feldepost sells a Helm of Charm Protection; is that effective against their Charms? Also does the Inquisitor's innate Charm-resistance block them completely? And how do you block/prevent their SCS-derived abilities? (Actually, I do have ATweaks installed too, so it could be coming from there.)
@Stromael: Those special abilities are coming from ATweaks. ATweaks gives some extra abilities to fey critters. I strongly recommend against playing ATweaks in a no-reload run, largely because a lot of the abilities they give to mephits and demons offer no saving throw, and some of those no-save effects are vorpal strikes, in the case of Balors. That mod isn't always necessarily fair or workable under normal circumstances, especially for runs with special restrictions like solo runs or what have you.
Without ATweaks, with SCS alone, sirines will only have Improved Invisibility, Dire Charm, and Arrows of Biting. The Greenstone Amulet is definitely a viable option (you might opt to recruit a cleric to deal with ankhegs, since ankhegs can't make a save against a cleric's Command spell), but otherwise immunity to charm comes from scarce resources. I wasn't aware that you could buy a Helm of Charm Protection from Feldepost's Inn; that might actually be a mod-introduced changed. Any immunity to charm will block a sirine's charm spells, including Inquisitor immunities, elf resistances, and the Helm of Charm Protection.
Comments
I'm not familiar with the repeating lightning bolt trap, but if any class with Protection from Lightning or MGOI could tackle it (or a Shadowdancer with Shadowstep, perhaps, but not for this type of run), that would open things up to other divine spellcasters and sorcerers. But only druids could attempt a Harm spell, and the odds of success are vanishingly small: 10% chance of a hit with Bless and Pixie Dust, with another 2.4% knocked off due to Belhifet's MR, and the odds of failing both Harm attempts are about 85%, for just under a 15% success rate.
That leaves sorcerers, but since Lower Resistance only lasts 11 rounds at max level, sorcerers simply can't break through Belhifet's 350 HP without getting lots of lucky hits through partially-lowered MR. The average damage from 6 Magic Missiles would be 105 assuming no MR, 6 Melf's Acid Arrows would be 120, and 6 Skull Traps would be 231, for a total of 456. But that would take 17 rounds, which means you'd need a LOT of spells to go through 89% or sometimes 78% MR.
Yes, but there are other significant drawbacks to vanilla:
1) run speed considerably slower than BG 2 run speed, harder to kite or escape when in danger
2) Pro magic scroll doesn't allow use of any potions, not even healing potions
3) Going in inventory for anything unpaused the game - quite harrowing if you have to do that in the Sarevok battle
4) More powerful spawns, such as the vampiric wolf that could spawn on your way to Nashkel - doesn't appear to spawn in EE.
5) Missile damage is considerably more powerful - yes this is good for you, but it also makes enemy ranged who are using magical ammo very deadly as well. For example, a crossbow bolt of lightning in BG 2 does 8 + 4D2, but in vanilla it does 8 + 4D4.
I would say these things make vanilla just as hard as EE. The Pro Magic scroll restriction for example, is a huge drawback for a solo character. I had many a fighter who wished he could heal himself when I tried a solo character in vanilla.
The definition of "exploit" is probably best left fuzzy for the purposes of this rule, since people have rather different perspectives on what constitutes an exploit.
That was fun.
How about everyone suggests a class or NPC to include in a party and then we can vote on which ones to include, since we might have more than 6 participants?
I'd like to see a shaman included on the grounds they don't get enough love ...
There is this old thread too, if any would like inspiration:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/66428/your-signature-character-class/p1
If we had 6 forumites I would, in my overcomplicating way, feel
like they should all be Bhaalspawn. The "no, I'm Gorion's Ward" run
I looked back at the Hall of Heroes and five characters have Undertale-themed names: Chara, Frisk, Frisk, Frisky Bits, and Frisky Bits. Why not add more?
Stats, allowing for the avenger kit subtractions- S11 D15 C11 I16 W9 CH9. Yes I know these are illegal, just EE them in later
Thus far we've got an avenger, a shaman and a cleric/illusionist - this party is feeling really divine
Priest of Lathander (11) -> Ranger
(Racial enemy: Demonic/Fell)
The aims: stack damage resistances (AoF, DoE, Hardiness, Roranach, Dumathoin, Sewer Cloak), gain access to Druid spells plus lots of buffs, easy dual-wield, racial enemy, Fighter HLAs. She should be a decent tank with interesting utility spells.
Most important is the Boon of Lathander buff (combat/APR bonuses, immunity to level drain).
Suggested dual-level: 11, giving 2 BoL + 3 Hold Undead + up to 6th-level Priest Spells. Earlier possibility of 5, since AoF increments there. Or you could do the masochistic 15 for better AoF.
Name: Falesia
Str 17 Dex 17 Con 13 Int 11 Wis 17 Cha 8
(She needs ludicrous Str/Dex/Wis to be able to dual into Ranger.)
Feel free to set Ranger Druid spells on or off in your config file.
Was concocting this character before @Mantis37 and @Grond0 commented, but I'm glad it continues the divine theme.
EDIT: Forgot the portrait.
EDIT2: Ran tests; corrected Priest of Lathander level-up info.
Str 15, dex 5, Con 12, int 13, Wis 6, Cha 7.
Proficiency only in weapon styles.
If you want it
EDIT: Only 1 left guys, then we can start! Any Thief takers?
Star, a female halfling, chaotic neutral swashbuckler using Clara's portrait. S10 D19 C16 I9 W8 CH17.
I'm interested in following or watching this multi-player project you guys and gals have going, but shouldn't this have its own thread?
Well if they intend to do no reload, they can just put in that thread. But if not, then yeah they should make its own thread.
Point taken. With preliminaries out the way, let's continue in the NR thread.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/74883/simultaneous-no-reload-baldurs-gate-quadrilogy-run
The runs themselves should probably be posted to the no-reload main thread, but this will be an area to set up and discuss the run.
On my umpteenth restart at the Bard + party run, I've finally refined a solid tactic for disposing of Basilisks + Mutamin (damn he's a nifty nipper with the Oil of Speed SCS gives him; I charmed him with Algy and wasted his spells, whilst tanking his lizards with a Totemic Summon).
But the last time I tested my mettle against Sirines they literally wiped the floor with us (area north of Lighthouse section/due west from High Hedge; I'll try Sil when I've worked up my courage with these ones first!).
They've got some sort of
Without ATweaks, with SCS alone, sirines will only have Improved Invisibility, Dire Charm, and Arrows of Biting. The Greenstone Amulet is definitely a viable option (you might opt to recruit a cleric to deal with ankhegs, since ankhegs can't make a save against a cleric's Command spell), but otherwise immunity to charm comes from scarce resources. I wasn't aware that you could buy a Helm of Charm Protection from Feldepost's Inn; that might actually be a mod-introduced changed. Any immunity to charm will block a sirine's charm spells, including Inquisitor immunities, elf resistances, and the Helm of Charm Protection.