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The Adventurer's Lounge: Guidance and Support for No Reload Challengers- Newbie or Veteran

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  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    The CTRL-K run just finished SoD! In retrospect I spend way too much time on SoD, doing side quests and gathering items we don't really need to take on the game's challenges. Plus, since we can't bring a normal party member into BG2, we don't enter SoA with any higher XP by completing extra quests in SoD.

    We had to use CTRL-Q on a Lesser Stone Golem in the elevator in order to get out of Avernus after the final battle (it's a straight shot to a cutscene that apparently crashes if every party member is an NPC, before leaving Avernus). However, it seems that we still can't import a character into BG2 if it was recruited via CTRL-Q (or at least was a Lesser Stone Golem). So we're just going to import from another game that has the same items to make sure we start BG2 with the Golden Pantaloons and such available.

    SoD was pretty easy with so many fighters in the party (fighter, fighter/mage, Archer, and FMT). Bows really rule SoD, much like BG1.

    For Chateau Irenicus I think we need to turn Yoshimo into a sorcerer, or else we won't be able to get into the lock that holds the Golden Pantaloons: Imoen has to be a Kensai, Minsc can't be anything since he has an illegal STR for any non-warrior (and my rules say I can't make him any warrior class), Jaheira has to be an Archer and therefore can't get high STR, and Yoshimo can't be any thief or fighter because he can dual-class from thief to fighter in vanilla.

    BlackravenStummvonBordwehrMantis37
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    I think I should try out a minimalist run sometime, just to see how many corners I can safely cut. Being able complete BG1 and SoD faster would be really useful. I spend so much time chasing down XP and loot that I don't need and feel bored gathering.

    Blackraven
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,502
    edited January 9
    Lock difficulty 49, yes.

    Incidentally, any of the standard NPCs you find in the dungeon could unlock that container given their usual classes. Imoen and Yoshimo have thief skills, Minsc has enough strength naturally (though he would probably need a few tries), and Jaheira can turn into a bear to do it.

    Yoshimo could also get at that container as a cleric or barbarian; the strength bonuses from rage or DUHM would be enough when added to his natural 17. And if you can open that lock, you can open any of the locks in the dungeon except the plot-locked doors and the ones that need keys.
    For the arcane route, either Polymorph Self (bear form) or Knock can unlock any chest in the dungeon; the former gets multiple locks in one cast.

    One note for later on ... the fight in the druid grove doesn't actually require a druid. The dialogue checks for Cernd, Jaheira, or any druid, but it doesn't check the classes of Cernd or Jaheira. Jaheira could indeed fight Faldorn as an archer - though doing so without equipment would be quite the challenge.

    BlackravenStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    Yoshimo can't be a Barbarian per my rules since he can dual class to fighter in vanilla and I consider Barbarian a fighter kit because it's coded as such. Minsc can't join the party under my rules due to his STR being too high for a non-warrior class, and Jaheira cannot be a druid or a fighter because of my rules. But yes, cleric is also an option for Yoshimo. I have no main character so I also won't have Polymorph Self or Knock or any other thieving abilities.

    Cernd can take down Faldorn without being in the party, but if I recruited him at a high enough level he can probably do so in the party since I'm going to take him as a sorcerer to take advantage of his high WIS.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    I just realized I broke my rules by making Jaheira into an Archer. She's a fighter/druid in vanilla, and per my rules I cannot make her a warrior class.

    I have to start over. This time I'll be a bit faster and more aggressive--I'll probably solo as Viconia for a while, and have Jaheira be a thief so we'll be in a better position for Chateau Irenicus (it was a bit tough at first because all we had was an Archer and a Kensai with no weapons they were proficient in and terrible AC).

    BlackravenStummvonBordwehr
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    I'm enjoying these brief updates @semiticgoddess, and the no Charname theme with customised NPCs too. Do you use mod kits? Jaheira could be a pretty good rogue archer as per your archer mod no? Albeit with a somewhat superfluous CON point.

    I think I'm going play around more with NPC customisation too though I'll try to stay in character with every NPC. In my last run I liked Branwen as a Shaman for example.

  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    @Blackraven: That could work, although I'll probably want to make her a Bounty Hunter or Shadowdancer if she has the stats to help with Chateau Irenicus.

    BlackravenStummvonBordwehr
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,502
    Shadowdancer requires 15 Dex. Jaheira's only eligible for it if you're using her BG2 stats (17 Dex versus 14).

    BlackravensemiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    @jmerry: Thanks for the catch. Maybe I'll just wait on recruiting her until BG2 (or give her the DEX tome before picking her class, if my visit to Nashkel without talking to Berrun Ghastkill hasn't disappeared her from the FAI).

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    @jmerry: Thanks for the catch. Maybe I'll just wait on recruiting her until BG2 (or give her the DEX tome before picking her class, if my visit to Nashkel without talking to Berrun Ghastkill hasn't disappeared her from the FAI).

    Khalid and Jaheira will only disappear after you clear the Nashkel Mines.

    semiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,502
    Just visiting Nashkel won't make her leave. The trigger for Jaheira and Khalid to vanish from the game is if you complete the mines and reach chapter 3 without ever inviting them into the party. Same for Montaron and Xzar.

    semiticgoddess
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    We're entering the Cloakwood now! Viconia is against our FMT Charname, Imoen is a Wizard Slayer, and Baeloth and Xan are single-classed, unkitted fighters solely because it seemed too weird to make them Berserkers.

    Honestly, I don't really see the need for another mage, or cleric, or thief, even though we're so fighter-heavy. Spellcasters just mean more micromanagement and less damage output. Who needs wands when we have arrows? As long as Charname can cast Invisibility if we get in trouble, we'll be okay.

    I think I'm going to just speed through the game with the fighters I have.

    BlackravenGrond0StummvonBordwehr
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    I've decided against it. The reason I started this particular challenge is to experiment with NPC's in new classes, and soloing the game with the same class picks isn't really experimenting anymore; it's repeating old steps so I can experiment in BG2 instead. That's not what I came to do. I think I'll abandon the CTRL-K concept, or at least pick some new kits for it.

    BlackravenStummvonBordwehr
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,034
    edited January 12
    I have been finding that my mage cannot memorise some spells. Before EE, I could erase spells from my spell book in order to memorise others. Has EE changed things?

    EDIT

    I have just discovered that you now have to right-click on the icon, not on the text, so an answer is not required. I should have Googled before posting. :(

    semiticgoddessStummvonBordwehr
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    If you right-click on the spell icon - so not on the name of the spell - in the spellbook, you should get a pop-up asking you whether you want to erase that spell from your spellbook.

    Instead of erasing spells though, you could also drink potions of mind focusing and/or genius. A mage with 19+ intelligence can learn every spell of every level, barring opposite school spells for specialists, even if that intelligence score is temporary. (Depending on your settings, increasing INT is also recommendable in order to prevent spell scribing failure. You need 24 or 25 INT or lower your difficulty setting to be 100% sure a spell will be added.)

    semiticgoddessStummvonBordwehrWise_GrimwaldArvia
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    You can get away with 18 INT (85% chance) if you're a specialist mage scribing a scroll of your chosen school, since specialists get a +15% bonus to scribing chance for spells of their school.

    BlackravenArvia
  • jmerryjmerry Member Posts: 1,502
    Or, for a mage or bard with no kit, 23 Int guarantees success. There's an off-by-one bug, so that 99% listed chance is actually 100% if you're not taking a specialist penalty.
    24 or 25 Int lists 150% chance to learn, so success is guaranteed even with a specialist penalty.

    Note also that Imoen, in both games, has a wrong entry in her creature file - a null kit instead of the base class/generalist value. If she's dual-classed to mage, she'll take the specialist penalty. It's bugs all the way down.

    semiticgoddessBlackravenStummvonBordwehrArvia
  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 266
    On the subject of scroll scribing: I have a vague memory that, when scribing a spell scroll of a level above what you can currently cast, there's a 5% or 10% penalty per level. So for instance trying to scribe a Fireball scroll (third level) as a non-specialist L1 Mage with 18 Intelligence (who can only cast first level arcane spells) would result in an 85% - (2 * 5%) = 75% chance of success.

    Is this correct or am I simply confused, and there is no penalty for scribing scrolls above your current max castable level?

    semiticgoddess
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    The NPC customization feature could make poverty runs much more viable at certain parts of the saga. Being able to go through Mutamin's Garden before recruiting characters could net you a lot of XP that a full custom party would struggle to reach. Soloing part of BG2 could also get you a suite of high-level sorcerers in the party, though only 2 NPCs have 18 Wisdom for Wish: Viconia and Cernd.

    Blackraven
  • Wise_GrimwaldWise_Grimwald Member Posts: 3,034
    The NPC customization feature could make poverty runs much more viable at certain parts of the saga. Being able to go through Mutamin's Garden before recruiting characters could net you a lot of XP that a full custom party would struggle to reach. Soloing part of BG2 could also get you a suite of high-level sorcerers in the party, though only 2 NPCs have 18 Wisdom for Wish: Viconia and Cernd.

    That is what I have been doing recently. Waiting until Experience is 32000 before recruiting. There are mods around that are even mpre helpful, but I currently choose not to use them.

    Grond0BlackravenArvia
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    I'm up to SoA with a Sky Dancer party run and it looks like a bug ate the Golden Pantaloons in SoD! I was noticing we didn't have the Golden Pantaloons even though Minsc broke the lock on the painting in Chateau Irenicus, and when I re-played the end of SoD, it seems that the Golden Pantaloons were deleted from my inventory when the game took my items. As a result, my import save lacked the item, and so it didn't import. I'm consoling the pantaloons in, since I like me my Scorcher Ammunition in ToB.

    Like my CTRL-K run, I'm tweaking NPC classes, but rather than forcing each character to have a completely new class, I'm going with what makes conceptual sense. So, Jaheira is an Avenger, Minsc is a Berserker, and Imoen is a Flare Dancer, the idea being that Imoen and Pearl (our Charname) practiced monk stuff in Candlekeep.

    I like the Dancer kits, but the Flare Dancer and Sky Dancer kits are still both monks, and monks are terrible in BG1 and SoD. Still, the game wasn't too difficult since I could draw strength from our party members (Khalid was instrumental as our Archer).

    Safana saw a stint as a Plasma Wizard, which is so-so from a powergaming perspective, at least before BG2. Infinite lightning bolts and fireballs with multiple shots per round aren't so overpowered when the damage per hit is tiny, especially when AC, magic resistance, and a save vs. breath can block the damage entirely.

    I was planning on making more use of Lightning Bolts and bouncing them off the walls, but I didn't really have the confidence to fire them off in a party I couldn't completely protect from electricity damage (we just didn't have the spell slots). I only used a few Lightning Bolts in each game, with mixed results. A solo Avenger or Cleric of Talos could zap stuff left and right, but in a party run, a stray Lightning Bolt is pretty good at frying your buddies.

    I'm enjoying the game more now that I'm not trying to do high-end challenge runs. Solo runs just aren't as much fun as party runs.

    ArviaStummvonBordwehrWise_Grimwald
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,865
    @semiticgoddess did you leave the pantaloons in a bag of holding? Anything in containers won't transfer to SoA, so it's easy to get caught out on things that you're not actively using during SoD.

    Wise_Grimwald
  • ArviaArvia Member, Moderator Posts: 1,512
    That reminds me of a question I've wanted to ask for a while but always forgot:

    Is the Big Metal Unit worth it? I mean, apart from being a cool Easter Egg?
    I do realize it's a powerful armor and all classes can wear it. But considering how late in the game you can build it, does it make such a big difference for the end of ToB, or do you just get it because it's cool?

    Asking just out of idle curiosity, of course. I doubt I could even reach ToB, let alone do Abazigal's lair, in a no-reload run. Farthest I've got is still final battle in BG1...

    BlackravenWise_Grimwald
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,768
    Grond0 wrote: »
    @semiticgoddess did you leave the pantaloons in a bag of holding? Anything in containers won't transfer to SoA, so it's easy to get caught out on things that you're not actively using during SoD.
    I checked. It was outside the Bag of Holding, in the first inventory slot.

    Grond0
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