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Just can't enjoy Siege

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Comments

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,466
    @lefreut Beamdog can't change content in the original games. The canon party of Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir, and Imoen is ALWAYS going to be the case when srtarting BG2. THere is no getting around it. SoD at least gives SOME justification for why these characters come with you at the end of SoD (All of them having story reasons for following ANY charname). As for Safana showing up. It makes perfect sense for the Dukes to hire her in the event of your party missing a thief. I don't see how thats a plot hole at all.

    tbone1Shadowdemon
  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,422
    ThacoBell said:

    As for Safana showing up. It makes perfect sense for the Dukes to hire her in the event of your party missing a thief. I don't see how thats a plot hole at all.

    The party is missing a thief only because Beamdog choose to remove Imoen. I'm fine with not having Imoen during the crusade but I don't understand why they decide that you can't have her at the beginning.

    I only played SoD once (mostly because it's not translated in my language but it's out of topic) and it's been a while so I may not remember correctly but I think that when you start, Safana is forced into your party and you don't even get any dialogue or explanation.

    QuartzPermidion_Stark
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,466
    @leufreut
    Imoen has started her mage training and doesn't have her thief skills. While I personally wish they let you keep Imoen for the intro, it makes sense within the story as written. Safana is also the logical choice for the Dukes to hire for your expedition. Montaron is Zhentarim and dangerously violent, while Alora is too carefree to trust to a sensitive mission. Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414
    ThacoBell said:

    Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

    @ThacoBell - Coran, Skie, Tiax

    ThacoBellQuartz
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,825
    ThacoBell said:

    @leufreut
    Imoen has started her mage training and doesn't have her thief skills. While I personally wish they let you keep Imoen for the intro, it makes sense within the story as written. Safana is also the logical choice for the Dukes to hire for your expedition. Montaron is Zhentarim and dangerously violent, while Alora is too carefree to trust to a sensitive mission. Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

    theres a 4 week time skip after the intro dungeon so she should have been able to be with us during that. just say she started her training after.

    lefreutThacoBellsemiticgodQuartz
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141
    edited June 2018
    The whole "Imoen started her mage training so she can't thieve" is utter nonsense. It's only is a thing because of the rules of D&D.

    I wrote a storied playthrough with charname dualing. I'm not a writer, have no experience writing and managed to come up with a better and more plausible reason for why a character or NPC can no longer thieve. They were seriously injured in a fight so simply couldn't perform the tasks until they healed and therefore did something else.

    Kind of straightforward and pretty much based on realism, people take time to rehabilitate after serious injury. In the meantime they do/learn what they can or something else.

    If you are going to have rules that make a story senseless, adapt the story. They had the stupid poisoning but not poisoning incident in the palace, hey presto, the poison left her somewhat paralised, no thief skills until she fully recovers. In the meantime, she learns magic, it's book based isn't it?

    That uses no reference to arbitary rules that when looked at, fail to convince. Especially as it also gets past the "oh look, I've remembered all my previous skills".
    And for what reason is that pray tell?

    QuartzPermidion_Stark
  • UnderstandMouseMagicUnderstandMouseMagic Member Posts: 2,141
    edited June 2018

    yep. now you don't need to head canon why the canon party is with you at the start of 2 and play whatever party you want in bg1 and sod.

    Instead you have to headcannon why Minsc and Dynaheir are sitting in the Three Kegs when you killed them less than a month ago......

    Yeah, I can really see how that is so much better.....

    Seems to me that whereas BG2 had understandable and forgivable reasons for why the cannon party has to be present at the start of BG2 (constraints on the development, kicks the story off, could be played as a standalone game which many, many people did, ect.), SOD doubles down on the insistance that these NPC are the ones you should play with.

    It dictates evenmore how you should play. But then, with SOD, the whole design is to remove as much "R" from RPG as it possibly could.

    Quartz
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,466

    ThacoBell said:

    Unless I'm missing a thief, that leaves Safana. Who is neutral and is probably used to doing thiefy things for coin.

    @ThacoBell - Coran, Skie, Tiax
    Ah, that's right. How many of them do you trust to hire?

    @UnderstandMouseMagic But Imoen starts BG2 as a Thief>Mage. That needed to be explained. Having take some time off and train under a mage makes perfect sense. SoD also doesn't railroad the playing any harder with the story than any other of the BG titles. You always have to stop the Iron Crisis, You always stop Sarevok, Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir, and Imoen somehow always traveled with you in BG1, you always chase after Irenicus, etc. SoD does an admirable job fitting those retroactive railroads into a coherent storyline.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,510
    edited June 2018
    I honestly don't see SoD as a bridge but as a deck. EET makes it something closer to what a bridge would be.

    Post edited by Raduziel on
    tbone1the_sexteinMirandel
  • the_sexteinthe_sextein Member Posts: 711
    edited June 2018
    I agree, I really like what EET does to help add some interactivity and personal connection during the crossover. I keep checking the site in hopes that the Icewinddale part of the mod is going to come around. Fingers crossed that k4thos shows up at some point.

  • DordledumDordledum Member Posts: 200
    Well, in my first attempt I didn't click with SoD at all. Now on my second playthrough and really enjoying it. Maybe it was my mood or too high expectations first time? Great game, beamdog!

    JuliusBorisovThacoBellStummvonBordwehrBallpointMan
  • VasculioVasculio Member Posts: 431
    I have mixed feelings when it comes to SoD. First, what was the point of Romancing Corwin and Safana? Its not like the romances pick up in Baldurs Gate 2. Sure, this was scripted in way before the 2016 backlash. Where they could have seen them get added later. But even so... Siege of Dragonspear was too linear and too short to have anything solid with them. Second, In terms of New Characters. I HATED the M'Goblin. Just something about her voice and dialog that made me cringe. And Third, Glint. I didn't keep him in my party long enough to know just how *** he really was! Not that theres anything wrong with that! Just... not my cup of tea. Fourth and Finally, The Unfinished Business with the Hoodedman plot. Left a mystery to stay a mystery. Despite the game being mediocre. I think it was good enough be part of the Trilogy.

  • ArtonaArtona Member Posts: 1,025
    Vasculio said:

    First, what was the point of Romancing Corwin and Safana?

    I agree. Every romance in SoD seemed painfully awkward and forced, even in comparison with yuckiness of BG2 romances. Especially Corwin - one or two neutral talks, and then suddenly she admits some attraction. Very bizarre.

    Vasculio
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 1,825
    had it just been the ee npcs that were romanced then it would not have been an issue. but they decided the new npcs , safana, and vicky needed one to. safana's is the real issue as you know it's not gonna last [ but to be fair npc project did the same thing with coran which may be where they got the idea.]

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