Nah, it isn't. And you saying so doesn't make it so.
Also, thacobell is a troll who has a very strange and disturbing obsession with me. He follows me around on almost every thread I am on and deliberately makes disingenuous, trolling statements like the one above, OR he "likes" whatever comment is in disagreement with mine.
At least those darn women get off easy. Simple fix for that whole embarrasing Skie murder... thingy:
Create Female Gorion's Ward. Romance Anomen all the way to the conclusion. And get married to him in Baldur's Gate by Elminster himself. With every damn high-up from the realm present at the wedding.
@UnderstandMouseMagic Out of curiosity, did you play the whole Anomen romance, and was it before or after you already thought of Anomen as a jerk? (I did and it was before I knew anything about Anomen. I still like the romance very much.)
Nah, it isn't. And you saying so doesn't make it so.
Also, thacobell is a troll who has a very strange and disturbing obsession with me. He follows me around on almost every thread I am on and deliberately makes disingenuous, trolling statements like the one above, OR he "likes" whatever comment is in disagreement with mine.
B***S***.
Now you're just being nasty and rude for no reason.
Learn how to debate instead of behaving like a spoilt brat and throwing your toys out of the pram. People disagree with you, get over yourself. And this is coming from someone who does agree with you on some points.
@UnderstandMouseMagic Out of curiosity, did you play the whole Anomen romance, and was it before or after you already thought of Anomen as a jerk? (I did and it was before I knew anything about Anomen. I still like the romance very much.)
Confession time.
I don't mind Anomen and enjoyed the romance. And find it hard to play without him, blowing up vampires is just so satisfying
But it's so much fun taking the micky, how can I resist?
Only in the scope of a standalone game. As an imaginary bridge between the two games... Nah.
People can disagree. Not everyone has to share your opinion.
If you like it, play it and enjoy it. If you don't, skip it and go on to Shadows of Amn.
You're right about that, but it isn't just my opinion. Others have said the same. A good company listens to feedback and improves for their future releases.
Not everyone has to share your opinions either, and I notice quite a few of you saying it is good without any backing, while people like MouseMagic and others share their opinions WITH credible backing.
Whether you liked it or not is not in question here. Whether it makes sense or not and fits the theme of the other two games is. And it doesn't. See above posts for why.
I did already give some specifics earlier in the thread, but I'll go into a bit more detail here to respond to the point about providing backing. Let me preface by saying that everything is just my opinion and I don't expect everyone else to agree (just as I don't agree with many of the opinions of others ).
The thread is titled "just can't enjoy siege" so I think this thread is absolutely about whether the game is enjoyable or not. The issue as to whether the events and their timing make sense is a separate question to me, though for most people that had never played the games before I suspect that they would find the transition from BG1 to SoD to BG2 makes more sense than the previous BG1 to BG2.
Some things I found good about SoD that come immediately to mind (not in order of priority):
1) AI improvements The AI in SoD is far better than in the earlier unmodded games. That wouldn't necessarily be a big deal for a new player, but it's a welcome development for someone like me. There are still improvements required - for instance the next patch is expected to address the current behavior of enemies seeking out and following an invisible party - but that shouldn't stop people recognising how much better it is already.
2) Game difficulty Even the biggest fans of the original games recognize that the way the difficulty slider works is not great. SoD is a vast improvement on that with the difficulty level changing not just stats, but the number and type of creatures as well. The Legacy of Bhaal mode, which I now play a lot, was also introduced here (albeit that it was essentially ported in from IWD). I've never actually tried Story Mode, but can see that would be appreciated by some players as well.
3) NPCs I virtually never use NPCs, but it's nice to see some variety. I've read a lot about whether or not the original NPCs are treated properly and don't want to get into that, but the new ones offer an extension to the class types on offer previously and that seems good to me.
4) New class The shaman originated in SoD though it's now been ported to other games. I could be pernickety about some of the detailed mechanics of the class, but I won't be. It's better just to say that Beamdog have done a really good job in providing a class that's unique in its own right, but still falls solidly within the whole range of character types from the original game.
5) Magic items I've seen plenty of comments on what items are found there, but not a lot on the type and quality of items - and that's a shame, because Beamdog have done a good job with those. One of the problems that bedevil mods is that it's easy to introduce items that are too powerful. That hasn't been done in SoD, but the items are still interesting with a range of attributes greater than in the original games (such as benefits to weapon speed, critical hits or slashing damage for instance).
6) Set piece battles Engine limitations meant that large scale encounters were not really feasible in original BG1 and difficult in BG2. They're not really my thing, but I still welcome the attempt to put something new into the games.
7) Dialogue and actions make a difference I play games for the gameplay, not the RPG aspects. However, I recognize a lot of effort has gone into allowing your behavior during the game to change the way it finishes. There are also significantly more options for alternative ways to progress through the game than would be apparent to a new player (assuming they've not read a detailed walkthrough anyway).
8) High quality encounters Even those who dislike the game generally accept there are good things in it, e.g. the Dwarves of Dumathoin dungeon.
I could go on, but hopefully I've made my point in an effort to get the thread back on track. While I can see that there are things in the game that can be irritating and could spoil it for some people, there are also plenty of things that can provide lots of enjoyment to others. It's just a question of opinions and what matters to particular people.
Troll calling and personal attacks are against the site rules. In case you feel attacked or see a violation of the rules, use the flag button or contact a moderator.
Nah, it isn't. And you saying so doesn't make it so.
Also, thacobell is a troll who has a very strange and disturbing obsession with me. He follows me around on almost every thread I am on and deliberately makes disingenuous, trolling statements like the one above, OR he "likes" whatever comment is in disagreement with mine.
@ThacoBell is a likeable fellow (?) who likes a LOT of things and, consequently, a lot of posts, by everyone.
I will add that Liking and Agreeing with posts is how people interact on this forum, because it cuts down on the clutter of "Me too!" posts. If you don't get many of those, or if people consistently like or agree with posts that disagree with you or with which you disagree, that should tell you something - and it's not that you are being persecuted.
@Grond0 makes a lot of good points. I think SOD had its weak parts storywise, but the overall experience was a good one for me. The dungeons were fun, particularly the dwarf/lich thing and the castle dungeons.
One's enjoyment of the game does not need any "backing", by the way, as was suggested by other posters. Liking or disliking this game is not an either/or or true/false proposition. It is an aesthetic experience. I enjoyed it. I will enjoy it again.
Yeah, thanks for the "obvious" but I believe I told you I wouldn't be responding to you again on the other thread, so I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve here.
"Bye luv." And do try to keep the condescending tone down in your posts. This forum is a clique between regular users and admins. Address me again, and I'll report you for harassment.
@Wandering_Ranger "Whether you liked it or not is not in question here. Whether it makes sense or not and fits the theme of the other two games is. And it doesn't. See above posts for why. "
I see a lot of opinion, which is fair. But touting your opinion as objective fact is pretty laughable.
Except I never did, did I? Nice strawman, troll.
Funny how everyone that disagrees with you is a troll. Not the first time you've pulled that card.
@Wandering_Ranger "Whether you liked it or not is not in question here. Whether it makes sense or not and fits the theme of the other two games is. And it doesn't. See above posts for why. "
I see a lot of opinion, which is fair. But touting your opinion as objective fact is pretty laughable.
Except I never did, did I? Nice strawman, troll.
Funny how everyone that disagrees with you is a troll. Not the first time you've pulled that card.
Seriously, if you get away without a warning for that last post, I won't be surprised, since these forums seem to be a clique. I suggest you seek therapy as well. NPD.
For the record, certain people involved in this conversation DID get warnings. Moderation decisions are private and no public details are available. Don't try to solve the matter in-thread. Just report it to moderators. Decisions will be made and consequences will happen.
Can you all, please, be better and continue the thread without personal attacks?
I seriously doubt Dev6 got a warning, otherwise he would not have continued his appalling behavior. This SHOULD be made public so people can see what is going on, and not just have to take your word for it.
I legitimately don't understand comments like those, and they should warrant a warning. Are you an admin? No. Contributing to the thread? No. Trying to tell another member how to behave, despite the fact others are behaving even worse? Yes. Is it your job to do so? No. Kindly be on your way, and review forum rules in the process.
I am not interested in self-righteous bullying cliques ganging up to tell someone ELSE how things should function or how they should respond to trolling. What a joke.
This goes for anyone else. Have you got a bit of "wisdom" for me, that you just HAVE to tell me in order to appear good to others, while obviously ignoring bad behavior from others? Here's some advice: keep it to yourself. Not interested in hearing it in the slightest because you evidently cannot view things objectively, thus what good is your advice?
Sick of this virtue signalling and attempting to make one person look bad, even when they are the one being harassed. Look at this thread and find the exact starting point of when it went off topic to ad hominem: Clue - it didn't start with me, but against me. Seen it on here way too many times with so many members. No wonder it's the same few faces that have stuck around for years - they scare everyone else off. Even the people from the old bioware forums don't frequent much here, if at all. It's a trolling cesspit. They had a good community there, and it hasn't been replicated.
TOP JOB, BEAMDOG! This is exactly why you are viewed so highly by other companies and gamers (yeah, right).
Troll calling and personal attacks are against the site rules. In case you feel attacked or see a violation of the rules, use the flag button or contact a moderator.
Moderation has nothing to do with the game products. Moderators are volunteers from the community.
About going off-topic: your last 7 (seven) comments in this thread are off-topic. All further off-topic comments in this thread will be deleted without any additional warning.
I always wonder if the people who find plot-holes in SoD unbearable also hate Joneleth's plan in SoA: simply, well, *hoping* that Charname will waltz into Spellhold. You can headcannon that Irenicus would do something if Charname chose to screw it and sail to Maztica, but I do not recall anything in the game suggesting that.
Well there's one positive to take from this thread.
I feel like I ought to have another playthrough of SOD. If nothing else than to feed the hate, lol.
And M'khiin, loved M'Khiin.
And to kill Corwin again, can't get enough of killing Corwin. Perhaps romance her first, just to make it really hurt.....Rhomah.......
Shame it happens right at the end and you can't resurrect her to do it all over again. Unless I RP that she gets killed in every battle (by me) and everytime I have to come up with some alibi or excuse as to why.
i've never actually killed corwin. i always got the good ending.
You don't know what you are missing......come to the dark side (but make sure you have a whole bunch of detonation arrows at your disposal, then it gets really fun).
My second favourite NPC in the whole series. M'khiin is great.
I found I could only defeat the dragon one way, anything else didn't work. Could well be I'm not good enough but didn't really have much fun with it. Plus it was too casual, dragon's should get a build up.
I prefered the fight with the ghost one, now that was innovative. Party split, two groups fighting in different places and one NPC having to keep the dragon occupied.
There's plenty of things I dislike about SoD (just abandoned a run in it due to disinterest, RIP Benjamin Bunny), and a few fairly interesting set pieces. Most overwhelmingly, it ultimately just feels a bit pointless in the end.
Why get loot? I have gear already, and any of the new loot is a sidegrade at best. Why get gold? The game's short and linear and there's barely anything to buy. Heck, why is CHARNAME even there?
Sarevok: Powers that be are clueless to the threat, he's manipulating them into starting a war, personal connection with CHARNAME, highly motivated to send multiple assassins after him, kills Gorion, plunging region into crisis which only an adventurer can handle due to: Crossing state lines to continue investigating deeper and deeper into the crisis ultimately to thwart an attempted coup. His scheme for godhood would have succeeded without CHARNAME's intervention (possibly not leading to godhood, but still, good try for a Fighter).
Irenicus: Powers that be are clueless to the threat, he's amassing power to attain real ultimate power, personal connection with CHARNAME, tortures Imoen and CHARNAME, kidnaps Imoen etc. Only CHARNAME can handle him as the state cannot handle firepower of that magnitude, and the state has been occupied elsewhere with a Drow invasion arranged by Irenicus. His schemes for godhood would have succeeded without CHARNAME's intervention.
Mellissan: Powers that be are clueless to the threat. She's gathering people like CHARNAME together and directly pushing for CHARNAME to handle literally epic threats. Only CHARNAME can handle these threats as they literally exceed the reasonable capacity of your average country to handle, up to the purely personal confrontation between demigods duking it out for supremacy. Her schemes for godhood would have succeeded without CHARNAME's intervention.
Caelar: Powers that be are well aware of the threat and already dealing with it. She is in another country doing her own thing. She has ultimately no connection to CHARNAME whatsoever, mildly inconveniences CHARNAME and Imoen (mainly because nobody would let CHARNAME cast Slow Poison or just stab and raise her as usual). There is literally a coalition army already en route going to end her crusade.
Her schemes for going to hell and dying will probably succeed with or without CHARNAME raising a finger, they may lead to a demonic incursion or not, with an army right there to deal with it, whether she succeeds or fails is largely irrelevant, but has a good chance of failing without CHARNAME's intervention and is generally a political matter, not a personal one.
If the BG trilogy was Star Wars, SoD is the Phantom Menace, starting with a Trade Dispute, answering questions that nobody needed to know, throwing in flashy, but ultimately less satisfying, combat, and a bunch of characters that are never seen again and nobody really cares about in the long run.
Comments
Also, thacobell is a troll who has a very strange and disturbing obsession with me. He follows me around on almost every thread I am on and deliberately makes disingenuous, trolling statements like the one above, OR he "likes" whatever comment is in disagreement with mine.
On the one hand I get thrown in jail, maybe even hung (pretty sure Faerun has the death penalty).
On the other I get to spend eternity with Anomen (believe me, it will feel like eternity).
No contest,
Option number one.
And people say women get off easy, pah. Bloody patriarchy.
Now you're just being nasty and rude for no reason.
Learn how to debate instead of behaving like a spoilt brat and throwing your toys out of the pram. People disagree with you, get over yourself.
And this is coming from someone who does agree with you on some points.
blowing up vampires is just so satisfying
But it's so much fun taking the micky, how can I resist?
The thread is titled "just can't enjoy siege" so I think this thread is absolutely about whether the game is enjoyable or not. The issue as to whether the events and their timing make sense is a separate question to me, though for most people that had never played the games before I suspect that they would find the transition from BG1 to SoD to BG2 makes more sense than the previous BG1 to BG2.
Some things I found good about SoD that come immediately to mind (not in order of priority):
1) AI improvements
The AI in SoD is far better than in the earlier unmodded games. That wouldn't necessarily be a big deal for a new player, but it's a welcome development for someone like me. There are still improvements required - for instance the next patch is expected to address the current behavior of enemies seeking out and following an invisible party - but that shouldn't stop people recognising how much better it is already.
2) Game difficulty
Even the biggest fans of the original games recognize that the way the difficulty slider works is not great. SoD is a vast improvement on that with the difficulty level changing not just stats, but the number and type of creatures as well. The Legacy of Bhaal mode, which I now play a lot, was also introduced here (albeit that it was essentially ported in from IWD). I've never actually tried Story Mode, but can see that would be appreciated by some players as well.
3) NPCs
I virtually never use NPCs, but it's nice to see some variety. I've read a lot about whether or not the original NPCs are treated properly and don't want to get into that, but the new ones offer an extension to the class types on offer previously and that seems good to me.
4) New class
The shaman originated in SoD though it's now been ported to other games. I could be pernickety about some of the detailed mechanics of the class, but I won't be. It's better just to say that Beamdog have done a really good job in providing a class that's unique in its own right, but still falls solidly within the whole range of character types from the original game.
5) Magic items
I've seen plenty of comments on what items are found there, but not a lot on the type and quality of items - and that's a shame, because Beamdog have done a good job with those. One of the problems that bedevil mods is that it's easy to introduce items that are too powerful. That hasn't been done in SoD, but the items are still interesting with a range of attributes greater than in the original games (such as benefits to weapon speed, critical hits or slashing damage for instance).
6) Set piece battles
Engine limitations meant that large scale encounters were not really feasible in original BG1 and difficult in BG2. They're not really my thing, but I still welcome the attempt to put something new into the games.
7) Dialogue and actions make a difference
I play games for the gameplay, not the RPG aspects. However, I recognize a lot of effort has gone into allowing your behavior during the game to change the way it finishes. There are also significantly more options for alternative ways to progress through the game than would be apparent to a new player (assuming they've not read a detailed walkthrough anyway).
8) High quality encounters
Even those who dislike the game generally accept there are good things in it, e.g. the Dwarves of Dumathoin dungeon.
I could go on, but hopefully I've made my point in an effort to get the thread back on track. While I can see that there are things in the game that can be irritating and could spoil it for some people, there are also plenty of things that can provide lots of enjoyment to others. It's just a question of opinions and what matters to particular people.
I will add that Liking and Agreeing with posts is how people interact on this forum, because it cuts down on the clutter of "Me too!" posts. If you don't get many of those, or if people consistently like or agree with posts that disagree with you or with which you disagree, that should tell you something - and it's not that you are being persecuted.
Peace out.
@Grond0 makes a lot of good points. I think SOD had its weak parts storywise, but the overall experience was a good one for me. The dungeons were fun, particularly the dwarf/lich thing and the castle dungeons.
One's enjoyment of the game does not need any "backing", by the way, as was suggested by other posters. Liking or disliking this game is not an either/or or true/false proposition. It is an aesthetic experience. I enjoyed it. I will enjoy it again.
"Bye luv." And do try to keep the condescending tone down in your posts. This forum is a clique between regular users and admins. Address me again, and I'll report you for harassment.
Peace out.
@Contemplative_Hamster's last post explains it better than I ever could.
Leave me alone and goodbye.
Can you all, please, be better and continue the thread without personal attacks?
I am not interested in self-righteous bullying cliques ganging up to tell someone ELSE how things should function or how they should respond to trolling. What a joke.
This goes for anyone else. Have you got a bit of "wisdom" for me, that you just HAVE to tell me in order to appear good to others, while obviously ignoring bad behavior from others? Here's some advice: keep it to yourself. Not interested in hearing it in the slightest because you evidently cannot view things objectively, thus what good is your advice?
Sick of this virtue signalling and attempting to make one person look bad, even when they are the one being harassed. Look at this thread and find the exact starting point of when it went off topic to ad hominem: Clue - it didn't start with me, but against me. Seen it on here way too many times with so many members. No wonder it's the same few faces that have stuck around for years - they scare everyone else off. Even the people from the old bioware forums don't frequent much here, if at all. It's a trolling cesspit. They had a good community there, and it hasn't been replicated.
TOP JOB, BEAMDOG! This is exactly why you are viewed so highly by other companies and gamers (yeah, right).
A moderator above has clearly asked not to call people trolls. And yet you continue to do so. Moderation has nothing to do with the game products. Moderators are volunteers from the community.
About going off-topic: your last 7 (seven) comments in this thread are off-topic. All further off-topic comments in this thread will be deleted without any additional warning.
Well there's one positive to take from this thread.
I feel like I ought to have another playthrough of SOD.
If nothing else than to feed the hate, lol.
And M'khiin, loved M'Khiin.
And to kill Corwin again, can't get enough of killing Corwin.
Perhaps romance her first, just to make it really hurt.....Rhomah.......
Shame it happens right at the end and you can't resurrect her to do it all over again.
Unless I RP that she gets killed in every battle (by me) and everytime I have to come up with some alibi or excuse as to why.
Could well be I'm not good enough but didn't really have much fun with it.
Plus it was too casual, dragon's should get a build up.
I prefered the fight with the ghost one, now that was innovative. Party split, two groups fighting in different places and one NPC having to keep the dragon occupied.
Most overwhelmingly, it ultimately just feels a bit pointless in the end.
Why get loot? I have gear already, and any of the new loot is a sidegrade at best.
Why get gold? The game's short and linear and there's barely anything to buy.
Heck, why is CHARNAME even there?
Sarevok: Powers that be are clueless to the threat, he's manipulating them into starting a war, personal connection with CHARNAME, highly motivated to send multiple assassins after him, kills Gorion, plunging region into crisis which only an adventurer can handle due to: Crossing state lines to continue investigating deeper and deeper into the crisis ultimately to thwart an attempted coup. His scheme for godhood would have succeeded without CHARNAME's intervention (possibly not leading to godhood, but still, good try for a Fighter).
Irenicus: Powers that be are clueless to the threat, he's amassing power to attain real ultimate power, personal connection with CHARNAME, tortures Imoen and CHARNAME, kidnaps Imoen etc. Only CHARNAME can handle him as the state cannot handle firepower of that magnitude, and the state has been occupied elsewhere with a Drow invasion arranged by Irenicus. His schemes for godhood would have succeeded without CHARNAME's intervention.
Mellissan: Powers that be are clueless to the threat. She's gathering people like CHARNAME together and directly pushing for CHARNAME to handle literally epic threats. Only CHARNAME can handle these threats as they literally exceed the reasonable capacity of your average country to handle, up to the purely personal confrontation between demigods duking it out for supremacy. Her schemes for godhood would have succeeded without CHARNAME's intervention.
Caelar: Powers that be are well aware of the threat and already dealing with it. She is in another country doing her own thing. She has ultimately no connection to CHARNAME whatsoever, mildly inconveniences CHARNAME and Imoen (mainly because nobody would let CHARNAME cast Slow Poison or just stab and raise her as usual). There is literally a coalition army already en route going to end her crusade.
Her schemes for going to hell and dying will probably succeed with or without CHARNAME raising a finger, they may lead to a demonic incursion or not, with an army right there to deal with it, whether she succeeds or fails is largely irrelevant, but has a good chance of failing without CHARNAME's intervention and is generally a political matter, not a personal one.
If the BG trilogy was Star Wars, SoD is the Phantom Menace, starting with a Trade Dispute, answering questions that nobody needed to know, throwing in flashy, but ultimately less satisfying, combat, and a bunch of characters that are never seen again and nobody really cares about in the long run.