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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Also to add with Clinton, his sex life should have NEVER been part of the investigation.

    Watergate was suppose to be about real estate transactions. How it ended with stained blue dresses and cigars should be the definition of losing the scope of an investigation.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I think it's reasonable for an investigation to delve into multiple leads. I don't think Clinton's sex life was problematic (if it was rape allegations rather than adultery, that would be a very different story), but if Whitewater uncovered evidence of crimes unrelated to its original scope, it should have been expanded.

    I see no reason the Mueller investigation can't delve into Trump's finances. After all, it's not like there's an existing FBI investigation into Trump's finances.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Whitewater, but yes. That investigation started in 1994, and by 1998 somehow morphed into what it became. This was after a perfectly reasonable Special Prosecutor named Robert Fiske was replaced by Ken Starr, who unlike Mueller was nakedly partisan. Also unlike Mueller, Starr's team leaked like a sieve to the press. Who facilitated many of those leaks?? None other than Brett Kavanaugh.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,395

    edit/add: two Kavanaugh accusers have since come out and recanted their stories as being pure fabrication. It is time to let that issue go given that those false accusers, who had no proof, have set back *real* victims of assault by a decade. That will be all I have to say on that subject.

    As others have suggested this is highly misleading by giving the impression that the major accusations against him have been withdrawn and never had any substance. This is certainly the impression Trump has been trying to create recently, but as with so much else he says it's clearly and obviously not true.

    I had to do a bit of research to find out what you meant by the two accusers who recanted. One was Munro-Leighton who admitted falsely claiming she wrote an anonymous letter accusing Kavanaugh of rape (the actual writer of the note is still not known). That note was passed to Congress, although this was not generally reported. I assume the other one you're referring to was a man (never identified) who recanted an allegation, which was even less reported on.

    I would imagine that Ford, Ramirez and Swetnick would welcome any legal action taken against them. That would allow a proper investigation and process of discovery to take place. It would also put the shoe on the other foot with respect to the burden of proof. Even though that should not have been relevant in the Congressional proceedings, it certainly was relevant in determining that nothing had been proven against Kavanaugh. Proving, to a criminal standard, events so long ago would never have been easy even if witnesses had been spoken to and other evidence followed up (I still find it hard to believe though that an FBI investigation, even one with restricted terms of reference and conducted by friends of Kavanaugh, could have failed to follow up evidence on Kavanaugh's own calendar that he put forward himself to Congress). However, in order to demonstrate defamation Kavanaugh would have to prove the allegations were not true - given there's quite a bit of corroborating evidence for those I'm pretty sure that would be impossible to prove. I'm also pretty sure that Kavanaugh knows that and, even if he's not the most brilliant legal mind around, he's intelligent enough not to start proceedings.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I looked up the statement that Kavanaugh's accusers recanted on Politifact, and... they didn't.

    ASK FACTCHECK
    Ford Did Not Recant Accusations Against Kavanaugh

    Q: Did Christine Blasey Ford recant her accusations of sexual assault against Brett Kavanaugh?

    A: No. Comments by President Trump may have left that impression. But he was referring to a little-known case that had nothing to do with Ford.

    FULL QUESTION
    President Trump has claimed several times that Ms. Ford now admits that she never met Judge Kavanaugh, and the sexual assault she claimed occurred in fact never happened. Is this True?

    FULL ANSWER
    During a rally in Missouri the night before the midterm elections, President Donald Trump said that “the accuser of Brett Kavanaugh” has “admitted she never met him, she never saw him … it was false accusations, it was a scam, it was fake.”

    Trump, Nov. 5: And you saw what happened on Friday, also. We had great jobs numbers, but we also had something else. The accuser of Brett Kavanaugh, a man who is a fine man, the accuser admitted she never met him, she never saw him, he never touched her, talked to her, he had nothing to do with her, she made up the story, it was false accusations, it was a scam, it was fake. It was all fake. And you know, when that came about, people were calling for him to immediately get out. Think of that. Think if he would have done that, and then we found out that it was all false accusations. False statements. A made-up story. And let’s look at the rest of them please. Let’s look at the rest of them. Because that man suffered.

    Trump had made similar comments at a rally in Montana two days earlier, saying that “one of [Kavanaugh’s] accusers … just came out a little while ago and said it was all a lie; that she never met now-Justice Kavanaugh. … It was a made-up story.”

    The same day, Trump tweeted a similar statement:


    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump
    A vicious accuser of Justice Kavanaugh has just admitted that she was lying, her story was totally made up, or FAKE! Can you imagine if he didn’t become a Justice of the Supreme Court because of her disgusting False Statements. What about the others? Where are the Dems on this?

    8:38 AM - Nov 3, 2018
    153K
    69.7K people are talking about this
    Twitter Ads info and privacy
    Dozens of our readers have written to us about this, some of them asking if Ford — the woman who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee about her allegations of sexual assault by Kavanaugh — had recanted her claims. That’s not accurate.

    Some readers referred to headlines of articles about a Kavanaugh accuser admitting to making up her story and assumed it was about Ford, even though the ensuing stories made clear it was not.

    It is certainly understandable that some assumed Trump was talking about Ford when he referred to “the accuser of Brett Kavanaugh.” Ford was by far the most publicly identified Kavanaugh accuser, and the only one to personally testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee, an event watched by millions around the country. Ford said Kavanaugh had sexually assaulted her when the two were in high school 36 years ago.

    In fact, though, Trump was referring to a bit player in the Kavanaugh saga, a woman who admitted that she falsely claimed to have penned an anonymous letter claiming that Kavanaugh and another man had raped her.

    The handwritten anonymous letter in question was sent to Democratic Sen. Kamala Harris’ office, which immediately passed the letter along to Senate Judiciary Committee investigators on Sept. 25. The letter, signed “Jane Doe” from Oceanside, California, alleged that Kavanaugh and another man raped her in the backseat of a car. On Sept. 26, Senate committee staff questioned Kavanaugh about the accusations in the letter. Kavanaugh said the claim was “ridiculous,” “a crock” and “didn’t happen.” A transcript of the interview and the text of the letter were publicly released by the committee that day, and a few media outlets — but only a few — reported on it.

    On Oct. 3, two days before the Senate narrowly confirmed Kavanaugh, the judiciary committee got an email from Judy Munro-Leighton in which she claimed to be “Jane Doe from Oceanside CA.” However, during a phone interview with judiciary investigators on Nov. 1, Munro-Leighton “admitted, contrary to her prior claims, that she had not been sexually assaulted by Judge Kavanaugh and was not the author of the original ‘Jane Doe’ letter,” according to a letter from Sen. Chuck Grassley referring Munro-Leighton to the attorney general and FBI for investigation into possible charges: making a materially false statement to a Senate committee and obstruction. According to Grassley’s letter, Munro-Leighton said she made up the story to “grab attention” and that it was “just a ploy” to oppose Kavanaugh’s confirmation.

    To be clear, though, Senate investigators don’t know who wrote the original, anonymous letter that was sent to Harris’ office, only that it wasn’t Munro-Leighton.

    As we said, the allegations contained in the anonymous letter were not widely reported by national media outlets, certainly not as widely as the allegations made by Ford, Deborah Ramirez — a classmate of Kavanaugh’s at Yale who said he exposed himself to her at a party — and Julie Swetnick — who claimed she witnessed Kavanaugh grabbing women inappropriately.

    In addition to Munroe-Leighton, Grassley referred Swetnick and her attorney, Michael Avenatti, to the Justice Department for criminal investigation related to a potential conspiracy to provide materially false statements to Congress and obstruction.

    No referral has been made for Ford or Ramirez.

    Trump initially said he found Ford’s testimony “very compelling” and that she was a “very credible witness.” But he later mocked her memory of the event — in some cases falsely — and repeatedly questioned its truth. After Kavanaugh’s confirmation, Trump said he was “100 percent certain” that Kavanaugh did not commit any sexual assault.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Even Fox News is getting in on the act:

    Judge Andrew Napolitano says that assigning Matthew Whitaker as Acting AG is illegal

    Today Fox’s not-quite-so-crazy on air Judge, Anthony Andrew Napolitano, stated that the selection of Jeff Session’s former chief of staff Matthew Whitaker as Acting AG may in fact be illegal because he was never confirmed by the Senate.

    “Under the law, the person running the Department of Justice must have been approved by the United States Senate for some previous position. Even on an interim post,” Napolitano said.

    Napolitano continued saying that next in line for the position is Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.
    “[Whitaker] was not confirmed by the United States Senate for a leadership position at the Justice Department. The White House will have to work this out. Who has been confirmed and who’s next in line? Deputy attorney general Rosenstein,” he said.


    Even if you disagree with Napolitano and feel that as a recess appointment Whitaker can at least serve until the beginning of the new Congress in January, he would still have a problem under the Presidential Vacancies Act to serve up to 210 days because now former AG Sessions specifically stated that he didn’t resign, he was asked to resign which means he was fired and the PVA doesn’t apply.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/7/1810991/-Judge-Anthony-Napolitano-says-that-assigning-Matthew-Whitaker-as-Acting-AG-is-illegal?detail=emaildkre
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694

    Orwellian!!! White House retweets doctored video to depict Jim Acosta as assailant!

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/7/1811136/-Orwellian-White-House-retweets-doctored-video-to-depict-Jim-Acosta-as-assailant?detail=emaildkre

    Morning Digest: Democrats flip New Mexico House seat—that had been called for Republicans

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811050/-Morning-Digest-Democrats-flip-New-Mexico-House-seat-that-had-been-called-for-Republicans?detail=emaildkre

    Mass shooting at California bar leaves 12 dead

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811179/-Mass-shooting-at-California-bar-leaves-12-dead?detail=emaildkre

    Jemele Hill, ESPN Reporter Re-Assigned For Telling The Truth, is Purged from Voter Rolls in Florida.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811162/-Jemele-Hill-ESPN-Reporter-Re-Assigned-For-Telling-The-Truth-Was-Purged-from-Voter-Rolls-in-Florida?detail=emaildkre

    One of election night’s greatest treats was watching Ann Coulter get owned by the internet

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/7/1810927/-One-of-last-night-s-greatest-treats-was-watching-Ann-Coulter-get-owned-by-the-internet?detail=emaildkre

    After the news spread that one of the world’s worst racists, Kris Kobach, had lost his bid to ruin Kansas, most sentient life across the country cheered with joy. But not the completely irrelevant, except as a punchline, Ann Coulter. She was furious.

    Ann Coulter

    @AnnCoulter
    Kansas is dead to me.

    10:32 PM - Nov 6, 2018

    To which the reporter replied...

    Matt Oswalt

    @MattOswaltVA
    did it drop another house on your sister?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2018
    The Florida Governor and Senate races have both tightened into recount territory in the last 2 days. And now we see this, right on time:


    They are just flat-out stealing elections anywhere they can.

    There is nothing more important going on in this country right now than the fact that one party believes everyone should have their vote counted (or even allowed to be made) and one party doesn't. The best thing that has happened to me in this thread in two years was when @ThacoBell mentioned he voted early because I had mentioned it was an option, and that he hadn't been able to in previous years because of his family/economic situation. I don't care who he voted for, it's his RIGHT to be able to do so as easily as possible. One political party is actively trying to strip that right from as many people they think won't vote for them as possible, and one isn't. There isn't really anything else that should matter when that is the case. The Republican Party is actively working against democracy itself.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694

    Trump's racist strategy backfires: 'Candidates who hitched their wagon to Trump lost decidedly'

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/7/1810901/-Trump-s-racist-strategy-backfires-Candidates-who-hitched-their-wagon-to-Trump-lost-decidedly?detail=emaildkre

    Architect of Obamacare repeal just got his comeuppance as his New Jersey seat gets flipped to blue

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/7/1811075/-Architect-of-Obamacare-repeal-just-got-his-comeuppance-as-his-seat-gets-flipped-to-the-color-blue?detail=emaildkre

    He went viral for defending his lesbian moms—now he's a state senator at 27

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/7/1810844/-He-went-viral-for-defending-his-lesbian-moms-now-he-s-a-state-senator-at-27?detail=emaildkre

    California shooting: Ian David Long identified as gunman who killed 12

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4643171/california-country-bar-shooting-david-ian-long/?utm_source=notification/

    How to explain to someone living abroad that Democrats can have over 10 million more Senate votes and still lose

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/11/07/how-explain-someone-living-abroad-that-democrats-can-have-over-million-more-senate-votes-still-lose/?fbclid=IwAR01LDYsQCnVRCR8oIm5S-UEYabGlv5H3hFAGP-0_EYq1OBn0EpYDzs4sP8&utm_term=.79de2b0976c0

    In Alabama, Fertilized Eggs Are Now People

    https://rewire.news/ablc/2018/11/07/in-alabama-fertilized-eggs-are-now-people/?fbclid=IwAR2_FescLnQ1G5oJ-WrgBQ6d86_NyoLPDLlCO6BE6BHPxq-4DDKbF-xy284

    Court Rules That Medical Marijuana Card Holders Can't Buy Firearms

    http://fortune.com/2016/09/01/medical-marijuana-gun/?utm_source=facebook.com&fbclid=IwAR1Z03CV711toqU0GrQYmXD78i5qsfXzukolzOUj426ynCWRC6rQTEbJt3U

    More Than 55,000 Vote For Nazi Leader In Illinois Congressional Race

    https://forward.com/fast-forward/413746/more-than-55-000-vote-for-nazi-leader-in-illinois-congressional-race/

    Donald Trump borrows from the old tricks of fascism

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/30/trump-borrows-tricks-of-fascism-pittsburgh?fbclid=IwAR07WeG6isYi13BqQFYGDcxly77SU1YvqbWsPPSm8rykoDFHZsqPbEJZR7s

    Does Hearing Christmas Music in Early November Enrage You? You're Not Alone

    http://mentalfloss.com/article/562877/psychology-why-you-hate-early-christmas-music?fbclid=IwAR0JezDIeYirmRRV9pKxSK37lmEVfVg2pY8ZuGc8zELfn3Ap68Xne80FIVQ

    Megachurch Pastor: ‘Woman Has No Right Over Her Own Body – It Belongs To God’

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/11/megachurch-pastor-woman-has-no-right-over-her-own-body-it-belongs-to-god/?fbclid=IwAR3ehrVkw0IjGFfDD34D8XEuTeDiVzgVgomzT4q2yuouZILXbBZ1d5VsA7U
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2018
    At this point I am going to straight-up advocate national automatic voting registration when you are 18, and as long as you don't move out of state or aren't ACTIVELY serving time for a criminal conviction, you get to vote there FOREVER. No more of this provisional bullshit. No more purging of voter rolls. If you are 18 and a citizen who is not currently serving a felony conviction, you have the right to vote. Period. Enough of this bullshit. It's gone on far too long. Make Election Day a National Holiday. No one should have to worry about not being able to pay rent to vote. People can't take 4 hours out of their day when they have to feed their kids. Voting should not be like applying for a f*****g mortgage. Every state must allow early voting, vote by mail, and same day registration. We have 50 different systems and none of them are uniform. It's a complete joke.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Re: More Than 55,000 Vote For Nazi Leader In Illinois Congressional Race
    https://forward.com/fast-forward/413746/more-than-55-000-vote-for-nazi-leader-in-illinois-congressional-race/

    Republicans voted for Nazis. Neo-nazi Arthur Jones had like 55k votes but lost. The most racist white supremacist of the Republican party, Steve King, was re-elected. A dead pimp and two guys under serious felony indictment won their elections as Republicans.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2018

    Re: More Than 55,000 Vote For Nazi Leader In Illinois Congressional Race
    https://forward.com/fast-forward/413746/more-than-55-000-vote-for-nazi-leader-in-illinois-congressional-race/

    Republicans voted for Nazis. Neo-nazi Arthur Jones had like 55k votes but lost. The most racist white supremacist of the Republican party, Steve King, was re-elected. A dead pimp and two guys under serious felony indictment won their elections as Republicans.

    On the one hand, he was SOUNDLY defeated. On the other hand, fully 26% of the people in that district voted for an avowed Nazi who everyone was clearly familiar with. I'm not sure if that is good news or absolutely terrifying.

    Andrew Gillum has basically been forced to unconcede in Florida because the vote has gotten so tight. Georgia and Florida are going to be in the news for weeks, possibly even into the New Year.

    There are rumors floating that Chris Christie may be the new Attorney General after the lame duck. Nothing like having a Governor who shut down a bridge as political retaliation against an entire city be the next top law enforcement official in the country.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694

    Georgia Officials Kept Hundreds of Voting Machines Locked in Warehouses on Election Day

    https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/georgia-officials-kept-hundreds-of-voting-machines-locked-in-warehouses-on-election-day/?fbclid=IwAR3-WCAytThZtlI7pYYD-39tRFKtfRtrywuDsaGqVcqLusbAfTgklue9eTk

    Las Vegas massacre survivors were in California bar during shooting

    https://nypost.com/2018/11/08/las-vegas-massacre-survivors-were-in-california-bar-during-shooting/?fbclid=IwAR0Y-vGPnJfUfWyrpIgHqEH_gH0hFPydqsYHZK00YBdE6PHUOHdVoDFK58M

    Gillum statement stokes intrigue as Florida vote margin tightens

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/gillum-statement-stokes-intrigue-florida-vote-margin-tightens-n934081?cid=sm_npd_ms_tw_ma&fbclid=IwAR1y9x0IlA5YIpYwqVzacTjS-AKYbuTDFbLjrSenyMXFhE4gl4X1fevaO0w

    Florida now likely to face three ballot recounts as statewide races tighten

    https://wsvn.com/news/local/florida-now-likely-to-face-three-ballot-recounts-as-statewide-races-tighten/

    Ian David Long, California shooter, was Marine maybe suffering PTSD

    https://nypost.com/2018/11/08/bar-shooter-was-ex-marine-who-mightve-suffered-from-ptsd-cops/?fbclid=IwAR3d5-WX6pAjEO7fS2aV1L8FA1cOCeCCaY7OPk2PZJ1KQXN-BTqXZ9l36ms

    House Democrats plan to bring Russia back to the forefront

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/07/politics/russia-investigation-congress-midterm-results/index.html?fbclid=IwAR008Mor5aWw3uCZSU5ehwD7s4Slht5d8lXNWqCre2Bxp5bYVaXiaYCeEaI

    Fox News legal analyst says Trump violated the law by appointing Matt Whitaker as acting attorney general

    https://www.rawstory.com/2018/11/fox-news-legal-analyst-says-trump-violated-the-law-by-appointing-matt-whitaker-as-acting-attorney-general/?fbclid=IwAR0KlYK1Txmzs2T1xxMS3nRarDVU41z12vgGZm5Ebl7ug_KjpfFVyV991IM

    Georgia Democrat Lucy McBath beats GOP Rep. Karen Handel following tight race

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/politics/2018-elections-lucy-mcbath-karen-handel-concedes-georgia-congress/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1gH9hQE9qCzaLQOjMCCnNvAKNCruY5R7A0FzcagJjXDAmO6DcQlzpztIU

    Mueller has powerful new House allies as he bears down on Trump

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/07/mueller-house-democratic-majority-970325?fbclid=IwAR3hcsOGeYD_7RQJQMitt9Eyl2ygMLGD0Os-0JVUz6L3EgA8W95Fjs-XA9E

    Sarah Huckabee Sanders Denies Doctoring Footage Showing Jim Acosta In Clown Makeup Blowing Up Gotham Hospital

    https://politics.theonion.com/sarah-huckabee-sanders-denies-doctoring-footage-showing-1830314031?utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3XOiQElJTUmSUfC45jQO7Ql43wxQ7tlOBXN0xcz8lu39H6-zpgo_yO-pg
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    At this point I am going to straight-up advocate national automatic voting registration when you are 18, and as long as you don't move out of state or aren't ACTIVELY serving time for a criminal conviction, you get to vote there FOREVER. No more of this provisional bullshit. No more purging of voter rolls. If you are 18 and a citizen who is not currently serving a felony conviction, you have the right to vote. Period. Enough of this bullshit. It's gone on far too long. Make Election Day a National Holiday. No one should have to worry about not being able to pay rent to vote. People can't take 4 hours out of their day when they have to feed their kids. Voting should not be like applying for a f*****g mortgage. Every state must allow early voting, vote by mail, and same day registration. We have 50 different systems and none of them are uniform. It's a complete joke.

    I still don't get why felons are not allowed to vote. They are citizens of the country and government policies (such as privatizing prisons) effect them.

    A federal law that states same day registration should be mandatory would fix all the other BS.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    At this point I am going to straight-up advocate national automatic voting registration when you are 18, and as long as you don't move out of state or aren't ACTIVELY serving time for a criminal conviction, you get to vote there FOREVER. No more of this provisional bullshit. No more purging of voter rolls. If you are 18 and a citizen who is not currently serving a felony conviction, you have the right to vote. Period. Enough of this bullshit. It's gone on far too long. Make Election Day a National Holiday. No one should have to worry about not being able to pay rent to vote. People can't take 4 hours out of their day when they have to feed their kids. Voting should not be like applying for a f*****g mortgage. Every state must allow early voting, vote by mail, and same day registration. We have 50 different systems and none of them are uniform. It's a complete joke.

    Same day registration is the only one I dont agree with. It's not like voting day is some big secret that you'll forget about until the day of. It's likely not worth the time at the polls for the few people that would use it.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2018
    deltago said:

    At this point I am going to straight-up advocate national automatic voting registration when you are 18, and as long as you don't move out of state or aren't ACTIVELY serving time for a criminal conviction, you get to vote there FOREVER. No more of this provisional bullshit. No more purging of voter rolls. If you are 18 and a citizen who is not currently serving a felony conviction, you have the right to vote. Period. Enough of this bullshit. It's gone on far too long. Make Election Day a National Holiday. No one should have to worry about not being able to pay rent to vote. People can't take 4 hours out of their day when they have to feed their kids. Voting should not be like applying for a f*****g mortgage. Every state must allow early voting, vote by mail, and same day registration. We have 50 different systems and none of them are uniform. It's a complete joke.

    I still don't get why felons are not allowed to vote. They are citizens of the country and government policies (such as privatizing prisons) effect them.

    A federal law that states same day registration should be mandatory would fix all the other BS.

    Well Florida just restored the right of EX-felons on election night (which to me is a no-brainer if you expect them to be functional citizens). I don't know how anyone is going to sell the idea that people who are currently in prison get to vote. That is never going to play in this country. I'm not opposed to it on principle, but there is no way it's going to happen. You are never going to be able to generate enough sympathy for that group of people to make such a move a reality, and whatever party suggested it would see campaign ads talking about them going to bat for murderers and rapists (you know, kinda like Trump does now if you are simply a Mexican immigrant).

    Again, if you have served whatever your sentence is, there is no way in hell you shouldn't get your voting rights back that very day. But no one is going to advocate wheeling voting machines into prisons. It would be political suicide.

    Of course this brings up the fact that many people are prison are serving time for innocuous drug possession charges, but giving those people the right to vote in prison isn't going to be the most efficient way to address that. Making sure they are never put in prison for that crime in the first place is. I'm very far to the left, but I'm not so far gone as to think pictures of criminals in the prison yard casting ballots is a net positive for the cause. There are things you can sell in America and things you can't. This is one of the things you can't.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2018
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2018
    Early on Election Night, many Democrats were experiencing some PTSD from 2016. Early returns didn't quite go as swimmingly as had been hoped, and alot of people (including me) started to get a sense of doom and gloom. As the night and days have gone on, the size of the victory has become alot clearer. The gains in state legislatures were immense. Their gain in the House is now looking to top out at 38, far better than was suspected on election night. With the real possibility of winning the Arizona Senate race and recounts and run-offs possible in both Florida and Georgia, we may be looking at a situation where despite having the best Senate map in decades, Republicans may only end up really gaining a single Senate seat, juxtaposed to a takeover of the House, a significant gain in Governor's mansions, and a major, grass roots step in retaking the nearly 1000 state-level seats lost in the last decade.

    The real telling story today from actual election results today was the GA-06. Most of us will remember this was the race that held the very first special election after Trump's victory, where John Ossof came up JUST short in a deep red district just months after Trump's election. Today, Karen Handel was officially beaten for that same seat by Lucy McBath, a mother who ran for the seat specifically because her son Jordan Davis was shot to death by a man at a gas station because the killer thought he was playing his rap music too loud. It took alot of work, but they finally got the seat that was the first signal this House takeover was possible almost two years ago.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    LadyRhian said:
    I honestly don't see how this level of sabotage of an election could possibly be legal. If a private citizen did this, wouldn't they go to prison?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    LadyRhian said:
    I honestly don't see how this level of sabotage of an election could possibly be legal. If a private citizen did this, wouldn't they go to prison?
    Kemp leads by only 70,000 votes. It's estimated he purged at least 350,000 from the rolls, possibly up to 750,000. When you add to THAT fact the clear practice of purposefully creating long lines in heavily African-American precincts, you end up with an election result that is impossible to take seriously. Stacey Abrams should never concede this race just on sheer principle alone.

    In Florida, the margins continue to get even tighter, approaching hand recount territory. I swear to god, if the choice in Florida was between vanilla ice cream and a kick to the head, the results would come back 50/50.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,653
    To put this midterm in perspective, at this time during the Obama admins midterms, they lost 63 House seats and 6 Senate seats.

    During Bush's first midterm he just gained seats, but given that it was shortly after 9/11 that's probably why.

    Bush lost 31 House seats and 6 Senate seats during his second midterm.

    Bill Clinton lost 8 Senate seats, 54 House seats during his first midterm.

    So far, Trump lost 30 House seats and gained 2 Senate seats.

    I'd call his performance solidly above average.



  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694

    Arizona Republicans sue to keep some votes from being counted

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811203/-Arizona-Republicans-sue-to-keep-some-votes-from-being-counted?detail=emaildkre

    Mueller working on final report, Trump hasn't turned in his homework, Whitaker won't recuse

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811225/-Mueller-working-on-final-report-Trump-hasn-t-turned-in-his-homework-Whitaker-won-t-recuse?detail=emaildkre

    Georgia's down-ballot progress runs deep for Democrats

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811193/-Georgia-s-down-ballot-progress-runs-deep-for-Democrats?detail=emaildkre

    Key Florida races headed to recount; in Georgia, Abrams pushes for every vote to be counted

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811209/-Key-Florida-races-headed-to-recount-in-Georgia-Abrams-pushes-for-every-vote-to-be-counted?detail=emaildkre

    Wisconsin Republicans plot to weaken governor's powers now that it will be a Democrat

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811230/-Wisconsin-Republicans-plot-to-weaken-governor-s-powers-now-that-it-will-be-a-Democrat?detail=emaildkre

    Arkansas man faces multiple felony 'terroristic threatening' charges for threats to CNN

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811224/-Arkansas-man-faces-multiple-felony-terroristic-threatening-charges-for-threats-to-CNN?detail=emaildkre

    In Georgia, Kemp declares victory while ignoring thousands of ballots that have not been counted

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811253/-In-Georgia-Kemp-declares-victory-while-ignoring-thousands-of-ballots-that-have-not-been-counted?detail=emaildkre

    Matthew Whitaker's work as a scam artist and threatening bully makes him the perfect Trump AG

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811192/-Matthew-Whitaker-s-work-as-a-scam-artist-and-threatening-bully-makes-him-the-perfect-Trump-AG?detail=emaildkre

    105 days past federal judge's deadline, migrant kids are still separated from parents

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/8/1811216/-105-days-past-federal-judge-s-deadline-migrant-kids-are-still-separated-from-parents?detail=emaildkre
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,653

    LadyRhian said:
    I honestly don't see how this level of sabotage of an election could possibly be legal. If a private citizen did this, wouldn't they go to prison?
    Kemp leads by only 70,000 votes. It's estimated he purged at least 350,000 from the rolls, possibly up to 750,000. When you add to THAT fact the clear practice of purposefully creating long lines in heavily African-American precincts, you end up with an election result that is impossible to take seriously. Stacey Abrams should never concede this race just on sheer principle alone.

    In Florida, the margins continue to get even tighter, approaching hand recount territory. I swear to god, if the choice in Florida was between vanilla ice cream and a kick to the head, the results would come back 50/50.
    You keep bringing up this process of voter roll purging, but it is a routine part of maintining voter roll databases. Literally every state does it. So the charge of just purging voter rolls is like charging a man with changing the oil in his car.

    Is there actual evidence he is purging voting citizens intentionally to influence the election? That is a serious charge and if he is doing it he should be in jail for it.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    @LadyRhian posted:

    Ian David Long, California shooter, was Marine maybe suffering PTSD

    https://nypost.com/2018/11/08/bar-shooter-was-ex-marine-who-mightve-suffered-from-ptsd-cops/?fbclid=IwAR3d5-WX6pAjEO7fS2aV1L8FA1cOCeCCaY7OPk2PZJ1KQXN-BTqXZ9l36ms

    Interesting. Great going ol' NYPost, that's really great. I'm sure the NRA will eat that up. "See it's them mentally ill folks that's the only problem with guns."
    They have the gall to suggest blame on something that is not even confirmed to play into the lie of how dangerous all us neurodivirgents really are. It makes me wonder how thorough and qualified the mental health professions were that visited him in the past were. That includes times spent and follow up visits (if any). I just don't like to see papers print things that tend to increase discrimination, rather that reduce it. :(
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Zaghoul That doesn't make me have any sympathy for him.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    LadyRhian said:
    I honestly don't see how this level of sabotage of an election could possibly be legal. If a private citizen did this, wouldn't they go to prison?
    Kemp leads by only 70,000 votes. It's estimated he purged at least 350,000 from the rolls, possibly up to 750,000. When you add to THAT fact the clear practice of purposefully creating long lines in heavily African-American precincts, you end up with an election result that is impossible to take seriously. Stacey Abrams should never concede this race just on sheer principle alone.

    In Florida, the margins continue to get even tighter, approaching hand recount territory. I swear to god, if the choice in Florida was between vanilla ice cream and a kick to the head, the results would come back 50/50.
    You keep bringing up this process of voter roll purging, but it is a routine part of maintining voter roll databases. Literally every state does it. So the charge of just purging voter rolls is like charging a man with changing the oil in his car.

    Is there actual evidence he is purging voting citizens intentionally to influence the election? That is a serious charge and if he is doing it he should be in jail for it.
    I agree here. besides that one guy who threatened to come back with a gun, you'd think people would be able to find groups of people who showed up on election day and told they were not allowed to vote and raise a stink about that.

    I've heard people getting frustrated and leaving after encountering long lines which is their choice to leave (priorities) but unacceptable with wait times but I haven't heard of too many accounts of people being denied to cast a ballot because they were no longer registered after they thought they were.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2018
    deltago said:

    LadyRhian said:
    I honestly don't see how this level of sabotage of an election could possibly be legal. If a private citizen did this, wouldn't they go to prison?
    Kemp leads by only 70,000 votes. It's estimated he purged at least 350,000 from the rolls, possibly up to 750,000. When you add to THAT fact the clear practice of purposefully creating long lines in heavily African-American precincts, you end up with an election result that is impossible to take seriously. Stacey Abrams should never concede this race just on sheer principle alone.

    In Florida, the margins continue to get even tighter, approaching hand recount territory. I swear to god, if the choice in Florida was between vanilla ice cream and a kick to the head, the results would come back 50/50.
    You keep bringing up this process of voter roll purging, but it is a routine part of maintining voter roll databases. Literally every state does it. So the charge of just purging voter rolls is like charging a man with changing the oil in his car.

    Is there actual evidence he is purging voting citizens intentionally to influence the election? That is a serious charge and if he is doing it he should be in jail for it.
    I agree here. besides that one guy who threatened to come back with a gun, you'd think people would be able to find groups of people who showed up on election day and told they were not allowed to vote and raise a stink about that.

    I've heard people getting frustrated and leaving after encountering long lines which is their choice to leave (priorities) but unacceptable with wait times but I haven't heard of too many accounts of people being denied to cast a ballot because they were no longer registered after they thought they were.

    Yeah, and it's always overwhelmingly black people who have to make the "choice" to leave because they have had polling locations closed in their neighborhood or their machines literally not being supplied power cords, or half the machines that could have been used to alleviate the long lines sitting dormant in a closet. All taking place AFTER the Voting Rights Act was gutted by the Supreme Court, which was, of course, the whole point of the ruling. To make it harder for black people to vote. Which is as American as apple pie.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited November 2018
    Trump Fires Attorney General Jeff Sessions, Here's Why
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGTWZXy2y1w

    TLDW: Trump fired Sessions because Mueller is looking at his finances. In 2017 Whitaker wrote an article for CNN that called on Rosenstein to "limit the scope" of Mueller's investigation and block review of Trump's family finances.

    Mueller is supposedly about to indict charges against Donald Trump Jr. for financial crimes. Whitaker was brought on to stop that because Trump doesn't want his son to face justice.

    Again, Trump brought on Whitaker to limit the probe to the areas where he didn't commit crimes.

    The criminal President brought Whitaker on because "you can look anywhere but don't look at my finances!"

    When the Democrats take over the House and demand his tax returns, which they are allowed to do, Trump will fight it tooth and nail.

    Come on this dude's a criminal. 6 Bankruptcies, money laundering for Russians via selling condos for cash, scams left and right including the years of criminal tax fraud uncovered by the NY times.

    Once Mueller started looking at the finances, Trump feels he has no choice but to obstruct justice. Because he did the crimes. This is the guy that ran a fraud university and settled because he was guilty lol.
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    edited November 2018

    LadyRhian said:
    I honestly don't see how this level of sabotage of an election could possibly be legal. If a private citizen did this, wouldn't they go to prison?
    Kemp leads by only 70,000 votes. It's estimated he purged at least 350,000 from the rolls, possibly up to 750,000. When you add to THAT fact the clear practice of purposefully creating long lines in heavily African-American precincts, you end up with an election result that is impossible to take seriously. Stacey Abrams should never concede this race just on sheer principle alone.

    In Florida, the margins continue to get even tighter, approaching hand recount territory. I swear to god, if the choice in Florida was between vanilla ice cream and a kick to the head, the results would come back 50/50.
    You keep bringing up this process of voter roll purging, but it is a routine part of maintining voter roll databases. Literally every state does it. So the charge of just purging voter rolls is like charging a man with changing the oil in his car.

    Is there actual evidence he is purging voting citizens intentionally to influence the election? That is a serious charge and if he is doing it he should be in jail for it.
    Georgia has, BY FAR purged more than most states as a percentage of it's voter rolls, to the tune of roughly TWICE as much.

    How much?

    About a quarter of the population over the last 8 years. Georgia has about 10.5M people. Took office in 2010. Between 2012 and 2016 he purged 1.5 million. In 2017 purged almost 700,000. Purged another 70k this year.

    Don't even get in on the biased nature of the purgings.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,653
    edited November 2018
    If high numbers are all there is to go on I would say the state should be called on to justify those numbers, an audit if you will, but I wouldn't immediately assume criminality without more context or evidence, especially given deltago's point that there really hasn't been a single person who has come out and said they were denied voting, which says to me that these may indeed be legitimate purges.
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