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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Hands up if you November 30th as the first reported case of children eating cannabis candy after it went legal in Canada? It actually took longer than I thought, but the limited supply and the country running out may have had something to do with that.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    edited December 2018

    Trump agrees to freeze higher tariffs on $200B in Chinese goods — for now

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/01/politics/trump-china-tariffs/index.html
    So it will stay where it is, and China agrees to buy Soybeans, Energy and some other thing to "help out trade imbalance", so Trump won't raise Tariffs to 25%. But it was hurting us worse than China. So, of course, Trump is praising this to the skies as a big deal, the largest deal ever. :P

    A Plea to Protect the Strand

    https://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-plea-to-protect-strand.html?fbclid=IwAR1GJzLTeaWmKxJXowJGiRV9uDc46Zs3PRLxJeRXpDmR7NNC9zHWHzX_hWc
    The Strand is a very famous, old bookstore in Manhattan. But now the city wants to Landmark it, which means more bureaucracy for the store. I hope the Compleat Strategist sticks around forever, too!

    The ‘War on Christmas’ is back — or rather, people are saying it’s back

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/ffrf-war-christmas-back/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Blog
    "Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke introduced President Trump at the White House’s ceremonial tree lighting earlier this week as “the man who brought Christmas back to America. “This is shocking to those of us who celebrated Christmas last year. And the year before that. And the year before that,” quipped Hemant Mehta."
    I roll my eyes here. Just because people can now say, "Happy Holidays" rather than, "Merry Christmas" all the time.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    LadyRhian said:

    Trump agrees to freeze higher tariffs on $200B in Chinese goods — for now

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/01/politics/trump-china-tariffs/index.html
    So it will stay where it is, and China agrees to buy Soybeans, Energy and some other thing to "help out trade imbalance", so Trump won't raise Tariffs to 25%. But it was hurting us worse than China. So, of course, Trump is praising this to the skies as a big deal, the largest deal ever. :P
    American companies pay the tariffs. They pass on the additional cost to the consumers. So basically his tariffs are extra taxes. Thanks Trump, eh?
    LadyRhian said:


    The ‘War on Christmas’ is back — or rather, people are saying it’s back

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/ffrf-war-christmas-back/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Blog
    "Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke introduced President Trump at the White House’s ceremonial tree lighting earlier this week as “the man who brought Christmas back to America. “This is shocking to those of us who celebrated Christmas last year. And the year before that. And the year before that,” quipped Hemant Mehta."
    I roll my eyes here. Just because people can now say, "Happy Holidays" rather than, "Merry Christmas" all the time.
    What's wrong with happy holidays anyways? Who cares? There's a lot of holidays around this time. So many holidays. The biggest tremendous holidays. Oh right Fox News cares.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2018
    This War on Christmas nugget gets recycled every year and it remains the most tired bullshit I've ever seen in my life. As I repeat every year around this time, there are Christian churches absolutely flooding the landscape of this country. There is a town in the area I grew up in in rural Minnesota that has more churches (3) than houses and antique shops (2 each). There are 3 churches within 5 minutes walking distance of my apartment. Christmas, despite being a religious holiday, has morphed into THE most important national and secular holiday as well, and you couldn't avoid it even if you locked yourself in a closet for all of November and December, because even then you'd still have to deal with the old wrapping paper stored inside. And, once again, people at businesses say "Happy Holidays" because from the end of November to January, there are at least 4 major holidays and people have other shit to do in their life besides name off all of them every time they greet or say goodbye to someone. Brought Christmas back to America......the level of delusion you have to be swimming in to believe it ever went anywhere in the first place in mind-boggling.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694

    LadyRhian said:


    The ‘War on Christmas’ is back — or rather, people are saying it’s back

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/ffrf-war-christmas-back/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Blog
    "Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke introduced President Trump at the White House’s ceremonial tree lighting earlier this week as “the man who brought Christmas back to America. “This is shocking to those of us who celebrated Christmas last year. And the year before that. And the year before that,” quipped Hemant Mehta."
    I roll my eyes here. Just because people can now say, "Happy Holidays" rather than, "Merry Christmas" all the time.
    What's wrong with happy holidays anyways? Who cares? There's a lot of holidays around this time. So many holidays. The biggest tremendous holidays. Oh right Fox News cares.
    I think they and their viewers are the only ones. And I do mean 'the only ones'!
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited December 2018
    Audio:

    Trump:. "Get me outta here!"

    Audience:*laughter*

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Okay. After sleeping through the rain here, I am back with another massive "News" dump. Under Spoiler, of course.

    He’s Built an Empire, With Detained Migrant Children as the Bricks

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/02/us/southwest-key-migrant-children.html
    I should have guessed someone is making a profit off this crap.

    North Carolina Election That Looked to Be Republican Victory Now in Limbo

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/30/us/politics/north-carolina-vote-fraud.html?fbclid=IwAR0jGUSrzZlCVVvjNvFVbfshZep57lOKzoIa4YRS3cbRGwmCpZvyGUJlWoA#click=https://t.co/Kn2xh27raY
    It is unclear how many ballots and voters were affected by any potential fraud, but the state board may order a new election if it finds that “irregularities or improprieties occurred to such an extent that they taint the results of the entire election and cast doubt on its fairness.”

    Note to Trump: The Mueller Probe Costs Roughly $0.00 – Not $40 Million

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/11/trump-tweet-mueller-probe-usd40-million-fact-check-paul-manafort.html?utm_medium=s1&utm_source=fb&utm_campaign=nym&fbclid=IwAR3Rosh4RfLU970rrB9s5lmN4jwqCsQQGZcPrSpwHgmV_gWyGwhBTsSk4yw
    This is because of money and assets seized from Paul Manafort, who is worth between 28 and 42 million dollars. Politifact estimates, based on costs already submitted, that Mueller's investigation may have cost $27 million. Since Manafort is worth more than that, the net cost is $0.

    8 Takeaways from the 2018 Midterms

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/29/1815430/-8-Takeaways-from-the-2018-Midterms?detail=emaildkre
    #1 Yes, it was a wave

    Trump's secretary of labor helped a billionaire sexual predator escape justice

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/30/1816025/-Trump-s-secretary-of-labor-helped-a-billionaire-sexual-predator-escape-justice?detail=emaildkre
    Trump hasn't drained the swamp- he's created one of his own!

    Trump counted on a wall of lies to protect him, and Mueller is knocking it down

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/29/1815973/-Trump-counted-on-a-wall-of-lies-to-protect-him-Mueller-is-knocking-it-down?detail=emaildkre
    Notably, the first public indication that former national security adviser Michael Flynn was going to make a deal with Mueller was when it became public knowledge that his lawyers were withdrawing from just such a joint defense deal. How many of these deals did Trump’s legal team make? According to MSNBC, that number would be 32. Thirty-two. When you have made joint defense agreements with 32 people under threat of criminal indictment, you don’t have an administration: You have a mafia.

    The Trump effect: Swastikas now spreading across college campuses

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/30/1816190/-The-Trump-effect-Swastikas-now-spreading-across-college-campuses?detail=emaildkre
    For those who have any doubt about the connection between Trump and this increase in hate crimes and acts of anti-Semitism, the demonization of Hungarian (and Jewish) billionaire George Soros—by not only Trump but the entire Republican apparatus that preceded the last election—should put those doubts to rest. Soros was blamed by Fox News and the White House itself for funding the so-called migrant “caravan" that Trump warned was a mortal threat to the safety of this country. The attribution of the “caravan" to Soros was the direct impetus for an anti-Semitic monster deliberately murdering eleven people last month at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh.

    Donald Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump are in the hot seat over Trump Tower Moscow

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/30/1816212/-Donald-Trump-Jr-and-Ivanka-Trump-are-in-the-hot-seat-over-Trump-Tower-Moscow?detail=emaildkre
    Multiple sources have confirmed to Yahoo News that the president’s elder daughter, Ivanka, who is now a top White House adviser, and his eldest son, Don Jr., were also working to make Trump Tower Moscow a reality.
    During the campaign for Trump to be President. In 2016, when he was assuring everyone he had no plans to build a Trump Tower in Moscow!

    Has Mueller asked Mitch McConnell what he knew about Trump and Russia? He should

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/29/1816009/-Has-Mueller-interviewed-Mitch-McConnell-about-what-he-knew-about-Trump-and-Russia-He-should?detail=emaildkre
    McConnell has turned into a Trump toady.
    If the infamous private musings of House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy in June 2016 are any indication, Trump's indebtedness to Putin was just assumed. "There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump," McCarthy quipped, a conversation quickly nipped in the bud by House Speaker Paul Ryan. "No leaks," he immediately interjected. "This is how we know we're a real family here."

    Individual One is in trouble—and he knows it

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/30/1816170/-Individual-One-is-in-trouble-and-he-knows-it?detail=emaildkre
    "Individual One" being Trump, of course. My guess is that Trump Tower Moscow was trump's fallback. He didn't think he was going to be President. So hw was going to lose and build the Tower. Then, he won.

    Trump says he's not meeting with Putin, Putin says they're meeting ... guess what happens next

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/30/1816181/-Trump-says-he-s-not-meeting-with-Putin-Putin-says-they-re-meeting-guess-what-happens-next?detail=emaildkre
    They meet. Informally, of course. Trump must respond to his master's voice.
    What does it means to reject a cancellation? Apparently, it’s the same thing as a summons. Because despite Trump’s announcement—Trump and Putin are meeting after all.

    Desperate Trump cabinet secretary berates Democratic critic for alcoholism—in official statement

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/30/1816225/-Trump-interior-secretary-goes-on-the-attack-to-change-the-subject-from-his-own-corruption?detail=emaildkre
    Because nothing says "Desperate" like trying to throw blame on someone else to make your faults not look so bad!

    Farm bankruptcies are surging as Trump's trade war drags on

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/farm-bankruptcies-surging-trump-apos-000000315.html?fbclid=IwAR3msLpSFAEV34CEq8WzSsOBqEtLAVWRObw5_VCKK7nnuNzxWGZ6qs8z7y8
    As Trump would probably say, "I like farmers who didn't go bankrupt."

    Cops seize pipe bombs, rocket launcher, and lots of drugs from white supremacist gangs in Florida

    https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/bjed75/cops-seize-pipe-bombs-rocket-launcher-and-lots-of-drugs-from-white-supremacist-gangs-in-florida?fbclid=IwAR2cDoQkvX8FHFmVoKriOsKQQjOW45nRoRKpVn_fsnqngBOh2LoGjUOe6gM
    Bu nobody talks about White Supremacist Gangs. It's all "MS-13 this" and "MS-13 that"!

    St. Louis Police officers indicted for beating 22-year veteran undercover officer during protests

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/30/1816199/-St-Louis-Police-officers-indicted-for-beating-22-year-veteran-undercover-officer-during-protests?detail=emaildkre
    Now, they are beating their own? I'd say they are at the absolute Nadir.
    The four officers—Dustin Boone, Bailey Colletta, Randy Hays, and Christopher Myers—were indicted on four counts, one of “willfully violating” the undercover officer’s constitutional rights, and three others stemming from their alleged attempts to cover up the whole affair

    Family of slain exchange student joins lawsuit against Texas school shooter's parents

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/29/1815851/-Family-of-slain-exchange-student-joins-lawsuit-against-Texas-school-shooter-s-parents?detail=emaildkre
    Apparently, the main point of the lawsuit is to get parents take better care of their guns. I'm all for that.

    Collins’ PAC made maximum donation in support of Hyde-Smith
    http://mainebeacon.com/collins-pac-made-maximum-donation-in-support-of-hyde-smith/?fbclid=IwAR1Dv-fYyaYzDYtXSkwFYwQd5VlgEpo0iR2mQRvqJMjXMqRCS338RXak-AA
    Hyde-Smith being the lady who said she'd be in the front row at a hanging if one of her contributors invited her.

    Israeli police recommend indicting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu

    https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/2182645002?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1pDVD40f6hoaaFXDGPd6kkuvP2BynI2V4PdzDhSJ4Mz4hKG6FtIVJpzi0
    Dang! When your own country's police are against you, you're sunk!

    Elizabeth Warren Just Took a Crucial Stand for Democracy and Enlightened Internationalism

    https://www.thenation.com/article/elizabeth-warren-american-university-speech/
    Bernie is still the favorite to run for President, though.

    Ivanka denies Daddy authorized ‘lethal force’ at the border—until she’s shown the video

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/28/1815759/-Ivanka-denies-Daddy-authorized-lethal-force-at-the-border-until-she-s-shown-the-video?detail=emaildksp

    Rep. Bob Goodlatte: It's 'awfully tough' for Ivanka Trump to comply with federal email policies

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/27/1815545/-Rep-Bob-Goodlatte-It-s-awfully-tough-for-Ivanka-Trump-to-comply-with-federal-email-policies?detail=emaildksp

    Trump's anti-immigrant hotline was overwhelmed with prank calls reporting space aliens, emails show

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/24/1811331/-Trump-s-anti-immigrant-hotline-was-overwhelmed-with-prank-calls-reporting-space-aliens-emails-show?detail=emaildksp
    Prank calls fully upended the system, leaving operators unable to answer more than 98 percent of incoming calls during the protest as the media relations team attempted to contain the narrative. In reports and emails produced in the first days of operation, ICE officials described an “overwhelming” amount of calls. The day after the launch, the office received more than 16,400. Of those, only a little more than 2,100 were placed into a queue, and only 260 answered. Callers in the queue waited as long as 79 minutes to reach an operator. An official noted that, should the rate of calls continue, they would need an additional 400 operators to field the hotline.

    Misogynists mobilize, threaten to report sex workers to the IRS

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/27/1815598/-Misogynists-mobilize-in-threat-to-report-sex-workers-to-the-IRS?detail=emaildksp
    This includes cam models, dominatrixes, and others.
    n a viral social media campaign known as a “thotaudit,” misogynistic men are threatening to report sex workers to the IRS for tax fraud. For the sake of clarity: “Thot” generally refers to a promiscuous woman, and “audit” here refers to an IRS audit.

    Michigan Republicans move to gut minimum wage and paid sick leave laws

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/28/1815780/-Michigan-Republicans-move-to-gut-minimum-wage-and-paid-sick-leave-laws?detail=emaildksp
    "tis the season... to screw people over.

    First-ever DACA recipient to win Rhodes Scholarship feels 'an immense responsibility' to give back

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/11/24/1815008/-First-ever-DACA-recipient-to-win-Rhodes-Scholarship-feels-an-immense-responsibility-to-give-back?detail=emaildksp
    This is amazing. I love it!
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    edited December 2018
    And more morning Gnus. Spoilered, as usual.

    The Memo: Trump’s Mueller problems deepen, worrying allies

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/419195-the-memo-trumps-mueller-problems-deepen-worrying-allies?userid=322266&fbclid=IwAR3pJ6ldX4KGnzagUU2fcnZvQgSc0ThtHUHeWV5qFl2uZPbxWymaF_IB2NQ
    I'm kind of amazed he still has allies.

    A Complete Analysis Of Trump’s 97th Unpresidented Week As POTUS

    https://rantt.com/trumps-97th-unpresidented-week-revealed-cohen-plea-collusion-evidence/?fbclid=IwAR2vTOs-S5GhhimQy88noSxfpThE_d8pm9O-S0sdOOuEXkoghD7dQSAyQ4Q
    Trump’s first major typo after winning the election was spelling Unprecedented incorrectly. He infamously tweeted “Unpresidented.” This typo is a personification of his administration: An impulsive, frantically thrown together group of characters with virtually no oversight. After Trump was sworn in, I started writing the weekly “Unpresidented” column, analyzing his every move. This is week 97.
    "Un Presidented"? I love it!

    Putin Throws Trump Under the Bus After Cohen Rats Him Out

    https://www.politicususa.com/2018/12/02/putin-throws-trump-under-the-bus-after-cohen-rats-him-out.html?fbclid=IwAR2zlENe57t_OsVh9vp39M8bPwPDV_xBWFKYTlmiQJyXVFHEqGSJN-PzEWM
    The Picture here says it all, I think.

    Robert Mueller is ‘Teeing up’ for ‘a blockbuster indictment’ According to Top Watergate Prosecutor

    https://hillreporter.com/robert-mueller-is-teeing-up-for-a-blockbuster-indictment-according-to-top-watergate-prosecutor-16273
    As this article pointed out, the relatively light sentence given to Michael Cohen means that they are going for someone "higher on the food chain".

    ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ TAKES DOWN MIKE HUCKABEE: LEAVE LYING TO YOUR DAUGHTER, 'SHE’S MUCH BETTER AT IT'

    https://www.newsweek.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-takes-down-mike-huckabee-leave-lying-your-daughter-1240605?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&utm_medium=Social
    Sick burn. Also, why does Mike Huckabee still use "Governor" in his twitter handle? As she points out, he hasn't been a governor in 10+ years...

    Ohio GM Workers Voted for Trump. Now They Want Him to ‘Step Up’

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-27/trump-promised-jobs-for-ohio-voters-they-want-him-to-deliver
    The danger of making promises you can't keep...

    And a few late breakers:

    Billionaire Trophy Hunter Kills Endangered Black Rhino With No Regrets, And U.S. Allows Him To Import Body Parts

    https://blog.theanimalrescuesite.greatergood.com/black-rhino-import/?utm_source=ars-arsfan&utm_medium=social-fb&utm_content=link&utm_campaign=black-rhino-import&utm_term=AT456&origin=ars-arsfan_social_fb_link_black-rhino-import&fbclid=IwAR1k7WvPZuZvYEgTY1gogztXx2472bD3eqg5k2RtcpO7sq8Um-JMcDNy8Pk
    Lest anyone forget, Donald Trump's sons are also Trophy Hunters.

    DEUTSCHE BANK WILLING TO REPORT JARED KUSHNER’S ‘SUSPICIOUS TRANSACTIONS’ TO ROBERT MUELLER: REPORT

    https://www.newsweek.com/deutsche-bank-willing-report-jared-kushners-suspicious-transactions-robert-786011?fbclid=IwAR1epCdPmfoI07r17qYVbZN9Vrj0eOy59uo8BmoKglRbiTbwQ6GQ8iJ6gHg
    The raid on Deutsche Bank may have been for more than just Donald Trump. Maybe Jared, too?

    U.S. Navy admiral Scott Stearney found dead in apparent suicide

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/scott-stearney-us-navy-admiral-found-dead-apparent-suicide-2018-12-01/?fbclid=IwAR3gwkd_ZlzuvK3awKaMKrDZ97iMkDMPJVRFoJ8w45AgbE-9tm3fSs5FpQY
    Very sad. I wonder what could make him take his life like this?

    Migrant mother falls off border fence, impaled in front of her children

    https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/migrant-mother-impaled-san-ysidro-san-diego-mexico-border-wall-fence-central-america-children-rodney-scott-trump/#referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s
    This just shows how desperate people can get.
    Post edited by LadyRhian on
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Comey has reached an agreement with Republican lawmakers about his closed-door hearings: Comey will not be able to have the hearing in public, as he wanted, but the lawmakers agreed to release a transcript and allow Comey to speak publicly about the hearings.

    I actually don't see the point in keeping the hearing behind closed doors if a transcript is going to be released anyway. What sensitive information could remain confidential after the release of a transcript?
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    LadyRhian said:

    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
    I think a full investigation is actually on its way, and charges are going to be laid against those responsible for his death - those that helped him get onto the island in the first place.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I sure hope so. Because he was surely guilty of arrant stupidity.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    deltago said:

    LadyRhian said:

    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
    I think a full investigation is actually on its way, and charges are going to be laid against those responsible for his death - those that helped him get onto the island in the first place.
    That's stupid. They are in no way responsible for the choices Chau made as a grown man.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    deltago said:

    LadyRhian said:

    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
    I think a full investigation is actually on its way, and charges are going to be laid against those responsible for his death - those that helped him get onto the island in the first place.
    That's stupid. They are in no way responsible for the choices Chau made as a grown man.
    Yes they are. They broke the law by bringing him to the island.

    Charging them, throwing them in jail or giving them a hefty fine will be a deterrent to the next person who wants to help a missionary get to the island.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    deltago said:

    deltago said:

    LadyRhian said:

    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
    I think a full investigation is actually on its way, and charges are going to be laid against those responsible for his death - those that helped him get onto the island in the first place.
    That's stupid. They are in no way responsible for the choices Chau made as a grown man.
    Yes they are. They broke the law by bringing him to the island.

    Charging them, throwing them in jail or giving them a hefty fine will be a deterrent to the next person who wants to help a missionary get to the island.
    If it's illegal to bring people to the island, yes they should be charged for that. But not for his death.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457

    I actually don't see the point in keeping the hearing behind closed doors if a transcript is going to be released anyway. What sensitive information could remain confidential after the release of a transcript?

    There might be reasonable concerns about disruptions and rowdiness that would justify a closed hearing even if information was going to be made public anyway.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    edited December 2018
    LadyRhian said:

    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.

    This is exactly the same logic I apply to James Khashoggi--he took his own life into his own hands by choosing to go into that Saudi Embassy. He should have stayed in Virginia...and yet...people think I engage in victim-blaming when I say that. Which way is it? Either both men took their own life into their own hands by going somewhere they shouldn't have gone or all blame is placed on the perpetrators of their deaths, the Sentinalese and the Saudis alike.

    *************

    AOC still thinks she is living the Mr. Smith Goes to Washington dream, that her passion and enthusiasm will sway the House of Representatives. It won't. She is a very young freshman Congresswoman so, truthfully, her colleagues are not going to take her seriously, including her female colleagues. Maybe after she has been there 2 or 3 terms, perhaps, but not right now.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    LadyRhian said:

    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
    One wonders how many members of that group have "Trespassers will be shot" signs on their property.

    If anyone really wanted to punish those responsible, they'd start with Chau's parents, pastors and the teachers at Oral Roberts University. They're the ones who indoctrinated and brainwashed this poor kid into thinking the magic man in the sky is more important than his own life and the lives of the islanders. Not to mention, "the laws of god always outweigh the laws of man" that we hear from far-right politicians all the time.

    I can't help but wonder about whether Chau had anything to do with this group before he went on his suicide mission. Did someone in the group encourage him? We can see this pattern used back in the 1700 and 1800s. Send in some patsy, then use his death as an excuse to send in the troops to force the "savages" to bow down.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659


    I actually don't see the point in keeping the hearing behind closed doors if a transcript is going to be released anyway. What sensitive information could remain confidential after the release of a transcript?

    I think it's probably less politically damaging for Republicans to avoid letting Comey have soundbites played all over the media. Conversely, with a transcript - it's probably easier to take his comments out of context.



    On another subject - I read an article from 538 discussing Judicial reform and how it's picking up speed in some circles. Personally - I think we need significant reform to congress too.

    The Senate is kind of the crux of this issue - being inherently biased towards Conservatism, and how it is exerting influence on the Supreme Court to necessarily add that bias to the Supreme Court. Either the judicial reform needs to remove the Senate's ability to advise and consent (Making the Supreme Court an appendage of the bias of the Presidency, which is a bit more 50/50 than the Senate is now) -- or the Senate needs to be expanded by adding P.R and D.C (Which is just a band-aid for the bigger problem. At least, as far as Judicial Reform is concerned).

    The House has been capped at 435 representatives for a long time (I think nearly 100 years) - and this has also granulated the representation in such a way that there's a soft Conservative bias in the House. It's not particularly meaningful (as far as I can see) - but it might make sense to remove or adjust that cap. Incidentally, I think this too is a band-aid - as the bigger issue in House of Representatives is the issue we have with gerrymandering.

    That article: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-a-fringe-idea-about-the-supreme-court-is-taking-over-the-left/
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    LadyRhian said:

    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
    "Stupidity" is not a crime. Murder is a crime.

    I'm going to have to side with International Christian Concern on this one, and to be honest, I cannot fathom how anyone could not. I cannot understand why so much criticism is being focused on the mistakes of a murder victim rather than the people who killed him. If we blame Chau for his own death, we must also blame Khashoggi for his own torture and dismemberment, and we must blame every rape victim for "provoking" their attacker. I do not accept this warped view of ethics--victim blaming is unacceptable no matter who the victim is.

    The punishment for trespassing is not the death penalty; you don't get to kill people just because they walk on your lawn. If trespassing on this land is illegal because the typical response is murder, the root problem with this situation is the habit of murder; not the trespassing. Murdering foreigners on sight out of sheer xenophobia is not acceptable behavior, and we should not give the islanders a pass just because the murder victim was a white Christian man and the murderers were uncontacted tribes.

    The full responsibility for this man's death lies upon the people who literally nocked arrows and murdered this man in cold blood.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455

    LadyRhian said:

    Ugh. A Christian group wants the Sentinalese islanders arrested and brought to trial for filling John Chau, who was on their island illegally and was killed by the natives.

    Christian Group Wants Native Tribe “Brought to Justice” for Death of Missionary

    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacredcows/2018/11/christian-group-wants-native-tribe-brought-to-justice-for-death-of-missionary/
    He was on the island illegally. It's illegal to go there because the islanders kill *all* outsiders. The law is there to protect people, and the islanders, who can die from the introduction of diseases they have no resistance to. They even speak their own language. He took his own life in his hands by going there, and now this group wants the islanders to be arrested and tried because this missionary broke the law.
    Stupidity is against the law of the universe, and is punishable by death. John Chau found this out too late.
    "Stupidity" is not a crime. Murder is a crime.

    I'm going to have to side with International Christian Concern on this one, and to be honest, I cannot fathom how anyone could not. I cannot understand why so much criticism is being focused on the mistakes of a murder victim rather than the people who killed him. If we blame Chau for his own death, we must also blame Khashoggi for his own torture and dismemberment, and we must blame every rape victim for "provoking" their attacker. I do not accept this warped view of ethics--victim blaming is unacceptable no matter who the victim is.

    The punishment for trespassing is not the death penalty; you don't get to kill people just because they walk on your lawn. If trespassing on this land is illegal because the typical response is murder, the root problem with this situation is the habit of murder; not the trespassing. Murdering foreigners on sight out of sheer xenophobia is not acceptable behavior, and we should not give the islanders a pass just because the murder victim was a white Christian man and the murderers were uncontacted tribes.

    The full responsibility for this man's death lies upon the people who literally nocked arrows and murdered this man in cold blood.
    The laws of the US do not apply on North Sentinel. Don't be silly now.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    It does not need to be a legal issue to be unacceptable--it is already an ethical issue by default.

    If we consider this from a legal perspective, the killing is legally defined as an "act of war."
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768

    It does not need to be a legal issue to be unacceptable--it is already an ethical issue by default.

    If we consider this from a legal perspective, the killing is legally defined as an "act of war."

    So is invading someone's country loaded with biological weapons. Chau not only knew he could be killed, he knew his presence had a good chance of killing all the islanders too. There have been some contacts in the last 200 years, at least one of which included the islanders taking ill and dying. So it's very possible the Sentinelise know that contact with outsiders is deadly.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044

    On another subject - I read an article from 538 discussing Judicial reform and how it's picking up speed in some circles. Personally - I think we need significant reform to congress too.

    One the one hand the Democrats are thinking about alternatives only because they did not also regain the Senate. On the other hand, the Republicans in the Senate abdicated their Constitutional duty to advise and consent for Obama's nominee to the Supreme Court. The Court, itself, did not have any means by which it could force the Senate to hold a vote to confirm or deny an appointee. That being said, the options they are all considering amount to "stacking the deck" in their favor. Would the Democrats support it if the Republicans were still in control of both Houses and were seeking to increase the size of the Court so that Trump could appoint 1 to 3 new Justices? If the answer is "no" then they shouldn't do it--if you wouldn't want your opponent to have a power then you shouldn't have it, either.

    Packing the Court, as noted, is easily done with a short bill passed by both Houses of Congress. However, the Court has a power it has not used before--it may refuse to seat a Justice (at least, I do not recall any instance of them using that implied authority).

    As far as Statehood for Puerto Rico and representation for D. C.....I could see giving D. C. a number of Representatives based on its population as well as 1 Senator (it isn't really a State). I am already on record stating that Puerto Rico should have been granted Statehood 30 years ago.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    edited December 2018


    One the one hand the Democrats are thinking about alternatives only because they did not also regain the Senate. On the other hand, the Republicans in the Senate abdicated their Constitutional duty to advise and consent for Obama's nominee to the Supreme Court. The Court, itself, did not have any means by which it could force the Senate to hold a vote to confirm or deny an appointee. That being said, the options they are all considering amount to "stacking the deck" in their favor. Would the Democrats support it if the Republicans were still in control of both Houses and were seeking to increase the size of the Court so that Trump could appoint 1 to 3 new Justices? If the answer is "no" then they shouldn't do it--if you wouldn't want your opponent to have a power then you shouldn't have it, either.

    Packing the Court, as noted, is easily done with a short bill passed by both Houses of Congress. However, the Court has a power it has not used before--it may refuse to seat a Justice (at least, I do not recall any instance of them using that implied authority).

    As far as Statehood for Puerto Rico and representation for D. C.....I could see giving D. C. a number of Representatives based on its population as well as 1 Senator (it isn't really a State). I am already on record stating that Puerto Rico should have been granted Statehood 30 years ago.

    I want to be careful in saying this: I completely agree that there are plenty of nakedly partisan Democrats who only want to change the rules because they lost. That's also true of Republicans, obviously, although irrelevant in the framing of the conversation.

    That said - there is a deeper issue as I tried to outline in my post: Now that the cat is out of the bag on the ability for the GOP to refuse to seat a supreme court nominee until their party controls the Presidency, we probably do need to look at reform. This would be equally true if the reverse situation had happened (Albeit, it would be a less of a problem because the Senate is, as I stated, institutionally biased to be Conservative. We are far less likely to have a Republican President with a Democratic Senate than we are to have a Democratic President with a Republican Senate. Based on that alone - the issue is more urgent because Conservatives are exerting norm-breaking influence on the SCOTUS).


    Unfortunately - because this is necessarily a partisan issue, it comes down to being resolved by partisan warfare. I'm not in favor of massively stacking the deck in Democratic hands. I am in favor of reform that reshuffles the deck and gives each side less of an institutional advantage.

    For what its worth, I dont think that's really possible to do with Senate (short of burning it down, which I'm not in favor of), so compromises might need to be made: D.C. as a state, Judicial reform that puts advise and consent in the hands of the House (or not at all).

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455

    It does not need to be a legal issue to be unacceptable--it is already an ethical issue by default.

    If we consider this from a legal perspective, the killing is legally defined as an "act of war."

    We are talking about whether the tribe should be charged with murder here.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,044
    Grond0 said:

    They're not remotely the same situation. Khashoggi went to a consulate of his own country in order to get documents allowing him to get married. Let's face it: a country that is willing to order its own Consul to witness the murder of one of its citizens is hardly going to be concerned about killing someone in their home. Therefore there's no reason to suppose Khashoggi would have been any safer staying in Virginia.

    He could have applied for political asylum in the United States and then, upon attaining citizenship, married the love of his life. Waiting a few years is preferable to death. The probability of a hit squad assassinating him in Virginia is so low that we may discount it completely...but enough about him.

    That said - there is a deeper issue as I tried to outline in my post: Now that the cat is out of the bag on the ability for the GOP to refuse to seat a supreme court nominee until their party controls the Presidency, we probably do need to look at reform.

    For what its worth, I dont think that's really possible to do with Senate (short of burning it down, which I'm not in favor of), so compromises might need to be made: D.C. as a state, Judicial reform that puts advise and consent in the hands of the House (or not at all).

    I agree that some reform is needed, especially representation in the House. If the building itself has created a physical limitation to the number of Representatives then the time has come to build a new place for them to meet which will hold enough people. Put the new House somewhere in the middle so that it is essentially equidistant for all Representatives. That probably isn't going to happen, though.

    Moving advice and consent to the House would require a Constitutional amendment; I am pretty certain we can rule that out completely.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457

    Grond0 said:

    They're not remotely the same situation. Khashoggi went to a consulate of his own country in order to get documents allowing him to get married. Let's face it: a country that is willing to order its own Consul to witness the murder of one of its citizens is hardly going to be concerned about killing someone in their home. Therefore there's no reason to suppose Khashoggi would have been any safer staying in Virginia.

    He could have applied for political asylum in the United States and then, upon attaining citizenship, married the love of his life. Waiting a few years is preferable to death. The probability of a hit squad assassinating him in Virginia is so low that we may discount it completely...but enough about him.
    Becoming a citizen would have made no difference to the need for him to prove he had been divorced and was therefore free to marry again.

    As for being in the US providing a guarantee of safety, why do you believe that? The US has its share of murders, including of well-known people, so why would one more raise any eyebrows? What seemed so shocking about Khashoggi was not that Saudi Arabia had him killed, but the brazen way they did that. Believing that a country willing to do that would rule out arranging one more 'robbery gone wrong' in the US seems bizarre to me.

    I imagine that many Russian expatriates would consider the UK a safe place to live and by most standards it is. However, if a foreign government really wants you dead nowhere is safe - this article refers to some of those who have been killed.

    The likely champion of foreign assassinations though is Israel. They have done that successfully on hundreds of occasions, though there have been some notable failures too. The BBC did a radio program not long ago about the extent to which assassinations are successful in achieving their aims, which includes a bit of information about Israel's assassination techniques.
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