No violence. No bloodshed. No contamination. The reality is, you don't have to kill people to keep them off your lawn.
This guy wasn't taking a polite invitation to leave. He saw the rules and came anyway. Once he was there he wasn't going to leave if they asked nicely.
They're basically a sovereign nation right. They have one law "don't come here". Genuis broke the one law.
In the early 1800s, 10 strong groups of the Great Andamanese inhabited a vast territory near this island.
Here's what happened when these other islands were contacted:
In 1869, their children ended up in an orphanage. Soon, several epidemics engulfed them– syphilis (1875), ophthalmia (1876), measles (1877), mumps (1886), influenza (1981) and gonorrhoea (1892), which steadily shrank their population, from 3,500 (1858), to 2,000 (1888), 625 (1901), 455 (1911), 209 (1921), and then down to 90 (1931).
@jjstraka34 That depends. How long have they been isolated? Before the area around them became modernized, they would have doubtlessly had contact with other natives on neighboring islands. A population that small would fall to crippling inbreeding otherwise.
@smeagolheart And most of those cases were over 100 years ago. Germ theory, infectious diseases, sterilization, our knowledge in all of these areas is much greater than back then. We actually have protocols for interacting with isolated populations safely these days.
I'm surprised no-one has gotten around to mentioning the Prime Directive yet . The asymmetrical power dynamic is an problematic aspect.... This debate has some parallells to the US steaming into Japan in the 19th century, and the habit of colonial powers using missionary deaths in various regions as excuses to demand reparations from native populations. In a sci-fi scenario where a bunch of vegetarian aliens showed up and demanded that people who mistreated other sentient beings- e.g. dolphins, gorillas- be punished, how should we react to them? I wonder how people do react to this case in other cultures actually, it could be interesting to compare and contrast. I highly doubt that there will be universal agreement!
Elsewhere on free movement gone wrong, I'm delighted over the turn that Brexit has taken. For now at least it seems as if parliament may finally be willing to confront the referendum result and take a step back from the brink. Direct democracy is such a blunt instrument that it can easily shatter a country if you ask the 'wrong' question. Over two years on and there is still no consensus on the right answer, only agreement on rejecting most of what's available.
@BallpointMan: They didn't have a role in creating the laws of any other nation, but they did have a role (the role) in killing this man, and yes, we do need to hold whoever shot the arrow to account for the murder. To do any less would be to tolerate an act of murder against an unarmed civilian traveling in peace.
Isolation is not realistic in the long term. As I've mentioned, a population that small can't survive this way indefinitely; inbreeding is going to make them even more vulnerable to diseases as time goes on, and not just foreign ones. Again, isolation is the cause of that vulnerability, not its solution.
All I want to establish is that the Sentinelese not murder people who trespass. "Don't kill people" isn't "tyrannical"; it's basic humanity. The only way you can do that is if you speak their language, and the only way you can learn the language is if you interact with them for a few weeks. A gift giving program could start the process.
Forcing them to adopt your concept of morality and society, subjecting them to a series of laws that they've never known and are not familiar with, and then prosecute them ex post facto (to them, they dont have this law) is definitely tyrannical.
All the while you're risking their entire population on the assumption that we can be 100% certain not to transmit any disease to them (we cant be - an arrow can probably puncture a hazmat suit. This plan isnt fool proof), and putting law enforcement in harm's way in case they react violently.
You've said a few times that their population isnt sustainable. Two thoughts: A) - Clearly their current survival on the island suggests otherwise (up to this point). B ) - They evidently had a population in the thousands, which has declined to its current state in part because of unwanted, forced human action.
Keep in mind that just as handing a blanket covered in smallpox to a Native American is murder, so is willfully putting yourself in a position to transmit diseases to a population. You may not even mean to hurt anyone - but if you know it's a possibility, and you risk their lives that way... it's still murder.
To end, consider this (rhetorically) - what odds would you be okay with for your plan? Let's say the odds are 80% that you do not communicate a disease to this population. Is that good enough, knowing there's a 20% chance that most or all of the population on this island may die?
Edit: I want to backtrack (a bit) on the argument that putting yourself into a society knowing you could transmit a disease is murder. Going back to the drunk driver analogy I used before, it's pretty hard to convict someone of DUI murder rather than manslaughter.
In California, if an intoxicated driver causes the death of a person, the driver’s behavior may be classified as “extremely indifferent to human life.” Known as the “Watson Rule,” this rule mandates that someone can be convicted of second-degree murder if he or she killed another in a drunk driving accident in certain circumstances. In People v. Watson, the driver was found guilty of DUI murder after driving 70 mph in a 35 mph zone, having a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of 0.23 percent, and striking and killing two persons in another car. However, the prosecution will need to prove three things:
Death resulted from an intentional act, the natural consequences of that act are dangerous to human life, and the driver knowingly acted with conscious disregard of human life.
Living for generations is possible even with inbreeding. Living indefinitely is another story. It's a bit like saying we've been burning fossil fuels for generations and haven't gone extinct, so global warming isn't a threat. There is a reason why uncontacted tribes are so incredibly rare. Intermixing with other humans is normal and necessary for long-term survival.
Living for generations is possible even with inbreeding. Living indefinitely is another story. It's a bit like saying we've been burning fossil fuels for generations and haven't gone extinct, so global warming isn't a threat. There is a reason why uncontacted tribes are so incredibly rare. Intermixing with other humans is normal and necessary for long-term survival.
if this island is any indication you can also live well alone - as long as you keep the foreigners and their germs out.
One they get a toehold in, you're going to die and your culture will be destroyed.
@smeagolheart And most of those cases were over 100 years ago. Germ theory, infectious diseases, sterilization, our knowledge in all of these areas is much greater than back then. We actually have protocols for interacting with isolated populations safely these days.
This debate has been pretty intense for me, but I'd like to point out that you guys have had some very smart points and counterpoints, and I like that we have a hard-nosed community of critical thinkers here.
The entire human race comes from 15 individuals, 8 females and 7 males. According to the 50/500 analysis done in Australia in 1980, you only need 50 individuals to prevent inbreeding, but 500 to prevent genetic drift. Not everyone accepts those numbers, but I haven't seen any yet to say something different.
Now, if you are going to another star via a generation ship, the calculation is you need 160 people for a trip of 8 to 10 generations.
The entire human race can be traced to a single female who once lived in Africa, but that doesn't mean the human race has the genetic diversity of a single person, or that we could survive on it.
It's my understanding that the minimum number of isolated human beings needed to maintain enough genetic diversity to avoid a catastrophic epidemic is 10,000.
@deltago: Germ theory was the cause-and-effect; not just the technical mechanism. Before germ theory, folks in England still thought it was damp vapors that caused disease. It's not just the process that took so much time to understand; it was the cause that took so much time to understand.
This is rather the point to me. When the British colonized Hong Kong there was a severe problem of malaria (which means 'bad air'). The British didn't understand the cause of the disease, but they were absolutely correct that certain areas at certain times of year (when mosquitoes were breeding) were much more dangerous than other areas. In the case of the Sentinilese it's extremely likely, given their history, that they would associate strangers with disease - and be correct in doing so.
@BallpointMan: They didn't have a role in creating the laws of any other nation, but they did have a role (the role) in killing this man, and yes, we do need to hold whoever shot the arrow to account for the murder. To do any less would be to tolerate an act of murder against an unarmed civilian traveling in peace.
Isolation is not realistic in the long term. As I've mentioned, a population that small can't survive this way indefinitely; inbreeding is going to make them even more vulnerable to diseases as time goes on, and not just foreign ones. Again, isolation is the cause of that vulnerability, not its solution.
All I want to establish is that the Sentinelese not murder people who trespass. "Don't kill people" isn't "tyrannical"; it's basic humanity. The only way you can do that is if you speak their language, and the only way you can learn the language is if you interact with them for a few weeks. A gift giving program could start the process.
Put on a hazmat suit if you have to. Spray the whole boat with disinfectant before you head out to the island to establish contact. It's not like we don't have the technology to sterilize materials.
There are numerous different ways you could establish the basic norm of "don't kill people" as long as you have a single person learn a few words of their language to send a single message. Give them a few pairs of handcuffs, a tin shack with an iron pole in it, and a solar-powered device that sends a message to the nearest authority when a button is pressed, and you have an easy solution for the tribe: if somebody trespasses, they handcuff the intruder in the shack, press the button, and wait for somebody to come pick up the intruder and take them off the island.
No violence. No bloodshed. No contamination. The reality is, you don't have to kill people to keep them off your lawn.
You're framing this whole argument as: (i) a civilian interaction (ii) using the laws of just one of the parties.
In relation to (i) an equally valid frame of reference would be that the Sentinilese are at war with the outside world. Their past experience of interactions has not generally been a happy one, but they do not strike me as senselessly violent. Even in the case of Chau they didn't fire at him the first time he went there - only when he repeated the visit (potentially confirming his status in their eyes as a combatant). There are plenty of real world examples of how we use these different frames of reference to avoid killings being considered murder. Think of the 'war on terror' for example and consider what defense a border guard would make when an intruder comes across a border apparently armed with a bomb - and such a situation would constitute a miniscule threat to the country compared to the mere presence of people with the Sentinilese.
In relation to (ii) I do have sympathy with the idea that there are universal human rights and that therefore we can reasonably apply those to the Sentinilese whether or not they are aware of them. However, if we are applying a universal right to life it has to apply both ways. Civilians attempting to make contact with the tribe clearly constitute a real danger to not just their way of life, but to life itself. In those circumstances I don't see any reasonable argument for considering this killing to be a murder.
I also agree with @Mantis37 that considering the Prime Directive is relevant here. If we interact with this culture we will destroy it, whether or not any of the existing people survive. I'm not saying that automatically means we shouldn't interact, but it's a question that should be considered. Historical examples of forced integration of tribespeople should at least justify a pause for reflection before determining that the Sentinilese would be better off in our culture.
It's hard not to see the very existence of the Prime Directive in Star Trek as a direct rebuke of European expansion, imperialism, and colonialism. The Sentinelese are probably among the last people on Earth who have managed to avoid being consumed by it over the centuries. It was mentioned earlier that Columbus didn't know he was transporting and passing germs that killed off the Native population of the Americas. That doesn't change the fact that he was RESPONSIBLE for it happening, whether he knew it or it was intentional or not.
As far as Star Trek goes, I'm not sure just how closely most of the series even follow the Prime Directive. The incarnation most obsessed with adhering to it was The Next Generation. Incidentally, that was by far the best the franchise has ever been. It's hard to imagine we should actually introduce a fictional philosophy into this discussion, but it is so novel it is actual worthy of it. It states:
The Prime Directive prohibits Starfleet personnel and spacecraft from interfering in the normal development of any society, and mandates that any Starfleet vessel or crew member is expendable to prevent violation of this rule.
As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation.
Meaning that the life of any individual member of Starfleet, or even an entire crew or ship was to be sacrificed before breaking the Prime Directive.
I see that Mueller is recommending that Flynn faces no jail time. That's clearly on the basis that he has provided useful information for the investigation - the results of that information have not yet been seen.
I see that Mueller is recommending that Flynn faces no jail time. That's clearly on the basis that he has provided useful information for the investigation - the results of that information have not yet been seen.
No, but the massive amounts that were redacted indicate that the information is currently being used in an ongoing criminal probe that has not yet been revealed. Which means at a bare minimum, more people are due for indictments.
It is also worth mentioning Manafort breaking the terms of his plea deal last week. I'm am becoming increasingly convinced Manafort was feeding information to the Trump team from the inside, and that Mueller's team was LETTING him do this.
As I heard someone on a podcast mention today, imagine you ask your professor to take a test early. He allows you to do this, but you then tell all your friends the questions and answers. But the professor has anticipated this, and creates an entirely new test for everyone else, who promptly show up and then proceed to answer all the questions correctly......for the wrong test.
Off topic but with all the talk of Star Trek it reminds me that unfortunately the current Trek show, STD, doesn't seem to be interested in these type of philosophical questions that we got on the older shows. They would focus on things such as interpretations of the Prime Directive and morality in different situations. The new Trek is instead just generic action SciFi TV show.
The entire human race can be traced to a single female who once lived in Africa, but that doesn't mean the human race has the genetic diversity of a single person, or that we could survive on it.
It's my understanding that the minimum number of isolated human beings needed to maintain enough genetic diversity to avoid a catastrophic epidemic is 10,000.
Off topic but with all the talk of Star Trek it reminds me that unfortunately the current Trek show, STD, doesn't seem to be interested in these type of philosophical questions that we got on the older shows such as interpretations of the Prime Directive and is instead Generic action SciFi TV show.
As a random aside - I also think it's unfortunate. I like STD for what it is, but I think we're looooong past the days of seeing "hard" sci-fi type shows that can just be a drama rather than needing to be sexy and/or action-packed. One of my favorite moments of Star Trek history is seeing Picard take Sarek's emotions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOm1dKSOq1g - I wager we're unlikely to see this ever again in a sci-fi television series.
I see that Mueller is recommending that Flynn faces no jail time. That's clearly on the basis that he has provided useful information for the investigation - the results of that information have not yet been seen.
I saw this too. It's a big deal, and it sounds like there's more and more coming down. To be honest, it makes me worry that the investigation will take long enough that Whittaker (and whomever replaces him as AG in the long run) will be able to stifle the report and/or investigation. When you see just how much redacted information there is, I cannot help but think this thing wont resolve in 2019.
Mueller is about to drop major new details about 3 of the most important players in the Russia probe
https://amp.businessinsider.com/mueller-sentencing-memos-manafort-cohen-flynn-2018-12?fbclid=IwAR2x8gwsdZUNmTSFnszKb4q42bE5QXk_JVwaT8u1PcWwOSoueD_1U41K14c "Cohen's lawyers, meanwhile, submitted a sentencing memo on his behalf last week that contained a slew of bombshells about Trump and his interactions with Cohen last year and before the 2016 election. Among other things, his lawyers said that when Cohen was breaking campaign finance laws at Trump's direction before the election, Cohen was also keeping Trump "contemporaneously informed" of his actions. They also said Cohen was "in close and regular contact" with Trump's lawyers and White House staffers while he was drafting false testimony to give to Congress last year about his involvement in the Trump Organization's effort to build a Trump Tower in Moscow during the election."
Heart-wrenching photos show General Motors workers wiping away tears after company laid off more than 14,000 people without warning, just before the holidays
Whoa! Defense Secretary Jim Mattis lets the world know who's in charge
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/1/1816491/-Whoa-Defense-Secretary-Jim-Mattis-lets-the-world-know-who-s-in-charge?detail=emaildkre Defense Secretary Jim Mattis on Saturday took aim at Russian President Vladimir Putin, accusing him of trying to “muck around” in the U.S. midterm elections, of duplicity in arms control and of acting irresponsibly in last weekend’s naval confrontation with Ukraine. In remarks at the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, California, Mattis said the U.S.-Russian relationship has deteriorated over the last two years. “We are dealing with someone that we simply cannot trust,” he said. “There is no doubt the relationship has worsened.” Mattis did not elaborate on his claim that Russia tried to interfere in last month’s elections, adding only, “We are seeing a continued effort along those lines.” He added more generally, “It’s his efforts to try to subvert democratic processes that must be defended.”
A Brutal AP Fact Check Exposes Trump's Intellectual Laziness and Hostility Toward the Truth
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/1/1816521/-A-Brutal-AP-Fact-Check-Exposes-Trump-s-Intellectual-Laziness-and-Hostility-Toward-the-Truth?detail=emaildkre The Associated Press took inventory of some of the President's recent public remarks and compared them to reality. The result is a pathetic and troubling expose of a man completely unfit to lead a remedial scout troop, much less the most powerful nation on the planet. The AP described Trump's failings as a "slippery grasp of science as well as trade policy." But their observations go way beyond that, covering most of the subjects that will eventually touch every American's life. "TRUMP: (On the confrontation between migrants trying to rush into the U.S. and authorities who used tear gas to drive them back): "Three Border Patrol people yesterday were very badly hurt, getting hit with rocks and stones." THE FACTS: This didn't happen, according to the account by the commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, Kevin McAleenan. He said there were no "reported serious injuries on either side of the border."
In Memo Asking Clemency Cohen Reveals He Worked With Trump's Lawyers Preparing False Cong. Testimony
Russian state media: Trump 'seems to be an unbalanced person'
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/2/1816578/-Russian-state-media-Trump-seems-to-be-an-unbalanced-person?detail=emaildkre Following the abrupt cancellation of Donald Trump’s G20 meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Russian state media roasted him. Known for seamlessly adhering to the Kremlin’s viewpoint, the troupe of Putin’s cheerleaders took turns laying into the president of the United States. In an opinion piece for the Russian publication “Arguments and Facts,” Veronika Krasheninnikova, “Director General of the Institute for Foreign Policy Studies & Initiatives, Advisor to the Director General of 'Russia Today' and a member of the Kremlin-appointed Russian Public Chamber,” says that in light of the canceled meeting, Russia can now give up on the U.S. and “should have never trusted Trump to begin with.”'
Major Fraud by Republicans alleged in North Carolina's 9th District - A do-over election next?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/1/1816532/-Major-Voter-Fraud-by-Republicans-alleged-in-North-Carolina-s-9th-District-A-do-over-election-next?detail=emaildkre Among the allegations is that an individual who worked for the Harris campaign coordinated an effort to collect and fill in, or discard, the ballots of Democratic voters who might have otherwise voted for McCready. Several of the affidavits come from elderly African American voters. It is illegal to take someone else’s ballot, whether to turn it in or discard it. Officials are also examining unusually high numbers of absentee ballots cast in some precincts in the 9th District — and unusually high numbers of ballots requested but never returned. Harris’s narrow victory over incumbent Rep. Robert Pittenger (R-N.C.) in the Republican primary is also under scrutiny, with new attention on the incredibly high proportion of absentee ballots — 96 percent — that Harris won in Bladen County.
Rudy Giuliani accidentally created a new website link, and an internet prankster went to work
Wisconsin Democrats vow to fight Republican 'attempt to undermine the election'
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816741/-Wisconsin-Democrats-vow-to-fight-Republican-attempt-to-undermine-the-election?detail=emaildkre Wisconsin Republicans are gearing up this week to use a lame-duck legislative session to subvert democracy by stripping powers from the governor now that he’s going to be a Democrat. It’s even possible that Republicans will attack Gov.-elect Tony Evers’ ability to veto their next gerrymandering effort. The plot is getting started with a Monday hearing, and it’s not just Evers in the crosshairs: Wisconsin’s next attorney general is also a Democrat, so Republicans are planning to weaken that office, and they want to spend $7 million changing the date of the state’s presidential primary to help a conservative win a state Supreme Court election.
Trump Mar-a-Lago friend pressured the VA to adopt a mobile app he himself developed
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816771/-Trump-Mar-a-Lago-friend-pressured-the-VA-to-adopt-a-mobile-app-he-himself-developed?detail=emaildkre The refrain here is a familiar one: the wealthy Trump Mar-a-Lago friend mistrusted or was unimpressed with the entire collected expertise of the department's government team, instead deeming his own technology insights to be superior and the department's problems to be best solved by, as sheer coincidence, a product he himself was marketing. Moskowitz also pressured the VA into organizing a conference on medical device registries, the core topic of a foundation he founded from which his wife was drawing a salary, despite the government already having an effective such system in place.
Rep.-elect Ocasio-Cortez blasts lawmakers with livable salaries who are looking for free labor
Multiple people witnessed absentee ballot signatures in NC-09--hardest proof yet of fraud
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816837/-Multiple-people-witnessed-absentee-ballot-signatures-in-NC-09-hardest-proof-yet-of-fraud?detail=emaildkre It has since become apparent that there was a rank odor surrounding this race. Specifically, in absentee ballots on the far eastern end of the district, which was reconfigured to stretch from south Charlotte all the way to Fayetteville. There have been claims of out-and-out criminal conduct—like ballots being collected before being completed, and in some cases filled in with votes for Harris when the rest of the ballot pattern indicated they would have voted for McCready. Additionally, a number of analysts have found suspicious anomalies in absentee ballots from the two most rural counties in the district, Bladen and Robeson. Not only were there a large number of unreturned ballots, but Harris reportedly won almost two-thirds of absentee ballots in Bladen County—a pattern not repeated elsewhere in the district.
An upcoming Georgia election offers hope for undoing Republican voter suppression
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816736/-An-upcoming-election-in-Georgia-offers-hope-for-undoing-Republican-voter-suppression?detail=emaildkre As we saw in Georgia’s gubernatorial race, the secretary of state has the power to rig elections by controlling access to the ballot. Ideally, the person in that role should want as many people as possible to vote in elections that are fair and democratic. But that’s not what’s happening here. The contrast between Barrow and Raffensperger couldn’t be more stark. Barrow wants to reverse Kemp’s restrictive policies and plans to make it easier for Georgians to vote by implementing automatic voter registration and replacing electronic voting machines, which are vulnerable to hacking and prone to malfunction, with paper ballots. On the other hand, Raffensperger supports Kemp’s work and has called him “a man of high integrity.” He’s another conspiracist who believes that we need to crack down on “illegal voting” (which has been a right-wing talking point for years without any basis in fact or proof) and he’s been endorsed by Donald Trump, who we can be assured does not know what a secretary of state actually does.
A legislative coup just took place in Wisconsin. I'm at a real goddamn loss as to what the options are to change things at the ballot box for Wisconsin voters. They win over 60% of the vote for statewide Congressional seats but end up with roughly 40% of the seats because of gerrymandering. The State speaks clearly and elects a new Democratic Governor and Attorney General, and the Republican Legislature and outgoing (defeated) Governor use the lame duck to strip these offices of massive amounts of power (that Walker himself benefited from) for NO other reason than that Democrats are taking the seats, changing the very nature of the offices that were just voted on.
If they can't have power, then they will simply break all norms and nullify the election results. If they can't hold those offices, they'd rather burn democracy to the ground. This is now a explicit tactic being used after elections in any State where this dynamic exists. If you want the #1 reason why I despise this vile party, this is it. I'm posting this full article from Slate because it's so damn important:
In 2012, North Carolina Republicans won a “trifecta” of legislative and executive power. They used their newfound power to aggressively gerrymander the electoral map and impose new restrictions on voting. In 2016, Democrats reversed those gains, narrowly toppling incumbent Gov. Pat McCrory—and the GOP Legislature responded by stripping the incoming executive of key powers and privileges. Before Democrats took their seats, Republicans ended the governor’s control of election boards, withdrew the office’s ability to make appointments to the state school board and the University of North Carolina’s Board of Trustees, slashed the overall number of jobs appointed by the governor from 1,500 to 300, and made Cabinet nominations subject to state Senate approval.
Rather than accept the will of the voters, who empowered the new governor to take the reins of the state government, Republicans entrenched their influence and undermined gubernatorial authority in an effort to avoid and undermine democratic accountability.
At the time, this anti-democratic maneuvering appeared exceptional to North Carolina. But in the wake of major Democratic victories in the 2018 midterm elections, it seems it was the canary in the coal mine.
Democrats won important victories in Republican-controlled Midwestern states that backed Donald Trump for president, in many instances, flipping the control of state legislatures. Democrats in Michigan won close races for governor, attorney general, and secretary of state while Democrats in Wisconsin won races for governor—sweeping incumbent Scott Walker out of office—and attorney general. Instead of allowing power to shift without contest, Republicans in both states are now fighting rear-guard actions to strip authority from these offices, using “lame duck” sessions to launch what are effectively legislative coup d’états.
In Wisconsin, GOP lawmakers have advanced bills to sharply limit the power of the incoming governor, Tony Evers. The measures will restrict his ability to run public benefits programs and curb his authority to set rules on the implementation of state laws. They’ve also placed a legislative veto on any effort to ban guns from the state capitol and ended gubernatorial control over the Walker-created agency that uses taxpayer-funded loans and subsidies to attract outside businesses.
Republicans have also planned an attack on the attorney general’s office. They’ve eliminated the (recently created) office of the solicitor general, established a new legislative power to intervene in any litigation challenging a state law (even allowing lawmakers to hire their own lawyers, at taxpayer expense, to undermine the attorney general), given legislators control over money from court settlements, and given the legislature’s budget committee, rather than the attorney general, the right to decide on continued legal action against the Affordable Care Act. The scope of these changes is a sign of the state GOP’s confidence in its ability to hold the Legislature—confidence that stems from the party’s extreme partisan gerrymandering that has created a firewall such that Republicans can resist anything short of a tsunami of opposition. To that end, Wisconsin Republicans also want new limits on early voting.
It’s an almost identical situation in Michigan, where Democrats have captured all three statewide offices—governor, attorney general, and secretary of state—for the first time in 28 years. There, Republican lawmakers have introduced several lame-duck proposals for wresting power from incoming Democratic officeholders. First is a bill that would allow the legislature to intervene in any legal proceedings involving state laws that the governor and attorney general may be reluctant to defend. A separate proposal would shift oversight of campaign finance law from the secretary of state to a six-person commission with members nominated by the state Republican and Democratic parties, a move that would produce deadlock in handling those issues, likely entrenching a status quo shaped by Republican officials.
Even the best defense of these moves—that they are simply an effort to protect the gains and accomplishments of the previous majority—accepts the anti-democratic reasoning that an outgoing majority is not bound by the results of an election, and instead has the right to change the rules of the game to preserve its power.
The peaceful uncontested transfer of power is the cornerstone of representative democracy—the critical moment where we see if political actors have embraced the spirit of cooperation and adherence to the rules that make self-government possible. There are laws for how we accomplish the orderly transfer of power, but the moment itself, the choice of a party or politician to honor to the will of the voters, is an act of democratic faith—a statement of belief in the American idea. It’s why Donald Trump earned wide condemnation when he hinted, during the 2016 election, that he would not concede the election in the event of a loss to Hillary Clinton. To reject the outcome of a fair election is to directly undermine the entire democratic project.
Republicans in Michigan, Wisconsin, and North Carolina haven’t gone as far as to challenge the results of their respective elections, but their actions, which serve to hamstring the incoming body of duly elected officials, are movement in that direction. In national politics, Republican lawmakers are openly questioning the legitimacy of the Democratic House of Representatives victory, casting ordinary acts—the counting of ballots—as potentially insidious. Indeed, much of the Republican Party has already embraced voter suppression, extreme gerrymandering, and other methods to preserve legislative majorities in the face of popular opposition. The lame-duck power grab is just a natural next step.
For all the attention on Donald Trump as a threat to American democracy, it’s these actions—from ordinary, almost anonymous, Republican politicians, uncontested by anyone of influence in the party—that are much more ominous. It’s one thing to jockey for partisan advantage, it’s something much more dangerous to treat democracy like a game of Calvinball, where the rules only count when they suit your interests.
I've been saying this for well over two years about the erosion of norms. Most of this isn't held together by any legally binding or enforceable statutes. Alot of this works on, for lack of a better term, the honor system. The idea that there has to be SOME modicum of good faith and fair play by both sides of the spectrum for this to work. And sometime in the last 6 years, one of those sides realized they could get away with anything and that, it turns out, there is nothing to stop them. And now it is snowballing downhill out of control. Soon it will be an avalanche.
They stole a Supreme Court seat. They tested this plan in NC two years ago as a lab test, and are now implementing it in the Midwest. In NC, there is every reason to believe a Congressional seat may have been stolen by ACTUAL election fraud. We all know what took place in Georgia in the run-up to that close election. And the President of the United States and everyone in his inner circle is under investigation for possibly dealing in a quid pro quo business scheme in exchange for help in winning a national election. The wheels are coming off the wagon.
@smeagolheart How long has the tribe been isolated? They are far too small to sustain a healthy population longterm. Everybody is assuming that because they are isolated NOW then it must always be okay. But genetics tells us otherwise.
Also, what are you skeptical about? That our knowledge of medcine and disease has improved in the last hundred years? That our health and quarantine protocols have changed since then? (as in, they actually EXIST now). Because if you're skeptical of this, some very very basic research will back me up.
Knowledge of medicine certainly has improved. But to know that diseases can spread from one person to the next you need to know as much about germ theory, as you need to know about genetics in order to recognize that children tend to resemble their parents. You do not need to know the exact mechanism to see the patterns. Darwin managed to invent his Theory of Evolution without being aware of the mechanics of heritability.
Historically it took a while, but isolating people with the plague (yes, quarantine protocol) was performed in medieval times. Thukydides in ancient Greece wrote about disease spreading from person to person.
The people on the island do not even need to see it as a disease. Even if they think it is poison, a curse or some other supernatural thing, it is at least likely that there are good reasons for them to have learned that strangers are dangerous.
It's impossible that the Sentenilese knew about this historical incident, but perhaps they just have a keen instinct not to trust the practice of "gift-giving". They may not be able to call it a Trojan Horse, but their version of it would mean the exact same thing:
Maybe the Sentinelese are guardians of some ancient forbidden knowledge. They're really protecting us from Cthulhu! Hmmm, that would make for an interesting novel...
BREAKING, UPDATING: The GOP locks protestors out of Wisconsin capitol to subvert democracy in secret
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1817116/-The-very-latest-on-the-GOP-s-war-on-democracy-and-voters-in-Wisconsin-and-Michigan?detail=emaildkre For a group of people who love to wrap themselves in the flag and scream “freedom” while foaming from the mouth, Republicans really don’t seem to respect democracy. This past week has seen sore GOP losers in several states move to subvert the will of voters who rejected them in November by ram through lame duck legislation that will severely curtail incoming Democratic officeholders. Things are on fire in Wisconsin and Michigan, where lawmakers and protestors are clashing as we speak. State legislators are right now debating a host of measures that would curtail early voting, limit the power of incoming Democratic Governor Tony Evers and Attorney General Josh Kaul, and keep the state in the lawsuit against Obamacare. They want to make it harder to ban guns in the Capitol and strip from Evers power to appoint people to an economic council, as well. It was a chaotic scene at in Madison on Tuesday, as protestors lined the halls of the Capitol (reminiscent of the 2011 protests) and shouted down Gov. Scott Walker. The Republican majority is clearly afraid right now, as the State Senate still hasn’t taken up a lot of the legislation, despite their plan to convene at 11 am today
On the Sentinelese. Going to the island is wrong. Killing people on sight is wrong. Turning a well meaning dead person's fate into a joke because of his Christian convictions or whatever other reason is despicable and I saw way too many people doing that in my personal lately.
@jjstraka34 not surprising that a move like that comes from Scott Walker, an odious figure who has never done a bit of good for anybody. I remember being a teenager and amazed he was voted back into office after his fight with unions when he first entered office many years ago. Never liked him.
Now if I don't get back to this project I've been procrastinating all month, i'll never get done.
@smeagolheart How long has the tribe been isolated? They are far too small to sustain a healthy population longterm. Everybody is assuming that because they are isolated NOW then it must always be okay. But genetics tells us otherwise.
Also, what are you skeptical about? That our knowledge of medcine and disease has improved in the last hundred years? That our health and quarantine protocols have changed since then? (as in, they actually EXIST now). Because if you're skeptical of this, some very very basic research will back me up.
They've been living the life they had there for tens of thousands of years supposedly (estimated 35-55k years).
I'm skeptical that the situation would be any different from other first contacts despite modern advances.
Sure there's stuff now that looks good on paper (quarantine protocols or whatever) but there's also laws that say assholes shouldn't show up on their island and that didn't help. Who outside the island truly has the islanders best interests at heart? People have their own agendas. Who's going to enforce things? The tribe doesn't want to police tourists going around the island.
Basically I'm saying that despite whatever good intentions some people may have this tribe's going to get wiped out like every other time in history things like this have happened. I think you have to know that odds are that is what will happen going in. It's naive to think otherwise.
And what's the end goal here for these islanders? Open a starbucks and a three star resort? We should just let them be. If they want out if they want help, then help and that would involve modernization. They don't want that so far.
There was a quote I saw somewhere about how africans had the land, europeans brought god. Now the europeans have the land and the africans have god.
BREAKING, UPDATING: The GOP locks protestors out of Wisconsin capitol to subvert democracy in secret
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1817116/-The-very-latest-on-the-GOP-s-war-on-democracy-and-voters-in-Wisconsin-and-Michigan?detail=emaildkre For a group of people who love to wrap themselves in the flag and scream “freedom” while foaming from the mouth, Republicans really don’t seem to respect democracy. This past week has seen sore GOP losers in several states move to subvert the will of voters who rejected them in November by ram through lame duck legislation that will severely curtail incoming Democratic officeholders. Things are on fire in Wisconsin and Michigan, where lawmakers and protestors are clashing as we speak. State legislators are right now debating a host of measures that would curtail early voting, limit the power of incoming Democratic Governor Tony Evers and Attorney General Josh Kaul, and keep the state in the lawsuit against Obamacare. They want to make it harder to ban guns in the Capitol and strip from Evers power to appoint people to an economic council, as well. It was a chaotic scene at in Madison on Tuesday, as protestors lined the halls of the Capitol (reminiscent of the 2011 protests) and shouted down Gov. Scott Walker. The Republican majority is clearly afraid right now, as the State Senate still hasn’t taken up a lot of the legislation, despite their plan to convene at 11 am today
These power grabs in Wisconsin and North Carolina are apparently brewing in Michigan too.
This has got to goddamn stop. They are destroying America, literally.
Are you ok with a one party system? Because that's the way this is headed.
Past two years we've seen Republican Mitch McConnell decide that only Republicans can pick Supreme Court Justices. North Carolina Republicans stripped all the powers from Governor Roy Cooper. Scott Walker and Wisconsin Republicans are stealing all the power from the incoming AG and Governor in a lame duck session. Senate and House Republicans spent the first two years of Trump's Presidency ignoring half the country and running things majority rules often 51-49 in the Senate instead of doing what's best for the country. There's been massive voter fraud and election fraud in North Carolina with Republicans paying people to take absentee ballots and change them to the Republican. Brian Kemp just stole the Govenorship of Georgia with voter suppression.
America is literally under attack by Republicans. Literally under attack. Death by one thousand cuts. This isn't pizzagate fantasy made up fever dreams this is really happening.
Michael Cohen is the beginning of the end of the Trump Administration
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1816854/-Michael-Cohen-is-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-Trump-Administration?detail=emaildkre However, I think the truth is that the beginning of the end was months before this. I think it was when the FBI raided Cohen’s home and office and gained access to all his documents which led to his initial guilty plea for campaign finance violations for trying to pay off Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal to remain silent about their affairs with Trump. He said at that time that he performed those actions “at the request of the candidate” which was the first time that Trump was personally named in a criminal proceeding as an unindicted co-conspirator. At that point it was already likely that Trump had a sealed indictment waiting for him after he left office. Everything else is making it more and more likely that he just might be out of office sometime before 2020. I want this to happen, but UGH. President Pence....
Oncology nurse deported by Trump admin over a year ago wins fight to return to U.S.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816763/-Oncology-nurse-deported-by-Trump-admin-over-a-year-ago-wins-fight-to-return-to-U-S?detail=emaildkre It’s been over a year since oncology nurse Maria Mendoza-Sanchez and her husband were deported to Mexico, becoming emblematic of the Trump administration’s cruel tactics targeting immigrants with no criminal record while simultaneously claiming the exact opposite. With three older children choosing to remain here, Mendoza-Sanchez pledged to keep fighting in order return home to the U.S. Last Friday, she found out she had won that fight. “The journey home required a winning ticket in a visa lottery this spring, then a series of approvals from agencies in a Trump administration that has taken an increasingly hard line on immigration from Latin America,” the San Francisco Chronicle reported. “The visa is an H-1B, reserved for skilled workers such as nurses in hospital cancer wards.”
Mueller Memo on Flynn ... cooperation & collusion as #TrumpRussia closes in on Individual 1
21-year-old black man fatally shot from behind three times by cop, video still not released
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816803/-21-year-old-black-man-fatally-shot-from-behind-three-times-by-cop-video-still-not-released?detail=emaildkre On Thanksgiving, a so-far-unnamed police officer shot and killed Emantic "EJ" Bradford Jr. at the Riverchase Galleria in Hoover, Alabama; they believed was responsible for shooting two people in the mall. The explanation police offered was that Bradford had a gun (later revealed to be licensed and legal) and was seen fleeing the scene (witnesses later explained that Bradford attempted to usher people to safety). Initially, police had reported that Bradford, at the time the suspected shooter, was dead, and that therefore the mall was again safe. Then they released an update that Bradford was likely not the shooter, and that the suspect was still on the loose. They’ve since released another update, saying that U.S. marshals arrested Erron Brown, the suspected gunman, on Thursday. Brown faces charges of attempted murder. What all of these updates cannot change is that Bradford, a 21-year-old Army veteran and aspiring police officer, is still dead.
@smeagolheart I'm saying that the tribe living isolated that long is IMPOSSIBLE without outside contact. The inbreediing would have led to CRIPPLING defects within more than a few generations.
Comments
They're basically a sovereign nation right. They have one law "don't come here". Genuis broke the one law.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/world/asia/anthropologist-india-andaman-island-tribes.html
Here's what happened when these other islands were contacted:
In 1869, their children ended up in an orphanage. Soon, several epidemics engulfed them– syphilis (1875), ophthalmia (1876), measles (1877), mumps (1886), influenza (1981) and gonorrhoea (1892), which steadily shrank their population, from 3,500 (1858), to 2,000 (1888), 625 (1901), 455 (1911), 209 (1921), and then down to 90 (1931).
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/27/missionary-death-sentinelese-andaman-islands
@smeagolheart And most of those cases were over 100 years ago. Germ theory, infectious diseases, sterilization, our knowledge in all of these areas is much greater than back then. We actually have protocols for interacting with isolated populations safely these days.
Elsewhere on free movement gone wrong, I'm delighted over the turn that Brexit has taken. For now at least it seems as if parliament may finally be willing to confront the referendum result and take a step back from the brink. Direct democracy is such a blunt instrument that it can easily shatter a country if you ask the 'wrong' question. Over two years on and there is still no consensus on the right answer, only agreement on rejecting most of what's available.
Forcing them to adopt your concept of morality and society, subjecting them to a series of laws that they've never known and are not familiar with, and then prosecute them ex post facto (to them, they dont have this law) is definitely tyrannical.
All the while you're risking their entire population on the assumption that we can be 100% certain not to transmit any disease to them (we cant be - an arrow can probably puncture a hazmat suit. This plan isnt fool proof), and putting law enforcement in harm's way in case they react violently.
You've said a few times that their population isnt sustainable. Two thoughts: A) - Clearly their current survival on the island suggests otherwise (up to this point). B ) - They evidently had a population in the thousands, which has declined to its current state in part because of unwanted, forced human action.
Keep in mind that just as handing a blanket covered in smallpox to a Native American is murder, so is willfully putting yourself in a position to transmit diseases to a population. You may not even mean to hurt anyone - but if you know it's a possibility, and you risk their lives that way... it's still murder.
To end, consider this (rhetorically) - what odds would you be okay with for your plan? Let's say the odds are 80% that you do not communicate a disease to this population. Is that good enough, knowing there's a 20% chance that most or all of the population on this island may die?
Edit: I want to backtrack (a bit) on the argument that putting yourself into a society knowing you could transmit a disease is murder. Going back to the drunk driver analogy I used before, it's pretty hard to convict someone of DUI murder rather than manslaughter. Source: https://dui.findlaw.com/dui-charges/dui-manslaughter-and-dui-murder.html
One they get a toehold in, you're going to die and your culture will be destroyed. Skeptical.
Now, if you are going to another star via a generation ship, the calculation is you need 160 people for a trip of 8 to 10 generations.
It's my understanding that the minimum number of isolated human beings needed to maintain enough genetic diversity to avoid a catastrophic epidemic is 10,000.
You're framing this whole argument as:
(i) a civilian interaction
(ii) using the laws of just one of the parties.
In relation to (i) an equally valid frame of reference would be that the Sentinilese are at war with the outside world. Their past experience of interactions has not generally been a happy one, but they do not strike me as senselessly violent. Even in the case of Chau they didn't fire at him the first time he went there - only when he repeated the visit (potentially confirming his status in their eyes as a combatant). There are plenty of real world examples of how we use these different frames of reference to avoid killings being considered murder. Think of the 'war on terror' for example and consider what defense a border guard would make when an intruder comes across a border apparently armed with a bomb - and such a situation would constitute a miniscule threat to the country compared to the mere presence of people with the Sentinilese.
In relation to (ii) I do have sympathy with the idea that there are universal human rights and that therefore we can reasonably apply those to the Sentinilese whether or not they are aware of them. However, if we are applying a universal right to life it has to apply both ways. Civilians attempting to make contact with the tribe clearly constitute a real danger to not just their way of life, but to life itself. In those circumstances I don't see any reasonable argument for considering this killing to be a murder.
I also agree with @Mantis37 that considering the Prime Directive is relevant here. If we interact with this culture we will destroy it, whether or not any of the existing people survive. I'm not saying that automatically means we shouldn't interact, but it's a question that should be considered. Historical examples of forced integration of tribespeople should at least justify a pause for reflection before determining that the Sentinilese would be better off in our culture.
As far as Star Trek goes, I'm not sure just how closely most of the series even follow the Prime Directive. The incarnation most obsessed with adhering to it was The Next Generation. Incidentally, that was by far the best the franchise has ever been. It's hard to imagine we should actually introduce a fictional philosophy into this discussion, but it is so novel it is actual worthy of it. It states:
The Prime Directive prohibits Starfleet personnel and spacecraft from interfering in the normal development of any society, and mandates that any Starfleet vessel or crew member is expendable to prevent violation of this rule.
As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation.
Meaning that the life of any individual member of Starfleet, or even an entire crew or ship was to be sacrificed before breaking the Prime Directive.
It is also worth mentioning Manafort breaking the terms of his plea deal last week. I'm am becoming increasingly convinced Manafort was feeding information to the Trump team from the inside, and that Mueller's team was LETTING him do this.
As I heard someone on a podcast mention today, imagine you ask your professor to take a test early. He allows you to do this, but you then tell all your friends the questions and answers. But the professor has anticipated this, and creates an entirely new test for everyone else, who promptly show up and then proceed to answer all the questions correctly......for the wrong test.
I saw this too. It's a big deal, and it sounds like there's more and more coming down. To be honest, it makes me worry that the investigation will take long enough that Whittaker (and whomever replaces him as AG in the long run) will be able to stifle the report and/or investigation. When you see just how much redacted information there is, I cannot help but think this thing wont resolve in 2019.
In lame-duck push, Michigan Republicans vote to gut wage, paid leave laws
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/lame-duck-push-michigan-republicans-vote-gut-wage-paid-leave-n943741?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_lwJust because they had to give a lifted middle finger to those who didn't re-elect them, I suppose...
Lawsuits are likely if the GOP governor signs the measures into law.
Donald Trump v the world: US tariffs in four charts
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45415861?fbclid=IwAR1qVkll1S0vyIvudGBreRnTZ9NEeqRb_eudkbZQxv9RX4rj9jZsvUxjWeMFrom Spanish olives to Canadian steel, no corner of the world has been untouched by US trade tariffs - a tax on foreign products - since President Trump entered the White House.
Mueller is about to have his say -- in a big way
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/12/03/opinions/mueller-is-about-to-have-his-say-honig/index.html?fbclid=IwAR34kYRn7pKYWN76LGdZEVv-zTAxbwjcAhHftwcWVYWPrz0AO4w7h20PODIThis week, Mueller is due to make three crucial court filings -- sentencing memos for Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort. Each document will tell us something important about what the future holds for these defendants and, more importantly, about what Mueller knows and where he might be headed.
Mueller says Flynn 'substantially' aided probe of possible links between Russia, Trump campaign
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-flynn/muellers-office-to-recommend-sentencing-for-ex-trump-aide-flynn-idUSKBN1O3169?fbclid=IwAR0MqCr6LeaqTW0fZA33N0ol2mRJQX84GCd6tECeEGheTboCJT9crsSp-XkMore reason for Trump to panic, it seems. "Flynn also provided “firsthand information about the content and context of interactions between the transition team and Russian government officials,” the filing said."
Mueller is about to drop major new details about 3 of the most important players in the Russia probe
https://amp.businessinsider.com/mueller-sentencing-memos-manafort-cohen-flynn-2018-12?fbclid=IwAR2x8gwsdZUNmTSFnszKb4q42bE5QXk_JVwaT8u1PcWwOSoueD_1U41K14c"Cohen's lawyers, meanwhile, submitted a sentencing memo on his behalf last week that contained a slew of bombshells about Trump and his interactions with Cohen last year and before the 2016 election.
Among other things, his lawyers said that when Cohen was breaking campaign finance laws at Trump's direction before the election, Cohen was also keeping Trump "contemporaneously informed" of his actions.
They also said Cohen was "in close and regular contact" with Trump's lawyers and White House staffers while he was drafting false testimony to give to Congress last year about his involvement in the Trump Organization's effort to build a Trump Tower in Moscow during the election."
Mueller’s Russia probe, by the numbers
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/muellers-russia-probe-by-the-numbers?fbclid=IwAR1VVk4usNgzfn1rmtpDjXvlyjSLf-NZbYHt9d1XXZQxpIbxiS7RYpO7OlE33: the number of people who have been charged with crimes since the probe began. This includes 13 Russian nationals and 12 Russian intelligence officers. (Three companies have been charged as well).
Hilarious Supercut Shows Donald Trump Wandering Off During Important Events
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-walking-away-supercut_us_5c06486ce4b07aec57521b6a?fbclid=IwAR3OGCfFSZKHV_furCbPTVMP7nedoSpd32w8_TXUt1GrXqpdQf5ynyvtGr4From the G-20 meeting to news conferences, it just keeps happening.
Heart-wrenching photos show General Motors workers wiping away tears after company laid off more than 14,000 people without warning, just before the holidays
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6435109/Emotional-GM-workers-wipe-tears-away-thousands-laid-ahead-holidays.html?fbclid=IwAR33d3L6XhZ4rsakiSsahLVGnxMz-6zPh7EzlzDUDwvP17oElHlDtzQy3dMThere's 14,000 lost for Trump, at the very least, not to mention all their friends and relatives.
Mueller urges no prison time for Flynn after ‘substantial’ aid
13 Trump entities being subpoenaed in case targeting president’s D.C. hotel
https://www.washingtonpost.com/Researchers have found strong evidence that racism helps the GOP win
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/03/researchers-have-found-strong-evidence-that-racism-helps-the-gop-win/?fbclid=IwAR3hUJbd_YYXq995pvP9sYR4xVBcpIwEzUQTcF0cEhrJMY470cO8mc7hSM0&utm_term=.330248739e31In the South, it seems, old prejudices have persisted. Southern counties that had more slaves on the eve of the Civil War are distinct from their neighbors: White residents in those areas are more hostile toward African Americans and they are more likely to vote Republican today, new research shows. Drawing on archival Census figures and recent polls, the study adds to an expanding body of evidence on the importance of racial anxiety to the predominantly white Republican coalition.
Cracks appear in Trump’s claims of China trade agreement
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/i-am-a-tariff-man-trump-says-as-china-talks-show-signs-of-sputtering/2018/12/04/516425e4-f7e0-11e8-8c9a-860ce2a8148f_story.html?fbclid=IwAR2kZbuM5WbWjNOENAKTeXLt0oHyvvB3OqLkqLwndc_PZOdAV0UOKnHWQzI&utm_term=.2b3ad7a75017President Trump’s claims of a new trade agreement with Chinese President Xi Jinping showed signs of crumbling Tuesday, with senior officials seeking to play down expectations of a breakthrough and acknowledging that major provisions remained in flux.
Whoa! Defense Secretary Jim Mattis lets the world know who's in charge
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/1/1816491/-Whoa-Defense-Secretary-Jim-Mattis-lets-the-world-know-who-s-in-charge?detail=emaildkreDefense Secretary Jim Mattis on Saturday took aim at Russian President Vladimir Putin, accusing him of trying to “muck around” in the U.S. midterm elections, of duplicity in arms control and of acting irresponsibly in last weekend’s naval confrontation with Ukraine.
In remarks at the Reagan National Defense Forum in Simi Valley, California, Mattis said the U.S.-Russian relationship has deteriorated over the last two years.
“We are dealing with someone that we simply cannot trust,” he said. “There is no doubt the relationship has worsened.”
Mattis did not elaborate on his claim that Russia tried to interfere in last month’s elections, adding only, “We are seeing a continued effort along those lines.” He added more generally, “It’s his efforts to try to subvert democratic processes that must be defended.”
A Brutal AP Fact Check Exposes Trump's Intellectual Laziness and Hostility Toward the Truth
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/1/1816521/-A-Brutal-AP-Fact-Check-Exposes-Trump-s-Intellectual-Laziness-and-Hostility-Toward-the-Truth?detail=emaildkreThe Associated Press took inventory of some of the President's recent public remarks and compared them to reality. The result is a pathetic and troubling expose of a man completely unfit to lead a remedial scout troop, much less the most powerful nation on the planet.
The AP described Trump's failings as a "slippery grasp of science as well as trade policy." But their observations go way beyond that, covering most of the subjects that will eventually touch every American's life.
"TRUMP: (On the confrontation between migrants trying to rush into the U.S. and authorities who used tear gas to drive them back): "Three Border Patrol people yesterday were very badly hurt, getting hit with rocks and stones."
THE FACTS: This didn't happen, according to the account by the commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, Kevin McAleenan. He said there were no "reported serious injuries on either side of the border."
In Memo Asking Clemency Cohen Reveals He Worked With Trump's Lawyers Preparing False Cong. Testimony
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/1/1816436/-In-Memo-Asking-Clemency-Cohen-Reveals-He-Worked-With-Trump-s-Lawyers-Preparing-False-Cong-Testimony?detail=emaildkreRussian state media: Trump 'seems to be an unbalanced person'
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/2/1816578/-Russian-state-media-Trump-seems-to-be-an-unbalanced-person?detail=emaildkreFollowing the abrupt cancellation of Donald Trump’s G20 meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Russian state media roasted him. Known for seamlessly adhering to the Kremlin’s viewpoint, the troupe of Putin’s cheerleaders took turns laying into the president of the United States.
In an opinion piece for the Russian publication “Arguments and Facts,” Veronika Krasheninnikova, “Director General of the Institute for Foreign Policy Studies & Initiatives, Advisor to the Director General of 'Russia Today' and a member of the Kremlin-appointed Russian Public Chamber,” says that in light of the canceled meeting, Russia can now give up on the U.S. and “should have never trusted Trump to begin with.”'
Major Fraud by Republicans alleged in North Carolina's 9th District - A do-over election next?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/1/1816532/-Major-Voter-Fraud-by-Republicans-alleged-in-North-Carolina-s-9th-District-A-do-over-election-next?detail=emaildkreAmong the allegations is that an individual who worked for the Harris campaign coordinated an effort to collect and fill in, or discard, the ballots of Democratic voters who might have otherwise voted for McCready. Several of the affidavits come from elderly African American voters. It is illegal to take someone else’s ballot, whether to turn it in or discard it.
Officials are also examining unusually high numbers of absentee ballots cast in some precincts in the 9th District — and unusually high numbers of ballots requested but never returned. Harris’s narrow victory over incumbent Rep. Robert Pittenger (R-N.C.) in the Republican primary is also under scrutiny, with new attention on the incredibly high proportion of absentee ballots — 96 percent — that Harris won in Bladen County.
Rudy Giuliani accidentally created a new website link, and an internet prankster went to work
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816747/-Rudy-Giuliani-accidentally-created-a-new-website-link-and-an-internet-prankster-went-to-work?detail=emaildkreIf you click on the link to the website Giuliani accidentally created, a webpage comes up with the words, "Donald J. Trump is a traitor to our country".
Swiftboater Jerome Corsi Files Criminal Complaint To Disbar Mueller Indict Him For Witness Tampering
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816754/-Political-CT-Hack-Jerome-Corsi-Files-Lawsuit-To-Indict-Mueller-For-Witness-Tampering-Disbar-Him?detail=emaildkreFor those of you worried that Trump's actions would lead to a constitutional crisis, worry no more. We’re there. This is going to get very ugly.
Wisconsin Democrats vow to fight Republican 'attempt to undermine the election'
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816741/-Wisconsin-Democrats-vow-to-fight-Republican-attempt-to-undermine-the-election?detail=emaildkreWisconsin Republicans are gearing up this week to use a lame-duck legislative session to subvert democracy by stripping powers from the governor now that he’s going to be a Democrat. It’s even possible that Republicans will attack Gov.-elect Tony Evers’ ability to veto their next gerrymandering effort. The plot is getting started with a Monday hearing, and it’s not just Evers in the crosshairs: Wisconsin’s next attorney general is also a Democrat, so Republicans are planning to weaken that office, and they want to spend $7 million changing the date of the state’s presidential primary to help a conservative win a state Supreme Court election.
Trump Mar-a-Lago friend pressured the VA to adopt a mobile app he himself developed
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816771/-Trump-Mar-a-Lago-friend-pressured-the-VA-to-adopt-a-mobile-app-he-himself-developed?detail=emaildkreThe refrain here is a familiar one: the wealthy Trump Mar-a-Lago friend mistrusted or was unimpressed with the entire collected expertise of the department's government team, instead deeming his own technology insights to be superior and the department's problems to be best solved by, as sheer coincidence, a product he himself was marketing. Moskowitz also pressured the VA into organizing a conference on medical device registries, the core topic of a foundation he founded from which his wife was drawing a salary, despite the government already having an effective such system in place.
Rep.-elect Ocasio-Cortez blasts lawmakers with livable salaries who are looking for free labor
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816832/-Rep-Ocasio-Cortez-blasts-lawmakers-looking-for-free-labor-while-budgeting-their-own-livable-salary?detail=emaildkreYet another slap across the face to Republicans who ask how America is going to pay for something Democrats want to do, but want to hire help and assistants for FREE.
Florida police chief guilty of framing innocent black men gets a shorter sentence than his victims
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816782/-Florida-police-chief-guilty-of-framing-innocent-black-men-gets-a-shorter-sentence-than-his-victims?detail=emaildkreThree years. One of his victims got 5 and was subsequently deported to Haiti.
Multiple people witnessed absentee ballot signatures in NC-09--hardest proof yet of fraud
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816837/-Multiple-people-witnessed-absentee-ballot-signatures-in-NC-09-hardest-proof-yet-of-fraud?detail=emaildkreIt has since become apparent that there was a rank odor surrounding this race. Specifically, in absentee ballots on the far eastern end of the district, which was reconfigured to stretch from south Charlotte all the way to Fayetteville. There have been claims of out-and-out criminal conduct—like ballots being collected before being completed, and in some cases filled in with votes for Harris when the rest of the ballot pattern indicated they would have voted for McCready. Additionally, a number of analysts have found suspicious anomalies in absentee ballots from the two most rural counties in the district, Bladen and Robeson. Not only were there a large number of unreturned ballots, but Harris reportedly won almost two-thirds of absentee ballots in Bladen County—a pattern not repeated elsewhere in the district.
An upcoming Georgia election offers hope for undoing Republican voter suppression
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816736/-An-upcoming-election-in-Georgia-offers-hope-for-undoing-Republican-voter-suppression?detail=emaildkreAs we saw in Georgia’s gubernatorial race, the secretary of state has the power to rig elections by controlling access to the ballot. Ideally, the person in that role should want as many people as possible to vote in elections that are fair and democratic. But that’s not what’s happening here. The contrast between Barrow and Raffensperger couldn’t be more stark. Barrow wants to reverse Kemp’s restrictive policies and plans to make it easier for Georgians to vote by implementing automatic voter registration and replacing electronic voting machines, which are vulnerable to hacking and prone to malfunction, with paper ballots.
On the other hand, Raffensperger supports Kemp’s work and has called him “a man of high integrity.” He’s another conspiracist who believes that we need to crack down on “illegal voting” (which has been a right-wing talking point for years without any basis in fact or proof) and he’s been endorsed by Donald Trump, who we can be assured does not know what a secretary of state actually does.
A legislative coup just took place in Wisconsin. I'm at a real goddamn loss as to what the options are to change things at the ballot box for Wisconsin voters. They win over 60% of the vote for statewide Congressional seats but end up with roughly 40% of the seats because of gerrymandering. The State speaks clearly and elects a new Democratic Governor and Attorney General, and the Republican Legislature and outgoing (defeated) Governor use the lame duck to strip these offices of massive amounts of power (that Walker himself benefited from) for NO other reason than that Democrats are taking the seats, changing the very nature of the offices that were just voted on.
If they can't have power, then they will simply break all norms and nullify the election results. If they can't hold those offices, they'd rather burn democracy to the ground. This is now a explicit tactic being used after elections in any State where this dynamic exists. If you want the #1 reason why I despise this vile party, this is it. I'm posting this full article from Slate because it's so damn important:
In 2012, North Carolina Republicans won a “trifecta” of legislative and executive power. They used their newfound power to aggressively gerrymander the electoral map and impose new restrictions on voting. In 2016, Democrats reversed those gains, narrowly toppling incumbent Gov. Pat McCrory—and the GOP Legislature responded by stripping the incoming executive of key powers and privileges. Before Democrats took their seats, Republicans ended the governor’s control of election boards, withdrew the office’s ability to make appointments to the state school board and the University of North Carolina’s Board of Trustees, slashed the overall number of jobs appointed by the governor from 1,500 to 300, and made Cabinet nominations subject to state Senate approval.
Rather than accept the will of the voters, who empowered the new governor to take the reins of the state government, Republicans entrenched their influence and undermined gubernatorial authority in an effort to avoid and undermine democratic accountability.
At the time, this anti-democratic maneuvering appeared exceptional to North Carolina. But in the wake of major Democratic victories in the 2018 midterm elections, it seems it was the canary in the coal mine.
Democrats won important victories in Republican-controlled Midwestern states that backed Donald Trump for president, in many instances, flipping the control of state legislatures. Democrats in Michigan won close races for governor, attorney general, and secretary of state while Democrats in Wisconsin won races for governor—sweeping incumbent Scott Walker out of office—and attorney general. Instead of allowing power to shift without contest, Republicans in both states are now fighting rear-guard actions to strip authority from these offices, using “lame duck” sessions to launch what are effectively legislative coup d’états.
In Wisconsin, GOP lawmakers have advanced bills to sharply limit the power of the incoming governor, Tony Evers. The measures will restrict his ability to run public benefits programs and curb his authority to set rules on the implementation of state laws. They’ve also placed a legislative veto on any effort to ban guns from the state capitol and ended gubernatorial control over the Walker-created agency that uses taxpayer-funded loans and subsidies to attract outside businesses.
Republicans have also planned an attack on the attorney general’s office. They’ve eliminated the (recently created) office of the solicitor general, established a new legislative power to intervene in any litigation challenging a state law (even allowing lawmakers to hire their own lawyers, at taxpayer expense, to undermine the attorney general), given legislators control over money from court settlements, and given the legislature’s budget committee, rather than the attorney general, the right to decide on continued legal action against the Affordable Care Act. The scope of these changes is a sign of the state GOP’s confidence in its ability to hold the Legislature—confidence that stems from the party’s extreme partisan gerrymandering that has created a firewall such that Republicans can resist anything short of a tsunami of opposition. To that end, Wisconsin Republicans also want new limits on early voting.
It’s an almost identical situation in Michigan, where Democrats have captured all three statewide offices—governor, attorney general, and secretary of state—for the first time in 28 years. There, Republican lawmakers have introduced several lame-duck proposals for wresting power from incoming Democratic officeholders. First is a bill that would allow the legislature to intervene in any legal proceedings involving state laws that the governor and attorney general may be reluctant to defend. A separate proposal would shift oversight of campaign finance law from the secretary of state to a six-person commission with members nominated by the state Republican and Democratic parties, a move that would produce deadlock in handling those issues, likely entrenching a status quo shaped by Republican officials.
Even the best defense of these moves—that they are simply an effort to protect the gains and accomplishments of the previous majority—accepts the anti-democratic reasoning that an outgoing majority is not bound by the results of an election, and instead has the right to change the rules of the game to preserve its power.
The peaceful uncontested transfer of power is the cornerstone of representative democracy—the critical moment where we see if political actors have embraced the spirit of cooperation and adherence to the rules that make self-government possible. There are laws for how we accomplish the orderly transfer of power, but the moment itself, the choice of a party or politician to honor to the will of the voters, is an act of democratic faith—a statement of belief in the American idea. It’s why Donald Trump earned wide condemnation when he hinted, during the 2016 election, that he would not concede the election in the event of a loss to Hillary Clinton. To reject the outcome of a fair election is to directly undermine the entire democratic project.
Republicans in Michigan, Wisconsin, and North Carolina haven’t gone as far as to challenge the results of their respective elections, but their actions, which serve to hamstring the incoming body of duly elected officials, are movement in that direction. In national politics, Republican lawmakers are openly questioning the legitimacy of the Democratic House of Representatives victory, casting ordinary acts—the counting of ballots—as potentially insidious. Indeed, much of the Republican Party has already embraced voter suppression, extreme gerrymandering, and other methods to preserve legislative majorities in the face of popular opposition. The lame-duck power grab is just a natural next step.
For all the attention on Donald Trump as a threat to American democracy, it’s these actions—from ordinary, almost anonymous, Republican politicians, uncontested by anyone of influence in the party—that are much more ominous. It’s one thing to jockey for partisan advantage, it’s something much more dangerous to treat democracy like a game of Calvinball, where the rules only count when they suit your interests.
I've been saying this for well over two years about the erosion of norms. Most of this isn't held together by any legally binding or enforceable statutes. Alot of this works on, for lack of a better term, the honor system. The idea that there has to be SOME modicum of good faith and fair play by both sides of the spectrum for this to work. And sometime in the last 6 years, one of those sides realized they could get away with anything and that, it turns out, there is nothing to stop them. And now it is snowballing downhill out of control. Soon it will be an avalanche.
They stole a Supreme Court seat. They tested this plan in NC two years ago as a lab test, and are now implementing it in the Midwest. In NC, there is every reason to believe a Congressional seat may have been stolen by ACTUAL election fraud. We all know what took place in Georgia in the run-up to that close election. And the President of the United States and everyone in his inner circle is under investigation for possibly dealing in a quid pro quo business scheme in exchange for help in winning a national election. The wheels are coming off the wagon.
Also, what are you skeptical about? That our knowledge of medcine and disease has improved in the last hundred years? That our health and quarantine protocols have changed since then? (as in, they actually EXIST now). Because if you're skeptical of this, some very very basic research will back me up.
Historically it took a while, but isolating people with the plague (yes, quarantine protocol) was performed in medieval times. Thukydides in ancient Greece wrote about disease spreading from person to person.
The people on the island do not even need to see it as a disease. Even if they think it is poison, a curse or some other supernatural thing, it is at least likely that there are good reasons for them to have learned that strangers are dangerous.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Fort_Pitt?wprov=sfla1
BREAKING, UPDATING: The GOP locks protestors out of Wisconsin capitol to subvert democracy in secret
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1817116/-The-very-latest-on-the-GOP-s-war-on-democracy-and-voters-in-Wisconsin-and-Michigan?detail=emaildkreFor a group of people who love to wrap themselves in the flag and scream “freedom” while foaming from the mouth, Republicans really don’t seem to respect democracy. This past week has seen sore GOP losers in several states move to subvert the will of voters who rejected them in November by ram through lame duck legislation that will severely curtail incoming Democratic officeholders. Things are on fire in Wisconsin and Michigan, where lawmakers and protestors are clashing as we speak.
State legislators are right now debating a host of measures that would curtail early voting, limit the power of incoming Democratic Governor Tony Evers and Attorney General Josh Kaul, and keep the state in the lawsuit against Obamacare. They want to make it harder to ban guns in the Capitol and strip from Evers power to appoint people to an economic council, as well. It was a chaotic scene at in Madison on Tuesday, as protestors lined the halls of the Capitol (reminiscent of the 2011 protests) and shouted down Gov. Scott Walker.
The Republican majority is clearly afraid right now, as the State Senate still hasn’t taken up a lot of the legislation, despite their plan to convene at 11 am today
@jjstraka34 not surprising that a move like that comes from Scott Walker, an odious figure who has never done a bit of good for anybody. I remember being a teenager and amazed he was voted back into office after his fight with unions when he first entered office many years ago. Never liked him.
Now if I don't get back to this project I've been procrastinating all month, i'll never get done.
They've been living the life they had there for tens of thousands of years supposedly (estimated 35-55k years).
I'm skeptical that the situation would be any different from other first contacts despite modern advances.
Sure there's stuff now that looks good on paper (quarantine protocols or whatever) but there's also laws that say assholes shouldn't show up on their island and that didn't help. Who outside the island truly has the islanders best interests at heart? People have their own agendas. Who's going to enforce things? The tribe doesn't want to police tourists going around the island.
Basically I'm saying that despite whatever good intentions some people may have this tribe's going to get wiped out like every other time in history things like this have happened. I think you have to know that odds are that is what will happen going in. It's naive to think otherwise.
And what's the end goal here for these islanders? Open a starbucks and a three star resort? We should just let them be. If they want out if they want help, then help and that would involve modernization. They don't want that so far.
There was a quote I saw somewhere about how africans had the land, europeans brought god. Now the europeans have the land and the africans have god.
This has got to goddamn stop. They are destroying America, literally.
Are you ok with a one party system? Because that's the way this is headed.
Past two years we've seen Republican Mitch McConnell decide that only Republicans can pick Supreme Court Justices. North Carolina Republicans stripped all the powers from Governor Roy Cooper. Scott Walker and Wisconsin Republicans are stealing all the power from the incoming AG and Governor in a lame duck session. Senate and House Republicans spent the first two years of Trump's Presidency ignoring half the country and running things majority rules often 51-49 in the Senate instead of doing what's best for the country. There's been massive voter fraud and election fraud in North Carolina with Republicans paying people to take absentee ballots and change them to the Republican. Brian Kemp just stole the Govenorship of Georgia with voter suppression.
America is literally under attack by Republicans. Literally under attack. Death by one thousand cuts. This isn't pizzagate fantasy made up fever dreams this is really happening.
We're all losing America.
Mueller says Michael Flynn gave 'first-hand' details of Trump transition team contacts with Russians
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/12/04/robert-mueller-sentencing-memo-for-former-trump-advisor-michael-flynn.html?fbclid=IwAR1NoH_ZsE-OSPfXuugkg2PySypiiFIu_sf8RAcVw14L6SkPivIvF8JTsxYI knew that Trump was lying about Russia from day 1. Anyone who claims so many times he has no link to Russia is lying about something. It's like the old joke. "How do you know when Trump is lying? His lips are moving."
Trump got reassurances from Bush family that nobody would say mean things about him at the funeral
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1817044/-Trump-got-reassurances-from-the-Bush-family-nobody-would-say-mean-things-about-him-at-the-funeral?detail=emaildkreThe Article calls Trump "President Man-Baby", and sometimes, I think that's a pretty fair assessment of how he acts.
Michael Cohen is the beginning of the end of the Trump Administration
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1816854/-Michael-Cohen-is-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-Trump-Administration?detail=emaildkreHowever, I think the truth is that the beginning of the end was months before this. I think it was when the FBI raided Cohen’s home and office and gained access to all his documents which led to his initial guilty plea for campaign finance violations for trying to pay off Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal to remain silent about their affairs with Trump. He said at that time that he performed those actions “at the request of the candidate” which was the first time that Trump was personally named in a criminal proceeding as an unindicted co-conspirator.
At that point it was already likely that Trump had a sealed indictment waiting for him after he left office. Everything else is making it more and more likely that he just might be out of office sometime before 2020.
I want this to happen, but UGH. President Pence....
Oncology nurse deported by Trump admin over a year ago wins fight to return to U.S.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816763/-Oncology-nurse-deported-by-Trump-admin-over-a-year-ago-wins-fight-to-return-to-U-S?detail=emaildkreIt’s been over a year since oncology nurse Maria Mendoza-Sanchez and her husband were deported to Mexico, becoming emblematic of the Trump administration’s cruel tactics targeting immigrants with no criminal record while simultaneously claiming the exact opposite. With three older children choosing to remain here, Mendoza-Sanchez pledged to keep fighting in order return home to the U.S. Last Friday, she found out she had won that fight.
“The journey home required a winning ticket in a visa lottery this spring, then a series of approvals from agencies in a Trump administration that has taken an increasingly hard line on immigration from Latin America,” the San Francisco Chronicle reported. “The visa is an H-1B, reserved for skilled workers such as nurses in hospital cancer wards.”
Mueller Memo on Flynn ... cooperation & collusion as #TrumpRussia closes in on Individual 1
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1816986/-Mueller-Memo-on-Flynn-cooperation-amp-collusion-as-TrumpRussia-closes-in-on-Individual-1?detail=emaildkreThis article lays out the timeline on Flynn working for Trump and what has happened since.
What do you Think the Redacted "Investigation A" Is that Flynn provided Significant Assistance with?
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1817119/-What-do-you-Think-the-Redacted-Investigation-A-Is-that-Flynn-provided-Significant-Assistance-with?detail=emaildkreI think it's campaign finance with the payments to Stormy Daniels, et al.
Flynn's sentencing documents show that he cooperated extensively on at least four different topics
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/5/1817045/-Flynn-s-sentencing-documents-show-that-he-cooperated-extensively-on-at-least-four-different-topics?detail=emaildkreI wonder what they are. Seems like we'll find out pretty soon.
After Trump nicknames himself "Tariff Man" the stock market plunges
https://boingboing.net/2018/12/04/after-trump-nicknames-himself.html?fbclid=IwAR2Ohr6hlNLNQiKnRXujk1_Wb7nyDcX_dQMbL58XcuwhrDHHOzNVfe9s0OMWell, he can't blame this one on the Democrats, even though he probably will try to, anyway. Either that, or he just won't mention it, like he did after the last time the Stock Market dropped.
Here Are 202 Companies Hurt by Trump's Tariffs
https://reason.com/archives/2018/09/14/tariff-victims?fbclid=IwAR0oTWDqVW4TyFaxM3TSpX0eG8uuJRzfBIs7z5MrGHXQo21EJKDXdTawoyQNot only which companies, but how they were hurt.
Three Bannon events in a row canceled in Montana—including a sex robot conference
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/4/1817068/-Steve-Bannon-cancels-University-of-Montana-event-because-he-s-headlining-a-robot-sex-conference?detail=emaildkreJust the words "sex robot conference" makes me shake my head. I guess that's what he's reduced to now.
21-year-old black man fatally shot from behind three times by cop, video still not released
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/12/3/1816803/-21-year-old-black-man-fatally-shot-from-behind-three-times-by-cop-video-still-not-released?detail=emaildkreOn Thanksgiving, a so-far-unnamed police officer shot and killed Emantic "EJ" Bradford Jr. at the Riverchase Galleria in Hoover, Alabama; they believed was responsible for shooting two people in the mall. The explanation police offered was that Bradford had a gun (later revealed to be licensed and legal) and was seen fleeing the scene (witnesses later explained that Bradford attempted to usher people to safety).
Initially, police had reported that Bradford, at the time the suspected shooter, was dead, and that therefore the mall was again safe. Then they released an update that Bradford was likely not the shooter, and that the suspect was still on the loose. They’ve since released another update, saying that U.S. marshals arrested Erron Brown, the suspected gunman, on Thursday. Brown faces charges of attempted murder.
What all of these updates cannot change is that Bradford, a 21-year-old Army veteran and aspiring police officer, is still dead.