This fairly insignificant event has gotten way too heated even here. I'm legitimately exhausted from talking about, I suspect because it speaks to a visceral divide that can't be bridged and has never been bridged since our ancestors landed here or walked off the boat. I think the idea of America is a nice fairy tale. Then I remember that everything I enjoy from my perch at one point in the past came because slavery built the economic base of the country and genocide is how we acquired the land.
Egypt used slavery to build their empire, so did the Romans, Greeks, Chinese, Mongols, Scythians, Persians, Babylonians, Brits, Assyrians, French, Belgians, Dutch, Indian, Japanese, Ottomans, Russians, and every other dominant society in history. Human society is evolving past all that. At what point is it relegated to ancient history? Living in the past is supposed to be a conservative trait, not liberal.
Normally I avoid this discussion like the plague, but I am just so outraged right now...
Kids being harassed and bullied by adults. That kid in that video did NOTHING, people!!! He just stood there, probably wishing he were somewhere else, and the internet and media condemned him to death like some kind of lynch mob. THIS is why I am not only frightened, but terrified of giving any tiny indication of my beliefs in public. I may be the next victim of the lynch mob, be it online or in person.
I am Catholic. I am conservative. Am I next?
I hope everyone who participated in this travesty of online 'justice' and atrocity of a lynch mob takes a good look at themselves in the mirror... If they can...
I know better. Nothing ever changes in the vale of tears...
The fucking scariest part to me is that liberals don't have a chance if it comes to a civil war. You don't have the will or the weapons to win this. The more belligerent you get the more you're going to push this country to Fascism. Especially if you continue to antagonize religion. There is nothing more dangerous than attacking religion. Society is changing. It may not be as quickly as you want, but it is! I've got an inside perspective on what you're railing against and you're not going to change these views with force. I think even most of your Democratic Party politicians realize this and that's why they talk tough but never deliver. Just give this some thought before you disregard what I'm saying. I'm not a far-right nut job by any means...
Not for nothing, but I don't need a gun to back down some MAGA chud if a confrontation occurs in real-life, nor do I believe most of them would have the balls to actually do what is plastered on the back of their pick-up trucks if push came to shove. They'll shoot helpless deer once every November and pretend to be men. 99% of them would piss their pants if every confronted with an actual life or death situation.
As for people not changing things by force......how much longer should black people have waited in 1964 to be able to use regular public drinking fountains?? Another 50 years until white southerners came to their senses?? How long should gay couples have waited to be able to get married. When another million of them had their partners die before they could do so so we could placate the sensibilities of religious people who refuse to mind their own business. Change never happens just because.
Agreed. But trying to change too much all at once will lead to chaos. MLK did not use violence, neither did Ghandi and they were the most effective liberals ever in history. People need to evolve their views not have them forced on them.
Edit: We're one, maybe two generations away from what you (@jjstraka, @semiticgod & @smeagolheart specifically here) want; without violence.
The irony in invoking MLK when counseling for patience is rich. Did you read the letter from a Birmingham jail? You are literally another moderate calling the calls for justice "unwisely and untimely". Progress and justice were never obtained by just waiting for it.
Besides, I think MLK would never had the impact with his non-violent protest that he did, if Malcolm X had not been there as well. Without trying to, it was basically a perfect version of good cop, bad cop. MLK to offer the hand of friendship and peace, with Malcolm X showing that it would end badly for the nation if that offer were to be too rudely declined.
Anyway, were are these claims about the extremism from the left even coming from? The left has never been more moderate, has never been tamer, than it is now. The difference is that now the right is already complaining whenever their bigotry is called out - without violence or legal consequence, and in most cases, without social consequences.
And I really doubt that we are two generations away from a better world, unless action is taken. Substantial progress has been made on some historical injustices, but at the same time we see the old conflict of the rich vs the old poor again becoming the new large issue of our time. As this happens, the rich will need new enemies of the people (i.e. minorities) to blame more than ever. All recent Democrat presidents have been too weak in adressing this - what is needed is a new "I welcome their hatred" FDR.
Normally I avoid this discussion like the plague, but I am just so outraged right now...
Kids being harassed and bullied by adults. That kid in that video did NOTHING, people!!! He just stood there, probably wishing he were somewhere else, and the internet and media condemned him to death like some kind of lynch mob. THIS is why I am not only frightened, but terrified of giving any tiny indication of my beliefs in public. I may be the next victim of the lynch mob, be it online or in person.
I am Catholic. I am conservative. Am I next?
I hope everyone who participated in this travesty of online 'justice' and atrocity of a lynch mob takes a good look at themselves in the mirror... If they can...
I know better. Nothing ever changes in the vale of tears...
Look at the smirk on the kids face. That is not terrorism. If he wanted to be somewhere else he should have moved his self away from where he was standing.
And sigh.
This is a type of excuse given all too often. The poor me victim complex.
"There's no one more oppressed than me! So I better oppress them!"
It's like people in higher class groups treat others like shit because they are afraid that if those in lower social classes gained power then they might get treated as badly as they've been treating the people in the lower classes.
Normally I avoid this discussion like the plague, but I am just so outraged right now...
Kids being harassed and bullied by adults. That kid in that video did NOTHING, people!!! He just stood there, probably wishing he were somewhere else, and the internet and media condemned him to death like some kind of lynch mob. THIS is why I am not only frightened, but terrified of giving any tiny indication of my beliefs in public. I may be the next victim of the lynch mob, be it online or in person.
I am Catholic. I am conservative. Am I next?
I hope everyone who participated in this travesty of online 'justice' and atrocity of a lynch mob takes a good look at themselves in the mirror... If they can...
I know better. Nothing ever changes in the vale of tears...
Look at the smirk on the kids face. That is not terrorism. If he wanted to be somewhere else he should have moved his self away from where he was standing.
And that makes it ok to invade his personal space and beat a drum inches away from his face?! I think not.
As for all the "class" stuff: I do not think that way. To me, people are people, and it is wrong to treat ANY of them badly FOR ANY REASON!
Proves my point though... Nothing ever changes in the vale of tears.
Note to self: An uncomfortable smile is a crime against humanity. Be completely expressionless and devoid of all human emotion when people are bullying and harassing you or you are the guilty party.
The fucking scariest part to me is that liberals don't have a chance if it comes to a civil war. You don't have the will or the weapons to win this. The more belligerent you get the more you're going to push this country to Fascism. Especially if you continue to antagonize religion. There is nothing more dangerous than attacking religion. Society is changing. It may not be as quickly as you want, but it is! I've got an inside perspective on what you're railing against and you're not going to change these views with force. I think even most of your Democratic Party politicians realize this and that's why they talk tough but never deliver. Just give this some thought before you disregard what I'm saying. I'm not a far-right nut job by any means...
Not for nothing, but I don't need a gun to back down some MAGA chud if a confrontation occurs in real-life, nor do I believe most of them would have the balls to actually do what is plastered on the back of their pick-up trucks if push came to shove. They'll shoot helpless deer once every November and pretend to be men. 99% of them would piss their pants if every confronted with an actual life or death situation.
As for people not changing things by force......how much longer should black people have waited in 1964 to be able to use regular public drinking fountains?? Another 50 years until white southerners came to their senses?? How long should gay couples have waited to be able to get married. When another million of them had their partners die before they could do so so we could placate the sensibilities of religious people who refuse to mind their own business. Change never happens just because.
Agreed. But trying to change too much all at once will lead to chaos. MLK did not use violence, neither did Ghandi and they were the most effective liberals ever in history. People need to evolve their views not have them forced on them.
Edit: We're one, maybe two generations away from what you (@jjstraka, @semiticgod & @smeagolheart specifically here) want; without violence.
I don't think there's any significant proposal from liberals in the US to achieve change through violence. However, I agree that there is an increasing desire to make the case for their views strongly - and that of course is what both King and Gandhi did as well. You may believe that there is some sort of irreversible historical trend towards liberal values, but I think most people probably think otherwise - and that if they want to see something they define as progress they need to work for it. Under Trump there has been a considerable step back from liberal values. Though the seeds of that are far older, the impact on people has come much more sharply into focus now and it does seem reasonable to me that people would not be willing to passively wait for a couple of generations to assess whether Trump will eventually be seen as just a historical blip. There are plenty of issues with major impacts now on people's lives (like status of Dreamers, pollution from industry or ability of minorities to serve in armed forces). I'll also mention my hobby horse of climate change - if everyone were prepared to just wait a couple of generations to see how that played out, I suspect it would result in a global disaster.
If you look at the history of women's suffrage you see the same sorts of issues being played out about how hard you should push for change. There's an ongoing historical argument about the relative impact in the UK of suffragists (aimed to get change through constitutional means) and suffragettes ("deeds, not words"). However, the fact the latter word is in common use and the former is not is I think indicative of that impact. Some of the suffragettes just wanted to force their arguments into the popular consciousness through doing newsworthy things (like chaining themselves to railings and marching), while others were prepared to commit violence - though almost all against property rather than people. A number of historians have concluded that this resorting to violence actually set back the cause of women's suffrage. The impact of the 1914-18 war makes it difficult to disentangle the effect of violence, but given that nearly all the violence occurred in the couple of years before the war, and that there had been a national campaign for suffrage for 40 years before that, I find it hard to see much evidence of a detrimental effect (the first women were given the vote in 1918).
By the way, I have now seen more of the full video. While the original portrayal was not completely accurate and omitted the Black Israelites, I think it is much closer to the truth than what was being peddled here. The mocking and the chopping Tomahawk gestures still occurred, and the MAGA teens are clearly relishing the confrontation.
Also worthwhile pointing out that a substantial part of the counterpush is coming from a PR firm hired by the parents, and that at least on Reddit there is a large amounts of bots pushing the new narrative.
Personally, I don't think it is worthwhile to blame the children too much, but I am not a fan of the school. An all-male private school bussing their students to a Pro-life rally in MAGA hats? And people claim that liberals are pushing their agendas in education...
Seems pretty clear people will only see what they want to see, regardless of what the truth is. As a result the truth gets lost in the black hole of rhetoric and vitriol. I think it has already crossed the event horizon on this one so I will take my leave and resume attempting to avoid the aggravation of watching the news...
I think even most of your Democratic Party politicians realize this and that's why they talk tough but never deliver.
I think that's because they're politicians
Actually, politicians rarely deliver on things they promise because if they take care of a problem, they no longer have that problem to rile up the base.
Or enough people have no problem with what they see as a problem that it isn't effective for them any more. Like gay marriage. Enough people think it isn't an outrage that it no longer gets brught up. Also, we've had homosexual marriage and the world hasn't burnt down or imploded, so even less people see it as a problem.
Donald Trump was not in any hurry to build the wall because once he built/builds it, he can't use the issue to rile up and motivate his base any more. Also, if it gets built and it doesn't help, he looks foolish and stupid (many people think he already looks foolish and stupid, but let's not go there), so he was in no hurry to build it.
Now, he's been called out by right wing pundits for not building the wall, the same ones who his base are also fanatically devoted to, and he's stuck. He has to get it done or look weak. And he's already being called out on looking weak by Ann Coulter, one of the people who got after him over the wall to begin with. When he suggested 3 years of DACA protection in exchange for building the wall, she commented, "We voted for Trump, but we got JEB", which prompted an angry retort that three years of protection isn't amnesty from Trump.
Now, he's really boxed in. He can't give up his wall, he can't even promise anything to the Democrats in exchange for the wall because of his own side calling him a traitor if he bends even the slightest. And because he already backed out on another deal, Democrats have no reason to trust him. And the longer the shutdown goes on, the more people blame Trump.
Seems pretty clear people will only see what they want to see, regardless of what the truth is. As a result the truth gets lost in the black hole of rhetoric and vitriol. I think it has already crossed the event horizon on this one so I will take my leave and resume attempting to avoid the aggravation of watching the news...
@Tresset most of our decisions are made based on our interpretations rather than absolute facts and I would agree that the way we interpret things is skewed by our preconceptions. However, that's one good reason for participating in a thread where your interpretations can be challenged. Reading what's been said here about the Covington students, there has been a shift in judgment by some posters as a result of seeing alternative perspectives on what happened. While I can appreciate that process might seem irritating and it may be annoying when others don't agree with you despite making your case, I'm not quite sure how we can expect to understand each other without engaging in dialogue.
The fucking scariest part to me is that liberals don't have a chance if it comes to a civil war. You don't have the will or the weapons to win this. The more belligerent you get the more you're going to push this country to Fascism. Especially if you continue to antagonize religion. There is nothing more dangerous than attacking religion. Society is changing. It may not be as quickly as you want, but it is! I've got an inside perspective on what you're railing against and you're not going to change these views with force. I think even most of your Democratic Party politicians realize this and that's why they talk tough but never deliver. Just give this some thought before you disregard what I'm saying. I'm not a far-right nut job by any means...
Not for nothing, but I don't need a gun to back down some MAGA chud if a confrontation occurs in real-life, nor do I believe most of them would have the balls to actually do what is plastered on the back of their pick-up trucks if push came to shove. They'll shoot helpless deer once every November and pretend to be men. 99% of them would piss their pants if every confronted with an actual life or death situation.
As for people not changing things by force......how much longer should black people have waited in 1964 to be able to use regular public drinking fountains?? Another 50 years until white southerners came to their senses?? How long should gay couples have waited to be able to get married. When another million of them had their partners die before they could do so so we could placate the sensibilities of religious people who refuse to mind their own business. Change never happens just because.
Agreed. But trying to change too much all at once will lead to chaos. MLK did not use violence, neither did Ghandi and they were the most effective liberals ever in history. People need to evolve their views not have them forced on them.
Edit: We're one, maybe two generations away from what you (@jjstraka, @semiticgod & @smeagolheart specifically here) want; without violence.
The irony in invoking MLK when counseling for patience is rich. Did you read the letter from a Birmingham jail? You are literally another moderate calling the calls for justice "unwisely and untimely". Progress and justice were never obtained by just waiting for it.
Besides, I think MLK would never had the impact with his non-violent protest that he did, if Malcolm X had not been there as well. Without trying to, it was basically a perfect version of good cop, bad cop. MLK to offer the hand of friendship and peace, with Malcolm X showing that it would end badly for the nation if that offer were to be too rudely declined.
Anyway, were are these claims about the extremism from the left even coming from? The left has never been more moderate, has never been tamer, than it is now. The difference is that now the right is already complaining whenever their bigotry is called out - without violence or legal consequence, and in most cases, without social consequences.
And I really doubt that we are two generations away from a better world, unless action is taken. Substantial progress has been made on some historical injustices, but at the same time we see the old conflict of the rich vs the old poor again becoming the new large issue of our time. As this happens, the rich will need new enemies of the people (i.e. minorities) to blame more than ever. All recent Democrat presidents have been too weak in adressing this - what is needed is a new "I welcome their hatred" FDR.
The PR firm hired by the mother not only has ties to the GOP, but seems to have DIRECT ties to a CNN contributor. Funny how that was never disclosed.
Moreover, notice how the inclination in the media is to immediately try to find a reason to excuse the behavior of these boys, but when black youth are literally KILLED by cops or vigilantes, their default mode is to go looking for the "he was no angel" smoking gun to justify their murder. How many news stories in the aftermath of Trayvon Martin's killing did we hear about him smoking marijuana?? How many times did you hear, "well, Tamir Rice shoud have known better than to play with a toy gun." The instinct by the media is to posthumously CRIMINALIZE black youth who have been executed, and in this case to find any reasonable justification just to innoculate this group from social criticism. Wanna know why George Zimmerman got off?? The media. In the subsequent years, he was proven to be the exact psychopath he was from the start, before the PR push. I have 3-1 odds we get video within a week of kids from this school harassing women outside an abortion clinic.
@Grond0 I suppose you are right. I just have little stomach for controversy I guess...
It is rather disturbing, though, that the kid, a minor did nothing but stand there while he was obviously being harassed by the 'adult' with the drum and, for some reason, he was the one that was found to be 100% at blame for the mess by the internet lynch mob. So what if he had a goofy look on his face?! He was a 15 year old kid! I, as an adult wouldn't have a clue what to do if some nut with a drum were in my face!! What the heck are you supposed to do to appear innocent in such a situation, aside from what that kid did? He said nothing. He did nothing. Just an uncomfortable smile... I swear, it seems like some people WANT him to be the guilty party SO badly they would have found him guilty no matter what he did!
It is rather disturbing, though, that the kid, a minor did nothing but stand there while he was obviously being harassed by the 'adult' with the drum and, for some reason, he was the one that was found to be 100% at blame for the mess by the internet lynch mob. So what if he had a goofy look on his face?! He was a 15 year old kid! I, as an adult wouldn't have a clue what to do if some nut with a drum were in my face!! What the heck are you supposed to do to appear innocent in such a situation, aside from what that kid did? He said nothing. He did nothing. Just an uncomfortable smile... I swear, it seems like some people WANT him to be the guilty party SO badly they would have found him guilty no matter what he did!
You are saying that people shouldn't jump to conclusions that the kid is 100% to blame, which seems reasonable.
But if you look at the parts of your posts bolded by me, wouldn't you say that you are working under an 100% assumption that he is not to blame? I mean, you refer to the Elder as a "nut with a drum". Where is the difference?
As for interpreting emotions, that is certainly subjective, but to me the smile is not uncomfortable at all (and I meet a lot of uncomfortable teenagers).
It is rather disturbing, though, that the kid, a minor did nothing but stand there while he was obviously being harassed by the 'adult' with the drum and, for some reason, he was the one that was found to be 100% at blame for the mess by the internet lynch mob. So what if he had a goofy look on his face?! He was a 15 year old kid! I, as an adult wouldn't have a clue what to do if some nut with a drum were in my face!! What the heck are you supposed to do to appear innocent in such a situation, aside from what that kid did? He said nothing. He did nothing. Just an uncomfortable smile... I swear, it seems like some people WANT him to be the guilty party SO badly they would have found him guilty no matter what he did!
You are saying that people shouldn't jump to conclusions that the kid is 100% to blame, which seems reasonable.
But if you look at the parts of your posts bolded by me, wouldn't you say that you are working under an 100% assumption that he is not to blame? I mean, you refer to the Elder as a "nut with a drum". Where is the difference?
As for interpreting emotions, that is certainly subjective, but to me the smile is not uncomfortable at all (and I meet a lot of uncomfortable teenagers).
Perhaps, but banging a drum inches from someone's face, let alone a kid's face, makes you a bit nutty in my book, to say the least.
Can someone explain how seeking to ban certain people from military service based on their identity is not "identity politics"?? Wouldn't this be the ULTIMATE example of this much derided phrase??
I, as an adult wouldn't have a clue what to do if some nut with a drum were in my face!!
It's simple. One of you moves. Usually when people are performing you give them space even if you don't like it. Maybe it's not your type of thing but you don't impede the performance.
But I don't know maybe he did like it with that smirk on his face. Either way, you move. You don't block the path they are trying to go to. It's called common courtesy.
The basketball stuff may just be a bad look from that photograph, with everyone in the school dressing up in black (and even all black body paint) to create a certain look of intimidation in the crowd. But the kid next to the guy taking the ball out of bounds DOES look disturbingly like a minstrel caricature. That being said, I also saw people claiming a sign some of the basketball players were flashing was the white power sign, and it WAS NOT. It was the universal sign for a 3-pointer being made in basketball. In my opinion, the basketball photos are stretching it in both cases, except for the face make-up on the one kid does seem to be very deliberately "sambo"-like. But there is no way to say for sure considering everyone else in the crowd seems to be wearing black on purpose. I think the basketball photos in both instances are stretching it. But then I read that article and it says the black players on the other team were harassed. I don't doubt that, we have had stories like that all over the country since Trump was elected, and even before that. But knowing something as I do about high school basketball crowds, I'm going to need more than that one photo to get on board with it. I don't doubt it at all, but we need more to go on in that case. My guess is the school has a serious problem with racial incidents like this. But that photo doesn't really prove that.
It's not that different from those who don't see the mocking in the kid's actions. I feel to not see it is willfully ignoring the near complete destruction and cultural appropriation of Native American culture in this country, and the people clinging to the basketball stuff haven't been to many big-time high school basketball games.
I, as an adult wouldn't have a clue what to do if some nut with a drum were in my face!!
It's simple. One of you moves. Usually when people are performing you give them space even if you don't like it. Maybe it's not your type of thing but you don't impede the performance.
But I don't know maybe he did like it with that smirk on his face. Either way, you move. You don't block the path they are trying to go to. It's called common courtesy.
Uh-huh. I somehow don't think that was the problem... Maybe the "performance" shouldn't be in the way of a bus stop... Maybe the "performance" should move out of the way itself and not invade the personal space of a minor or try to plow through a crowd waiting for a bus.
And suppose the kid moved and the "performance" followed the poor kid after he moved. What then, hmm?
Seriously. Common courtesy is all well and good, but if some "performance" was beating a drum mere inches from my face, I would definitely say the "performance" was the one without the common courtesy. As far as I know, the kid was standing on a public sidewalk. He was well within his rights not to be pushed out of his way by a drum in his face.
Note to self: It is perfectly alright if people try to force you off of a public bus stop with bullying and harassment, so long as they are part of a "performance". If you don't move when someone beats a drum in your face in you are the one being rude.
At the point where the guy follows the kid, you have a point. The thing is, though, that didn't happen. The kid didn't move. So we'll mever know what might have happened. To speculate on it is pointless, since it didn't happen.
L mean, what if the incident had never happened? WHat about then? We'll never know, because what happened, happened. To pull hypotheticals at this point is ridiculous. What happened, happened.
So you are saying it is ok to aggressively disrupt pedestrian traffic that is well within its legal rights to be standing where it is? Just because you happen to be doing a performance? Maybe I should carry a harmonica with me and play it when I want to cut in line...
If this guy had a legal leg to stand on, or if he were there first, I wouldn't blame him in the least. But the thing is, if you are going to do a performance in public space and you want the public to not be in your way, you have to clear it with the local authorities first. Police would come and clear the area and you wouldn't have any problems at all. If you don't do that, your right to the communal space is no greater than anyone else's. I do not understand how this guy is anything but obnoxious for trying to plow through the crowd of kids.
Even putting all that aside, suppose the kids were wrong to be standing where they were. Beating a drum in peoples' faces and thereby invading their personal space is not the correct course of action. You call the authorities, the police, and have them clear the crowd for you. Being in the way is one thing, but beating a drum in someone's face is one step away from assault, if it isn't already assault. Assault is a far more serious crime than loitering or disturbing the peace or even disorderly conduct. I still don't see this guy as being right.
Common courtesy is all well and good, but if some "performance" was beating a drum mere inches from my face, I would definitely say the "performance" was the one without the common courtesy. As far as I know, the kid was standing on a public sidewalk. He was well within his rights not to be pushed out of his way by a drum in his face.
Note to self: It is perfectly alright if people try to force you off of a public bus stop with bullying and harassment, so long as they are part of a "performance". If you don't move when someone beats a drum in your face in you are the one being rude.
What bus stop are you talking about???
The way I heard it, the students were waiting for a bus to pick them up. Perhaps it was not a bus stop, I don't know. It was, however, a public space.
Start there. This is one of America’s favourite pastimes and you have a stadium filled with adults doing the exact same thing. Loudest World Recond even. A celebration! but at the same time a mockery of an entirely different culture.
Is the action offensive? Yes. But sadly it is also engrained into American culture. I bet these handful of kids doing it don’t even know it was wrong.
It is so easy to single out a handful of kids and claim outrage at the behaviour but then turn a blind eye (and have continuously turned a blind eye) to all the other belligerent acts of racism that occur daily and people just shrug their shoulders at it. ~
The mother (and even the school perhaps) hiring a PR firm to help handle the situation is appropriate IMO. Remember, the family was receiving death threats about this incident.
I personally wouldn’t know how to respond if it was my kid in that video except maybe lock him away or move to Canada.
And it also not like PR firms were already being used to attack him and his classmates. PR firm is just a way a person who hasn’t committed a crime can “lawyer up”
Comments
Kids being harassed and bullied by adults. That kid in that video did NOTHING, people!!! He just stood there, probably wishing he were somewhere else, and the internet and media condemned him to death like some kind of lynch mob. THIS is why I am not only frightened, but terrified of giving any tiny indication of my beliefs in public. I may be the next victim of the lynch mob, be it online or in person.
I am Catholic. I am conservative. Am I next?
I hope everyone who participated in this travesty of online 'justice' and atrocity of a lynch mob takes a good look at themselves in the mirror... If they can...
I know better. Nothing ever changes in the vale of tears...
Besides, I think MLK would never had the impact with his non-violent protest that he did, if Malcolm X had not been there as well. Without trying to, it was basically a perfect version of good cop, bad cop. MLK to offer the hand of friendship and peace, with Malcolm X showing that it would end badly for the nation if that offer were to be too rudely declined.
Anyway, were are these claims about the extremism from the left even coming from? The left has never been more moderate, has never been tamer, than it is now. The difference is that now the right is already complaining whenever their bigotry is called out - without violence or legal consequence, and in most cases, without social consequences.
And I really doubt that we are two generations away from a better world, unless action is taken. Substantial progress has been made on some historical injustices, but at the same time we see the old conflict of the rich vs the old poor again becoming the new large issue of our time. As this happens, the rich will need new enemies of the people (i.e. minorities) to blame more than ever. All recent Democrat presidents have been too weak in adressing this - what is needed is a new "I welcome their hatred" FDR.
And sigh.
This is a type of excuse given all too often. The poor me victim complex.
"There's no one more oppressed than me! So I better oppress them!"
It's like people in higher class groups treat others like shit because they are afraid that if those in lower social classes gained power then they might get treated as badly as they've been treating the people in the lower classes.
As for all the "class" stuff: I do not think that way. To me, people are people, and it is wrong to treat ANY of them badly FOR ANY REASON!
Proves my point though... Nothing ever changes in the vale of tears.
Note to self: An uncomfortable smile is a crime against humanity. Be completely expressionless and devoid of all human emotion when people are bullying and harassing you or you are the guilty party.
If you look at the history of women's suffrage you see the same sorts of issues being played out about how hard you should push for change. There's an ongoing historical argument about the relative impact in the UK of suffragists (aimed to get change through constitutional means) and suffragettes ("deeds, not words"). However, the fact the latter word is in common use and the former is not is I think indicative of that impact. Some of the suffragettes just wanted to force their arguments into the popular consciousness through doing newsworthy things (like chaining themselves to railings and marching), while others were prepared to commit violence - though almost all against property rather than people. A number of historians have concluded that this resorting to violence actually set back the cause of women's suffrage. The impact of the 1914-18 war makes it difficult to disentangle the effect of violence, but given that nearly all the violence occurred in the couple of years before the war, and that there had been a national campaign for suffrage for 40 years before that, I find it hard to see much evidence of a detrimental effect (the first women were given the vote in 1918).
Also worthwhile pointing out that a substantial part of the counterpush is coming from a PR firm hired by the parents, and that at least on Reddit there is a large amounts of bots pushing the new narrative.
Personally, I don't think it is worthwhile to blame the children too much, but I am not a fan of the school. An all-male private school bussing their students to a Pro-life rally in MAGA hats? And people claim that liberals are pushing their agendas in education...
Without Workers, We Wouldn’t Have Democracy
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/01/capitalism-democracy-workers-movements-unions?fbclid=IwAR1Ypfujd1JR4uBJ8pccTOtleCL_62rrMIbPY9q5letZYqRCHR7pLQOS9vAPolice officers crawl under SUV to rescue kitten
https://www.arcamax.com/homeandleisure/pets/catsanddogs/s-2159920?ezine=40&r=QDrrltkQPCGOQzkPrLrNRAL6j3fYlP2AbrIhcF40rARDOjMxOTM1MjY4ODpKOjE4MTEwOTI6TDo0MDpSOjM3MzgzNTpTOjIxNTk5MjA6VjoxMjc&fbclid=IwAR1PyQFLbri_iDCtExmhL6FeIfpR44rABOXze1QC2bhuFvqIyDWWTjM-raICourt in NY Says you are allowed to have Nunchuks
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/nyregion/nunchuks-ban-overturned-new-york.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR1VD0ipqJApNNAkUhSFqCgi4cnpRHEECNV3yzavS6y4CTztVF4ZaG0cUFAMobilizing against the far right
https://socialistaction.org/2019/01/21/mobilizing-against-the-far-right/?fbclid=IwAR1G9Y_KOZEAAd4EFuDpkV4H7_6ggEAeS8cVeoYLXiBlE9jWU0WMrn9GutkOr enough people have no problem with what they see as a problem that it isn't effective for them any more. Like gay marriage. Enough people think it isn't an outrage that it no longer gets brught up. Also, we've had homosexual marriage and the world hasn't burnt down or imploded, so even less people see it as a problem.
Donald Trump was not in any hurry to build the wall because once he built/builds it, he can't use the issue to rile up and motivate his base any more. Also, if it gets built and it doesn't help, he looks foolish and stupid (many people think he already looks foolish and stupid, but let's not go there), so he was in no hurry to build it.
Now, he's been called out by right wing pundits for not building the wall, the same ones who his base are also fanatically devoted to, and he's stuck. He has to get it done or look weak. And he's already being called out on looking weak by Ann Coulter, one of the people who got after him over the wall to begin with. When he suggested 3 years of DACA protection in exchange for building the wall, she commented, "We voted for Trump, but we got JEB", which prompted an angry retort that three years of protection isn't amnesty from Trump.
Now, he's really boxed in. He can't give up his wall, he can't even promise anything to the Democrats in exchange for the wall because of his own side calling him a traitor if he bends even the slightest. And because he already backed out on another deal, Democrats have no reason to trust him. And the longer the shutdown goes on, the more people blame Trump.
Moreover, notice how the inclination in the media is to immediately try to find a reason to excuse the behavior of these boys, but when black youth are literally KILLED by cops or vigilantes, their default mode is to go looking for the "he was no angel" smoking gun to justify their murder. How many news stories in the aftermath of Trayvon Martin's killing did we hear about him smoking marijuana?? How many times did you hear, "well, Tamir Rice shoud have known better than to play with a toy gun." The instinct by the media is to posthumously CRIMINALIZE black youth who have been executed, and in this case to find any reasonable justification just to innoculate this group from social criticism. Wanna know why George Zimmerman got off?? The media. In the subsequent years, he was proven to be the exact psychopath he was from the start, before the PR push. I have 3-1 odds we get video within a week of kids from this school harassing women outside an abortion clinic.
It is rather disturbing, though, that the kid, a minor did nothing but stand there while he was obviously being harassed by the 'adult' with the drum and, for some reason, he was the one that was found to be 100% at blame for the mess by the internet lynch mob. So what if he had a goofy look on his face?! He was a 15 year old kid! I, as an adult wouldn't have a clue what to do if some nut with a drum were in my face!! What the heck are you supposed to do to appear innocent in such a situation, aside from what that kid did? He said nothing. He did nothing. Just an uncomfortable smile... I swear, it seems like some people WANT him to be the guilty party SO badly they would have found him guilty no matter what he did!
But if you look at the parts of your posts bolded by me, wouldn't you say that you are working under an 100% assumption that he is not to blame? I mean, you refer to the Elder as a "nut with a drum". Where is the difference?
As for interpreting emotions, that is certainly subjective, but to me the smile is not uncomfortable at all (and I meet a lot of uncomfortable teenagers).
Speaking of MLK...
And...
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Doesn't Want to Talk About Impeachment. Other Democrats Do
http://time.com/5494329/house-speaker-nancy-pelosi-trump-impeachment/?fbclid=IwAR0sWFbXHU3MQyWRwSSYBjRsKICxV0KwmKlQ9tqfNPeTH96z5bJK0k5A3jIU.S. top court lets Trump transgender troop restrictions take effect
https://news.yahoo.com/u-top-court-lets-trump-143204077.html?.tsrc=notification-brknewsActually, the justices refused the administration's request for them to decide the merits of the legal fight even before a California-based federal appeals court already considering the matter is given a chance to rule.
'MAGA hat boys' reportedly filmed harassing girls before stand-off with Native American man
https://www.indy100.com/article/maga-hat-boys-covington-catholic-harassing-women-washington-nathan-phillips-twitter-video-8739981?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2YVf6-rKIvj9JQ9YuzQ6t5crCVV0tFR3zGtFpbQkjiRynaCJIdFebtcPY#Echobox=1548162651Along with the story that some of these kids have been filmed in blackface at multiple sports rallies. Just 'boys being boys', right?
Covington Catholic High School students ‘wore blackface’ to basketball pep rallies
https://www.indy100.com/article/convington-catholic-high-school-blackface-students-pep-rally-basketball-8740116But I don't know maybe he did like it with that smirk on his face. Either way, you move. You don't block the path they are trying to go to. It's called common courtesy.
The basketball stuff may just be a bad look from that photograph, with everyone in the school dressing up in black (and even all black body paint) to create a certain look of intimidation in the crowd. But the kid next to the guy taking the ball out of bounds DOES look disturbingly like a minstrel caricature. That being said, I also saw people claiming a sign some of the basketball players were flashing was the white power sign, and it WAS NOT. It was the universal sign for a 3-pointer being made in basketball. In my opinion, the basketball photos are stretching it in both cases, except for the face make-up on the one kid does seem to be very deliberately "sambo"-like. But there is no way to say for sure considering everyone else in the crowd seems to be wearing black on purpose. I think the basketball photos in both instances are stretching it. But then I read that article and it says the black players on the other team were harassed. I don't doubt that, we have had stories like that all over the country since Trump was elected, and even before that. But knowing something as I do about high school basketball crowds, I'm going to need more than that one photo to get on board with it. I don't doubt it at all, but we need more to go on in that case. My guess is the school has a serious problem with racial incidents like this. But that photo doesn't really prove that.
It's not that different from those who don't see the mocking in the kid's actions. I feel to not see it is willfully ignoring the near complete destruction and cultural appropriation of Native American culture in this country, and the people clinging to the basketball stuff haven't been to many big-time high school basketball games.
And suppose the kid moved and the "performance" followed the poor kid after he moved. What then, hmm?
Seriously. Common courtesy is all well and good, but if some "performance" was beating a drum mere inches from my face, I would definitely say the "performance" was the one without the common courtesy. As far as I know, the kid was standing on a public sidewalk. He was well within his rights not to be pushed out of his way by a drum in his face.
Note to self: It is perfectly alright if people try to force you off of a public bus stop with bullying and harassment, so long as they are part of a "performance". If you don't move when someone beats a drum in your face in you are the one being rude.
L mean, what if the incident had never happened? WHat about then? We'll never know, because what happened, happened. To pull hypotheticals at this point is ridiculous. What happened, happened.
If this guy had a legal leg to stand on, or if he were there first, I wouldn't blame him in the least. But the thing is, if you are going to do a performance in public space and you want the public to not be in your way, you have to clear it with the local authorities first. Police would come and clear the area and you wouldn't have any problems at all. If you don't do that, your right to the communal space is no greater than anyone else's. I do not understand how this guy is anything but obnoxious for trying to plow through the crowd of kids.
Even putting all that aside, suppose the kids were wrong to be standing where they were. Beating a drum in peoples' faces and thereby invading their personal space is not the correct course of action. You call the authorities, the police, and have them clear the crowd for you. Being in the way is one thing, but beating a drum in someone's face is one step away from assault, if it isn't already assault. Assault is a far more serious crime than loitering or disturbing the peace or even disorderly conduct. I still don't see this guy as being right.
Start there. This is one of America’s favourite pastimes and you have a stadium filled with adults doing the exact same thing. Loudest World Recond even. A celebration! but at the same time a mockery of an entirely different culture.
Is the action offensive? Yes. But sadly it is also engrained into American culture. I bet these handful of kids doing it don’t even know it was wrong.
It is so easy to single out a handful of kids and claim outrage at the behaviour but then turn a blind eye (and have continuously turned a blind eye) to all the other belligerent acts of racism that occur daily and people just shrug their shoulders at it.
~
The mother (and even the school perhaps) hiring a PR firm to help handle the situation is appropriate IMO. Remember, the family was receiving death threats about this incident.
I personally wouldn’t know how to respond if it was my kid in that video except maybe lock him away or move to Canada.
And it also not like PR firms were already being used to attack him and his classmates. PR firm is just a way a person who hasn’t committed a crime can “lawyer up”