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  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    Grond0 wrote: »
    @BallpointMan I would say it's very unusual in national UK politics (a bit less so in local government). Individuals changing party (including to independent) happens every now and then, but for a group (even a small group) to do so is very rare. I can't remember that happening since the SDP split from Labour in the early 1980s.

    How damaging is this to Labour's chances to form a government in the future? I assume it significantly reduces the likelihood of getting a majority in Parliament - are the expectations that these independents would not be likely to help Labour form a government in the future?

    I guess I'm trying to understand the ramifications for Labour moving forward

    It's fairly damaging, as it makes it easy for opponents to portray Labour as a radical left wing party. I wouldn't agree with that at the moment, but they've certainly moved a long way in that direction under Corbyn compared to the New Labour position under Blair & Brown. Incidentally, I see this morning that Derek Hatton is apparently going to have his application to rejoin the party accepted. He was at the center of the Militant Tendency hard left group in the 1980s and expelled from the party in 1986. Both the fact he wants to rejoin and that Labour accept him (and that's not official at the moment) would be propaganda gifts for opponents.

    I think it's clear there would be no natural majority for a left wing Labour, but that doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't get elected. The electoral 'first past the post' system means that a party can get elected with a relatively small share of the vote if votes are split between different parties. Thus, for instance, if Farage's new Brexit party took a lot of votes that would otherwise have gone to the Conservatives, Labour could be winning plenty of seats with voting shares of 35-40%.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    All of this bullshit is making me sorry about being conservative. Seriously, I am not anti-democracy. I honestly believe conservative values are a check on liberalism. Liberalism can't be stopped, but it needs to be slowed in order to allow for people to adjust. Trump is trampling on separation of powers, and as a Libertarian Conservative, I can't turn a blind-eye on this crap. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't in any way make me a liberal, but if the dems put someone forward who's more to the center, they'll have my vote if it's Trump they're running against. Beto O'Rourke looks ok to me as a Democrat and Kasich is somebody I could vote for on the Republican side. I voted for John Dingell in every election except his last. I didn't vote for him the last time he ran mostly because he was all in for Obamacare and I was skeptical. I also voted for Granholm both times I could because the Republicans who ran against her were jackasses. It's weird that I'm probably seen as one of the more rightwing posters in this thread...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    I'll add that there are some things about Trump that I really like that aren't being talked about in the U.S. media, mainly the trade war with China. You won't read this in CNN or any US media outlet but I work for a German company and the Germans are starting to admit that the China they thought they were dealing with isn't the China they're seeing in reality. China is a totalitarian regime and you deal with them at your own risk. I saw this in my corporate news-feed yesterday...
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    Grond0 wrote: »
    One interesting point I did note is specific support for strengthening "multilateral, international rules-based order" as a way of addressing challenges of globalisation, migration and technological advances.

    This isn't related to the general point of your post but it was interesting enough to be worth addressing. I think this is ideal in theory, but so far it hasn't worked on the ground. The problem with international rules currently is that the places where they most need to be applied are the places where they are enforced the least. International rules don't do much if anything to stop massive i.p theft or human rights abuses, and there is little to no current effective mechanism to enforce them on sufficiently powerful, volatile, or influential nations. Then there remains the question of how much enforcement mechanisms do more harm than good such as when sanctions on North Korea led to food shortages that starved off large portions of the population.

    It's a complicated situation that I think only will be smoothed out, in part, over time.

    I don't agree that international rules could do nothing about IP theft. I've posted before a couple of times about how action taken through the WTO has affected Chinese attitudes to IP and there's a lot more that could be done through that route (the US is not currently pursuing it at all).

    As for human rights I don't include that in my list of things that need to be internationally regulated. In themselves human rights abuses don't impact on international relations (though in some cases there may be consequential impacts, such as migration pressures). While in principle I would support human rights, I don't see international mechanisms at the moment as being ways of intervening in internal affairs of individual countries to any significant degree (I would be open to rare potential exceptions - like Rwanda).

    When it comes to enforcement measures I agree that tools like sanctions tend to be very blunt, but then that's largely a result of a failure of existing international mechanisms. The reason that sanctions have been relatively ineffective in North Korea is that China has not supported them - and at least part of the reason for that is that international mechanisms have not fully incorporated China to give them a stake in the system.

    I dare say you will consider me utopian for thinking that many individual countries can agree together on the best way forward, but as I said before there are many aspects of life today that have implications beyond national borders. If we don't agree over how to handle those then we'll disagree - and I think that would be worse.

    To take an example, I previously mentioned security as one of the issues with international implications. That's multi-faceted, with terrorism having been a particular concern in recent years. However, I'd like to touch on a different issue - missile control. As part of ending the Cold War, the US and USSR agreed considerable limitations on missile systems. That was a great bilateral achievement, but it was never built on to recognize that the issue doesn't only affect 2 countries. That achievement is currently in the process of breaking down entirely, with both the US and USSR involved in new programs of missile development. The reason for that is largely not to do with the actions of those two countries, but those of China who have been quietly developing their own programs for years (and there are of course concerns about other countries as well - North Korea again spring to mind).

    As I said the bilateral treaty between the US and USSR was a great achievement, but ultimately agreements between individual countries are not enough in today's world. Even if you said the only countries of concern in relation to missiles were China, US and USSR (and I certainly wouldn't say that) the chances of getting successful bilateral agreements between China-US, US-Russia and Russia-China are a small fraction of the chance of success between just 2 countries (much less than 1/3 as any differences in one of the proposed bilateral agreements will put a lot of stress on the others).

    So, I think the reality is that you can:
    - try to ignore international problems (such as climate change), which won't work if they really are problems.
    - try to dictate your own views to the world (such as Iran), which increases tensions rather than reducing them.
    - try to solve problems through bilateral agreements (such as North Korea), which won't work where there are other major players - as there will be in every case.
    Ultimately you're left though with the need for a multilateral agreement if you really want to solve issues that don't recognize national borders.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    edited February 2019
    So, In TumpistanNews, Someone took a picture of Trump on line at the Omelette Bar in Mar-a-Lago, sans orange make-up and wig, and dang, is he pale! The woman, Catherine, also called out the Carpet in Mar-A-Lago s "looking like it was ripped out of a $29.99 a night Travelodge".

    Trump is feeling so "special Snowflaky" that he Tweeted that programs that make fun of him should be investigated. Trump tweeted. “Question is, how do the Networks get away with these total Republican hit jobs without retribution? Likewise for many other shows? Very unfair and should be looked into. This is the real Collusion!”

    Lest there be any doubt about the implications, Trump tweeted in December 2018, “A REAL scandal is the one sided coverage, hour by hour, of networks like NBC & Democrat spin machines like Saturday Night Live,” declaring, “It is all nothing less than unfair news coverage and Dem commercials. Should be tested in courts, can’t be legal? Only defame & belittle! Collusion?”

    Texas Border Sherriffs came out saying that they don't want Trump's wall and don't think it would do any good. Also, that there is no crisis. (Source: Texas Observer) Lindsay Graham, meanwhile, came out on the side of the wall. During an interview on Face the Nation, host Margaret Brennan explained that $3.6 billion of the funds for President Donald Trump’s emergency declaration to build a border wall could come from military funds “including construction of a middle school in Kentucky.”

    Graham, however, told Brennan that the children of Kentucky need a border wall more than they need new schools.

    “The president will have to make a decision on where he gets the money,” Graham agreed. “Let’s just say for a minute that he took some money out of the military construction budget. I would say it’s better for the middle school kids in Kentucky to have a secure border,” he continued. “We’ll get them the school they need, but right now, we’ve got a national emergency on our hands.”

    Former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe said in an interview that aired Sunday that a "crime may have been committed" when President Donald Trump fired the head of the FBI and tried to publicly undermine an investigation into his campaign's ties to Russia. (Source: Yahoo News)

    Goodloe Sutton, the publisher of the Democrat-Reporter newspaper in Linden, Alabama, confirmed to the larger Montgomery Advertiser newspaper Monday that he authored a controversial Feb. 14 editorial calling for the return of the notorious white supremacist hate group.

    “If we could get the Klan to go up there and clean out D.C., we’d all been better off,” Sutton told the Advertiser’s Melissa Brown.

    Asked to clarify what he meant by “cleaning up D.C.,” Sutton suggested lynching. “We’ll get the hemp ropes out, loop them over a tall limb and hang all of them,” Sutton said. In the Feb 14th editorial, the publisher of the smaller newspaper (which is not online and only exists in print edition) said that it was “time for the Ku Klux Klan to night ride again.” :(

    Russia chose Donald Trump as the U.S. presidential candidate who would be most advantageous to Moscow, and used online tactics to win him the presidency, according to a former agent of the Israeli intelligence agency the Mossad.

    "Officials in Moscow looked at the 2016 U.S. presidential race and asked, ‘Which candidate would we like to have sitting in the White House? Who will help us achieve our goals?’ And they chose him. From that moment, they deployed a system [of bots] for the length of the elections, and ran him for president,” former Mossad chief Tamir Pardo told the audience at the Marker’s digital conference in Israel on Monday, where experts gathered to discuss online disinformation campaigns and bots.

    Darren Samuelsohn reports, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York has been running aggressive investigations into Trump’s inauguration committee and into his longtime personal attorney Michael Cohen, and the president appears to have no way to shut down their probe.

    “Manhattan-based federal prosecutors can challenge Trump in ways Mueller can’t,” Samuelsohn writes. “They have jurisdiction over the president’s political operation and businesses — subjects that aren’t protected by executive privilege, a tool Trump is considering invoking to block portions of Mueller’s report.” Samuelsohn also claims that “legal circles are… buzzing over whether SDNY might buck DOJ guidance and seek to indict a sitting president,” which is something that most legal experts do not expect Mueller to do even if he reports hard evidence of criminal wrongdoing. What has to be even more worrying for the president, Samuelsohn argues, is that the SDNY’s investigations will likely last well past Mueller’s probe, which could badly damage Trump’s 2020 reelection bid. :)

    Meanwhile Pence is apparently shook and worried over meetings in Poland and Germany, where nobody clapped at his applause lines. Speaking to the Munich Security Conference in Germany, Pence told the audience he brought greetings from Trump.

    Not a single person clapped.

    Pence was also embarrassed while speaking to the Peace and Security in the Middle East conference in Warsaw, Poland. Pence’s speech had an expected applause line, but it followed the Vice President demanding that the other countries follow the United States and withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal.

    The crowd, who had assembled to discuss bringing peace to the Middle East, refused to clap.

    The measles outbreak in Vancouver was caused by a man who did not allow his three sons to be vaccinated for Measles, and also didn't get vaccinated before a trip to Southeast Asia.

    A Sixth Grader in Florida was arrested because he refused to salute the flag and say the Pledge of Allegiance. The school claimed that he was arrested for "causing a disturbance". The Lakeland Police Department said in a statement that the boy was not arrested for refusing to recite the Pledge Allegiance, but for "the student's choice to disrupt the classroom, make threats and resisting the officer's efforts to leave the classroom." (Source: NBCDFW.com)

    Over and over again, we hear horrific stories from the Southern Border where innocent children have been separated from their parents by the Trump administration. It’s not often though that you get to put a face to a name. In this case you can. His name is Byron, and he is a 9-year-old Guatemalan boy who has been separated from his parents in jail-like detention camps for over 9 months now. An American family, named the Sewells, has been trying to take temporary custody of Byron but they’ve been met with nothing but roadblocks along the way.

    David, 27 years-old, decided to take his son Byron, 8-years-old at the time, and flee to America after a gang, called the Mara-18, had violently assaulted him and threatened Byron after he refused to give up his religion and join the gang himself. Upon his refusal, David, the son of a pastor, was taken from his car one day on his way to work. He was tied up, hit over the head and then stabbed and cut multiple times with a knife. He was told that Byron would be next. After this occurred, David decided to take Byron and make the 1600 mile trek to the American border, figuring that America, which is a country made up of Christian values, would help protect him and his son. He was wrong.

    David was told he could either sign a paper and be deported with his son, of refuse to sign and never see his son again. Even though he eventually sign, he was sent back to Guatemala alone. His son was kept in the US. Now, there is a famlily, The Sewells, who want to take care of Byron, but because they aren't one of his blood relations, the US refuses to release Byron to him, even though the US is paying $740 to $1220 a day to take care of Byron. The Sewells are in touch with Byron's father, David, who is asserting his claim to Byron, but the courts are refusing to let thr transfer to go through. :P And Byron is just one of many kids.

    Did you know that taking someone's child away from them under immigaration is part of the U.N> definition of "Genocide"? It is!

    52051180_3063894143621543_6095119700436451328_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=f6b179da23034291fc291559e188cec1&oe=5CE39C45

    A 45 year old immigrant died in Border Patrol custody, making the third immigrant who died in as many months. He died of cirrhosis of the liver and congestive heart failure.

    Oklahoma State Senator David Bullard is wading into dissembling waters with a new bill, SB 572, which encourages history teachers to “discuss the role of religion, including but not limited to Christianity and the Bible, while discussing the foundational documents and principles of the United States.” Bullard especially wants direct quotes from the founding fathers, including “Noah Webster, Joseph Story and John Adams.” Funny, I never heard of either Joseph Story and Noah Webster being founding fathers. Joseph Story was born 3 years after the US declared freedom from Britain, and 10 was years old when the Constitution was written but he did once write “I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society.” But that line comes from a private letter, in his public writings — the first definitive legal commentaries on the Constitution — Story explained that the U.S. Constitution “cut off for ever every pretence of any alliance between church and state in the national government.”

    A woman, Pamela Taylor, who called Michelle Obama "An Ape in Heels", has pleaded guilty to embezzling thousands of dollars in federal disaster relief. During her plea agreement hearing last Tuesday, Taylor agreed to pay restitution of $18,149.04. She is scheduled to be sentenced on May 30. She faces up to 30 years behind bars and a fine of up to $500,000.

    A Man, Sal Trejo, in Salt Lake City, Utah, was assaulted by a man making homophobic comments. He caught the whole thing on tape, andwants the Police to help him find the man. The man also pulled a knife on him, but left when he heard Sal Trejo's friends calling the Police. I hope they catch the man.
    Post edited by LadyRhian on
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I'll add that there are some things about Trump that I really like that aren't being talked about in the U.S. media, mainly the trade war with China. You won't read this in CNN or any US media outlet but I work for a German company and the Germans are starting to admit that the China they thought they were dealing with isn't the China they're seeing in reality. China is a totalitarian regime and you deal with them at your own risk. I saw this in my corporate news-feed yesterday...
    Oh yes, I have less than zero trust in Russo-Chinese relations that Putin is trying nurture. Even if he's doing that to mitigate the US' pressure, that's still a horrible prospect in the long term. China steals our timber at the borders, wants Baykal's water (I'd nuke them for the mere suggestion of such thing), refuses to invest in proposed projects, advises on censorship practices, keeps building a huge tank army (against India, over Himalayas? LOL) etc. I don't believe its government sees anything but as a useful tool for its own advancement.
    LadyRhian wrote: »
    Russia chose Donald Trump as the U.S. presidential candidate who would be most advantageous to Moscow, and used online tactics to win him the presidency, according to a former agent of the Israeli intelligence agency the Mossad.

    "Officials in Moscow looked at the 2016 U.S. presidential race and asked, ‘Which candidate would we like to have sitting in the White House? Who will help us achieve our goals?’ And they chose him. From that moment, they deployed a system [of bots] for the length of the elections, and ran him for president,” former Mossad chief Tamir Pardo told the audience at the Marker’s digital conference in Israel on Monday, where experts gathered to discuss online disinformation campaigns and bots.
    What really puzzles me is how US can blame Russia for allegedly intervening into presidential elections, when it has itself in recent history conducted military invasions of multiple countries on behalf of illegitimate insurgents. Like, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, and now poising to strike at Venezuela. Well, at least Venezuela I can understand, because its economy did plummet catastrophically and Guaido does hold some legitimate authority (though he could have first gone to UN for help, instead of proclaiming himself an acting president).
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    So Bernie is running again, what do you think on that? I like his politics, but I think he is just too old for the Presidency. Same for Biden.

    Even Warren is older than I would prefer, though she is a women and they are usually mentally fit a bit longer.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @a
    Ardanis wrote: »
    LadyRhian wrote: »
    Russia chose Donald Trump as the U.S. presidential candidate who would be most advantageous to Moscow, and used online tactics to win him the presidency, according to a former agent of the Israeli intelligence agency the Mossad.

    "Officials in Moscow looked at the 2016 U.S. presidential race and asked, ‘Which candidate would we like to have sitting in the White House? Who will help us achieve our goals?’ And they chose him. From that moment, they deployed a system [of bots] for the length of the elections, and ran him for president,” former Mossad chief Tamir Pardo told the audience at the Marker’s digital conference in Israel on Monday, where experts gathered to discuss online disinformation campaigns and bots.
    What really puzzles me is how US can blame Russia for allegedly intervening into presidential elections, when it has itself in recent history conducted military invasions of multiple countries on behalf of illegitimate insurgents. Like, Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, and now poising to strike at Venezuela. Well, at least Venezuela I can understand, because its economy did plummet catastrophically and Guaido does hold some legitimate authority (though he could have first gone to UN for help, instead of proclaiming himself an acting president).

    Because they have changed their tactics. Not just here, they did it in other countries as well. France for one. And Trump just undercut DHS (Department of Homeleand Security) by eliminating two taskforces working on the problem.

    Now, everyone is up in Arms. 16 states have sued Trump over the "Emergency"declaration, along with the ACLU. In Alaska, Republicans were pleased this year that they had a bare majority of seats in the Alaska State House... but they just lost it. You see, the leader of the house has to get a majority of the Republican seats behind him or her. And none of the candidates the party put forward made the cut. So finally, one of the Democrats changed himself to an "independent", and got 21 people to support him. So... yeah. Now it's a coalition of 15 Democrats, 2 Independents and 7 Republicans, all led by an Independent who used to be a Democrat. Brice Edgmon, 2 time former speaker of the House, is once again, Speaker of the House.

    I posted here almost a week ago about the "Drag Queen Story Time" being protested in Brentwood, CA. The last time it was held, 25 protesters showed up outside the Brentwood Community Center to protest. However, they were quite overwhelmed by the 500 people who showed up to see "Drag Queen Story Hour"! Previously, a Trump supporter, James "Doc" Green was arrested at the Library where he tried to break into the Drag Queen Story Hour. However, Green was already banned from the Library for surreptitiously filming children on previous visits. He also had a weapon in his pocket, which the police confiscated while arresting him. Sounds like a wonderful man, doesn't he?

    You may have heard that Trump was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Apparently, Trump's team asked/leaned on Shinzo Abe, Prime Minister of Japan, to nominate Trump for a Nobel Peace Prize. Seriously. I am side-eyeing this SO HARD.

    Trump is also reportedly extremely upset because he learned the reason why the FBI started an investigation into his ties to Russia. Why? you wonder- because of his own big fat mouth. When he said on Television, that he fired James Comey over "this Russia thing", the FBI thought he could have some ties with Russia. So he has no one to blame but himself...

    Republicans once again went after Alxandria Ocasio-Cortez, this time through her boyfriend. They noticed her BF has an email address ending in ".gov"and claimed that she had hired him for her staff. Truth is, he got that address so he can access her Google Calendar, just like the wives and husbands of other Congressmen and women can. Republicans once more end up with egg on their collective faces. AOC-at least 10 by now- Republicans- still zero.

    On CNN’s State of the Union yesterday morning, House Intelligence Chair Adam Schiff not only said that collusion is an open secret, he also implied that the heat won’t be off Trump even if Robert Mueller fails to produce a damning report. And he rebuffed Senate Intelligence Chair Richard Burr’s conclusion that the facts in the case point to no collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. “Chairman Burr must have a different word for it. You can see evidence in plain sight on the issue of collusion, pretty compelling evidence,” Schiff said, adding, “There is a difference between seeing evidence of collusion and being able to prove a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt.”

    Also, Mueller has subpoenaed the Cambridge Analytica director, which may be the beginning of the end for Trump. Remember that Steve Bannon was in charge of Cambridge Analytica.

    And if Trump isn't already enough of a laughingstock, Angela Merkel called him out for calling BMW Cars "A threat to National Security". Cars made in South Carolina, no less!
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    LadyRhian wrote: »
    Trump is feeling so "special Snowflaky" that he Tweeted that programs that make fun of him should be investigated. ...
    Lest there be any doubt about the implications, Trump tweeted in December 2018, “A REAL scandal is the one sided coverage, hour by hour, of networks like NBC & Democrat spin machines like Saturday Night Live,” declaring, “It is all nothing less than unfair news coverage and Dem commercials. Should be tested in courts, can’t be legal? Only defame & belittle! Collusion?”
    .

    Clarence Thomas, an Insane Republican activist occupying a Supreme Court seat, has taken the 'hint' (if you can call a lunatic raging on Twitter a hint.)

    He's said that the 1964 decision that raises the bar for libel of public figures was decided wrongly. He wants to protect Trump's feelings and also encourage our slide towards fascism where criticism of the dear leader is not allowed.

    Not sure why he isn't saying Trump should be allowed to be sued for his libelous Twitter feed where he slanders and defames everyone all the time. Oh right, because Thomas is a insane Republican conspiracy theorist politician in a robe.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/clarence-thomas-libel-first-amendment-new-york-times-sullivan-bill-cosby/index.html
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    I've often said that the decision to pull out of the Iran deal was a poor one. A number of different theories as to why this was done have been put forward, but none of them make sense to me. Here's a story suggesting another possible theory, i.e. that the aim is to add nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia to strengthen the nuclear grip of US allies in the Middle East. Of course that theory doesn't make sense to me either, but possibly it could to someone in the White House ...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    All of this bullshit is making me sorry about being conservative. Seriously, I am not anti-democracy. I honestly believe conservative values are a check on liberalism. Liberalism can't be stopped, but it needs to be slowed in order to allow for people to adjust. Trump is trampling on separation of powers, and as a Libertarian Conservative, I can't turn a blind-eye on this crap. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't in any way make me a liberal, but if the dems put someone forward who's more to the center, they'll have my vote if it's Trump they're running against. Beto O'Rourke looks ok to me as a Democrat and Kasich is somebody I could vote for on the Republican side. I voted for John Dingell in every election except his last. I didn't vote for him the last time he ran mostly because he was all in for Obamacare and I was skeptical. I also voted for Granholm both times I could because the Republicans who ran against her were jackasses. It's weird that I'm probably seen as one of the more rightwing posters in this thread...
    The United States is in dire need of people who pledge their loyalties to ideas and values rather than political parties. I've always said that it's more important to focus on issues rather than political identity, simply because it's so much easier to work with simplistic, reductive thinking when politics is a competition between the good guys and the bad guys. Tribalism doesn't just prevent us from seeing the good in our "enemies"; it prevents us from seeing the flaws in our own group, and when we pledge our fealty to a single political party even when it's wrong, we stop holding our representatives to high standards.

    Ideally, of course, we'd want people to be flexible on their values as well, but right now, the bigger problem is that a lot of folks aren't even voting based on their values; they're just voting for a certain party.

    This is one of the reasons I've long stressed the need to draw a distinction between Republican politicians and Republican citizens (same goes for Democrats, but that hasn't come up as often in this thread). For all the flaws I see in the former, and as much as I disagree with both, I know that Trump being a "bad guy" doesn't make other Republicans "the bad guys." We should judge politicians and civilians based on their own actions and words; not their political affiliation.

    To quote John McCain, I'd say @Balrog99 is a "decent family man, citizen, that just I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues."
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957
    LadyRhian wrote: »
    Trump is feeling so "special Snowflaky" that he Tweeted that programs that make fun of him should be investigated. ...
    Lest there be any doubt about the implications, Trump tweeted in December 2018, “A REAL scandal is the one sided coverage, hour by hour, of networks like NBC & Democrat spin machines like Saturday Night Live,” declaring, “It is all nothing less than unfair news coverage and Dem commercials. Should be tested in courts, can’t be legal? Only defame & belittle! Collusion?”
    .

    Clarence Thomas, an Insane Republican activist occupying a Supreme Court seat, has taken the 'hint' (if you can call a lunatic raging on Twitter a hint.)

    He's said that the 1964 decision that raises the bar for libel of public figures was decided wrongly. He wants to protect Trump's feelings and also encourage our slide towards fascism where criticism of the dear leader is not allowed.

    Not sure why he isn't saying Trump should be allowed to be sued for his libelous Twitter feed where he slanders and defames everyone all the time. Oh right, because Thomas is a insane Republican conspiracy theorist politician in a robe.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/clarence-thomas-libel-first-amendment-new-york-times-sullivan-bill-cosby/index.html

    He might say that, but there's not much he can do about it until a case involving libel gets to the SCOTUS. And that he could get 4 other Justices to agree with him.
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  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited February 2019
    He's only a few years older than Fox news grandpa Trump. He's right on the issues to me such as Medicare for all, action on climate change and other issues. I'd support someone else if they are right on the issues.

    It's not hard to beat Trump on the issues since he consistently chooses the absolute worst thing he could as well so whomever comes out of the Dem primary probably will have my support. It's hard to imagine anyone the Dems nominate being worse than Trump internationally, politically, racially, economically, etc
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Supposedly Bernie will be announcing soon. He'd get my vote.

    Dude he's like 93.

    I feel the bern, I luv the guy. But, he should not be president.

    I'm with @Balrog99, we need a goddam centrist in the oval office who can manage to steer the ship of state without tearing down its institutions.

    Obama was this person. In his temperment, and even in his most signature achievement. Again, the ACH was based on a plan that started in a right-wing think tank. It was a compromise from the START, and he was still treated like he was a mixture of some third-world African dictator and Lenin. So what was the point?? In the end, he was the first President to be denied the opportunity to fill a Supreme Court vacancy. Obama went above and beyond to reach across the aisle, and all it earned him was McConnell's shiv in his back as he started to deconstruct constitutional democracy.

    I didn't vote for Obama but I didn't think he was the Anti-Christ either. Ditto for Bill Clinton. I'd rather have either of them as president over what we have right now though...
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    I didn't vote for Obama but I didn't think he was the Anti-Christ either. Ditto for Bill Clinton. I'd rather have either of them as president over what we have right now though...

    In fairness to that point, McCain and Romney werent historically awful candidates (They both lurched to the right in the primary, but that's kind of what primaries to do in both parties).

    Dude he's like 93.

    I feel the bern, I luv the guy. But, he should not be president.

    I agree with this entirely.

  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2019
    A massive wrap-up, expose, and even more new revelations. This has to end. He isn't a President, he's a mob boss:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/politics/trump-investigations.html

    Let's say you are 100% skeptical of all of this, that in your heart you believe Trump is a great man doing doing great things who is being set-up. Even IF you believe that is the case, what is the more logical reason for the actions and tactics mentioned in this article?? That he is doing them because he is innocent, or because he is guilty?? Because if it was literally ANY other person in the world, we all know what the answer to that question is. The truest statement of all comes from the comment section:

    Innocent people simply do not engage in these activities. They do not attempt to conspire to obstruct justice or tamper with witnesses. They do not obsessively complain and/or threaten those associated with the investigation.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    A massive wrap-up, expose, and even more new revelations. This has to end. He isn't a President, he's a mob boss:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/19/us/politics/trump-investigations.html

    Let's say you are 100% skeptical of all of this, that in your heart you believe Trump is a great man doing doing great things who is being set-up. Even IF you believe that is the case, what is the more logical reason for the actions and tactics mentioned in this article?? That he is doing them because he is innocent, or because he is guilty?? Because if it was literally ANY other person in the world, we all know what the answer to that question is. The truest statement of all comes from the comment section:

    Innocent people simply do not engage in these activities. They do not attempt to conspire to obstruct justice or tamper with witnesses. They do not obsessively complain and/or threaten those associated with the investigation.

    I'm not skeptical of any of that and agree with your characterization of Trump. However, I didn't see anything in the article that I would expect to convince anyone to change their view of his character. There's a small amount of new detail about conversations Trump had with others, but I don't think that adds anything to the picture already available from his (very public) tweets.

    Trump is well known for attacking / retaliating against anyone who criticizes him - without having regard for due process (or indeed the truth). Therefore, whether he's innocent or guilty, I would absolutely expect him to attack and attempt to discredit anyone who is perceived as making such criticism. I don't thus see such behavior as generally likely to change people's minds about innocence or guilt.

    Where I think Trump is more vulnerable to people changing their minds is in defending actions that are potentially inconsistent with the political views of supporters. Things like paying out large sums of hush money, widespread use of NDAs, employment of illegals, amount of time spent not working, financially benefiting from his own trips, receiving considerable sums of money from foreign leaders support of his businesses etc.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Age is sometimes just a number. Bernie doesn't sound half as demented as the Don.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    FinneousPJ wrote: »
    Age is sometimes just a number. Bernie doesn't sound half as demented as the Don.

    We just need 4 years.

    Eight would be fine but four would be a much needed turn around. Americas reputation is in the gutter because of the current president's corruption, lying, fear mongering, and constant hating and insulting of others.

    Four years of Bernie will be a fantastic breath of fresh air. It will relieve the cloud of gloom and suspicion over our nation.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    A rather timely billboard has gone up in Chicago, showing a young man hiding his face in his hands, along with the words, "Value Children Over Dogma" and "It's time to LEAVE the CATHOLIC CHURCH". It can be found along the Kennedy Expressway (Interstate 90/94) west of Montrose in Chicago.

    In December, the Illinois attorney general announced that the Catholic Church had not yet identified more than 690 priests accused of sexual abuse. Catholic officials publicly referenced only 185 clergy with credible allegations against them. Attorney General Lisa Madigan issued a preliminary report critical of the lack of transparency and flawed investigations by six Catholic dioceses in Illinois.

    Shockwaves had been created a few months prior to this due to a grand jury report in Pennsylvania that documented in August more than 300 “predator priests” credibly accused of sexually abusing more than 1,000 children. In an apparent attempt at damage control, several dioceses since then have been self-reporting figures about predator priests.

    The Roman Catholic diocese of Brooklyn, one of the largest in the nation, revealed last weekend that more than 100 priests had been accused of sexually abusing a child.
    Also last weekend, Pope Francis defrocked Theodore McCarrick, a former cardinal and archbishop of Washington, D.C., after the Vatican said he’d been tried and found guilty of several crimes, including soliciting sex during confession and “sins” with minors and with adults.
    The Roman Catholic Church in Texas released names in late January of almost 300 priests it said had been credibly accused of child sex crimes over nearly eight decades.
    New Jersey’s five dioceses on Feb. 13 released the names of nearly 200 priests and deacons accused of sexually abusing children.
    On Jan. 28, the Vatican official who handles sexual abuse cases for the Catholic Church quit after being accused himself of sexual abuse.
    Last week, Pope Francis acknowledged that nuns have suffered sexual abuse by priests, and news articles have recently appeared about pedophile nuns.

    So many stories have come out about Predator Priests, it's hard to keep up with the stories.

    A Gay disabled man is running a Fundraiser to develop sex toys for disabled people, including the elderly. Yeah, you may have no problems now, but how about in the future?

    This is actually 1956 Republican Party platform:

    1. Provide federal assistance to low-income communities
    2. expand social security
    3. Provide asylum for refugees
    4. Strengthen labor laws so workers can more easily join a union
    5. Extend minimum wage

    WHAT HAPPENED?

    What do you get when you mix an army veteran, animal lover and tattooed huntress – one fierce animal protector that will stop poachers in their tracks.

    Kinessa Johnson served four years in the armed forces as a weapons instructor and mechanic before she used her extensive training to defend wildlife from poachers. Johnson took her experience and love for animals and headed to Africa, where she joined a team of other veterans at Veterans Empowered to Protect African Wildlife (VEPAW).

    I love Kinessa Johnson!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited February 2019
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    edited February 2019
    LadyRhian wrote: »
    The Roman Catholic diocese of Brooklyn, one of the largest in the nation, revealed last weekend that more than 100 priests had been accused of sexually abusing a child.
    Also last weekend, Pope Francis defrocked Theodore McCarrick, a former cardinal and archbishop of Washington, D.C., after the Vatican said he’d been tried and found guilty of several crimes, including soliciting sex during confession and “sins” with minors and with adults.
    The Roman Catholic Church in Texas released names in late January of almost 300 priests it said had been credibly accused of child sex crimes over nearly eight decades.
    New Jersey’s five dioceses on Feb. 13 released the names of nearly 200 priests and deacons accused of sexually abusing children.

    Many people have pointed out that those lists consist almost exclusively of clergy who are either dead or retired.
    LadyRhian wrote: »
    What do you get when you mix an army veteran, animal lover and tattooed huntress – one fierce animal protector that will stop poachers in their tracks.

    Kinessa Johnson served four years in the armed forces as a weapons instructor and mechanic before she used her extensive training to defend wildlife from poachers. Johnson took her experience and love for animals and headed to Africa, where she joined a team of other veterans at Veterans Empowered to Protect African Wildlife (VEPAW).

    I love Kinessa Johnson!

    I think you may be reading some old material. Her team was kicked out of Tanzania in 2015. At best, it looks like the whole thing was just a publicity stunt to hype a proposed reality show. When I limited my search for stories to those within the past year, they got very vague. No dates or places anymore, just saying she's in "Africa". That kind of reporting sets my Snopes sense tingling.

    Also the stories from when they were in Tanzania are somewhat disturbing. Officially they were there to train game wardens, but they started posting to social media that they were going to "kill some bad guys" and posting pics of Johnson with various weaponry. I think it was all just hype, but the image of white mercenaries going to Africa to kill black people leaves a real bad taste in my mouth. There's some really nasty history around that sort of thing.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited February 2019
    The Native American thing with Elizabeth Warren is a ridiculous non-issue. I fail to understand why being 1/64 Native American instead of 1/32 is such a scandal.

    I used to think I had Irish ancestry, and my parents' DNA tests showed otherwise. Does that make me a bad person?

    I don't see Bernie's age as disqualifying. I don't vote based on a candidate's age any more than I vote based on their race or sex. If a candidate's mind is deteriorating from age or something, then that's a disqualifying factor, but the problem would be their mind; not their age. I have seen absolutely no indication that Bernie's age has ever inhibited his ability to do his job. The people who keep electing him don't seem to view it as a problem.

    I think Kamala Harris is a good choice. She's very hard-nosed and precise.
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,669
    semiticgod wrote: »
    The Native American thing with Elizabeth Warren is a ridiculous non-issue. I fail to understand why being 1/64 Native American instead of 1/32 is such a scandal.

    Because she used it to further her own position in life at the expense of those it is supposed to help and she ran with the idea that having a fraction of a fraction of maybe a native american bloodline makes you native american. Many Native Americans don't appreciate that. I don't see how this is in any way justifiable.

    Bernie seems to have raised twice as much so far than the runner up, Kamala. I don't think his base are going anywhere. And why should they? It is very easy for all the other candidates to parrot everything he says like they love to do. When it comes down to implementing it, he's the only one i'd trust to do it.
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