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The Politics Thread

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Comments

  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,015
    GOP gonna GOP. We aren't even debating this... I would say historic but it feels oddly familiar...handout to needless industries. But let's make sure we don't make people too comfortable for a brief period.

    BallpointMansmeagolheart
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    edited March 26
    Again, they don't even understand how the concept of unemployment works. Like, on a base, fundamental level. The unemployment office contacts your last job and ASKS them why you aren't working there anymore. If you quit, or even if you were fired for cause, you aren't getting shit.

    Moreover, Lindsey Graham is up there talking about how NURSES (who are basically soliders at this point) are going to quit their jobs to go home and collect unemployment checks. It's stark-raving mad lunacy. It's so disconnected from how real-life works and (especially) what is going on right now that it almost defies belief. We need a new system built from scratch, because COVID-19 is about to destroy the one we have now forever. This feels like the fall of an Empire. And if this is a hurricane, it hasn't even made landfall yet.

    ThacoBell
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,637
    edited March 26
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    deltago wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    It's not getting much attention compared to New York (where they are now discussing needing mobile morgues), but the shit is about to hit the fan in New Orleans as well. I can't recall being frightened by world events before. This frightens me.

    9/11 was terrifying. More terrifying than this IMO. You see this coming. After 9/11 you really didn’t know what was happening or going to happen. I at the time also worked downtown Ottawa (Canada’s capital) so there was that as well. Downtown shutdown quick then.

    I'm old enough to remember the original Gulf War. People were worried about WW3 then. Also the Y2K panic was pretty big too. Lots of the same BS with people panic buying staples. Generators were the toilet paper of Y2K...

    People erroneously believe Y2K was all hype because nothing happened. Nothing happened because of the tireless work by IT professionals.

    Regardless, I believe what we're facing dwarves everything else just mentioned.

    The gulf war was not a big deal compared to this. This is a global catastrophe. The gulf war could have been a bigger deal but as it was it was one superpower and allies attacking another nation. Not a global event.

    Y2k promised some heartaches and maybe some serious disruption but it was very apparent that the world didn't end immediately after Jan 1.

    To top it off the 'leadership' we have now is much worse.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    Jobless claims last week were 3.2 million. One bill isn't going to cut it.

    smeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,988
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Jobless claims last week were 3.2 million. One bill isn't going to cut it.

    Yeah, but they'll all be back on the job by Easter!

  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,988
    edited March 26
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    This is the guy who should be in charge right now. It's beyond obvious, but it didn't happen:

    Yep, I'm even pretty conservative but was willing to get behind him. Only Democrat I've ever voted for for president (even if it was only a primary). Instead we get senile Joe or a dipshit who makes me stupider every time I hear him speak...

    smeagolheart
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,988
    This guy is certainly to the right of center but there are some good insights in here. Take it with a grain of salt, but Trump's popularity is certainly not going down right now, and may even be going up. The Democrats really fumbled the ball on the relief bill. It's not about reality people, it's about perception.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/opinions/americans-like-trump-handling-crisis-opinion-jennings/index.html

    BallpointMan
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    edited March 26
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    This guy is certainly to the right of center but there are some good insights in here. Take it with a grain of salt, but Trump's popularity is certainly not going down right now, and may even be going up. The Democrats really fumbled the ball on the relief bill. It's not about reality people, it's about perception.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/opinions/americans-like-trump-handling-crisis-opinion-jennings/index.html

    George Bush's approval was 90% after 9/11. Let's wait on this until rural areas with their one ICU bed in 3 counties are overrun and see the reality of the situation rather than what they've been sold for the last month. This spell will never break for people until someone close to them is intubated or dies. And even then, half of them will find another scapegoat. But the mental gymnastics eventually will become too much to bear. What Trump said about this, his total downplaying of the threat, is what it is. And they know it, as they have sent a cease and desist order over a new ad that does nothing but play audio clips of the President's own words over a graph of spiking cases. "It's 15 cases, and in a few days it will be zero" can't be erased. They will try, it's working on the hardcore for now. Pretty soon some of them are going to be drowning in the fluid in their own lungs.

    They also frankly don't know what's going on. They were absolutely warned this was coming, and treated it as a political problem to be spun rather than a public health crisis. They are still fighting individual 24-hour news cycle wars. I can't even count the number of positions hardcore conservatives have had on this virus in the last 20 days. If you'll recall, I have had ONE, which is full 5-alarm fire.

    The fact is that Barack Obama left him with a recovering economy and an international pandemic response apparatus. And now we're here. Trump is also going to be the FOURTH Republican President in a row to have a recession on their watch. Except this one might be a depression and kill hundreds of thousands of people to boot.

    The economy was never what he sold it to be. It's been a paper tiger being propped up by outside manipulation. And the conservative belief in (famous quote from activist Grover Nordquist) "drowning government in a bathtub" is why nurses are wearing fucking Hefty Bags as protective gear.

    ThacoBell
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,034
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    This guy is certainly to the right of center but there are some good insights in here. Take it with a grain of salt, but Trump's popularity is certainly not going down right now, and may even be going up. The Democrats really fumbled the ball on the relief bill. It's not about reality people, it's about perception.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/opinions/americans-like-trump-handling-crisis-opinion-jennings/index.html

    I read that same article. Nate Silver was talking on twitter about this a little bit (not the article, but Trump's bump in approval). Apparently, its considerably smaller than the bump that the leader of almost every major democracy in the world is seeing (Macron, Merkel, Johnson, etc - They're all seeing approval spikes). It may be a rally around the flag effect, as @jjstraka34 is alluding to.

    The question is: does bad economic news + the advancement of the virus (which isnt at its worst stage yet by any stretch) start to depress his popularity in the coming months. It's almost certain that we'll be in a recession by the reporting in Q1 and Q2. Does that + 250,000 cases + 12,000 deaths + record unemployment start to take its toll?

    I mean, it seems extremely likely. I do sympathize a little. Even though he utterly bungled the initial response to the virus, this current outcome was probable no matter what. If any president in the history of our country was in office right now, their approval rating and election chances would probably take a massive hit when the full consequences of the virus has become known.

    There's no "winning" this one, electorally. There's just holding on.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,087
    edited March 26
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    This guy is certainly to the right of center but there are some good insights in here. Take it with a grain of salt, but Trump's popularity is certainly not going down right now, and may even be going up. The Democrats really fumbled the ball on the relief bill. It's not about reality people, it's about perception.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/opinions/americans-like-trump-handling-crisis-opinion-jennings/index.html

    I admit I was surprised when I saw the Gallup poll information. Apart from what was in this article though, I suspect part of the reason is that most people just don't look at detailed information. To someone tracking that there is a glaring mismatch between the information Trump has given out and the underlying reality - but that's not obvious if you're not tracking the details, given that case numbers and deaths are still low in absolute terms.

    Over the next couple of weeks or so the reported cases are likely to go past a million (if the availability of tests can keep pace with the current criteria) and will still be rising rapidly - the fact that large areas in the US have not yet implemented significant social distancing measures means that the peak for infections is still some way off. That will make it much more difficult to claim that the epidemic is not a real threat. That doesn't of course mean that people will necessarily blame Trump for saying for so long it was not a threat, but some may do so.

    Ayiekie
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,302
    As long as the media keeps attacking Biden because he disappeared for a week when this blew up, Trump will keep getting the bumps. The 'where's Biden talk?' made it seem Biden wasn't capable of responding to the crisis and at least Trump was.

    But seriously, Biden did exactly what he should have done when an emergency started - shut the hell up and let those in charge make the decisions. That is what they were elected to do. Sanders gets a pass because he is still part of the Senate and his voice matters. Biden, right now, is just an ordinary citizen. He can critic the response after it happened, but attacking it while the decisions are being made is beneficial to no one and would just sow more confusion that is already being sowed.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    edited March 26
    The facts on the ground (if you listen to the thousands of nurses and doctors screaming it at the top of their lungs) is that there are not any supplies to protect them from getting the virus from patients. They are either gone or running out. When they get sick, they are out of commission. On top of that, we are two months behind in testing, so there is no way to even accurately predict how big the waves are going to get. The lack of readiness of supplies and refusal to accept and implement testing in January isn't just a blunder, it's one of the single biggest fuck-ups in American history. Easily. And it's what we "resistance" types have been telling you would happen for 3 years if a crisis hit.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    The fact is that Barack Obama left him with a recovering economy and an international pandemic response apparatus.

    The economy got even better under Trump until everyone decided to freak the f out and start forcing businesses to close and people to stay home, unable to work, causing the worst and fastest economic free-fall since Black Tuesday. As for the other....false claim is false--the Obama Administration held a "readiness test" over a pandemic and it failed miserably in much the same way we have seen happen now.

    Biden was out for a week because he was teaching classes--don't you recall that he became a professor after leaving his job as VP? Biden recalls it, so it must have happened.

    If things get as bad as a lot of you keep predicting--wildly speculating--it will get then we can just cancel elections this coming November and everyone currently in office can just stay in office until elections are able to be held. That sounds equitable, which is always better than fair. The number of cases might be rising but the rate at which new cases is increasing is, itself, decreasing--this means we are approaching the top of the bell curve, after which it starts to go down again. Calm down, relax, and do something other than overindulging in nothing but negative news.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    edited March 26
    Yeah, the whole world is shutting their societies down over a "freak-out". I imagine on libertarianwonderland.com everything you just said is believed to be true. The real issue is that this situation has exposed that entire political philosophy as a sham.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,087
    edited March 26
    If things get as bad as a lot of you keep predicting--wildly speculating--it will get then we can just cancel elections this coming November and everyone currently in office can just stay in office until elections are able to be held. That sounds equitable, which is always better than fair. The number of cases might be rising but the rate at which new cases is increasing is, itself, decreasing--this means we are approaching the top of the bell curve, after which it starts to go down again. Calm down, relax, and do something other than overindulging in nothing but negative news.

    Here's a graph of confirmed cases in the US (taken from here). There's not a lot of sign that the rate is slowing down in the last few days and it would need to slow appreciably to keep numbers under a million in two weeks time. 1znlhg5xu4at.jpg
    While there will almost certainly be a slow down in some places (such as New York), there are other places in the US where the curve is just starting to rise sharply that haven't taken any significant measures (and any taken now are unlikely to have any significant effect in the next couple of weeks).

    An optimistic view of what will happen in the next two weeks would be to say there will be a significant reduction in the rate of growth of numbers as a result of both official and individual social distancing actions already taken. However, unless you really believe in Trump's view that a miracle is due any day, any thought that the case numbers are about to peak would be an example of wild speculation.

    jjstraka34ThacoBellAyiekie
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    edited March 26
    Grond0 wrote: »
    If things get as bad as a lot of you keep predicting--wildly speculating--it will get then we can just cancel elections this coming November and everyone currently in office can just stay in office until elections are able to be held. That sounds equitable, which is always better than fair. The number of cases might be rising but the rate at which new cases is increasing is, itself, decreasing--this means we are approaching the top of the bell curve, after which it starts to go down again. Calm down, relax, and do something other than overindulging in nothing but negative news.

    Here's a graph of confirmed cases in the US (taken from here). There's not a lot of sign that the rate is slowing down in the last few days and it would need to slow appreciably to keep numbers under a million in two weeks time. 1znlhg5xu4at.jpg
    While there will almost certainly be a slow down in some places (such as New York), there are other places in the US where the curve is just starting to rise sharply that haven't taken any significant measures (and any taken now are unlikely to have any significant effect in the next couple of weeks).

    An optimistic view of what will happen in the next two weeks would be to say there will be a significant reduction in the rate of growth of numbers as a result of both official and individual social distancing actions already taken. However, unless you really believe in Trump's view that a miracle is due any day, any thought that the case numbers are about to peak would be an example of wild speculation.

    And of course, when social distancing where it is MOST heavily enforced DOES work, then those who opposed it will say it was never necessary in the first place. Those of us in the "alarmist" brigade have been anticipating this line of attack for the last week. The US is going to have multiple, rolling outbreaks because the nearly totally absent federal response has left the decisions to fall solely on 50 different governors doing 50 different things.

    And I'm telling you. Testing is critical. The labs are basically at capacity. The amount of pending tests per day is ALSO sky high. The amount of pending tests from yesterday QUADRUPLED.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,003
    edited March 26
    If you say so. Recall, though, that socialism got exposed as a scam a long time ago and people are still trying to accomplish it, so...I guess we are all just stubborn beasts.

    Speaking of stubborn socialist beasts....Ocasio-Cortez is complaining that the stimulus bill doesn't guarantee money to immigrants. They aren't citizens so they don't deserve any extra money, but I suppose she has no choice but to keep trying to push her agenda. I am simply glad that she won't get what she wants.

    Still...all this stimulus package stuff....*shrug* how is this *not* the government essentially taking over the entire economy? Why doesn't the Federal Government just directly put all the $2 trillion into buying stocks, own 51% of as many corporations as they can own, then they can appoint their own Boards of Directors and micromanage the entire economy? Logically, if you are going to take over then take over for real--don't go only halfway.

    Gun stores were declared "nonessential". Actually, I don't have a problem with that (even though stores shouldn't be closing unless they choose to do so). They really aren't essential--you won't die without them. Of course, all the vape shops and CBD stores are nonessential, as well.

    Ultimately, I always knew that modern society--not just us, but everywhere--was only a thin veil. It took only one virus to tear it to shreds and now here we are, treating every random person we might meet as a pariah since they may be an asymptomatic carrier.

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,093
    I always knew a truly libertarian society (aka: a scam) would eat itself in some way, but it's good to see it confirmed, even if only hypothetically.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    I always knew a truly libertarian society (aka: a scam) would eat itself in some way, but it's good to see it confirmed, even if only hypothetically.

    The US is facing all these problems at once:

    1.) A two-month lag in testing capacity.

    2.) A health care system that is for-profit and running out of supplies

    3.) An Administration that is actively lying to the public and literally advocating policies that would kill untold amounts of people if implemented. And a media arm that is endlessly rebroadcasting that message.

    4.) A population that is, to be blunt, spoiled and selfish, who think they are immune to the problems of the rest of the world.

    Add it all up, and it comes out to nothing good. Nothing good at all.

    smeagolheartThacoBell
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,093
    edited March 26
    Oh definitely. I didn't mean the US - we're by far not libertarian, despite efforts by awful people like Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, and their paymasters - for example, the Koch Brother(s), I was more looking at what someone else said we should be doing under these circumstances.

    The US is well and truly screwed, and I agree with you.

    jjstraka34smeagolheartThacoBell
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,988
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I always knew a truly libertarian society (aka: a scam) would eat itself in some way, but it's good to see it confirmed, even if only hypothetically.

    The US is facing all these problems at once:

    1.) A two-month lag in testing capacity.

    2.) A health care system that is for-profit and running out of supplies

    3.) An Administration that is actively lying to the public and literally advocating policies that would kill untold amounts of people if implemented. And a media arm that is endlessly rebroadcasting that message.

    4.) A population that is, to be blunt, spoiled and selfish, who think they are immune to the problems of the rest of the world.

    Add it all up, and it comes out to nothing good. Nothing good at all.

    You forgot one...

    5) The same geniuses who brought us Hillary Clinton decided that Joe Biden should be their next presidential candidate.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 8,362
    edited March 26
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I always knew a truly libertarian society (aka: a scam) would eat itself in some way, but it's good to see it confirmed, even if only hypothetically.

    The US is facing all these problems at once:

    1.) A two-month lag in testing capacity.

    2.) A health care system that is for-profit and running out of supplies

    3.) An Administration that is actively lying to the public and literally advocating policies that would kill untold amounts of people if implemented. And a media arm that is endlessly rebroadcasting that message.

    4.) A population that is, to be blunt, spoiled and selfish, who think they are immune to the problems of the rest of the world.

    Add it all up, and it comes out to nothing good. Nothing good at all.

    You forgot one...

    5) The same geniuses who brought us Hillary Clinton decided that Joe Biden should be their next presidential candidate.

    I can't think of a single person I'd rather have in charge right now than the unlikable, overachieving woman who had detailed contingency plans for things we haven't even thought of. The problem with gambling on Trump was assuming outside events wouldn't intervene and overwhelm him.

    smeagolheartThacoBellsemiticgod
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,302
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I always knew a truly libertarian society (aka: a scam) would eat itself in some way, but it's good to see it confirmed, even if only hypothetically.

    The US is facing all these problems at once:

    1.) A two-month lag in testing capacity.

    2.) A health care system that is for-profit and running out of supplies

    3.) An Administration that is actively lying to the public and literally advocating policies that would kill untold amounts of people if implemented. And a media arm that is endlessly rebroadcasting that message.

    4.) A population that is, to be blunt, spoiled and selfish, who think they are immune to the problems of the rest of the world.

    Add it all up, and it comes out to nothing good. Nothing good at all.

    You forgot one...

    5) The same geniuses who brought us Hillary Clinton decided that Joe Biden should be their next presidential candidate.

    you mean black southern voters? Ya, why should they have a say in who runs the country...

    ronaldosemiticgod
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,988
    deltago wrote: »
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I always knew a truly libertarian society (aka: a scam) would eat itself in some way, but it's good to see it confirmed, even if only hypothetically.

    The US is facing all these problems at once:

    1.) A two-month lag in testing capacity.

    2.) A health care system that is for-profit and running out of supplies

    3.) An Administration that is actively lying to the public and literally advocating policies that would kill untold amounts of people if implemented. And a media arm that is endlessly rebroadcasting that message.

    4.) A population that is, to be blunt, spoiled and selfish, who think they are immune to the problems of the rest of the world.

    Add it all up, and it comes out to nothing good. Nothing good at all.

    You forgot one...

    5) The same geniuses who brought us Hillary Clinton decided that Joe Biden should be their next presidential candidate.

    you mean black southern voters? Ya, why should they have a say in who runs the country...

    No, I mean the geniuses who told the black southern voters to vote for.

    smeagolheart
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,093
    Probably not all that great to imply that Black southern voters need to be told who to vote for, as if they're just foot soldiers following orders.

    ronaldoBallpointManAyiekiesemiticgod
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,988
    Probably not all that great to imply that Black southern voters need to be told who to vote for, as if they're just foot soldiers following orders.

    Don't care that much about optics. I'm not a politician...

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,093
    Balrog99 wrote: »
    Probably not all that great to imply that Black southern voters need to be told who to vote for, as if they're just foot soldiers following orders.

    Don't care that much about optics. I'm not a politician...

    This is more about facts than optics. Black southern voters voted the way they do the same way everyone else does: Based on what the candidate means to them. They're not obedient Democrat soldiers who just vote how they're told any more than anyone else is.

    BallpointManronaldosemiticgod
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,034
    The whole "Biden is the new Clinton" canard is pretty much 100% off.

    If Biden was the new Clinton, then no one but Bernie Sanders would have run against him in Iowa. Recall the Biden finished in 4th in Iowa.

    No one forced Biden on anyone. He was fairly chosen by a majority of the electorate. Actually, he does share that in common with Clinton...

    BelleSorciereronaldoAyiekie
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 5,988
    I'm sorry, I just don't get what you people see in Biden. He's not as unlikable as Clinton? He's not 'scary' like Crazy Bernie? What the Hell is it? To me he's just an old man with some obvious old man issues and not very charismatic to boot. I'd love to hear what makes this guy worth voting for because, "At least I'm better than Trump" is not a great slogan...

    smeagolheart
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