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  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,459
    Talking of conspiracy theories, it strikes me that Trump may well not be unhappy to see the reputation of the FBI tarnished as part of undermining the credibility of former heads of the FBI (while that's unfair in the sense that the White House dictated the terms of the investigation, I think it would be a fairly common public reaction). Trump already has a clear track record of appointing department heads specifically tasked with subverting the previous work of the departments, so it would be no particular surprise to see Christopher Wray at least partly acting in this role.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited October 2018
    @Mathsorcerer: You're acting as if the FBI is a single entity with a single brain. This is not true. The FBI is a large organization with lots of different people in it. It's possible to think that one guy in the FBI is doing one thing right and another guy in the FBI is doing one thing wrong.

    This particular investigation was headed by friends of Kavanaugh--and friends of Kavanaugh are biased in favor of him. The FBI as a whole is right-leaning (conservatism is correlated with careers in security and law enforcement in general) but not necessarily supportive of Trump, Kavanaugh, or any given Republican. Mueller is a Republican with no clear opinions about Trump.

    I support the Mueller investigation because (among numerous other reasons) Mueller has made no statements and taken no actions to suggest he's biased. I criticize the Kavanaugh investigation because it was deliberately constrained by the Trump administration and was run by Kavanaugh's own friends.

    I don't say "Mueller investigation is good because FBI good, but Kavanaugh investigation is bad because FBI bad." I base my conclusions on who IN the FBI is running it. I don't judge every individual person and every individual investigation based on an acronym.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    For the record, no, the FBI doesn't oppose Trump or the administration. That's just a conspiracy theory about the "deep state" based on Trump's personal fear of the Mueller investigation. This particular investigation, though, is headed by friends of Kavanaugh.

    Again, the FBI isn't one person with one mind.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited October 2018
    It's also true that Trump has tainted the whole thing with his constant allegations and undermining against the FBI.

    The FBI could tend to want to prove that they are not libruls and go overboard with trying to prove that they aren't by delivering and shaping the report that they think he wants. Just so he won't yell at them. Instead he might praise them! Oh boy. Battered wife syndrome.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,459

    For the record, no, the FBI doesn't oppose Trump or the administration. That's just a conspiracy theory about the "deep state" based on Trump's personal fear of the Mueller investigation. This particular investigation, though, is headed by friends of Kavanaugh.

    Again, the FBI isn't one person with one mind.

    If that's a response to me, I wasn't suggesting the FBI do oppose Trump. I was suggesting though that Trump has an interest in discrediting Comey and Mueller as former heads of the FBI and I don't believe he would care at all if other people were caught up in that process.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811



    I love how the Democrats are throwing the FBI under the bus now. When the FBI was looking into Trump they couldn't praise it enough, but now that this investigation didn't go the way they wanted they can't get in front of a camera fast enough to feign indignation and being upset.

    There is a huge difference between the FBI Trump investigation and the one they are investigating with Kavanaugh and that is the scope and transparency between the two and the person in charge of it.

    It’s like putting Manafort in charge of the Trump investigation.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    In other news, the new Season of South Park has started strongly, with the first episode addressing school shootings and the second one the catholic church. Anyone else watched it?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    In other news, the new Season of South Park has started strongly, with the first episode addressing school shootings and the second one the catholic church. Anyone else watched it?

    Feels like South Park could have addressed either of those issues in the last 20 years and it would have been the same topic and discussion. Nothing has changed in regards to either one.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455

    In other news, the new Season of South Park has started strongly, with the first episode addressing school shootings and the second one the catholic church. Anyone else watched it?

    Feels like South Park could have addressed either of those issues in the last 20 years and it would have been the same topic and discussion. Nothing has changed in regards to either one.
    Well, they did do the catholic church before as well. And they've done guns but not school shootings specifically. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    Southpark seems not really newsworthy when Democracy is being hijacked by Republicans packing the Supreme Court with a lunatic partisan alcoholic misogynist who lied repeatedly during his confirmation hearings.

    Not to mention Kavanaugh is being placed there by a President who wants to be above the law and under. He is also an unindicted co-conspirator in several felonies. Stuff like that kind of ruins pop culture.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2018
    This recent u-turn brings up an interesting comparison. How come nearly EVERYONE is 100% willing to believe the story of anyone who was sexually abused by a priest as a young boy, but this same standard is not applied to women who may have waited roughly the same amount of time to come forward with their stories?? In both cases, the perpetrators are almost always men with some sort of power or status. Is it as simple as it seems to be, which is that society simply doesn't VALUE women as anything more than sex objects??
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    It more has to do with “what does the person gain for coming forward?”

    I think a lot of people can say “nothing” when it is coming up against the church, but people can still make “it’s politics” “it’s for fame” or anything else depending on who is being accused.

    For example, when Randy Lee, the assistant GM for the senators was accused of sexual harrassment by a Buffalo shuttle driver, my first instinct was “I bet the accuser is a Sabres fan.” I instantly dismissed it because I thought I knew who Lee was and I know nothing about the driver. I think that is unfair to the driver but that was my first instinct.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    Has anyone truthfully defended Kavanaugh lying under oath? Why the rush to confirm this particular piece of work? The GOP's like yeah it's cool! wut is wrong with these people.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2018
    Kavanaugh has now published and op-ed in the Wall Street Journal. The WSJ's news division is one thing. Their editorial page and board are notoriously, hardcore right-wing partisans. What the hell is a Supreme Court nominee doing submitting opinion pieces to right-wing media outlets on the eve of his confirmation vote?? Why should any person who isn't a partisan Republican EVER believe Kavanaugh wouldn't rule against them after engaging in such a tactic?? He does a live interview with FOX News and then goes to the Wall Street Journal Editorial Page to whine. Show me Kagan or Sotomayor engaging in this behavior. For that matter, show me Gorsuch, Roberts and Alito trying to SELL their confirmation in right-wing media outlets. Hell, even Clarence Thomas didn't go this far, he at least had the sense to let the movement do the work of smearing Anita Hill for him. Kavanaugh is directly selling himself as someone who will be a judge for a certain party. It has never, ever been more blatant than this.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    The op-ed is more lies and gaslighting. "I'm an impartial neutral judge."

    Oh rly LIAR.

    We saw with our own eyes what you are Sir. A liar. He perjured himself. And now he's lying about his old lies in the WSJ.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Meanwhile in the rest of the world:

    Canada is going to hold a WTO summit with 12 other countries in an attempt to figure out a way that they can fix the issues that are plaguing it.

    The countries/regions invited are: Australia, Brazil, Chile, the European Union, Japan, Kenya, South Korea, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Singapore and Switzerland.

    That is right. The United States are being left out because "we think that the best way to sequence the discussion is to start with like-minded people, and that's whom we have invited and they're coming," said Jim Carr, Canada's newly appointed international trade diversification minister.

    The Canadian discussion paper lays out three broad themes for the discussion: safeguarding and strengthening the dispute settlement system; improving the efficiency and effectiveness of the WTO monitoring function; and modernizing trade rules for the 21st Century.

    This shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The US, with their recent actions, are being left behind on international decisions such as this.

    But one also has to wonder if this is just a domestic political play as its popular to dump on Trump. I am hoping this gets legs and the US loses a significant amount of power when it comes to WTO as they have proved they do not follow the rules now.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Add "moving a TV into your own home" to the list of things you can't do in America while black. As a kicker, this story also has a blatant 4th Amendment violation, which is almost a side-note. The excuse from the police department?? The usual "we've had a lot of robberies in this area". It's the answer EVERY time. At this point you have to wonder if they are taught this line in training:

    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/409975-black-man-placed-in-handcuffs-while-trying-to-move-tv-into-his
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Also, this:
    Scores of Kavanaugh protesters arrested after descending on Senate building

    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/409999-scores-of-kavanaugh-protesters-arrested-after-descending-on-senate-building

    Kavanaugh's former classmates, 'drinking buddies' call on Senate to vote 'no' on confirmation
    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/410029-kavanaughs-former-classmates-drinking-buddies-call-on-senate-to

    Hundreds of female Alaska attorneys call on Murkowski, Sullivan to vote 'no' on Kavanaugh
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/410031-hundreds-of-female-alaska-attorneys-call-on-murkowski-sullivan-to-vote-no-on

    Heitkamp's brother on her Kavanaugh vote: She may lose but she has to like who she sees in the mirror
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/409973-heitkamps-brother-on-her-kavanaugh-no-vote-she-may-lose-but-she-has-to-like
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    edited October 2018
    The FBI investigation report is over 1,000 pages and the Senators are supposed to read 1 single copy in 24 hours. Goddamned rigged. It's not right.

    But here's some good news, House Democrats wrote Trump a letter to promise to investigate (and presumably impeach) Kavanaugh for perjury once they take over the House.

    The members raised not only Kavanaugh’s involvement in the Bush administration’s widespread, secret, and illegal surveillance of Americans following the events of September 11, 2001, but also testimony he made before the Senate during his time in the Bush White House that has since been called into question

    https://theintercept.com/2018/10/04/brett-kavanaugh-perjury-warrantless-surveillance/
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    Apparently, one of the six former investigations into Brett Kavanaugh's background found problems with alcohol. Senator Dick Durbin tweeted about this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iHEm-udTZU
  • voidofopinionvoidofopinion Member, Moderator Posts: 1,248
    This is all just utterly insane.

    Whats even more insane is that it's also utterly unsurprising.

    :/
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    You have that right. Heidi Heitkamp has come out as a "No" on Kavanaugh.

    That leaves 4 Senators left.

    Here is John Paul Stevens, a lifelong Republican, on Kavanaugh.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYX2BCn4ioU

    Judge Kavanaugh for... Senate?!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLnjcmcn6AM

    Meagre FBI report no help to Senators Conflicted over Kavanugh
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN-L33DyafQ
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/04/politics/kavanaugh-midterms-republicans-2018/index.html

    And yet, it appears as though the incredibly public and nasty fight over what Kavanaugh did or didn't do has had a somewhat unexpected result: Republican base voters are suddenly telling pollsters that they are considerably more enthusiastic about voting in 33 days' time.
    In a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll, Republicans had closed a 10-point enthusiasm deficit with Democrats in July, which is down to just 2 points now. In July, 78% of Democrats and 68% of Republicans said the November elections were "very important." Now, 80% of Democrats say the same while 78% of Republicans do too.
    That same poll shows that the Democratic edge on the generic ballot question -- if the election were held today would you vote for the Democratic or Republican candidate in your district -- has been cut in half (from 12 points to 6) between mid-September and now. Now, this poll was conducted entirely in one night, so it may not be completely representative of public opinion.


    :o disaster...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited October 2018
    bob_veng said:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/04/politics/kavanaugh-midterms-republicans-2018/index.html

    And yet, it appears as though the incredibly public and nasty fight over what Kavanaugh did or didn't do has had a somewhat unexpected result: Republican base voters are suddenly telling pollsters that they are considerably more enthusiastic about voting in 33 days' time.
    In a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll, Republicans had closed a 10-point enthusiasm deficit with Democrats in July, which is down to just 2 points now. In July, 78% of Democrats and 68% of Republicans said the November elections were "very important." Now, 80% of Democrats say the same while 78% of Republicans do too.
    That same poll shows that the Democratic edge on the generic ballot question -- if the election were held today would you vote for the Democratic or Republican candidate in your district -- has been cut in half (from 12 points to 6) between mid-September and now. Now, this poll was conducted entirely in one night, so it may not be completely representative of public opinion.


    :o disaster...
    You mean the voters who have had complete control of the government for the last two years despite getting FAR less votes, were gifted a stolen Supreme Court pick already, and are in all likelihood going to put their new perjuring, possibly sexual assaulting hero on the court anyway STILL think the deck is stacked against them?? Color me shocked.......
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    They say Democrats play the victim, but Republicans *love* to be the victim! Then they complain about how horrible and vile the Democrats are. ::Rolls eyes::
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,308
    real-politically speaking, the way the situation is developing for the republicans is much better than expected (around a week ago)
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    bob_veng said:

    real-politically speaking, the way the situation is developing for the republicans is much better than expected (around a week ago)

    I'd be wary of this media concern-trolling about Democratic chances....they are obsessed with pushing horserace politics at all costs.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,964
    I'm pretty sure as evidenced by the thousands of people taking to the streets and protesting this garbage that people are also motivated to stop the destruction of America and the embrace of facism by the Republican party as well.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    I'm pretty sure as evidenced by the thousands of people taking to the streets and protesting this garbage that people are also motivated to stop the destruction of America and the embrace of facism by the Republican party as well.

    Haven’t you heard. They are paid professionals according to the president. Soros has them all in his pocket.
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