I think the general idea is that it's completely unnecessary and has no potential upside other than soothing his maniacal ego. And at a bare minimum, on the downside, he could conceivably infect his security detail and driver. And again, for what?? To have a mini-parade??
The point is these people don't give a single shit about anyone but themselves. All of sudden, when Trump and Chris Christie get the disease, they are either put on experimental treatments or admitted to the hospital as a "precaution" (Chris Christie isn't even a government official anymore). In May, we were hearing about how senior citizens had to sacrifice themselves for the good of the economy. It's apparently only serious and worthy of sympathy when THEY are personally infected. I care less and less as the hours go by what happens to them. These are horrible, evil people.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
What people who have had relatives die of COVID-19 will tell you, to a person, is that their loved one died alone, with them only able to say goodbye to them via Zoom or the phone, and a nurse to share their final moments. This is unbearably tough, but something they all understand, because it is done to prevent someone else from possibly suffering the same fate.
Trump, lucky enough to receive the absolute best care in the world (stuff not available to the general public, for that matter), decides to spit in the face of all those families and go for a fucking joyride while in the midst of being actively symptomatic. It's absolutely obscene. He can't even stay in his hospital room for the required time period, basically because he is bored and needs the attention. It's unforgivable. This is why 215,000 people are dead. Because people like this are in charge. Human beings totally devoid of any empathy or shame. Incapable of feeling either.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
I'm honestly at a loss. If this weekend doesn't reveal this Administration (and the Republican Party in general) has absolutely NO regard for the safety of anyone regarding this virus, then nothing will. I've come to grips with the fact that many people simply don't give a shit. That's fine. Most of us do. And I fully expect that to be reflected in the vote totals on November 3rd. And if this absolute clown somehow CAN survive the farce we are currently being forced to live through, then we are fucked irrespective of him staying in power.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Uhh. So... meeting with dozens of people. Without masks or social distancing, resulting in numerous infections... and we're not going to call that reckless? Having indoor rallies where masks were only enforced in the sections that are supposed to be on Camera... that's not reckless? In a pandemic, which has cost 200,000 American's their lives. (50,000 Benghazis. 100 9/11s).
Nothing of importance. If one of those secret service members gets COVID, is it still "not important"? If your answer is "no" - then it's already important, because he put them in harms way for a photo op.
But please. Go ahead and die on the hill that Trump and crew arent being reckless in how they've handled *gestures at everything*.
Edit - other "non comically reckless" actions: Going to a fundraiser in New Jersey after learning that someone he had been in close contact with had COVID. His family refusing to wear masks when they attended the debate (despite being asked to as part of the rules. Whoops. Melania at a minimum probably already had it by then).
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Uhh. So... meeting with dozens of people. Without masks or social distancing, resulting in numerous infections... and we're not going to call that reckless? Having indoor rallies where masks were only enforced in the sections that are supposed to be on Camera... that's not reckless? In a pandemic, which has cost 200,000 American's their lives. (50,000 Benghazis. 10,000 9/11s).
Nothing of importance. If one of those secret service members gets COVID, is it still "not important"? If your answer is "no" - then it's already important, because he put them in harms way for a photo op.
But please. Go ahead and die on the hill that Trump and crew arent being reckless in how they've handled *gestures at everything*.
Edit - other "non comically reckless" actions: Going to a fundraiser in New Jersey after learning that someone he had been in close contact with had COVID. His family refusing to wear masks when they attended the debate (despite being asked to as part of the rules. Whoops. Melania at a minimum probably already had it by then).
We still have NO straight answers on when Trump first tested positive. For all we know, since Chris Wallace has flat-out stated Trump arrived to the debate too late to take the test, he may have had it then. They won't TELL US, so the answer is clearly bad news. At a BARE minimum, Trump went to a buffet lunch fundraiser after being WELL aware he was in direct contact with Hope Hicks. Even given the stone-walling from the White House on this (which is the most charitable way to phrase what it is), we have been able to at LEAST piece that together. ANY responsible person would have isolated pending test results.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Huh? They hosted a party at the White House where very few people were wearing masks, where they were hugging and congratulating each other and kissing each other on the cheek. And several attendees have freaking COVID. Come on!
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Uhh. So... meeting with dozens of people. Without masks or social distancing, resulting in numerous infections... and we're not going to call that reckless? Having indoor rallies where masks were only enforced in the sections that are supposed to be on Camera... that's not reckless? In a pandemic, which has cost 200,000 American's their lives. (50,000 Benghazis. 10,000 9/11s).
Nothing of importance. If one of those secret service members gets COVID, is it still "not important"? If your answer is "no" - then it's already important, because he put them in harms way for a photo op.
But please. Go ahead and die on the hill that Trump and crew arent being reckless in how they've handled *gestures at everything*.
Edit - other "non comically reckless" actions: Going to a fundraiser in New Jersey after learning that someone he had been in close contact with had COVID. His family refusing to wear masks when they attended the debate (despite being asked to as part of the rules. Whoops. Melania at a minimum probably already had it by then).
We still have NO straight answers on when Trump first tested positive. For all we know, since Chris Wallace has flat-out stated Trump arrived to the debate too late to take the test, he may have had it then. They won't TELL US, so the answer is clearly bad news. At a BARE minimum, Trump went to a buffet lunch fundraiser after being WELL aware he was in direct contact with Hope Hicks. Even given the stone-walling from the White House on this (which is the most charitable way to phrase what it is), we have been able to at LEAST piece that together. ANY responsible person would have isolated pending test results.
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories - but there's a lot about this whole situation that doesnt quite add up. We dont know when he first got it (well. We can strongly suspect it was at the ACB gathering in the Rose Garden). I mean to say, we dont know when he first failed a test. That said, he has refused to release the time of his last negative test. That's not a good look. We also have a decent idea of the pathology of the virus. He was tested early Friday morning, and by the end of the day on Friday was already experiencing shortness of breath. Apparently that symptom is usually (but not always) one that presents after several days of being sick.
There are credible reasons to believe he may have not only been sick, but maybe symptomatic for days before his first reported positive test on Friday. We cannot know for sure, but that's mostly because he's stonewalling on evidence.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Uhh. So... meeting with dozens of people. Without masks or social distancing, resulting in numerous infections... and we're not going to call that reckless? Having indoor rallies where masks were only enforced in the sections that are supposed to be on Camera... that's not reckless? In a pandemic, which has cost 200,000 American's their lives. (50,000 Benghazis. 10,000 9/11s).
Nothing of importance. If one of those secret service members gets COVID, is it still "not important"? If your answer is "no" - then it's already important, because he put them in harms way for a photo op.
But please. Go ahead and die on the hill that Trump and crew arent being reckless in how they've handled *gestures at everything*.
Edit - other "non comically reckless" actions: Going to a fundraiser in New Jersey after learning that someone he had been in close contact with had COVID. His family refusing to wear masks when they attended the debate (despite being asked to as part of the rules. Whoops. Melania at a minimum probably already had it by then).
We still have NO straight answers on when Trump first tested positive. For all we know, since Chris Wallace has flat-out stated Trump arrived to the debate too late to take the test, he may have had it then. They won't TELL US, so the answer is clearly bad news. At a BARE minimum, Trump went to a buffet lunch fundraiser after being WELL aware he was in direct contact with Hope Hicks. Even given the stone-walling from the White House on this (which is the most charitable way to phrase what it is), we have been able to at LEAST piece that together. ANY responsible person would have isolated pending test results.
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories - but there's a lot about this whole situation that doesnt quite add up. We dont know when he first got it (well. We can strongly suspect it was at the ACB gathering in the Rose Garden). I mean to say, we dont know when he first failed a test. That said, he has refused to release the time of his last negative test. That's not a good look. We also have a decent idea of the pathology of the virus. He was tested early Friday morning, and by the end of the day on Friday was already experiencing shortness of breath. Apparently that symptom is usually (but not always) one that presents after several days of being sick.
There are credible reasons to believe he may have not only been sick, but maybe symptomatic for days before his first reported positive test on Friday. We cannot know for sure, but that's mostly because he's stonewalling on evidence.
This is not FDR or JFK hiding their illness from the public. Neither of those men were capable of SPREADING their ailments to anyone else while in office. Moreover, it has been 60 years since that time. I'd like to think we've come far enough to deserve straight answers on the President's health, but we are getting conflicting statements from minute to minute from his own goddamn doctor.
We know he has been on oxygen at least twice. We know he is taking drug therapies that are only reserved for people with serious symptoms. We know he is basically doing bare minimum photo ops that can only be compared to Communist propaganda when a leader is ill (ask some people from Russia, and they'll tell you how similar this all is to when Yeltsin was essentially drinking himself into a stupor on a daily basis). We know COVID-19 quite often plays out with a series of ups and downs, before the patient either gets better, or finally takes a turn for the worst. The lack of transparency is not surprising, but that doesn't make it any less alarming.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
The secret service is not the trump government. I did not make an excuses for trump or his horrendous presidency I stated that the secret service is much smarter than someone who has secret sources that knows what the secret service decisions are. Trump not saying he was sick and infecting others should, in my opinion, be looked at from a legal stance as to who can sue him through his negligence and not being transparent about his illness.
If your comment was a blanket general statement then I agree with you one 100%, it is amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. If it was directed towards me alone then I hope you see I was not making excuses for trump and that a proper read of my statement should of made that clear.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
The secret service is not the trump government. I did not make an excuses for trump or his horrendous presidency I stated that the secret service is much smarter than someone who has secret sources that knows what the secret service decisions are. Trump not saying he was sick and infecting others should, in my opinion, be looked at from a legal stance as to who can sue him through his negligence and not being transparent about his illness.
If your comment was a blanket general statement then I agree with you one 100%, it is amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. If it was directed towards me alone then I hope you see I was not making excuses for trump and that a proper read of my statement should of made that clear.
The secret service has no decision making power here. They have to do what the president tells them. Do you seriously think they could have vetoed his car ride?
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Huh? They hosted a party at the White House where very few people were wearing masks, where they were hugging and congratulating each other and kissing each other on the cheek. And several attendees have freaking COVID. Come on!
Hey, you're not wrong. There have been a number of serious breaches of protocol, but not everyone is going to agree that this implies systemic institutional incompetence, rather than the incompetence of a single person, who can be acted around. I just think the argument is worth making and shouldn't be automatically dismissed.
My opinion is that we did not do the worst in the Western world by any means, but we could have done far, far better. It spread far further than it should have. States have a good measure of autonomy here, and my state of PA took early emergency measures and kept them. The spread of COVID across the U.S has to account for both state and federal incompetence.
The two main metrics being used to track the deadliness of the disease is in the fatality rate among those who get it, and how many die per capita. As you can see, our fatality rate is low, but somehow our deaths per capita are high. This tells me that although we are treating it well, we let it spread to absolutely inexcusable levels.
I sincerely hope this is a global lesson that is learned here.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
We shun and ridicule conspiracy theorists until we need to be one to fit our mind fucked reality.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
We shun and ridicule conspiracy theorists until we need to be one to fit our mind fucked reality.
I am personally of the opinion that some conspiracies contain at least a grain of truth, probably more, and the more one is talked about as being crazy and fringe by mainstream people the more I am convinced that there is something to it.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
The secret service is not the trump government. I did not make an excuses for trump or his horrendous presidency I stated that the secret service is much smarter than someone who has secret sources that knows what the secret service decisions are. Trump not saying he was sick and infecting others should, in my opinion, be looked at from a legal stance as to who can sue him through his negligence and not being transparent about his illness.
If your comment was a blanket general statement then I agree with you one 100%, it is amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. If it was directed towards me alone then I hope you see I was not making excuses for trump and that a proper read of my statement should of made that clear.
The secret service has no decision making power here. They have to do what the president tells them. Do you seriously think they could have vetoed his car ride?
Yes they could of if it endangered the President or anyone on detail around him, this isn't a Tom Clancy novel this is real life.
As far as I am aware, the Secret Service is always with him, car ride or not. The only person possibly exposed is the driver, but there are vehicles where the driver and front passenger seat are walled off from the back. I simply don't know enough to say.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Huh? They hosted a party at the White House where very few people were wearing masks, where they were hugging and congratulating each other and kissing each other on the cheek. And several attendees have freaking COVID. Come on!
Hey, you're not wrong. There have been a number of serious breaches of protocol, but not everyone is going to agree that this implies systemic institutional incompetence, rather than the incompetence of a single person, who can be acted around. I just think the argument is worth making and shouldn't be automatically dismissed.
My opinion is that we did not do the worst in the Western world by any means, but we could have done far, far better. It spread far further than it should have. States have a good measure of autonomy here, and my state of PA took early emergency measures and kept them. The spread of COVID across the U.S has to account for both state and federal incompetence.
The two main metrics being used to track the deadliness of the disease is in the fatality rate among those who get it, and how many die per capita. As you can see, our fatality rate is low, but somehow our deaths per capita are high. This tells me that although we are treating it well, we let it spread to absolutely inexcusable levels.
I sincerely hope this is a global lesson that is learned here.
We are going to pass EVERY country above us on the deaths per million list except Peru by January (some far earlier than that), while at the same time having more cases and deaths than anyone by an significant margin. There is almost nothing for the US to hang their hat on other than possibly saying medical professionals have done their job as well as possible, and there has been significant advancement in the treatment of the virus. That was never the main concern. The concern was an easily transmissible virus would run unchecked through the country, and deaths would pile up through sheer mathematical overload, rather than the overwhelming lethality of the disease to any individual person. Which is exactly what has happened. And if we want to go with the mythical "herd immunity" strategy that is so popular in certain circles, you are going to have to sacrifice about 3 million people to do so. At this rate, even with half the population determined to never let that happen through their own behavior, we are still going to likely see nearly 500,000 dead by next summer if this shit continues on it's current course, and I see no reason it won't at this rate. Cases are rising in 48 states as of yesterday.
As far as I am aware, the Secret Service is always with him, car ride or not. The only person possibly exposed is the driver, but there are vehicles where the driver and front passenger seat are walled off from the back. I simply don't know enough to say.
But, but, I heard it from a friends mother who plays cribbage with someone who dated a secret service person in high school.
As far as I am aware, the Secret Service is always with him, car ride or not. The only person possibly exposed is the driver, but there are vehicles where the driver and front passenger seat are walled off from the back. I simply don't know enough to say.
But, but, I heard it from a friends mother who plays cribbage with someone who dated a secret service person in high school.
What are you attempting to convey here?? We are aware the Secret Service has to protect the President. The question is why they aren't simply guarding his hospital door, but are instead forced into a closed space with him so he can go have playtime with some Qanon supporters on the sidewalk. This is not complicated, and this contrarian nonsense doesn't make it a grey area issue. The question at hand is why any human being would do something so unnecessary given the current circumstances, much less the President of the United States. It shows such a fundamental lack of judgement and basic decency that it boggles the mind, or would if it were any other person. This is like defending Veruca Salt.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
We shun and ridicule conspiracy theorists until we need to be one to fit our mind fucked reality.
Werent you the one who said that Trump won the debates against Clinton, despite all available evidence, and cited that for why Trump was going to beat Biden?
@Æmrys I'm unsure from your comments what your concern is. From your first post tonight I was assuming you were criticizing Biden for not condemning violence clearly enough, but from other posts it seems possible you think he should be taking a more partisan line specifically against Trump. Would you mind clarifying your position?
He is too soft period. Harris has more balls then he does. Those protesters in the street need a strong leader to push ahead with real change. Uncle Joe won't cut it, Trump will eat him alive at the debates and that will put America back another four years with a Trump republican win. There is no more mr nice guy, Trump does not play fair you have to beat him at his own game.
I will never understand this canard. I would love to know where the idea ever came from that Trump was some ace debater. I watched the 2016 Republican primaries, and they were decidedly mediocre in debate performance (Trump included). Heaven help me, I think Cruz was probably the best on stage.
In the 2016 election, Trump lost all 3 of his debates with Clinton, most by a pretty wide margin(She was above average as a debater, but not great. She probably out debated Sanders 1 on 1, but those were also pretty close. Closer than Trump vs Clinton debates). I'm old enough to remember when Obama lost his first debate against Romney in 2012, so I dont feel as though I'm viewing this only through a partisan lens. (Pence came out better than Kaine as well, although that one was closer)
Trump isnt a talented orator. He isnt a good debater. His one skill is reading a room full of fawning supporters and saying provocative things. That's not going to work in the debates because they'll probably have no audience, and the Moderators will control the topics.
Seriously. Go watch the Axios interview he gave a few weeks ago. *That* person isnt going to be good at debating.
Biden's Democratic primary debates were mediocre as well, but against a better field than Trump's. Also, the GOP has lowered the bar so much for Biden that even a passing debate performance will make him look good. Just like he did in his DNC speech.
And this is exactly why Trump will tear Biden a new one. Clinton tried the adult approach to Trumps school yard bully and she might of won in the eyes of scholars and pundits but she lost in the peoples eyes. America is so jacked up on reality tv and gotcha moments that they resonate more with Trumps tactics. The masses have been programmed and Trump paid the right companies to put out his propaganda that they ate up. They will eat it up again in November unless Biden and Co change their battle plan. There is no debate on this. They play his game or its over.
@WarChiefZeke - You're free to argue the US's response vs other countries - but I dont see of that functions as an argument against the current claim: That Trump and the GOP have been horribly reckless in how they've handled their own safety, and that compromises the safety of those around them. It's bad when 100 college kids have a party and are reckless. it's considerably worse when it's a bunch of 50, 60 and 70 year olds doing it. It's nightmare when they're in charge of the government.
We are going to pass EVERY country above us on the deaths per million list except Peru by January (some far earlier than that), while at the same time having more cases and deaths than anyone by an significant margin. There is almost nothing for the US to hang their hat on other than possibly saying medical professionals have done their job as well as possible, and there has been significant advancement in the treatment of the virus. That was never the main concern. The concern was an easily transmissible virus would run unchecked through the country, and deaths would pile up through sheer mathematical overload, rather than the overwhelming lethality of the disease to any individual person. Which is exactly what has happened. And if we want to go with the mythical "herd immunity" strategy that is so popular in certain circles, you are going to have to sacrifice about 3 million people to do so. At this rate, even with half the population determined to never let that happen through their own behavior, we are still going to likely see nearly 500,000 dead by next summer if this shit continues on it's current course, and I see no reason it won't at this rate. Cases are rising in 48 states as of yesterday.
Well, I would give them some credit for keeping the treatment consistently good. The logistical aspects of treating such a massive load of cases of a novel virus across such a huge geographical area and maintaining quality treatment is not nothing. We have the capability, we don't have the leadership, in more than one place.
But yes, getting bogged down just by the sheer scale of the infection rates is exactly the problem here. We would be one of the leaders in treating it right now if we had adopted serious early measures to contain it. Low infection rates, and effective treatment combined.
This shit is literally as simple and fundamental as "set a good example". It's something you have beaten into your head from the time you set foot in a Kindergarten classroom. Somehow, when it comes to Trump, this is thrown out the window. His example has not only been counterproductive, it's been actively working FOR the virus. From day fucking one.
In my opinion, the 2016 debates were the best Trump has ever been. If he didn't win there, he has never won in politics at all, and I think that's hard to argue. He did not do nearly so well against Biden, and I would argue this is because he didn't even try to court centrists or democrats. He had legitimate things to say about the nature of the race, the trade deals that were currently being debated at the time, he could very reasonably have been seen as the anti-war candidate, he implies the tax structure was corrupt and favored the rich! Not a single one of these things applies to Trump today, and I think he suffered for it.
But this is all irrelevant and I have no desire to argue it, it is simply my opinion about a subject of no import.
That vehicle he is in and the others that follow can be vented in milliseconds. Clean oxygen with their own air intake supply. Pretty sure the Secret Service is smarter than a blue check mark.
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
The secret service is not the trump government. I did not make an excuses for trump or his horrendous presidency I stated that the secret service is much smarter than someone who has secret sources that knows what the secret service decisions are. Trump not saying he was sick and infecting others should, in my opinion, be looked at from a legal stance as to who can sue him through his negligence and not being transparent about his illness.
If your comment was a blanket general statement then I agree with you one 100%, it is amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. If it was directed towards me alone then I hope you see I was not making excuses for trump and that a proper read of my statement should of made that clear.
The secret service has no decision making power here. They have to do what the president tells them. Do you seriously think they could have vetoed his car ride?
Yes they could of if it endangered the President or anyone on detail around him, this isn't a Tom Clancy novel this is real life.
Huh? They already hosted an event at the white house without masks and without basic precautions where Trump, the First Lady, several Senators and several other members of White House almost certainly got infected. They already did unsafe stuff! So even if you think, without reason, that the secret service could veto things, they have demonstrated that they won't veto unsafe activities.
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The point is these people don't give a single shit about anyone but themselves. All of sudden, when Trump and Chris Christie get the disease, they are either put on experimental treatments or admitted to the hospital as a "precaution" (Chris Christie isn't even a government official anymore). In May, we were hearing about how senior citizens had to sacrifice themselves for the good of the economy. It's apparently only serious and worthy of sympathy when THEY are personally infected. I care less and less as the hours go by what happens to them. These are horrible, evil people.
Can't verify the veracity, but man is an MD:
It's amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. "I'm sure they know what they're doing".
No. They don't know what they're doing. That's why they all infected each other.
Trump, lucky enough to receive the absolute best care in the world (stuff not available to the general public, for that matter), decides to spit in the face of all those families and go for a fucking joyride while in the midst of being actively symptomatic. It's absolutely obscene. He can't even stay in his hospital room for the required time period, basically because he is bored and needs the attention. It's unforgivable. This is why 215,000 people are dead. Because people like this are in charge. Human beings totally devoid of any empathy or shame. Incapable of feeling either.
Is that a fact? I think making claims like that Trump and his entourage were comically reckless, and they all infected each other, with no idea what they are doing, with next to zero to go on to justify that, is not something that should simply be assumed at face value. I hardly think expressing skepticism of that claim constitutes "making excuses". Basic standards of evidence demands it, actually.
Leave it to election time to turn a 10 second video clip with nothing of importance going on to be the cause of national political outrage and infighting.
Uhh. So... meeting with dozens of people. Without masks or social distancing, resulting in numerous infections... and we're not going to call that reckless? Having indoor rallies where masks were only enforced in the sections that are supposed to be on Camera... that's not reckless? In a pandemic, which has cost 200,000 American's their lives. (50,000 Benghazis. 100 9/11s).
Nothing of importance. If one of those secret service members gets COVID, is it still "not important"? If your answer is "no" - then it's already important, because he put them in harms way for a photo op.
But please. Go ahead and die on the hill that Trump and crew arent being reckless in how they've handled *gestures at everything*.
Edit - other "non comically reckless" actions: Going to a fundraiser in New Jersey after learning that someone he had been in close contact with had COVID. His family refusing to wear masks when they attended the debate (despite being asked to as part of the rules. Whoops. Melania at a minimum probably already had it by then).
We still have NO straight answers on when Trump first tested positive. For all we know, since Chris Wallace has flat-out stated Trump arrived to the debate too late to take the test, he may have had it then. They won't TELL US, so the answer is clearly bad news. At a BARE minimum, Trump went to a buffet lunch fundraiser after being WELL aware he was in direct contact with Hope Hicks. Even given the stone-walling from the White House on this (which is the most charitable way to phrase what it is), we have been able to at LEAST piece that together. ANY responsible person would have isolated pending test results.
Huh? They hosted a party at the White House where very few people were wearing masks, where they were hugging and congratulating each other and kissing each other on the cheek. And several attendees have freaking COVID. Come on!
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories - but there's a lot about this whole situation that doesnt quite add up. We dont know when he first got it (well. We can strongly suspect it was at the ACB gathering in the Rose Garden). I mean to say, we dont know when he first failed a test. That said, he has refused to release the time of his last negative test. That's not a good look. We also have a decent idea of the pathology of the virus. He was tested early Friday morning, and by the end of the day on Friday was already experiencing shortness of breath. Apparently that symptom is usually (but not always) one that presents after several days of being sick.
There are credible reasons to believe he may have not only been sick, but maybe symptomatic for days before his first reported positive test on Friday. We cannot know for sure, but that's mostly because he's stonewalling on evidence.
This is not FDR or JFK hiding their illness from the public. Neither of those men were capable of SPREADING their ailments to anyone else while in office. Moreover, it has been 60 years since that time. I'd like to think we've come far enough to deserve straight answers on the President's health, but we are getting conflicting statements from minute to minute from his own goddamn doctor.
We know he has been on oxygen at least twice. We know he is taking drug therapies that are only reserved for people with serious symptoms. We know he is basically doing bare minimum photo ops that can only be compared to Communist propaganda when a leader is ill (ask some people from Russia, and they'll tell you how similar this all is to when Yeltsin was essentially drinking himself into a stupor on a daily basis). We know COVID-19 quite often plays out with a series of ups and downs, before the patient either gets better, or finally takes a turn for the worst. The lack of transparency is not surprising, but that doesn't make it any less alarming.
The secret service is not the trump government. I did not make an excuses for trump or his horrendous presidency I stated that the secret service is much smarter than someone who has secret sources that knows what the secret service decisions are. Trump not saying he was sick and infecting others should, in my opinion, be looked at from a legal stance as to who can sue him through his negligence and not being transparent about his illness.
If your comment was a blanket general statement then I agree with you one 100%, it is amazing that people are still making excuses for a comically reckless government. If it was directed towards me alone then I hope you see I was not making excuses for trump and that a proper read of my statement should of made that clear.
The secret service has no decision making power here. They have to do what the president tells them. Do you seriously think they could have vetoed his car ride?
Hey, you're not wrong. There have been a number of serious breaches of protocol, but not everyone is going to agree that this implies systemic institutional incompetence, rather than the incompetence of a single person, who can be acted around. I just think the argument is worth making and shouldn't be automatically dismissed.
My opinion is that we did not do the worst in the Western world by any means, but we could have done far, far better. It spread far further than it should have. States have a good measure of autonomy here, and my state of PA took early emergency measures and kept them. The spread of COVID across the U.S has to account for both state and federal incompetence.
The two main metrics being used to track the deadliness of the disease is in the fatality rate among those who get it, and how many die per capita. As you can see, our fatality rate is low, but somehow our deaths per capita are high. This tells me that although we are treating it well, we let it spread to absolutely inexcusable levels.
I sincerely hope this is a global lesson that is learned here.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
We shun and ridicule conspiracy theorists until we need to be one to fit our mind fucked reality.
I am personally of the opinion that some conspiracies contain at least a grain of truth, probably more, and the more one is talked about as being crazy and fringe by mainstream people the more I am convinced that there is something to it.
Yes they could of if it endangered the President or anyone on detail around him, this isn't a Tom Clancy novel this is real life.
We are going to pass EVERY country above us on the deaths per million list except Peru by January (some far earlier than that), while at the same time having more cases and deaths than anyone by an significant margin. There is almost nothing for the US to hang their hat on other than possibly saying medical professionals have done their job as well as possible, and there has been significant advancement in the treatment of the virus. That was never the main concern. The concern was an easily transmissible virus would run unchecked through the country, and deaths would pile up through sheer mathematical overload, rather than the overwhelming lethality of the disease to any individual person. Which is exactly what has happened. And if we want to go with the mythical "herd immunity" strategy that is so popular in certain circles, you are going to have to sacrifice about 3 million people to do so. At this rate, even with half the population determined to never let that happen through their own behavior, we are still going to likely see nearly 500,000 dead by next summer if this shit continues on it's current course, and I see no reason it won't at this rate. Cases are rising in 48 states as of yesterday.
But, but, I heard it from a friends mother who plays cribbage with someone who dated a secret service person in high school.
What are you attempting to convey here?? We are aware the Secret Service has to protect the President. The question is why they aren't simply guarding his hospital door, but are instead forced into a closed space with him so he can go have playtime with some Qanon supporters on the sidewalk. This is not complicated, and this contrarian nonsense doesn't make it a grey area issue. The question at hand is why any human being would do something so unnecessary given the current circumstances, much less the President of the United States. It shows such a fundamental lack of judgement and basic decency that it boggles the mind, or would if it were any other person. This is like defending Veruca Salt.
Werent you the one who said that Trump won the debates against Clinton, despite all available evidence, and cited that for why Trump was going to beat Biden?
Here's that quote, for context:
@WarChiefZeke - You're free to argue the US's response vs other countries - but I dont see of that functions as an argument against the current claim: That Trump and the GOP have been horribly reckless in how they've handled their own safety, and that compromises the safety of those around them. It's bad when 100 college kids have a party and are reckless. it's considerably worse when it's a bunch of 50, 60 and 70 year olds doing it. It's nightmare when they're in charge of the government.
Well, I would give them some credit for keeping the treatment consistently good. The logistical aspects of treating such a massive load of cases of a novel virus across such a huge geographical area and maintaining quality treatment is not nothing. We have the capability, we don't have the leadership, in more than one place.
But yes, getting bogged down just by the sheer scale of the infection rates is exactly the problem here. We would be one of the leaders in treating it right now if we had adopted serious early measures to contain it. Low infection rates, and effective treatment combined.
But this is all irrelevant and I have no desire to argue it, it is simply my opinion about a subject of no import.
Huh? They already hosted an event at the white house without masks and without basic precautions where Trump, the First Lady, several Senators and several other members of White House almost certainly got infected. They already did unsafe stuff! So even if you think, without reason, that the secret service could veto things, they have demonstrated that they won't veto unsafe activities.