Obama won Iowa in 2008 for a couple reasons. One being that he basically lived there for months during the primary (the state isn't really that big). But, more importantly, he won because the cumulative disaster of the Bush Administration finally came to a head in the waning days of the campaign. People stayed on board right up through an American city being left to drown for a full week, but the morning Lehman Brothers imploded and 401ks started vanishing, people started reevaluating their priorities. It's not all that different from an electoral perspective than Trump and COVID-19. He was able to survive constant scandal, but I refuse to submit to the idea that a sitting President can survive this level of incompetence causing a complete upheaval in everyday life. Especially when he shows absolutely ZERO interest in doing anything about it. People were likely overwhelmingly tuning in to that debate the other night wondering "when does this go back to normal, when can my kid go to school, etc etc etc". And instead, they're treated to a Trump aggrievement marathon for 90 minutes, where he didn't just turn the amp to 11, but 111. And it couldn't be more clear he doesn't give a flying fuck about what anyone is going through.
Trump and the First Lady both positive for COVID-19 in the wake of Hope Hicks testing positive earlier in the day. My only comment for now (and I'll do my best to not be an asshole here) is that this was INEVITABLE given his insistence on holding massive rallies when the virus has been moving unabated throughout the country for months, including one in my home state of Minnesota last night. How many people at that rally were infected because of Trump's campaign coming to town?? How many of them are going to die?? Of course Trump got COVID-19. How could he not get it with this behavior?? On a side note, at least the people on the fringes can put their "Trump and Pence have already gotten a vaccine" theory to bed. My main worry now is the Biden team (including Biden himself) who were forced into close contact with these irresponsible psychopaths:
Still a hoax?? Still a liberal plot?? Will his die-hard supporters give a shit about the hundreds of thousands already lost, and those who have overcome it who now have life-long health problems?? Is it just possible that us alarmists were right all along, and this never had to happen if he didn't view simple, basic precautions as an impediment to his grip on power?? I'm only trying so hard to hold in how I really feel here. Because we have been screaming at people to keep their fucking hand off the hot stove for six months. But they have kept touching it anyway. I can't help but agree with this sentiment:
This is a seismic event. It's entirely possible the entire Republican leadership has been exposed. None of them are exactly spring chickens. If Pence and Pelosi happen to also be positive, we could have a genuine leadership crisis on our hands if things fall in a bad way. This is what happens to an irresponsible country with a grossly incompetent leader. The mocking and outright refusal of all safety precautions as a political statement has consequences. Hopefully, Trump survives the virus. But his Presidency is over as surely as Carter's was when the Iran Hostage rescue mission failed. It's an encapsulating moment that conveys nothing but total failure. It also means Amy Coney Barrett has been possibly exposed, as well as the Senators who met with her. There will be no hearings before the election.
Allegedly Trump tested positive yesterday BUT didn’t want to cancel his rally. Let that sink in.
This absolute indifference to the well-being of his OWN SUPPORTERS is why drumming up any sense of genuine sympathy is a Sysophean task. I'm already seeing people suggest Biden should pull down his ads and my response is "you gotta be fucking kidding me". Just another example of how everything related to Trump is spun into upwards failure. Jackass the 45th spends 6 months letting the virus ravage the country, and when the chickens come home to roost, the Democratic candidate is supposed to unilaterally disarm. Hell to the no.
Johnson’s support grew when he contracted Covid, everyone rallied around and didn’t dare criticise him, his popularity was high, it was all “when he’s better we’ll be back on track” (as if he could organise a barn dance on a farm) and this allowed him to push through some problematic measures - hoping the same doesn’t happen in the US
@BallpointMan "Some news about ad buys are coming in, and the GOP is investing a LOT of money into the Kansas senate race of all things. They're worried they'll lose in Kansas."
A valid fear. We've been pretty traditionally red as far as I can remember (maybe slightly purple?), but we had a big blue shift during the local elections after Trump's presidency started. I we elected both a liberal governor and senator.
@BallpointMan "Some news about ad buys are coming in, and the GOP is investing a LOT of money into the Kansas senate race of all things. They're worried they'll lose in Kansas."
A valid fear. We've been pretty traditionally red as far as I can remember (maybe slightly purple?), but we had a big blue shift during the local elections after Trump's presidency started. I we elected both a liberal governor and senator.
That's right - I forgot you live there. It's pretty wild how the shift there has gone. It's still a red state, but the Democrats seem to know how to run good candidates that can appeal across a wide spectrum of voters.
My apologies in advance for all the extra political ads you're about to start hearing : P
Johnson’s support grew when he contracted Covid, everyone rallied around and didn’t dare criticise him, his popularity was high, it was all “when he’s better we’ll be back on track” (as if he could organise a barn dance on a farm) and this allowed him to push through some problematic measures - hoping the same doesn’t happen in the US
Yeah. I'm wondering how this will work here too. I'm sure there will be a softening of coverage for him because of this, but then - there's such a start level of hypocrisy here that I dont think it'll go very far. His poll numbers will probably be less bad for the next few weeks.
Edit - found this moderately instructive. The following tweets do say that his saw a personal popularity boost during his illness, though.
Kansas actually has quite a history with going back-and-forth on political beliefs. They were once known for running third party candidates, encouraging unionization, government ownership of important businesses, etc.
I know a lot of people from Kansas. The Flint Hills are a great place.
@BallpointMan Thanks for the poll details, that’s interesting and probably right, there was at the least though a strong sense that he could not be criticised in any way whilst ill, that questioning his government’s decision making was unpatriotic and that when he was better any foul ups would be magically put right - if replicated now, not ideal circumstances going into an election period
Edit: there was also a lot of painful war imagery, he will “beat” the virus, “he’s a fighter and so will pull through” etc as if dying of Covid is a failure of willpower, which is ridiculous, and he will have got top notch treatment
I kind of like that about the UK, honestly. There are certain standards of respectability in politics, it seems. Perhaps it goes too far in some cases, but i'd still prefer it to the ruthless tribalism that passes for politics in the United States.
@WarChiefZeke Parliament was prorogued last year so it couldn’t exercise its democratic functions, it has just now voted to break international law (and admitted it, having literally won an election off saying it would do the opposite) and the home office has been researching the use of wave machines to stop refugees crossing The Channel, as well as the possibility of processing refugees on a volcanic island.
Also gatherings of more than 6 have been generally banned but you can host a grouse shoot for 29 people. There is a 10pm curfew in bars, apart from the one in Parliament.
The government’s chief SPAD broke lockdown with covid, drove hundreds of miles to get “childcare” and then popped out later for a 30 - 45 minute drive each way to a scenic beauty spot on his wife’s birthday to “check his eyesight” and then didn’t resign.
But yeah it’s all about fair play in politics here right now.
@BallpointMan Thanks for the poll details, that’s interesting and probably right, there was at the least though a strong sense that he could not be criticised in any way whilst ill, that questioning his government’s decision making was unpatriotic and that when he was better any foul ups would be magically put right - if replicated now, not ideal circumstances going into an election period
Edit: there was also a lot of painful war imagery, he will “beat” the virus, “he’s a fighter and so will pull through” etc as if dying of Covid is a failure of willpower, which is ridiculous, and he will have got top notch treatment
I'll bite. Trump getting COVID-19, despite having EVERY advantage to not do so (such as instant, rapid testing for anyone in his orbit) is not going to be seen as a sympathetic event, when his campaign and most fervent supporters have adopted anti-precautionary measures as a rallying flag. Moreover, the President of Notre Dame and Senator Mike Lee are now also positive. Which strongly suggests that the event that triggered this was the Supreme Court rollout, where no one was socially distanced, and no one wore masks, and were hobnobbing like it was any other time in history. To quote our President, "it is what it is".
Indeed - his personal popularity increased significantly more than the government's at that time, though it's slipped back since. He's still more popular than the government as a whole, but that margin has decreased over the last year - apart from the period of his illness.
@WarChiefZeke Parliament was prorogued last year, has just voted to break international law and the home office has been researching the use of wave machines to stop refugees crossing The Channel
Personally, i'm in favor of most non-lethal methods of border control, can't comment on that one in particular, but most importantly, it starts with the ones encouraging it, who need to be punished. The fact that certain political parties have allowed and encouraged worldwide human trafficking across borders to be used as cannon fodder for their benefit is a crime of the highest order and most politicians in favor of it need to be jailed, in my opinion. They circumvent their own nations laws, they are responsible for countless acts of cruelty in the process they encourage, they use proxy organizations to evade accountability. People need to be put away for life over it all.
@BallpointMan "That's right - I forgot you live there. It's pretty wild how the shift there has gone. It's still a red state, but the Democrats seem to know how to run good candidates that can appeal across a wide spectrum of voters.
My apologies in advance for all the extra political ads you're about to start hearing : P"
I'm still not sure HOW we did it. I forget which it was, but one of our appointed officials was not only the first native american, but also the first openly gay person elected to the position. I want to say it was our senator.
As for ads, its one reason why I don't watch tv. But I'm not sure what MORE ads would look like. I've been getting weekly Trump mail (emblazoned with FINAL NOTICE REPLY NOW on every single envelope), as well as daily emails. Are they gonna start beaming ads into my dreams now? Are we getting into Futurama territory?
@WarChiefZeke Parliament was prorogued last year, has just voted to break international law and the home office has been researching the use of wave machines to stop refugees crossing The Channel
Personally, i'm in favor of most non-lethal methods of border control, can't comment on that one in particular, but most importantly, it starts with the ones encouraging it, who need to be punished. The fact that certain political parties have allowed and encouraged worldwide human trafficking across borders to be used as cannon fodder for their benefit is a crime of the highest order and most politicians in favor of it need to be jailed, in my opinion. They circumvent their own nations laws, they are responsible for countless acts of cruelty in the process they encourage, they use proxy organizations to evade accountability. People need to be put away for life over it all.
Politicians advocating for policies you think cause harm need to be jailed? Again, some insanely anti-democratic rhetoric.
I'm going to go ahead and point out that the notion that any political party (and obviously the target here is the Democratic party) "allowed and encouraged" human trafficking is flat-out fake.
That's not how I read the post - it seems to me to be arguing against human trafficking (as distinct from asylum seeking) and criticizing politicians that encourage that. As such it doesn't seem to me to be making a party political point.
There's a spectrum of political involvement in movements of asylum seekers. At one end you've got actions like those of Turkey where they actually forced some refugees across the border into Greece to make a political point. There's also those politicians who encourage such movements as a means of destabilizing other countries, or just to share in the profits to be made. Further up the spectrum there are certainly some politicians who are happy to see asylum seekers use human traffickers and dangerous (and illegal) forms of entry to countries - for instance with the idea that if enough of them drown on a sea crossing that will discourage others. That's a similar sort of philosophy to the family separation policy the US had for a while, which most people on this thread (rightly I think) condemned.
From past posts I don't think I agree precisely with @WarChiefZeke's views on what is appropriate in relation to the extent of immigration, but I think there's a fair amount of common ground in relation to human trafficking. A lack of control over asylum applications allows illegal routes to flourish, but that's ultimately a cost to asylum seekers - in both financial and risk terms. I'd need a lot of convincing that politicians who encourage or turn a blind eye to such a situation were acting from the best of motives.
Yeah this is pretty ominous. I admit I don't like the guy, but I don't think anything good could happen from the sort of chaos that would ensue if President Trump was incapacitated or worse, dies from this. Fingers crossed...
Yeah this is pretty ominous. I admit I don't like the guy, but I don't think anything good could happen from the sort of chaos that would ensue if President Trump was incapacitated or worse, dies from this. Fingers crossed...
It's anyone guess what's going on here. I do tend to believe Trump would *not* want to be hospitalized for several days like this unless it was totally necessary. Maybe I'm off on that. I hope I am.
Look - I hate Trump's administration (and I try not to hate many things). I strongly, strongly dislike him as a person. I dont want him to die/suffer or even be inconvenienced by COVID. I hope he's healthy soon.
That's not how I read the post - it seems to me to be arguing against human trafficking (as distinct from asylum seeking) and criticizing politicians that encourage that. As such it doesn't seem to me to be making a party political point.
There's a spectrum of political involvement in movements of asylum seekers. At one end you've got actions like those of Turkey where they actually forced some refugees across the border into Greece to make a political point. There's also those politicians who encourage such movements as a means of destabilizing other countries, or just to share in the profits to be made. Further up the spectrum there are certainly some politicians who are happy to see asylum seekers use human traffickers and dangerous (and illegal) forms of entry to countries - for instance with the idea that if enough of them drown on a sea crossing that will discourage others. That's a similar sort of philosophy to the family separation policy the US had for a while, which most people on this thread (rightly I think) condemned.
From past posts I don't think I agree precisely with @WarChiefZeke's views on what is appropriate in relation to the extent of immigration, but I think there's a fair amount of common ground in relation to human trafficking. A lack of control over asylum applications allows illegal routes to flourish, but that's ultimately a cost to asylum seekers - in both financial and risk terms. I'd need a lot of convincing that politicians who encourage or turn a blind eye to such a situation were acting from the best of motives.
Precisely. Erdogan was who I was thinking of specifically, since he is the most blatant with his open threats to use migrants as a political tool against Europe, but obviously, there are more who are perfectly happy to encourage it for all sorts of reasons.
I think an American politician who doesn't believe in trying to curb illegal migration is encouraging human trafficking by default, since the two overlap at the expense of the migrants themselves who are easily exploited, but as you said, there is a spectrum to these things, and this is at the lower end, and isn't partisan. GOP higher-ups get caught exploiting illegal labor all the time.
I do hope Trump ends up okay, I try not to wish ill on anyone, and it's nice to see we can all agree on that. Many places are openly celebratory at the thought of ill befalling people they don't like, and that has always left a bad taste in my mouth.
I would ask for a source or evidence for the claim, but really, it would be better to just not throw out random accusations to begin with.
Is that what's making the rounds in conservative circles now? "Democrats support human trafficking?"
Its a thing, and has been a thing for a long time. The Republican modus operandi is to assign every crime and evil they can think of to whoever their opponents are. Its a side effect of the conservative mindset of threat detection and elimination (which traditionally has made conservative president's effective in war time) with the fact that Republicans don't really have a platform other than "stop the bad things of the other guys". Alos, Pizzagate.
Yeah this is pretty ominous. I admit I don't like the guy, but I don't think anything good could happen from the sort of chaos that would ensue if President Trump was incapacitated or worse, dies from this. Fingers crossed...
It's anyone guess what's going on here. I do tend to believe Trump would *not* want to be hospitalized for several days like this unless it was totally necessary. Maybe I'm off on that. I hope I am.
Look - I hate Trump's administration (and I try not to hate many things). I strongly, strongly dislike him as a person. I dont want him to die/suffer or even be inconvenienced by COVID. I hope he's healthy soon.
I want to agree with this, and as a Christian I absolutely should, but I can't stop thinking that the world is better off without him in it.
Now Senator Thom Tillis has tested positive as well. It now seems pretty clear the vector for this particular outbreak among conservative politicians can be directly tied to the event held to unveil the Supreme Court nominee. Both Mike Lee and Tillis are on the Judiciary Committee. They now must both quarantine for almost two weeks. Republicans only hold a 2 seat majority on that committee. Any chances for a pre-lame duck confirmation are now up in flames. And it's all self-inflicted. Their reckless dismissal of the virus caused the current situation. Chuck Grassley is also on the committee. He is 87 years old. And has met within the last few days with one of the Senators who tested positive. Grassley is apparently not getting a test. I'm struggling to understand how you are supposed to feel obligated to feel sympathy for people who are deliberately putting their hand on a hot stove after being told half a dozen times not to. If Tillis and Lee DO show up before the recommended guidelines expire, they are saying nothing less than they are willing to KILL their fellow Senators to ram the pick through.
Comments
Still a hoax?? Still a liberal plot?? Will his die-hard supporters give a shit about the hundreds of thousands already lost, and those who have overcome it who now have life-long health problems?? Is it just possible that us alarmists were right all along, and this never had to happen if he didn't view simple, basic precautions as an impediment to his grip on power?? I'm only trying so hard to hold in how I really feel here. Because we have been screaming at people to keep their fucking hand off the hot stove for six months. But they have kept touching it anyway. I can't help but agree with this sentiment:
This is a seismic event. It's entirely possible the entire Republican leadership has been exposed. None of them are exactly spring chickens. If Pence and Pelosi happen to also be positive, we could have a genuine leadership crisis on our hands if things fall in a bad way. This is what happens to an irresponsible country with a grossly incompetent leader. The mocking and outright refusal of all safety precautions as a political statement has consequences. Hopefully, Trump survives the virus. But his Presidency is over as surely as Carter's was when the Iran Hostage rescue mission failed. It's an encapsulating moment that conveys nothing but total failure. It also means Amy Coney Barrett has been possibly exposed, as well as the Senators who met with her. There will be no hearings before the election.
This absolute indifference to the well-being of his OWN SUPPORTERS is why drumming up any sense of genuine sympathy is a Sysophean task. I'm already seeing people suggest Biden should pull down his ads and my response is "you gotta be fucking kidding me". Just another example of how everything related to Trump is spun into upwards failure. Jackass the 45th spends 6 months letting the virus ravage the country, and when the chickens come home to roost, the Democratic candidate is supposed to unilaterally disarm. Hell to the no.
A valid fear. We've been pretty traditionally red as far as I can remember (maybe slightly purple?), but we had a big blue shift during the local elections after Trump's presidency started. I we elected both a liberal governor and senator.
That's right - I forgot you live there. It's pretty wild how the shift there has gone. It's still a red state, but the Democrats seem to know how to run good candidates that can appeal across a wide spectrum of voters.
My apologies in advance for all the extra political ads you're about to start hearing : P
Yeah. I'm wondering how this will work here too. I'm sure there will be a softening of coverage for him because of this, but then - there's such a start level of hypocrisy here that I dont think it'll go very far. His poll numbers will probably be less bad for the next few weeks.
Edit - found this moderately instructive. The following tweets do say that his saw a personal popularity boost during his illness, though.
I know a lot of people from Kansas. The Flint Hills are a great place.
Edit: there was also a lot of painful war imagery, he will “beat” the virus, “he’s a fighter and so will pull through” etc as if dying of Covid is a failure of willpower, which is ridiculous, and he will have got top notch treatment
Also gatherings of more than 6 have been generally banned but you can host a grouse shoot for 29 people. There is a 10pm curfew in bars, apart from the one in Parliament.
The government’s chief SPAD broke lockdown with covid, drove hundreds of miles to get “childcare” and then popped out later for a 30 - 45 minute drive each way to a scenic beauty spot on his wife’s birthday to “check his eyesight” and then didn’t resign.
But yeah it’s all about fair play in politics here right now.
I'll bite. Trump getting COVID-19, despite having EVERY advantage to not do so (such as instant, rapid testing for anyone in his orbit) is not going to be seen as a sympathetic event, when his campaign and most fervent supporters have adopted anti-precautionary measures as a rallying flag. Moreover, the President of Notre Dame and Senator Mike Lee are now also positive. Which strongly suggests that the event that triggered this was the Supreme Court rollout, where no one was socially distanced, and no one wore masks, and were hobnobbing like it was any other time in history. To quote our President, "it is what it is".
Indeed - his personal popularity increased significantly more than the government's at that time, though it's slipped back since. He's still more popular than the government as a whole, but that margin has decreased over the last year - apart from the period of his illness.
Personally, i'm in favor of most non-lethal methods of border control, can't comment on that one in particular, but most importantly, it starts with the ones encouraging it, who need to be punished. The fact that certain political parties have allowed and encouraged worldwide human trafficking across borders to be used as cannon fodder for their benefit is a crime of the highest order and most politicians in favor of it need to be jailed, in my opinion. They circumvent their own nations laws, they are responsible for countless acts of cruelty in the process they encourage, they use proxy organizations to evade accountability. People need to be put away for life over it all.
My apologies in advance for all the extra political ads you're about to start hearing : P"
I'm still not sure HOW we did it. I forget which it was, but one of our appointed officials was not only the first native american, but also the first openly gay person elected to the position. I want to say it was our senator.
As for ads, its one reason why I don't watch tv. But I'm not sure what MORE ads would look like. I've been getting weekly Trump mail (emblazoned with FINAL NOTICE REPLY NOW on every single envelope), as well as daily emails. Are they gonna start beaming ads into my dreams now? Are we getting into Futurama territory?
Politicians advocating for policies you think cause harm need to be jailed? Again, some insanely anti-democratic rhetoric.
Is that what's making the rounds in conservative circles now? "Democrats support human trafficking?"
There's a spectrum of political involvement in movements of asylum seekers. At one end you've got actions like those of Turkey where they actually forced some refugees across the border into Greece to make a political point. There's also those politicians who encourage such movements as a means of destabilizing other countries, or just to share in the profits to be made. Further up the spectrum there are certainly some politicians who are happy to see asylum seekers use human traffickers and dangerous (and illegal) forms of entry to countries - for instance with the idea that if enough of them drown on a sea crossing that will discourage others. That's a similar sort of philosophy to the family separation policy the US had for a while, which most people on this thread (rightly I think) condemned.
From past posts I don't think I agree precisely with @WarChiefZeke's views on what is appropriate in relation to the extent of immigration, but I think there's a fair amount of common ground in relation to human trafficking. A lack of control over asylum applications allows illegal routes to flourish, but that's ultimately a cost to asylum seekers - in both financial and risk terms. I'd need a lot of convincing that politicians who encourage or turn a blind eye to such a situation were acting from the best of motives.
Yeah this is pretty ominous. I admit I don't like the guy, but I don't think anything good could happen from the sort of chaos that would ensue if President Trump was incapacitated or worse, dies from this. Fingers crossed...
It's anyone guess what's going on here. I do tend to believe Trump would *not* want to be hospitalized for several days like this unless it was totally necessary. Maybe I'm off on that. I hope I am.
Look - I hate Trump's administration (and I try not to hate many things). I strongly, strongly dislike him as a person. I dont want him to die/suffer or even be inconvenienced by COVID. I hope he's healthy soon.
I think we haven't heard a peep from him is due to not wanting more people to wish him death in his comments.
I am also surprised it took this long to get him admitted into a hospital, symptoms or not.
Precisely. Erdogan was who I was thinking of specifically, since he is the most blatant with his open threats to use migrants as a political tool against Europe, but obviously, there are more who are perfectly happy to encourage it for all sorts of reasons.
I think an American politician who doesn't believe in trying to curb illegal migration is encouraging human trafficking by default, since the two overlap at the expense of the migrants themselves who are easily exploited, but as you said, there is a spectrum to these things, and this is at the lower end, and isn't partisan. GOP higher-ups get caught exploiting illegal labor all the time.
But seriously, this whole thing was inevitable. He's been so pigheaded and stubborn, he's basically been pro-vrius this whole time.
Its a thing, and has been a thing for a long time. The Republican modus operandi is to assign every crime and evil they can think of to whoever their opponents are. Its a side effect of the conservative mindset of threat detection and elimination (which traditionally has made conservative president's effective in war time) with the fact that Republicans don't really have a platform other than "stop the bad things of the other guys". Alos, Pizzagate.
I want to agree with this, and as a Christian I absolutely should, but I can't stop thinking that the world is better off without him in it.