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Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition has been released! Visit nwn.beamdog.com to make an order. NWN:EE FAQ is available.
Soundtracks for BG:EE, SoD, BG2:EE, IWD:EE, PST:EE are now available in the Beamdog store.
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

BGII:EE and IWD:EE are back on Google Play

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Comments

  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Uhm they used Google's feature that then violated their(Google) updated policy. Google created this monster.

    Allegedly, the requirements to be GDPR complaint were all known before this, from what they've (beamdog) said, their token effort wasn't close.
    shabadoo wrote: »
    I meant no judgements, just offered an opinion that if this is such a major issue to you, You should be a happy person. If your offended by being judged as happy... I just don't know how to respond to that

    I meant no judgement, immediately cops to judging someone, right......

    You're changing your narrative here. You essentially said "if your life isn't perfect you have no right to complain about this, you should be putting your energy into fixing "real" problems". Otherwise your priorities are skewed.

    That's just wrong, ascribing to the philosophy means that you believe that as long as their are "big issues" in the world, little issues don't matter and mentioning them is overreacting.
    shabadoo wrote: »
    It's a crappy situation that has been handled poorly, but I think repeated posting of essentially the same thing is pointless. Yes, social media is a powerful force in today's world. If this had been rushed to please your timeline and released prematurely, you'd be complaining that they didn't give it the proper attention.

    Its absolutely your right to think it's pointless, what you don't get to do, is then say people with dissenting opinions have some kind of issue, or scewed priorities.

    You don't know how I would have reacted had this been "rushed" more judgement with little knowledge there..

    This situation is something that needed to be rushed as it removed access to everyone's game without warning.

    It should have been delivered separately from the 2.6 update and 64 bit conversion, both are important, but this own goal should have been prioritised
    "shabadoo wrote: »
    A lot of people claim to be done with Beamdog, yet they don't leave. They want to berate the perceived villain in this story into bloody submission Where as I would simply walk away, writing off the whole thing as a learning experience. But that's me, not you or anyone else.

    I'll leave when beamdog return my product, they are the villain in this story, both through their original incompetence and then their poor handling of it.

    I don't particularly care about the forum outside of this issue, I hadn't posted until this issue raised its head and I likely won't once it's been resolved.

    If it makes you happy to portray yourself as better than folk who are (legitimately) complaining, then fill your boots.
    "shabadoo wrote: »
    To be honest, there are problems with the Android client that prevent me( this device to be precise) from running some Beamdog games decently at all. It took weeks to get any kind of response from support, and I will no longer purchase Beamdog from Google because of it. But I still come to the forum, you folks are neat-o. But i don't constantly complain about it. Ever been around someone who just whines and whines about the same thing so much that even though they may be right you just wanna yell at them to stfu? Or maybe remind them to smile?! That's all I was saying
    .

    Reminding someone with a genuine grievence over something to smile is incredibly patronising.

    If people complaining about an issue (not whining) in a thread dedicated to that issue causes you such distress, you could avoid that one thread, rather than try and paint yourself as better than those complaining, or making snide remarks about priorities and real world problems.

    You don't get to tell them to STFu because that would be in breach of the forum rules.

    "shabadoo wrote: »
    I'm surprised you haven't turned it around on me. As in don't you(me) have anything better to do than tell me what to feel? Lol because i actually do, but you've made this interesting.

    Telling you to make a better use of your time would be falling into the same logical fallacy you seem so fond of.

    I've told you don't have a right to tell anyone how they should use their time or feel over an issue, because you lack both the actual authority and moral authority to do so.



    lefreutRaduziel
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
    And when questioned about refunds they gave absolutely incorrect information, so what faith should we have in them?

    We gave the information we could give - we don't handle Google Play purchases. The decision not to provide refunds and forward the players back to us, while being under their authority, is unfortunate.

    fetito666Whisp3lolien
  • PirriePirrie Member Posts: 26
    @wallaceprime You've made it clear that you want your money back and Beamdog have made it clear they are not in a position to do so. You now argue everything in your obsession against Beamdog.

    Prove me wrong, prove you are not obsessed and don't reply moaning that we are all wrong and you are right like some religious zelot.

    kaja8
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 136
    edited July 5
    Yes, Wallace, of course. For all your good sense you still can't tell the difference between telling someone how to feel and suggesting that things aren't that bad? I meant no judgement can also mean that whatever judgement YOU feel from me was not intended. You assume a lot. If I've aggrieved you so, then...
    I'm sorry i suggested that you should smile. Be a miserable sot over some game. Personally I don't care, just trying to offer a little sunshine into a dark thread.

    EDIT: You are correct that I've made an assumption if other people lives. I really do assume that EVERYONE has more important issues in their lives than a couple video games. I don't apologize for that either.

    Post edited by shabadoo on
  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    edited July 5
    Pirrie wrote: »
    @wallaceprime You've made it clear that you want your money back and Beamdog have made it clear they are not in a position to do so. You now argue everything in your obsession against Beamdog.

    I've not made it clear I want my money back, I've made it clear I want either, the game returned or a refund.

    That is something they are obligated to do and we've not had a guarantee that the game will be returned to those who paid for it, only that they will get it back on Google and ""hope" it will be returned to those who've purchased it before.

    If Beamdogs position is that they cannot offer refunds in any situation, when they've signed up to a contract that says they must in certain situations, then they're opening themselves up to legal issues and all of their games being yanked.
    Pirrie wrote: »
    Prove me wrong, prove you are not obsessed and don't reply moaning that we are all wrong and you are right like some religious zelot.

    I will complain about incompetence any way I want keeping within the forum rules.

    I don't owe you anything, if this is your view of religious zealotry, you need to wake up

  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 653
    Hi @wallaceprime
    Let me get this straight.

    You are here at this site to keep pressure on Beamdog for a fix? Your assumption is that they can’t afford negative press, so they will cave in eventually?

    Further that you are only present in this thread because the rest of the forum Is not interesting?

    I ask not out of resent, but out of curiosity. Even if I may qualify as being part of the Beamdog police (liked the metaphor, so I will keep it). I love the games, and the EE versions - and I am quite vocal about my love. So at present we can agree on disagreeing - but later who knows.

    You free time is your to spend. If you want to stay active in this thread until a fix is issued, it’s ok. Then perhaps it’s goodbye then within weeks (who knows really). But I think it’s a shame...

    You obviously care about the EE games, and this forum is a great place for modders, artist and players. Just coming here for complaints and leaving when you get your way is your choice, I just don’t get it.

    An old saying about politics comes to mind:
    don’t threaten about leaving, threaten them with staying. And I dare say, that the forum is worth your stay.

    ZaghoulspacejawsSkatanPokota
  • MaurvirMaurvir Member Posts: 215
    edited July 5
    I say this only because I care, but I would like to point out that there are a lot of decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

    shabadoo
  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    Hi @wallaceprime
    Let me get this straight.

    You are here at this site to keep pressure on Beamdog for a fix? Your assumption is that they can’t afford negative press, so they will cave in eventually?

    Further that you are only present in this thread because the rest of the forum Is not interesting?


    I ask not out of resent, but out of curiosity. Even if I may qualify as being part of the Beamdog police (liked the metaphor, so I will keep it). I love the games, and the EE versions - and I am quite vocal about my love. So at present we can agree on disagreeing - but later who knows.

    Correct, I dont particularly care about engaging in forums, except as a tool to resolve issues, its not personal, I just dont have any interest in discussing things on forums
    You free time is your to spend. If you want to stay active in this thread until a fix is issued, it’s ok. Then perhaps it’s goodbye then within weeks (who knows really). But I think it’s a shame...

    You obviously care about the EE games, and this forum is a great place for modders, artist and players. Just coming here for complaints and leaving when you get your way is your choice, I just don’t get it.

    An old saying about politics comes to mind:
    don’t threaten about leaving, threaten them with staying. And I dare say, that the forum is worth your stay.

    I do care a great deal about the Infinity engine games, I could take or leave the enhanced editions, except they allow me to play on a mobile device (in theory).

    Would I be a bit more engaged if earlier communication had been better handled, who knows? but now I've no interest in further engagement with Beamdog outside of resolving this issue.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Yes, Wallace, of course. For all your good sense you still can't tell the difference between telling someone how to feel and suggesting that things aren't that bad? I meant no judgement can also mean that whatever judgement YOU feel from me was not intended. You assume a lot. If I've aggrieved you so, then...
    I'm sorry i suggested that you should smile. Be a miserable sot over some game. Personally I don't care, just trying to offer a little sunshine into a dark thread.

    You didnt just suggest things werent that bad, to go back to the start you said "maybe your energy should be directed towards solving real life problems, which is the absolute cast iron example of the fallacy of relative privation.

    shabadoo wrote: »
    Smile! If this is what you've got to complain about, your life must be pretty damn good. Otherwise, maybe your energy should be directed into solving real life problems.

    The threads dark, because it covers a topic which a lot of people are annoyed about. Telling someone to smile doesnt add "sunshine". Coupled with the early suggestion that folk focus on "real world problems" its just insulting.

    lefreut
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 552
    edited July 5
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Uhm they used Google's feature that then violated their(Google) updated policy. Google created this monster.
    Allegedly, the requirements to be GDPR complaint were all known before this, from what they've (beamdog) said, their token effort wasn't close.
    Counterpoint - the token effort, which was to stop using said feature, by itself was enough to fix... except that in the process of making the token effort Beamdog discovered that they needed to completely change their workflow in order to prevent this from happening again six months from now.

    StummvonBordwehr
  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    Pokota wrote: »
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Uhm they used Google's feature that then violated their(Google) updated policy. Google created this monster.
    Allegedly, the requirements to be GDPR complaint were all known before this, from what they've (beamdog) said, their token effort wasn't close.
    Counterpoint - the token effort, which was to stop using said feature, by itself was enough to fix... except that in the process of making the token effort Beamdog discovered that they needed to completely change their workflow in order to prevent this from happening again six months from now.

    Sorry I meant their token effort of GDPR compliance was to inckude a link to the policy rather than an embedded warning rather than the simple fix.

    This doesn't come close to compliance with GDPR, regardless of what googles new policy says.

    GDPR isn't new and compliance isn't that hard, if they'd done it properly the first time, this wouldn't have happened.

    Yes there are other problems down the line and they should be allocating resources appropriately to deal with them

  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 653
    Pokota wrote: »
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Uhm they used Google's feature that then violated their(Google) updated policy. Google created this monster.
    Allegedly, the requirements to be GDPR complaint were all known before this, from what they've (beamdog) said, their token effort wasn't close.
    Counterpoint - the token effort, which was to stop using said feature, by itself was enough to fix... except that in the process of making the token effort Beamdog discovered that they needed to completely change their workflow in order to prevent this from happening again six months from now.

    Sorry I meant their token effort of GDPR compliance was to inckude a link to the policy rather than an embedded warning rather than the simple fix.

    This doesn't come close to compliance with GDPR, regardless of what googles new policy says.

    GDPR isn't new and compliance isn't that hard, if they'd done it properly the first time, this wouldn't have happened.

    Yes there are other problems down the line and they should be allocating resources appropriately to deal with them

    It may have started as a token fix, but it ended in a not so token 64 bit rebuild. I appreciate that, and it goes to show the commitment to their games.

    An btw if they hadn’t started with a token fix, this thread would have been jam packed with people fuming about Beamdog over complicating a fix. A fix should always be as simple as possible I’d reckon.

    I’d know we don’t agree on this, but there is another way of seeing the same picture.

    kaja8
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 136
    Yes, I must admit that saying to focus on real world is a bit insulting. It was not meant to sound that way, and I do apologize if you(or anyone else) were actually insulted by it. I wanted to show the contrast between games and life.
    I understand why it's a dark thread, that's why I tried to offer a smile.

    StummvonBordwehrkaja8lolien
  • Skree83Skree83 Member Posts: 12
    Come on, guys, really. Chill. Wait till it's back online and then tell others here so that if someone didn't already notice can go and download his games again.

    There really isn't any more reason to bitch around.

    Royal2003kaja8
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 552
    edited July 5
    Pokota wrote: »
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Uhm they used Google's feature that then violated their(Google) updated policy. Google created this monster.
    Allegedly, the requirements to be GDPR complaint were all known before this, from what they've (beamdog) said, their token effort wasn't close.
    Counterpoint - the token effort, which was to stop using said feature, by itself was enough to fix... except that in the process of making the token effort Beamdog discovered that they needed to completely change their workflow in order to prevent this from happening again six months from now.

    Sorry I meant their token effort of GDPR compliance was to inckude a link to the policy rather than an embedded warning rather than the simple fix.

    This doesn't come close to compliance with GDPR, regardless of what googles new policy says.

    GDPR isn't new and compliance isn't that hard, if they'd done it properly the first time, this wouldn't have happened.

    Yes there are other problems down the line and they should be allocating resources appropriately to deal with them

    According to what has been said, the offense wasn't even with GDPR, it was with the App Store's data collection policies policy - they were collecting telemetry data for diagnostic purposes in a way that Google now requires a discrete in-app data collection policy indicating that it's collecting that specific data. As of 2.6 they will no longer be collecting that telemetry data, meaning that it's only the GDPR that they need to be wary of.

    Edit: Okay, yeah, that is technically noncompliant with the GDPR in that they weren't fully disclosing what was being collected or how it was being used, but at the time of 2.5's release the GDPR had not yet been declared by the ABA as being in force outside of the European Union, so Beamdog was not yet required to be compliant with it - Canada's not in the European Union.

    Question: what all was in the 2.5 build to ensure GDPR compliance? Was there anything given how long ago 2.5 was released? And is that on all platforms or just certain ones?

    Also, can I just say how silly it is that America is telling Canada that they have to follow a law passed in Europe?

    shabadooStummvonBordwehr
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 136
    Pokota wrote:
    Also, can I just say how silly it is that America is telling Canada that they have to follow a law passed in Europe?
    Oh good, it's not just me that sees that.

  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 6,680
    If the Canadian wants to do business in the EU/UK and they are going through the American company to do the sales, it isn’t silly in the slightest.

    I disagree with the “Beamdog should have seen the GDPR coming.” The game was released in November 2015, 6 months from the bill actually being discussed and it wasn’t till 2018 till was actually implemented.

    I do think this now has to do more with the 2.6 delay than anything else. It 2.6 actually came out when it did on all platforms I don’t think this would have been an issue.

    StummvonBordwehrshabadoo
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 136
    The reasoning is sound. It still sounds strange that country A tells country C to obey the laws of country B.

  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 552
    edited July 6
    deltago wrote: »
    If the Canadian wants to do business in the EU/UK and they are going through the American company to do the sales, it isn’t silly in the slightest.

    I disagree with the “Beamdog should have seen the GDPR coming.” The game was released in November 2015, 6 months from the bill actually being discussed and it wasn’t till 2018 till was actually implemented.

    I do think this now has to do more with the 2.6 delay than anything else. It 2.6 actually came out when it did on all platforms I don’t think this would have been an issue.

    It would be one thing if Google was telling Beamdog that they have to follow the GDPR if they want to do business in Europe.

    This is American Lawyers telling the entire nation of Canada (really the rest of the world, but in this specific instance it's Canada) that an European Law is in effect globally. Regardless on if their product is available in the international market or not (which, given it applies to software, is nearly always true anyway).

    Please note: I don't take issue with the GDPR itself. I agree with it. I take issue with the fact that we're not letting each nation implement their own version of it.

    StummvonBordwehrPrince_Raymond
  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 136
    Thank you @Enrahim, my position wasn't that the reality was silly, but that on the surface it appeared so. One nation telling other nations to follow a third nation's law. I, for one, welcome stricter protection. Privacy is an important issue, and will only become more difficult to ensure as technology advances.

  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    edited July 7
    deltago wrote: »
    If the Canadian wants to do business in the EU/UK and they are going through the American company to do the sales, it isn’t silly in the slightest.

    I disagree with the “Beamdog should have seen the GDPR coming.” The game was released in November 2015, 6 months from the bill actually being discussed and it wasn’t till 2018 till was actually implemented.

    I do think this now has to do more with the 2.6 delay than anything else. It 2.6 actually came out when it did on all platforms I don’t think this would have been an issue.

    To be fair, GDPR was trailed for a very long time and all businesses were given a good lead in to sort there practices out if they handled personal data (and operated within Europe).

    *Edit having checked, it was adopted in 2016 and enforced in 2018, so that's 2 years of leadtime.

    They should have prioritised a fix for this since they were collecting personal data, if only to protect themselves.

    Rather than wait till the game gets yanked because someone reports it.

    The fine for misuse of personal data is up to 4% of company turnover or £20 million which evers greater.

  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Yes, I must admit that saying to focus on real world is a bit insulting. It was not meant to sound that way, and I do apologize if you(or anyone else) were actually insulted by it. I wanted to show the contrast between games and life.
    I understand why it's a dark thread, that's why I tried to offer a smile.

    That's fair I apologise for reacting with vitriol. I don't like how beamdog have handled this, but it wasn't necessary to vent on you and others.

    I will keep pressure on this thread as I think it's an effective tool

    kaja8StummvonBordwehr
  • wallaceprimewallaceprime Member Posts: 57
    Pokota wrote: »
    Pokota wrote: »
    shabadoo wrote: »
    Uhm they used Google's feature that then violated their(Google) updated policy. Google created this monster.
    Allegedly, the requirements to be GDPR complaint were all known before this, from what they've (beamdog) said, their token effort wasn't close.
    Counterpoint - the token effort, which was to stop using said feature, by itself was enough to fix... except that in the process of making the token effort Beamdog discovered that they needed to completely change their workflow in order to prevent this from happening again six months from now.

    Sorry I meant their token effort of GDPR compliance was to inckude a link to the policy rather than an embedded warning rather than the simple fix.

    This doesn't come close to compliance with GDPR, regardless of what googles new policy says.

    GDPR isn't new and compliance isn't that hard, if they'd done it properly the first time, this wouldn't have happened.

    Yes there are other problems down the line and they should be allocating resources appropriately to deal with them

    According to what has been said, the offense wasn't even with GDPR, it was with the App Store's data collection policies policy - they were collecting telemetry data for diagnostic purposes in a way that Google now requires a discrete in-app data collection policy indicating that it's collecting that specific data. As of 2.6 they will no longer be collecting that telemetry data, meaning that it's only the GDPR that they need to be wary of.

    Edit: Okay, yeah, that is technically noncompliant with the GDPR in that they weren't fully disclosing what was being collected or how it was being used, but at the time of 2.5's release the GDPR had not yet been declared by the ABA as being in force outside of the European Union, so Beamdog was not yet required to be compliant with it - Canada's not in the European Union.

    Question: what all was in the 2.5 build to ensure GDPR compliance? Was there anything given how long ago 2.5 was released? And is that on all platforms or just certain ones?

    Also, can I just say how silly it is that America is telling Canada that they have to follow a law passed in Europe?

    I'm not an expert in GDPR, but I thought the requirement for compliance from the start was if you were handling the personal data of EU citizens, regardless of whether you were based in the EU or not.

    I think 2.5s token effort was a link to an external website saying they were collecting data, when it really needed an embedded policy in the app (or to remove the telemetry tracking

  • shabadooshabadoo Member Posts: 136
    @wallaceprime, No worries, I've much thicker skin than that. Sarcasm doesn't always translate well on the forum, and is not always well received.

    kaja8wallaceprime
  • jimmytieljimmytiel Member Posts: 19
    edited July 8
    radeck16 wrote: »
    Please check out a short update from Luke Rideout on the Google Play fix.

    TL;DR: 2.6 is coming out on Google Play posthaste, ..

    2.6 is coming out on Google Play posthaste

    "post haste"- really ???
    in what universe ???



    one week later- - still waiting

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/posthaste

    adverb
    with the greatest possible speed or promptness:


    time for a new excuse/date

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 18,464
    @jimmytiel It's not one week later, 6 days at the moment. In the same article it's said: "We’re almost at the end of that road, and once we’ve verified that everything’s in good shape, we can QA it, and hopefully get it to you within the next few weeks."

  • grigoriYgrigoriY Member Posts: 4
    @JuliusBorisov Will the required Android version change in the new release?

  • jimmytieljimmytiel Member Posts: 19
    @jimmytiel It's not one week later, 6 days at the moment. In the same article it's said: "We’re almost at the end of that road, and once we’ve verified that everything’s in good shape, we can QA it, and hopefully get it to you within the next few weeks."

    so "post haste" now means "another month at least" i.e. the "game not available" period will probably exceed half a year.. so you quibbling about a one day rounding error looks rather silly

    Raduziel
  • jimmytieljimmytiel Member Posts: 19
    -> FOR the record. today it IS one week later.

    and post-haste is still a meaningless promise

    the six months elapsed of NO GAME fast approaches

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