The developer looked into such matters. Our official position seems not to be the same as the one by Google:
Those who wish to seek refunds will need to request this through Google Play support.
I think the key here is the following: "we (Google) can only provide refund for scenarios that are within our refund policies". Cases like these are not within their policies it seems.
We'll bring back the games. Yes, 3 months is long. We're sorry.
FFS, the one day I decide to play the game, I find out its been pulled. I payed 10 bucks for both games, back when smh, both games were sold 2 in 1 package (dunno how, that's how it was), when I got an urge to play I now find out I can't play? Srsly?
I would also reason that with the announcement of Baldur's Gate 3 you should be seeing an increase in sales... and you're losing a lot of them on the play store platform.
Probably it is the store you sell the least (or not?), but these are still lost sales... and all for google deciding to pull the game and then saying it's your responsibility due to the european gdrp nonsense.
From what i gather, also, most of the difficulties you are receiving are burocratic in nature?
I have a question, i believe you can answer this. When BG2 will return to the store update to comply with the european nonsense... will the other game you have in the store be updated too? I think you said that your others game were at risk of being pulled too.
will the "developer" now please do as google say, instead of referring us back to google
I am through with waiting for the April- May- June_July fix. I want my money back please
"Thank you for replying.
In regard to your email, we can only provide refund for scenarios that are within our refund policies, there isn't a possibility to refund anything that isn't within the policies.
Concerns regarding refund in such scenarios where it is not possible for us to provide a refund you need to contact the developer as they need to look into such matters. As the app developer is the person who has complete control over the app, the decision to refund needs to be addressed by them.
I appreciate your patience and understanding.
Thanks!
Craig D
The Google Support Team
"
Bolded the key part.
Beamdog decided not or offer refunds as they are working to get the apps back on the store. Maybe you should read what beamdog’s Refund policy is as well. https://www.beamdog.com/return-policy/
If you want, you can email Craig back again and ask who’s idea it was to remove the APP from the Google Play store, and ask if it’s Google, doesn’t that mean that the developer doesn’t have complete control over it?
There is no law stating a company needs to give a person a refund for any reason. So you might as well stop wasting your time, learn your lesson (Google is a shit company who you should never do business with) and wait for the game to reappear which Beamdog promised it would. ...They just haven’t said when...
"If you want, you can email Craig back again and ask who’s idea it was to remove the APP from the Google Play store, and ask if it’s Google, doesn’t that mean that the developer doesn’t have complete control over it?"
I could but he is just a front line muppet, & I am asking again why they deleted my purchase record and will they replace it in order history or explain themselves. I did read somewhere here that a person got £5 credit out of them using that argument but I cannot now find the reference. Really, its not the money, its the principle. I could write off the loss and move on but I feel ripped off by a pair of companies both saying "it's the other guy's fault" and "goodwill - we don't need your goodwill..."
as to " go read beamdog refund policy" - well that does not cover being deprived of the game for 4 months.
if B will not provide an APK I will go to a website that can. Question: "how is that piracy when I've already paid for it ? ."
and will B. please note/comment: if my geniune backup from an older device would restore Ok there would be no need to resort to that, but some insane "anti-piracy " feature" is preventing the restore ? ( with both devices logged into same play store account, and I have the complete Obb file copied with same name in same path get the restored app is stuck looking for a download server ).
Are these games not restorable by design? If so it will be pointless for me to backup my other two B purchases in case they also get pulled
"If you want, you can email Craig back again and ask who’s idea it was to remove the APP from the Google Play store, and ask if it’s Google, doesn’t that mean that the developer doesn’t have complete control over it?"
I could but he is just a front line muppet, & I am asking again why they deleted my purchase record and will they replace it in order history or explain themselves. I did read somewhere here that a person got £5 credit out of them using that argument but I cannot now find the reference. Really, its not the money, its the principle. I could write off the loss and move on but I feel ripped off by a pair of companies both saying "it's the other guy's fault" and "goodwill - we don't need your goodwill..."
as to " go read beamdog refund policy" - well that does not cover being deprived of the game for 4 months.
if B will not provide an APK I will go to a website that can. Question: "how is that piracy when I've already paid for it ? ."
and will B. please note/comment: if my geniune backup from an older device would restore Ok there would be no need to resort to that, but some insane "anti-piracy " feature" is preventing the restore ? ( with both devices logged into same play store account, and I have the complete Obb file copied with same name in same path get the restored app is stuck looking for a download server ).
Are these games not restorable by design? If so it will be pointless for me to backup my other two B purchases in case they also get pulled
It was me that got a £5 credit. I complained to Google that they had removed the purchase from my order history.
This was my final response from them
wrote:
Thank you for writing back to Google support!
I've received an update from my specialist team and as you're unable to find the order to raise the refund request, we would be happy to offer Google Play promotional credit.
We would like to offer you 5 GBP Google Play promotional credit as a gift that you can use towards purchasing your favourite Android app, music, movies and other digital content on Google Play.
To access your credit, follow these steps:....
Apparently when an app is removed from Google play it's removed from your order history, I had complained that shouldn't be the case as it prevented you from raising a refund request, whether or not it was covered by their policy. They also shouldn't be deleting my record of apps without letting me know.
It's not a refund from Google, but it's better than nothing.
On the point of an alternative installation, I'm not an expert in EULAs but this is my reading of it:
You have a license to operate one installation of bg2.
The EULA doesn't seem to mandate where you get your one installation of BG2 from so in that regard it may be permissible to get it from an alternative location to the Play store. That alternative location would have to be authorised by beamdog, which they can't do as it would apparently breach their agreement with WOTC, but not you in breach of your agreement with Beamdog.
However any alternative installation would run into the same issue of the activation check with play which would fail.
Maybe Julius can tell us if that activation check with the Google servers is required by their license with wotc. Because if its not it's something they should do away with to allow their paying customers to continue to use their paid software from backups.
The EULA does say:
wrote:
The Vendor may remedy any non-conforming Software by providing a refund of the purchase price or, at the Vendors option, repair or replace any or all of the Software.
The vendor being Beamdog.
So we can expect a refund if/when this doesn't make it back to play
There is no law stating a company needs to give a person a refund for any reason. So you might as well stop wasting your time, learn your lesson (Google is a shit company who you should never do business with) and wait for the game to reappear which Beamdog promised it would. ...They just haven’t said when...
That's not quite the case in addition to refund policy the EULA says they should refund, repair or replace non working software.
They don't get an infinite time frame to repair or replace, though this would have to be pushed through in civil case which no one's going to do over a 20$ game
So what you're saying is that Beamdog should get a pass because it was worse in the past?
Of course not - rather, the anger and hatred that they're getting for some but not all of their products getting removed from one storefront is not even close to the anger and hatred they were getting when they had no viable revenue stream for almost a year (BGEE was in dire need of the pending patch that they couldn't push and they couldn't release BG2EE because Bankruptcy is a bitch for all involved, not just the debtor).
Where do you draw the line on bad customer service then? How many of your paid games need to disappear before beamdog get taken to task?
There's a simple phrase that seems to have been forgotten in this day and age. "Vote with your wallet." I get that you're out twenty or forty USD. I get that you're peeved because you paid for something and now you don't have it any more (damn you, Software-As-A-Service infrastructure).
If you're that upset, just stop doing business with them.
It's not really my concern whether the companies been in dire straights before or whether the hatred they are getting is not as bad as at i was back then.
"Voting with my wallet" is something I imagine most of the BG2/IWD owners will be doing from now on, but it's by no means the only tool available to mistreated customers.
Today social media presence is vital to companies, especially video game ones, so continuing to voice disapproval over an unsatisfactory situation on forums, 1* reviews etc... Keeps pressure on a company to resolve an issue, as well as disuade other companies from pulling the same thing.
>to the folks who kindle replied to my various points.
I assume the restored app was wanting to check for updates, not that it was needing activation, but I could be wrong. I am not an expert on google activations but I thought that once an app had been installed, activated, then removed from a device, the activation record stayed on the device, so the restore would not need to check again. I was trying to get it back onto a device where it had been installed before, but removed to free up space, thinking I could re-install at any time from google play
the restored copy seems to install and start , there is no activation error message, but then it immediately looks for a download server, before checking whether the device already has the OBB data ?
and that the versions on "other" sites will not do that, they will have had the activation code stripped out so they should just work
> no reply from google yet, to "can I have my deleted purchase record put back please" . Google are not an easy company to complain to . Each message goes to some random person who does not necessarily bother to look at any message history ( same as with Amazon ). so they come across as friendly and wanting to help but there's no follow through. Live chat is so frustrating I don't think I can face another go at that.
The word "vendor" does not refer to the original creator of a product; it refers to the last person actually selling that product. Retailers and distributors would be examples of vendors. Since Google is the one hosting the product, Google would be the vendor. Beamdog is only the vendor for purchases from the Beamdog client application; the others would be Google, Steam, and GoG.
The word "vendor" does not refer to the original creator of a product; it refers to the last person actually selling that product. Retailers and distributors would be examples of vendors. Since Google is the one hosting the product, Google would be the vendor. Beamdog is only the vendor for purchases from the Beamdog client application; the others would be Google, Steam, and GoG.
....and Apple (iOS). The Apple terms and conditions are absolutely loathsome. As a customer you have zero rights. The Google are almost certainly the same or worse.
As a lawyer I sometimes read such terms for a cheap laugh. The rights you have to forfeit... Jesus.
But its convenient and I still buy the products: because its easy when it works. Sometimes it doesnt work, and just have to shrug and say better luck next time. I have my share of apps that just doesnt work, and sometimes the app goes missing due to new requirements from Apple. Tough luck.
You should all just chill out a bit. The game will be back eventually. Go do something else in the meantime, there are a lot of android games out there.
The word "vendor" does not refer to the original creator of a product; it refers to the last person actually selling that product. Retailers and distributors would be examples of vendors. Since Google is the one hosting the product, Google would be the vendor. Beamdog is only the vendor for purchases from the Beamdog client application; the others would be Google, Steam, and GoG.
That's not correct in this case, I was referring to EULA which sets out the vendor as Idea spark labs operating as beamdog, with the customer being the licencee.
From the EULA
wrote:
Under this End User License Agreement (the "Agreement"), IdeaSpark Labs operating as Beamdog (the "Vendor") grants to the user (the "Licensee") a non-exclusive and non-transferable license (the "License") to use Downloaded Programs (the "Software").
.
Even backup copies don't work? Is that what I read?
I copied the games from my phone to my tablet as my phone was going away for repair/replacement and they work. The obb folder for BG and BG2 are named almost identically so you have to be careful which one you copy.
I copied the games from my phone to my tablet as my phone was going away for repair/replacement and they work. The obb folder for BG and BG2 are named almost identically so you have to be careful which one you copy.
strange - did not work for me.
i only have BG2 so no possibility of confusion.
you said " copied", I assume you used backup and restore on the APK - that is what I tried, with a simple copy of the big OBB folder. but the restored app looks for a download server & I cant see any way to stop that. I have hte correct obb in the correct path.
so it is interesting but puzzling that it worked for you. can you please expand on how you "copied". Should I try to find and copy the app folder , and not use backup+restore?
I copied the games from my phone to my tablet as my phone was going away for repair/replacement and they work. The obb folder for BG and BG2 are named almost identically so you have to be careful which one you copy.
strange - did not work for me.
i only have BG2 so no possibility of confusion.
you said " copied", I assume you used backup and restore on the APK - that is what I tried, with a simple copy of the big OBB folder. but the restored app looks for a download server & I cant see any way to stop that. I have hte correct obb in the correct path.
so it is interesting but puzzling that it worked for you. can you please expand on how you "copied". Should I try to find and copy the app folder , and not use backup+restore?
Used an app called share it to send across the APK and an otg cable and data stick to copy across the obb folder. Strongly suggest you don't do this if you don't still have your receipt as it no longer states installed from play store. You will also need to replace it with play store version once they can get it up if you want the update once it is released.
This is how I kept Shaddowrun and turned down the refund they offered me.
I do not condone piracy and would suggest you don't share the files with anyone else.
I have never heard of SHARE IT, but I see that google offer it in the google play store, so its obviously a legit, approved utility and not a piracy aid ... or are Google being a tad hypocritical - surely not !
I do still have my purchase receipt, and incidentally I got a stupid reply from google telling me how to find it in my order history. but of course it's no longer there.I have send them a screenshot to prove it
here is their idiotic reply FYI, with my personal info redacted
"Hi xxxxx,
Appreciate your response.
Firstly, I would like to apologize for the run around and miscommunication that has happened.
In regards to your concern, I have checked your account for the transaction Id: GPA.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
and I can confirm that you've successfully placed your order on xxxxxxx. Here’s how you can check your transaction details:
...
Go to play.google.com.
On the top left corner, tap the Menu icon.
Tap Account.
Under "Order history", find and select your transaction. You’ll see the merchant name, the transaction date and time, the last 4 digits of the payment method used, and other details. Also, Google serves as a storefront, you're actually making the purchase from the developer. We expect app developers to provide support and refunds for their own products on the Google Play.
Please reply to this email or if you wish to talk to my team,you can fill this form and let my team call you. We're happy to help.
Are you sure it was very simple I bought what was sold with an agreement that specifically I would be able to download it to whatever Source I want. There was no white line at the bottom black Print saying that they had the option of denying me that therefore this is a breach of contract by Google I expect a refund or correction of this soon if not legal precedent say that well if I wait can I get recompense
This, interestingly, is the one area where Apple gets it right. They don't delete your order history along with the app when something is removed from the App Store.
Which raises a good question. When BG2 and IWD show back up in the Play store, will our order histories be restored, or will we have to buy the game all over again. I am really hoping there will be some sort of dispensation if it's the latter.
Comments
Those who wish to seek refunds will need to request this through Google Play support.
I think the key here is the following: "we (Google) can only provide refund for scenarios that are within our refund policies". Cases like these are not within their policies it seems.
We'll bring back the games. Yes, 3 months is long. We're sorry.
Probably it is the store you sell the least (or not?), but these are still lost sales... and all for google deciding to pull the game and then saying it's your responsibility due to the european gdrp nonsense.
From what i gather, also, most of the difficulties you are receiving are burocratic in nature?
I have a question, i believe you can answer this. When BG2 will return to the store update to comply with the european nonsense... will the other game you have in the store be updated too? I think you said that your others game were at risk of being pulled too.
Cheers.
Bolded the key part.
Beamdog decided not or offer refunds as they are working to get the apps back on the store. Maybe you should read what beamdog’s Refund policy is as well. https://www.beamdog.com/return-policy/
If you want, you can email Craig back again and ask who’s idea it was to remove the APP from the Google Play store, and ask if it’s Google, doesn’t that mean that the developer doesn’t have complete control over it?
There is no law stating a company needs to give a person a refund for any reason. So you might as well stop wasting your time, learn your lesson (Google is a shit company who you should never do business with) and wait for the game to reappear which Beamdog promised it would. ...They just haven’t said when...
I could but he is just a front line muppet, & I am asking again why they deleted my purchase record and will they replace it in order history or explain themselves. I did read somewhere here that a person got £5 credit out of them using that argument but I cannot now find the reference. Really, its not the money, its the principle. I could write off the loss and move on but I feel ripped off by a pair of companies both saying "it's the other guy's fault" and "goodwill - we don't need your goodwill..."
as to " go read beamdog refund policy" - well that does not cover being deprived of the game for 4 months.
if B will not provide an APK I will go to a website that can. Question: "how is that piracy when I've already paid for it ? ."
and will B. please note/comment: if my geniune backup from an older device would restore Ok there would be no need to resort to that, but some insane "anti-piracy " feature" is preventing the restore ? ( with both devices logged into same play store account, and I have the complete Obb file copied with same name in same path get the restored app is stuck looking for a download server ).
Are these games not restorable by design? If so it will be pointless for me to backup my other two B purchases in case they also get pulled
It was me that got a £5 credit. I complained to Google that they had removed the purchase from my order history.
This was my final response from them
Apparently when an app is removed from Google play it's removed from your order history, I had complained that shouldn't be the case as it prevented you from raising a refund request, whether or not it was covered by their policy. They also shouldn't be deleting my record of apps without letting me know.
It's not a refund from Google, but it's better than nothing.
On the point of an alternative installation, I'm not an expert in EULAs but this is my reading of it:
You have a license to operate one installation of bg2.
The EULA doesn't seem to mandate where you get your one installation of BG2 from so in that regard it may be permissible to get it from an alternative location to the Play store. That alternative location would have to be authorised by beamdog, which they can't do as it would apparently breach their agreement with WOTC, but not you in breach of your agreement with Beamdog.
However any alternative installation would run into the same issue of the activation check with play which would fail.
Maybe Julius can tell us if that activation check with the Google servers is required by their license with wotc. Because if its not it's something they should do away with to allow their paying customers to continue to use their paid software from backups.
The EULA does say:
The vendor being Beamdog.
So we can expect a refund if/when this doesn't make it back to play
That's not quite the case in addition to refund policy the EULA says they should refund, repair or replace non working software.
They don't get an infinite time frame to repair or replace, though this would have to be pushed through in civil case which no one's going to do over a 20$ game
It's not really my concern whether the companies been in dire straights before or whether the hatred they are getting is not as bad as at i was back then.
"Voting with my wallet" is something I imagine most of the BG2/IWD owners will be doing from now on, but it's by no means the only tool available to mistreated customers.
Today social media presence is vital to companies, especially video game ones, so continuing to voice disapproval over an unsatisfactory situation on forums, 1* reviews etc... Keeps pressure on a company to resolve an issue, as well as disuade other companies from pulling the same thing.
I assume the restored app was wanting to check for updates, not that it was needing activation, but I could be wrong. I am not an expert on google activations but I thought that once an app had been installed, activated, then removed from a device, the activation record stayed on the device, so the restore would not need to check again. I was trying to get it back onto a device where it had been installed before, but removed to free up space, thinking I could re-install at any time from google play
the restored copy seems to install and start , there is no activation error message, but then it immediately looks for a download server, before checking whether the device already has the OBB data ?
and that the versions on "other" sites will not do that, they will have had the activation code stripped out so they should just work
> no reply from google yet, to "can I have my deleted purchase record put back please" . Google are not an easy company to complain to . Each message goes to some random person who does not necessarily bother to look at any message history ( same as with Amazon ). so they come across as friendly and wanting to help but there's no follow through. Live chat is so frustrating I don't think I can face another go at that.
....and Apple (iOS). The Apple terms and conditions are absolutely loathsome. As a customer you have zero rights. The Google are almost certainly the same or worse.
As a lawyer I sometimes read such terms for a cheap laugh. The rights you have to forfeit... Jesus.
But its convenient and I still buy the products: because its easy when it works. Sometimes it doesnt work, and just have to shrug and say better luck next time. I have my share of apps that just doesnt work, and sometimes the app goes missing due to new requirements from Apple. Tough luck.
??? what's supposed to be up now ???
nothing has returned to my google play (UK)
Your country ?
They are still not in UK Google play store as at 21.33 pm UK time
That's not correct in this case, I was referring to EULA which sets out the vendor as Idea spark labs operating as beamdog, with the customer being the licencee.
From the EULA
Rather than Vendor as the storefront
I copied the games from my phone to my tablet as my phone was going away for repair/replacement and they work. The obb folder for BG and BG2 are named almost identically so you have to be careful which one you copy.
strange - did not work for me.
i only have BG2 so no possibility of confusion.
you said " copied", I assume you used backup and restore on the APK - that is what I tried, with a simple copy of the big OBB folder. but the restored app looks for a download server & I cant see any way to stop that. I have hte correct obb in the correct path.
so it is interesting but puzzling that it worked for you. can you please expand on how you "copied". Should I try to find and copy the app folder , and not use backup+restore?
Used an app called share it to send across the APK and an otg cable and data stick to copy across the obb folder. Strongly suggest you don't do this if you don't still have your receipt as it no longer states installed from play store. You will also need to replace it with play store version once they can get it up if you want the update once it is released.
This is how I kept Shaddowrun and turned down the refund they offered me.
I do not condone piracy and would suggest you don't share the files with anyone else.
I do still have my purchase receipt, and incidentally I got a stupid reply from google telling me how to find it in my order history. but of course it's no longer there.I have send them a screenshot to prove it
here is their idiotic reply FYI, with my personal info redacted
"Hi xxxxx,
Appreciate your response.
Firstly, I would like to apologize for the run around and miscommunication that has happened.
In regards to your concern, I have checked your account for the transaction Id: GPA.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
and I can confirm that you've successfully placed your order on xxxxxxx. Here’s how you can check your transaction details:
...
Go to play.google.com.
On the top left corner, tap the Menu icon.
Tap Account.
Under "Order history", find and select your transaction. You’ll see the merchant name, the transaction date and time, the last 4 digits of the payment method used, and other details.
Also, Google serves as a storefront, you're actually making the purchase from the developer. We expect app developers to provide support and refunds for their own products on the Google Play.
Please reply to this email or if you wish to talk to my team,you can fill this form and let my team call you. We're happy to help.
Thanks!
Erica B
The Google Support Team
Now I at least have an idea on how to back up Android apps. Thank you.
Of course, I never considered it necessary until all this. Live and learn, I suppose.
Edit: spelling error and new choice of phrasing.
And @Pirrie is also doing a funny job making light of the situation.
I know you guys are just regular folk doing a job. Here's hoping things grey better for everyone.
Which raises a good question. When BG2 and IWD show back up in the Play store, will our order histories be restored, or will we have to buy the game all over again. I am really hoping there will be some sort of dispensation if it's the latter.