Beamdog Q&A: April 2019
JuliusBorisov
Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,767
in News
A few weeks ago Beamdog attended PAX East to showcase our console demo of Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition at the Skybound Games booth.
Today we’re publishing answers from Beamdog Producer Luke Rideout to the community questions about the upcoming console releases of Baldur’s Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, and Neverwinter Nights.
Today we’re publishing answers from Beamdog Producer Luke Rideout to the community questions about the upcoming console releases of Baldur’s Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, and Neverwinter Nights.
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I hope not. I think an important lesson that can be learned from the fiascos that several of the larger developers like Blizzard, Bethesda, and BioWare have blundered through recently is that it doesn't serve any company to do a one-eighty turn on the expectations of their fanbases. Pulling in new customers is important for a business, but not if it's at the cost of the respect of their established clientele, as the resulting backlash can seriously damage their brand and turn their highly esteemed IPs into jokes.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and reiterate my question here in case it was missed in the Ask Beamdog thread: should we expect a different set of answers for April that aren't solely focused on the console ports?
NWN:EE will be useless on console without mods so hopefully you all can get that done.
And I saw the MP question, but will local multiplayer (one console 4-6 remotes) be possible? I think that might be fin for the IE games.
New content is always nice but considering how long it takes them to release a patch that was supposed to be released at the end of last year, I think it's better if they focus on bug fixes first.
Is everything in order?
The game's are more stable than they have ever been. When exactly should they fix story issues that THEY CREATED?
I think this is one of those situations in which both outcomes would be nice (so long as SOD resolution only occurs when you import a save from SOD, I wouldn't want that content forced on me unless I'd actually played the expansion). You don't necessarily have to have one without the other.
As for being more stable than ever, my experience is that that v2.5 has been a regression. The path finding is terrible, as others have noted, and in general I find scrolling is slow/jerky and certain buttons are slow to activate when I hover over them. There are lingering bugs with Larloch's Minor Drain, the Flail of Ages +4 (and+5), etc. (disclaimer: I'm not sure with which patch the FOA bug started). At one point I started a game via my SOD install only to find that the level-up icon doesn't appear on the portraits and one of the basic spells, Farsight, won't cast. There are probably more problems I haven't noticed. In any case, these are basic problems that shouldn't have been missed or left uncorrected.
To give credit where credit is due, there probably are a lot of great fixes in 2.5. Just because I haven't noticed them doesn't mean they aren't there. And the completed quests (like Prism's sculpture and closure to the iron crisis) are nice touches. But if I'm honest, the overall experience has felt like a step back to me. I understand that the code for these games is problematic, and that there are unintended consequences when changes are made. What I can't understand is why the devs don't provide quick fixes for some of these really obvious problems. It was members of the community who provided fixes for the FOA and Larloch's Minor Drain bugs. It's a great community and I love them for it, but imo it should have been the devs who fixed these things.
You can't import if you use modded classes. So that would be terrible implementation.
It is obvious by now that a lot of things are not in order.
A patch that takes a long time to be announced being delayed for almost five months is a clear sign that things are not in order.
See people complaining every day about the pathfinding and don't addressing it in said update while working on it for non-released versions is a clear sign that things are not in order.
Three years waiting for fixes in the UI is a clear sign that things are not in order.
People who bought the game not being able to play it because Beamdog couldn't align itself with Google's policy is a clear sign that things are not in order.
Beamdog is a mess. A management disaster. They bit off more that they could chew and now they keep eating.
I really wish that @TrentOster came up to tell us what the hell is going on, because I feel disrespected by Beamdog right now. Those Q&A answering ONLY console questions is a clear sign that the company doesn't give a damn for their current clients anymore - we made our part, we thrown our money at Beamdog's pocket and now we can [unpolite word censored to avoid a ban] off.
And what gets me more angrier is seeing PC/Mac players looking forward to buying the console version.
In the past I was afraid to see Beamdog having the same destiny that Troika had, but now I say that it seems to be the only way to make they learn how to treat their clients properly.
Never again I'll put my money with anything with Beamdog's or @TrentOster 's signature. They may launch Fallout Enhanced Edition with a Ferrari for every client for 5 bucks, respect is, for me, priceless.
The IE is a very finicking thing, and when Beamdog first started out they offered quick fixes as soon as possible. The problem with that is that the fixes tended to break something completely unrelated to the fix.
And judging from the patch delays, the inactivity on Redmine, the apparent tendency to divert resources away from existing projects and into new ones, and the vaguely dismissive answers to player concerns, I'd say most of those regressions are there to stay.
Until Beamdog decides to start dedicating development resources to fix the bugs they have caused in the EEs, I'm not interested in buying anything else they put out, and I'll also warn anyone else against doing so.
I don't understand why you couldn't make bug fixes and add resolution to the Soul Taker plot. Nor do I understand the bit about modded classes. Maybe I missed something or I wasn't clear.
But do all quick fixes do this? The Larloch's Minor Drain and FOA bugs were fixed, for example, and AFAIK there have been no unintended consequences. There seem to be issues that can be fixed by dropping a small file in the override folder, and I just wish the devs would do this rather than waiting six months or more for someone in the community to do it. In any case, even if quick fixes aren't the answer, it's been too long between patches.
From a communications standpoint, I think @Raduziel hits it right on the head: they created an Ask Beamdog thread, encouraging us to ask anything we want, but really they're trying to create and control a narrative that's focused on the things they care about - in this particular case, console ports.
I don't understand why you couldn't make bug fixes and add resolution to the Soul Taker plot. Nor do I understand the bit about modded classes. Maybe I missed something or I wasn't clear."
You said you only wanted the soultaker resolution to occur if you imported a save game from SoD. THis would lock many players out of ever seeing it, as using modded classes causes problems when importing from one game to the next. SO people who mod the games would be unable to ever see such a resolution.
I know, and everyone knows, your view on the matter. And yet in every thread, by every opportunity, you comment again again and again how you don't agree with Beamdog management, and how you're so professional that you would know better.
Does it really have to happen every time?
I often hear fans wear rose tinted glasses. Let me tell you: hatred makes people blind. From what I've seen, more often than not it makes people more blind than "a fan position".
I'll just focus on one part of your endless rants: this Q&A was specifically created around console questions. Guess why? Because there were tons of questions about the console versions during PAX and afterwards, and no particular place to answer them. I felt the blog would be the best place to answer a few questions about consoles, - not even all the questions, because the blog entry can't be too huge.
And you quickly come to a conclusion that Beamdog doesn't care about everything else? What world are you living in? When did you start picking facts only suiting your view?
Right during the previous month, we have posted the new improved Toolset for NWN:EE. Of course you prefer not to mention it.
Yes, other questions have been pushed to the May entry. How can it be, when a blog entry with console answers - the first ever source for such information in the net - is greeted with nothing but hate?
It's been stated a lot of times: 2.6 was ready, but something happened, about which everyone in the company is very sad and upset, and it wasn't shipped. 2.6 will be shipped. 2.6 isn't the last patch for IE games on PC. Console improvements will be used when any further patch work on PC versions starts. Nobody knows the scale and the details yet.
We're really sorry about the 2.6 situation, but we can't disclose what has happened.
You constantly write about UI issues. The team is well aware of what the community wants. All those long feature requests on the Redmine, and all those threads are known to the developers. You demand answers and fixes with each comment, but it's not the rate with which patches can be provided. We're sorry.
It's been stated that while the team is continuing to grow, Beamdog is still a small team, with not unlimited resources. You mention a fix to the "popping" issue takes 8 hours, but it doesn't work like that when you have multiple products on multiple platforms.
Thank you for your question, @batoor. Beamdog is continuing to grow and continuing to hire new people.
It doesn't have to be every time, just until Beamdog gives me (and the community but I can only speak for myself) an answer. Yet, in every thread about the matter, answers keep being avoided.
I have no problem recognizing that I don't know how to do something - just ask pretty much every modder at this community.
But I do know that I'm damn good at commanding troops, handling an assault rifle, taking/keeping control of a ship, financial planning, PR and crisis management.
I have at least 8 companies about the same size of Beamdog's to back up my words - companies that couldn't properly communicate with their clients and kept generating problems for themselves and after paying me handsomely well doesn't have those problems anymore.
And by the way, if Beamdog ever need to sail safely I'll give my opinions too.
If you think that Beamdog is being well managed I do have a thing or two to teach.
But if this is a Q&A thread, answer those, then, please:
Why is 2.6 delayed?
Why it doesn't address pathfinding?
Why it doesn't address things raised for years by the community?
Why the patching process takes this long?
Why Beamdog keeps expanding it's portfolio with a small team when there are so many things left behind?
This is Beamdog fault's, not mine or any other client's.
Why Beamdog doesn't take responsibility over its own product by closing the Soultaker Dagger plot that it decided to create out of thin air?
Why didn't Beamdog act in a preventive way in the Google Store matter?
About the world Iive question:
I leave in a world when there is a person asking questions and at the other side there is silence or clouded things like "we're sad and can't talk about it". I live in a world where we have less and less information about the PC issues. I live in a world where a basic rule of marketing takes place: silence leads to speculation - for better or worse. I live in a world whose IE aspect is being molded by Beamdog's actions toward its most loyal clients. I live in a world where I do for free something that other companies pay me to do, am ignored by Beamdog and when I'm tagged by the people in charge of community management is for a public scold with a little bit of sarcasm and without answering none of the questions I raise over and over again. I live in a world where you don't politely tell a cliente to shush and try to embarrass him but actually listen and answer or try to solve things privately.
About hate:
Beamdog has a huge opinion about itself if it thinks I hate it. For future reference, here's a list of things I actually hate: communism, tomatoes, pedophiles, rapists, dog abusers and aggressive husbands.
Beamdog tastes my patience and makes me feel powerless by showing me simple things escalating into things like this ridiculously long answer I need to answer for the person related to community management.
Until Beamdog gets better at communicating, this will keep happening, if not with me with someone else.
Good riddance and I do wait for the aforementioned questions if possible.
Peace.
And in the same time:
So you basically wish the company from which you demand something to lay off their staff and close.
Also.
Yeah, as if your comment in this thread from April 21 didn't exist. It's impossible to argue with those whose mind is already set.
Anyway, if you really are all that and a bag of chips, then...
Ignoring the non-specificity of these inquiries...
Why don't YOU handle these problems, eh? Be part of the solution and not part of the problem. I have been making hotfixes for issues and helping people with requests practically since I joined the forums. I prefer to help things get better, rather than whine about how bad things are without even attempting to do anything about it.
It's the same since SoD was released: "We are aware of these issues but the next patch will not contain UI fixes. We will do something in the future (maybe, one day if the stars align)." You can understand that after all these years, we are tired of waiting.
If you have too many projects for your limited resources, it's your fault not ours.
I don't know how things work where you live, but in the business world, money is needed to make things happen. ALL game companies have to make new products to keep the money coming in; that is just how it works. 90% of these companies, including the giant corporations, completely abandon patching their old games in order to keep themselves alive. At that point, any patches either come from the fans or don't exist at all. I really think you guys should thank your lucky stars that Beamdog can afford to keep patching their old games at all! I know I do...
But if you really want Beamdog to stop spreading themselves so thin across so many projects, then I am sure they could do that... But I can almost guarantee you, such a decision would mean that all patching of IE games would cease for good... Is that really what you want?
The whole Soul Taker plot could for instance be a nice plug-in scenario for either a potential BG3, or some sort of other Forgotten Realms franchise in-the-making unreleated to the Bhaalspawn Saga. There's honestly no need for shoehorning it into BG2 a' la SoD2 at all.
I'll ignore the first part of the post as it sounds like trolling and I won't bite this bait.
About the second one, two things:
1) I do fix those issues I know how. DoF has a lot of fixes, I've built fixes for the mess Beamdog made with Bags of Holding and for the Flail of Ages. Feel free to search the forum if you want to prove that I'm wrong. Even if I shouldn't because...
2) It is not my job to fix these things, but Beamdog's. And that is such an absurd argument that I'm surprised that it was even raised.
But I couldn't stand seeing people having trouble with things that I, a mediocre modder, am able to fix between job, studies, physiotherapy, wife, child and side projects. So I went ahead and did part of Beamdog's job to read this kind of comment towards myself.
Imagine the following at the post office:
- Hi, my letter haven't being delivered yet.
- Well sir, why don't YOU get your feet on the road and deliver it yourself?
Don't post against terrorism, go fight the baddies yourself. Don't know how to use a rifle? Well, learn how.
Don't call the firefighters, put an end to the fire yourself.
Don't call the police when robbed, put on a Batman suit and combat crime yourself.
Don't complain if your Wi-Fi is down. Put things on a pendrive and transfer the data yourself.
The list goes on and on.
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90% of the companies makes their own games, so I don't think Beamdog should be compared with them.
And about revenue, if Beamdog relies only on sales (especially in a sazonal market as games) and don't know how to make money create money things are worse than I thought.
I do know that there is a thing that is very expensive to bought: public opinion. The all mighty Bethesda couldn't buy it, I imagine it also doesn't fit in Beamdog's budget. So the only way for Beamdog acquiring it is with a solid fanbase - guess what, the same people so far ignored and kept in the dark.
Beamdog could release a smaller patch addressing things that mediocre modders like myself can handle just as a token of good will and to sign to the community: hey! We care!
I honestly don't believe that UI issues and pathfinding can't be fixed due to contractual bonds. If something legal is holding 2.6, change 2.6 - release 2.5.9, throw us a bone for Pete's sake.
If this legal issue is related to DCA, things are even worst as this is a thing that I never saw nobody in the community claiming this sort of material that can be easily made by dropping files in a folder and that is holding back things that are more urgent as they affect the fun people is having with the game.
A game company doesn't sell games. It sells FUN. If people are getting frustrated because the game is misbehaving, this is an urgent matter as basically people are not receiving what they paid for.
And I'll do my best to make this my last post about it as apparently Beamdog is more interested in justifying its flaws than solving their problems so arguing is pointless and I know I'm being teased to do something stupid and get banned.
Heck to the naw. The BG series is a wonderfully complete, self contained story. The only real empty space, the year or so between 1 and 2, has finally been closed. I do NOT want a hook for a future series or sequel to muddle that all up. The loose plot thread was introduced the story, it should be closed in the same story. Especially since Beamdog hasn't shown much interest in making their own crpgs since SoD's fake controversy.
Disagree with you there. Especially since Beamdog has again and again proven that the only extra content coming for the IE's is purely cosmetic in nature. So the only realistic chance we ever see closure is in future works.
Even if I trust that there is good will at beamdog to continue backporting engine patches from the consoles.
All good things must have an end, and all that. Well.
I only hope it does not introduce new regressions which are unfixable without the source code.