Much has been said about the "barrelmancy" in BG3, but you can say that being able to use your creativity to wipe out the entire goblin fortress with one eldrich blast and the use of the environment against the enemies is a thing of beauty
Once they increase it they have to deal with all the new spells and abilities - but I think it would be good to not delay it too long. The area feels like you shouldn't be level 4 when doing it from the video, but let's see.
Once they increase it they have to deal with all the new spells and abilities - but I think it would be good to not delay it too long. The area feels like you shouldn't be level 4 when doing it from the video, but let's see.
I agree. I wasnt too hard on them when they started off without much in the way of major updates for the EA content, but that was a full year ago now.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that they should either majorly advance the content available in EA (all classes, more areas/zones/levels) or they need to say that the EA content is done and not release anything new until development is complete.
I guess I feel like the extremely slow drip of content they have now isnt satisfying and doesnt seem overly worth it from a PR perspective.
I saw you talk earlier this year about Baldur's Gate 3 now "aiming" for release in 2022. Oh Swen! I was convinced it would spend a year in Early Access like Divinity: Original Sin 2 did, but no! And it doesn't even sound like you're fully set on 2022 either.
Swen Vincke: Ha ha. So, what do we do - what is our job when making this game? It's really trying to create moment-to-moment gameplay that's really good for you and that's rewarding at every single step. It takes an insane amount of time to do this in a game with so much freedom. And we're trying to really reward you if you're going to go on your evil playthrough, or your good playthrough, or your chaotic playthrough. We're trying to give you something at every single step. And just the creation of that is an exponential effort, unfortunately, and so it takes much more time than we expected, I can tell you that!
You mentioned you're doing all 12 D&D classes there.
Swen Vincke: Yeah, we're doing the classes that are in the Player Handbook. They are the ones that are going in. I hope we openly communicated that part because that's what we're doing.
You won't be pulling in any classes, or subclasses, added in new D&D books then?
Swen Vincke: No, that's why we... The Player Handbook on its own is already quite a lot of work, to do it the way that we want to do it, so we're sticking to that. If we manage to get it all right, we will be very happy, because that's a lot - there's really a lot of combinations you can make with it, especially when you add multi-class into the mix. So that's what we want to do for BG3.
I´m not really worried about the subclasses TBH, the moment they put the base class I´m sure that the subclasses would come on as mods eventually (there are even in the EA) and the subclasses do not have dialogue anyway so it´s not that big of an issue.
Once they increase it they have to deal with all the new spells and abilities - but I think it would be good to not delay it too long. The area feels like you shouldn't be level 4 when doing it from the video, but let's see.
I really want to start throwing fireballs, It does not feel a D&D game without them =D
PD: patch 6 of the EA and you still have to download 76gb of game instead of the actual patch... Man.
The update in graphics look really really cool between patch 5 and 6. I dont remember exactly which video it was, but one showed several scenes in patch 5 and then 6, and there's a meaningful improvement. Incidentally, it's not like the graphics were ever bad, so this is just going from good to better. I appreciate that.
I also agree that their decision to stop just a the PHB seems totally fine with me. The only thing you're really missing is the Artificer, which will either be modded in as well or maybe be part of a DLC.
Late 2022 seems reasonable to me. This game is easily shaping up to be their biggest of the "modern" 3 games Larian has made, and even if you assume Act 3 will be significantly shorter than the first two (as is often the case in these situations) you are still talking about 120 hours, with at least 5x that in replay value when you consider all the variables the tabletop aspects of this allow for when trying different things.
Assuming the game is still about 12 months from actual release, they still have to incorporate at LEAST 4 or 5 more class archetypes, 2/3rds of the rest of the game, and the difficulty slider, to name just a few. Worth pointing out that this may be (and likely is) where the MAJORITY of the work at the studio is focused right now. As for DLC, Larian has a track record with the Original Sin games for releasing such content in free updates that are incorporated in patches.
I like some of the graphic changes, but I think Lae'zel looks too human now. Agree that stopping at the PHB would be a good call.
Good to have the Sorcerer, but allowing casting 2 spells in a turn with Quicken spell is a real balance upset compared to PnP. Hard to see how wizards are supposed to compete with that, especially as their flexibility advantages are lessened in cRPGs anyway. But we can hope that this will become visible in testing, I just think it is very obvious. Just think how powerful opening with double web or double fireball would have been in BG and add something extra due to precise targeting in turn based combat.
And the extra weapon abilities are very Larian and not very D&D.
Usually in the tabletop, wizards have the advantage of ritual casting ( Sorcs do not have it) and Spell recovery in short rests, but in BG3 that is not really an advantage, mainly because there is no ritual casting and you can rest a lot more than in a PNP campaign. You know fewer spells as a sorc, but your bloodline could give you access to spells from other classes. You also have a lot of scrolls and the staffs that add spells, the spell selection is fewer than the one you usually have... to be honest, I do not see the wizs would have a clear advantage in the videogame if not for the skills that require intelligence ( and nothing stops your sorcerer to level up int) and maybe the subclasses`features for some builds.
I like some of the graphic changes, but I think Lae'zel looks too human now. Agree that stopping at the PHB would be a good call.
Good to have the Sorcerer, but allowing casting 2 spells in a turn with Quicken spell is a real balance upset compared to PnP. Hard to see how wizards are supposed to compete with that, especially as their flexibility advantages are lessened in cRPGs anyway. But we can hope that this will become visible in testing, I just think it is very obvious. Just think how powerful opening with double web or double fireball would have been in BG and add something extra due to precise targeting in turn based combat.
And the extra weapon abilities are very Larian and not very D&D.
Yeahh. I second, third and fourth this. I have a 5e table top game going with a sorcerer, and for a few games, I didnt understand that a quickened spell can only be a cantrip. It made encounter design really hard when fights started off with 2 fireballs in a row.
- twinned haste, twinned invisibility, twinned hold person/monster,... are pure evil. Also , the only way in 5e to maintain two concentration spells at once.
-Empower burning hands/fireball/etc -> Self-explanatory. Your kaboom has an extra booooooom.
-Distant vampiric touch, cure wounds, Bestow Curse etc.... -> touch spells delivered from a safe distance and watch enemies die from a distance while you have some tea and scones in the tavern.
-Careful Fireball, Darkness, Confusion, Stinking Cloud, Ice Storm. -> What is that "friendly fire" the wizs are talking about? Is it tasty?
Sorcs have a way to make the DM life more complicated, so I assume you can make some pretty crazy stunts in the videogame.
Yes - but the point is that Quicken is implemented incorrectly in BG3 and that makes the Sorcerer even more OP compared to a Wizard (again, the wider spell selection is great for P&P, but doesn't really shine in cRPGs).
Right now in BG3 the Sorcerer gets more metamagic abilities earlier than in RAW and Quicken spell is much more powerful as it allows to cast any spell twice per turn, including AoE spells. It doesn't do that in RAW.
Two spells of your choice in a turn will be horribly hard to balance around, we already discussed the alpha-strike issue before and this makes it worse.
A 5th level Sorcerer will be able to deal 16d6 AOE damage in the 1st turn of combat.
By the way, with careful spell per RAW you just succeed at your saving roll automatically, so careful fireball still does half damage to your party. It's worth noticing that evoker wizards have a more powerful version that does not cost resources & gives half damage with a failed saving roll and zero damage if you save.
So with fireball and icestorm the evocation wizard is better off - even before he gets Overchannel. So the evocation wizard is better at evocation spells but can't use his extra abilities on most CC spells.
Got a bit out of touch. Do you mean in BG3 the rule "no two spells per round, unless twinned and even then 1 levelled apell+one cantrip only" is removed? You can cast two leveled spells? If so, I am sure it will be fixed.
Same with two concentration spells. What do you mean? There are no concentration cantrips (are there?) And if you twinned Haste and then lose concentration, I am pretty sure both affected characters will lose Haste.
Got a bit out of touch. Do you mean in BG3 the rule "no two spells per round, unless twinned and even then 1 levelled apell+one cantrip only" is removed? You can cast two leveled spells? If so, I am sure it will be fixed.
Same with two concentration spells. What do you mean? There are no concentration cantrips (are there?) And if you twinned Haste and then lose concentration, I am pretty sure both affected characters will lose Haste.
Exactly, he meant in Bg3, unlike in PnP you can use quicken to cast 2 spells ( 2 fireballs, 2 lighting bolts, etc) one as a
bonus action and the other as a standard action. You do not have (at least in the EA) the limitation of only one spell per turn, plus a cantrip or other action. What "Quicken" does is convert a spell in a bonus action so you usually are limited by that rule. It´s not the case in the EA.
And that without the Action surge you could get later when you can multiclass to fighter 2, that would make it three fireballs in a row. Or use speed potions, haste, etc.
There are people even saying you can use the rogue thief bg3 ability to have 2 bonus actions per turn to add even another hit to the mix. (Didn´t try. Neither the fireball thing since you do not have level 5 in the game without mods)
Ok, so they upped the cost of Quicken from 2 sorcery points in 5E to 3 sorcery points in BG3.
And quicken It's not available at the 2nd level because your maximum sorcery points are only 2 at that level. But you can pick quicken at level 3 (I wonder if it´s for playtesting or that would be a thing because in PnP you do not get 3 metamagic until level 10) so you can cast two shatter or two webs at level 4...
With that augmented cost maybe they want to make a trial run in the EA, see how it goes with the "quicken makes you cast two spells" and maybe you will have that in the final version of the game.
That... is a sick amount of damage (potentially). Still think it will be modified more if it stays in any form. People on the BG3 forums are quite good at math and not all of them like to play sorcerers - there will be enough demonstrations (with all calculations behind) that would prove the mechanic should be changed.
I am less sure that they are going to fix it; it allows you to pull off the exact kind of crazy combos that Larian is in love with.
And it's been in the game forever in another form, i.e. speed potions, which simply give you another full action per turn.
I dont know. I think there's a fair chance they'll fix it. People on here were convinced the Height = automatic advantage thing would never get fixed, and it has. Pushing has also been made less desirable (loss of loot, and enemies moved to prevent cheese push kills). IIRC, surface effects have also been lessened (which is something we can all agree is a core pillar of what Larian wants to do. So if they're lessening that, then there probably are no sacred cows).
I do believe Larian might leave in some way for a caster to cast two spells in one round (aside from the Multiclass action surge one), but I kind of doubt that they're going to leave it as a fundamental part of the sorcerer kit.
Edit: While I've had my issues with some of Larian's timeframe and presentation of material, I've been pretty impressed with their fixing of mechanics within the game to better suit what the community wants
So, I was occupied with the W3 DLC of the holy detonation, didn´t play much of the latest patch. Is it worth it to start a new game or should I wait for the next one?
I am less sure that they are going to fix it; it allows you to pull off the exact kind of crazy combos that Larian is in love with.
And it's been in the game forever in another form, i.e. speed potions, which simply give you another full action per turn.
I dont know. I think there's a fair chance they'll fix it. People on here were convinced the Height = automatic advantage thing would never get fixed, and it has. Pushing has also been made less desirable (loss of loot, and enemies moved to prevent cheese push kills). IIRC, surface effects have also been lessened (which is something we can all agree is a core pillar of what Larian wants to do. So if they're lessening that, then there probably are no sacred cows).
I do believe Larian might leave in some way for a caster to cast two spells in one round (aside from the Multiclass action surge one), but I kind of doubt that they're going to leave it as a fundamental part of the sorcerer kit.
Edit: While I've had my issues with some of Larian's timeframe and presentation of material, I've been pretty impressed with their fixing of mechanics within the game to better suit what the community wants
Having played the new version my impression is more mixed. I agree that they did change quite a few things because of player requests, but at the same time they reintroduce the same kind of stuff via other avenues later on.
Cases to point the new weapon effects. And a bit more typical for Larian, look at the Chromatic Orb spell which was only recently added: the damage gets nerfed from 3d8 to 2d8, but it creates... guess what? An elemental surface of course! Including the lightning version basically creating an electrified puddle.
So there's progress in some ways, but they still persist in adding the same type of stuff in different ways.
Cases to point the new weapon effects. And a bit more typical for Larian, look at the Chromatic Orb spell which was only recently added: the damage gets nerfed from 3d8 to 2d8, but it creates... guess what? An elemental surface of course! Including the lightning version basically creating an electrified puddle.
Comments
Darn. Still can't re-create my current tabletop dream team.
I go with the classic Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Thief, with perhaps a Paladin, Bard, Ranger and/or Druid thrown in if the party slots are available.
Well as long as those bards and paladins aren't in the game yet...
Does anyone know (or have preference) which of the Sorcerous Origins will make the cut? Draconic seems a given...
Since there is an obvious reference to mindflayers, It would be strange if they do not have the aberrant bloodline =p
Also, you can read an insightful interview with Swen: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2021-10-14-baldurs-gate-3-patch-6-impressions-and-an-interview-with-larian
I agree. I wasnt too hard on them when they started off without much in the way of major updates for the EA content, but that was a full year ago now.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that they should either majorly advance the content available in EA (all classes, more areas/zones/levels) or they need to say that the EA content is done and not release anything new until development is complete.
I guess I feel like the extremely slow drip of content they have now isnt satisfying and doesnt seem overly worth it from a PR perspective.
Mostly nothing really new, but we have some reassurances about the classes and game development going on.
I´m not really worried about the subclasses TBH, the moment they put the base class I´m sure that the subclasses would come on as mods eventually (there are even in the EA) and the subclasses do not have dialogue anyway so it´s not that big of an issue.
I really want to start throwing fireballs, It does not feel a D&D game without them =D
PD: patch 6 of the EA and you still have to download 76gb of game instead of the actual patch... Man.
I also agree that their decision to stop just a the PHB seems totally fine with me. The only thing you're really missing is the Artificer, which will either be modded in as well or maybe be part of a DLC.
Assuming the game is still about 12 months from actual release, they still have to incorporate at LEAST 4 or 5 more class archetypes, 2/3rds of the rest of the game, and the difficulty slider, to name just a few. Worth pointing out that this may be (and likely is) where the MAJORITY of the work at the studio is focused right now. As for DLC, Larian has a track record with the Original Sin games for releasing such content in free updates that are incorporated in patches.
Good to have the Sorcerer, but allowing casting 2 spells in a turn with Quicken spell is a real balance upset compared to PnP. Hard to see how wizards are supposed to compete with that, especially as their flexibility advantages are lessened in cRPGs anyway. But we can hope that this will become visible in testing, I just think it is very obvious. Just think how powerful opening with double web or double fireball would have been in BG and add something extra due to precise targeting in turn based combat.
And the extra weapon abilities are very Larian and not very D&D.
Yeahh. I second, third and fourth this. I have a 5e table top game going with a sorcerer, and for a few games, I didnt understand that a quickened spell can only be a cantrip. It made encounter design really hard when fights started off with 2 fireballs in a row.
- twinned haste, twinned invisibility, twinned hold person/monster,... are pure evil. Also , the only way in 5e to maintain two concentration spells at once.
-Empower burning hands/fireball/etc -> Self-explanatory. Your kaboom has an extra booooooom.
-Distant vampiric touch, cure wounds, Bestow Curse etc.... -> touch spells delivered from a safe distance and watch enemies die from a distance while you have some tea and scones in the tavern.
-Careful Fireball, Darkness, Confusion, Stinking Cloud, Ice Storm. -> What is that "friendly fire" the wizs are talking about? Is it tasty?
Sorcs have a way to make the DM life more complicated, so I assume you can make some pretty crazy stunts in the videogame.
Right now in BG3 the Sorcerer gets more metamagic abilities earlier than in RAW and Quicken spell is much more powerful as it allows to cast any spell twice per turn, including AoE spells. It doesn't do that in RAW.
Two spells of your choice in a turn will be horribly hard to balance around, we already discussed the alpha-strike issue before and this makes it worse.
A 5th level Sorcerer will be able to deal 16d6 AOE damage in the 1st turn of combat.
By the way, with careful spell per RAW you just succeed at your saving roll automatically, so careful fireball still does half damage to your party. It's worth noticing that evoker wizards have a more powerful version that does not cost resources & gives half damage with a failed saving roll and zero damage if you save.
So with fireball and icestorm the evocation wizard is better off - even before he gets Overchannel. So the evocation wizard is better at evocation spells but can't use his extra abilities on most CC spells.
Same with two concentration spells. What do you mean? There are no concentration cantrips (are there?) And if you twinned Haste and then lose concentration, I am pretty sure both affected characters will lose Haste.
And it's been in the game forever in another form, i.e. speed potions, which simply give you another full action per turn.
Exactly, he meant in Bg3, unlike in PnP you can use quicken to cast 2 spells ( 2 fireballs, 2 lighting bolts, etc) one as a
bonus action and the other as a standard action. You do not have (at least in the EA) the limitation of only one spell per turn, plus a cantrip or other action. What "Quicken" does is convert a spell in a bonus action so you usually are limited by that rule. It´s not the case in the EA.
And that without the Action surge you could get later when you can multiclass to fighter 2, that would make it three fireballs in a row. Or use speed potions, haste, etc.
There are people even saying you can use the rogue thief bg3 ability to have 2 bonus actions per turn to add even another hit to the mix. (Didn´t try. Neither the fireball thing since you do not have level 5 in the game without mods)
I assume it´s an EA thing.
And quicken It's not available at the 2nd level because your maximum sorcery points are only 2 at that level. But you can pick quicken at level 3 (I wonder if it´s for playtesting or that would be a thing because in PnP you do not get 3 metamagic until level 10) so you can cast two shatter or two webs at level 4...
With that augmented cost maybe they want to make a trial run in the EA, see how it goes with the "quicken makes you cast two spells" and maybe you will have that in the final version of the game.
I dont know. I think there's a fair chance they'll fix it. People on here were convinced the Height = automatic advantage thing would never get fixed, and it has. Pushing has also been made less desirable (loss of loot, and enemies moved to prevent cheese push kills). IIRC, surface effects have also been lessened (which is something we can all agree is a core pillar of what Larian wants to do. So if they're lessening that, then there probably are no sacred cows).
I do believe Larian might leave in some way for a caster to cast two spells in one round (aside from the Multiclass action surge one), but I kind of doubt that they're going to leave it as a fundamental part of the sorcerer kit.
Edit: While I've had my issues with some of Larian's timeframe and presentation of material, I've been pretty impressed with their fixing of mechanics within the game to better suit what the community wants
Having played the new version my impression is more mixed. I agree that they did change quite a few things because of player requests, but at the same time they reintroduce the same kind of stuff via other avenues later on.
Cases to point the new weapon effects. And a bit more typical for Larian, look at the Chromatic Orb spell which was only recently added: the damage gets nerfed from 3d8 to 2d8, but it creates... guess what? An elemental surface of course! Including the lightning version basically creating an electrified puddle.
So there's progress in some ways, but they still persist in adding the same type of stuff in different ways.
The spell is very different in AD&D vs 5th
http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/spell:chromatic-orb
But yeah, I could do without the surfaces and take plain elemental damage instead