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Baldur's Gate III released into Early Access

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  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,435
    I'm a big fan of the timers in Kingmaker and even the original Fallout. Yes, I agree that it cuts against completionist playstyles, and that's the CRPG playstyle I favor. But the timers are a large part of what gives both these games their replay value.

    The limited amount of time meant that you would explore different areas on subsequent playthroughs. This helped make the world feel richer, as there were new spots to discover even after having sunk 100+ hours into the game. But not only that, additionally, you were rewarded by being able to do more as you got a better mastery of the game.

    And I can't speak too much to Fallout, since it's been so long, but once you got the hang of Kingmaker, the timers ultimately ended up just being rest spam prevention, or maybe a soft cap on how far you could advance your kingdom stats. And I actually loved that the timers were dynamic in Kingmaker, not just a simple pass-fail thing, but you could get even better mainline quest outcomes by solving issues early. Again, adding great depth to replayability.

    JuliusBorisovArvia
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 833
    edited July 14
    In PF:Wotr the owlcat devs abandon in a way the continuous time constraints and the timelines to add thrill to the game; It makes sense since it´s a different campaign with different objectives.

    but they still have some time limitations. Crafting and other mechanics are time-based. If you rest too much you can be affected by the demonic plague, if you have all the time in the world you can craft everything so it takes time and effort to craft. you´ll be managing a magic shop instead of playing an adventure if not, he he.

    Still, I feel WoTR more relaxed than the previous game and it´s great because the game has much more dialogue and npc interaction and more out-of-combat mechanics that could keep you occupied when you´re not dungeoneering.

    I do not know how the crafting is going to work in bg3 but it would be great if they take some guidelines from other games like PF.

    DinoDinmlneveseJuliusBorisovArvia
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,435
    edited July 15
    Yeah, one thing to clarify from above, but also ties into the subsequent points here. I'm not saying every CRPG has to have timers. But timers help create an interesting challenge in a game with resting mechanics. As posters just now said, Kingmaker had a fascinating boost system. And spell slot management was key. But, imo, these things were only fun and interesting because they worked in concert with the challenge of having to complete quests in a certain time limit. Thus managing your rests and the benefits they gave you.

    I hope Larian thinks about these things with BG3. As Skatan says, PoE didn't quite think through the consequences of their no-cost rest mechanics. And that'd be an unfortunate oversight to do in BG3. There has to be some cost alongside the benefits of resting. Otherwise players will spam rests, and it kills the importance of so many other aspects, like spell slots.

    ArviaPsicoVic
  • PsicoVicPsicoVic Member Posts: 833
    edited July 15
    Hotfix #5 is on!
    https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1086940/view/4695549702073670252

    Plenty of things in there, but to stay on topic, they included the new camp mechanics. Now you need supplies to rest and you have new camps in the wilderness.
    More importantly, food does not provide healing anymore, it is considered "supplies" needed for resting. So camping and spell management became more important since you do not have easy, free ways to heal your characters anymore.


    Also they addressed a long-time request: they separated jump and disengage, but more importantly, now jump causes the enemy to make an attack of oportunity against you, but disengage do not, as in PnP.
    Not only that, now enemy humanoids will use the Dash, Jump, Throw, Shove like player characters.
    They also will chase you from portals.

    So, no more outruning or "out-heighting" the enemies hiding your mages in cliffs.
    They also reduced PC speed, midgets now only have 7m of land speed and Wild elves 9m. Now the fleet-footed barbarians and monks (when they come out) would be more useful.

    Now you can have in the camp together
    the Owlbear and the dog , it does not eat the dog anymore
    , they made a cute scene with them XD

    Many more things added. I´m more excited about the new content for shadowheart and the backgrounds.

    Downloading times are still long. 64gb in GOG, and expect the mods do not work anymore but still this patch seems to be worth it.






    ArviaJuliusBorisovMirandel
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,301
    edited July 15
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    I concur the new mechanics about long rests and camping would reminisce the PF:K mechanics, indeed; but to be fair the PF videogames have time restrictions, and in BG3 (Despite the plot of "I need to get rid of the tadpole fast!") at least in the beta you can take all the time you want to explore the world, talk to people, etc. so I do think that even it could make the game more challenging, it does not make it much more difficult ( You also have cheap, easy ways to heal yourself like food, rests are mostly to regain spells and abilities and some classes/subclasses -wizards, warlocks, land druids, rogues, fighters- could resuply with short rests).

    The camping 2.0 makes camping more interesting, tho, having to find supplies and with new camps in the wild.

    The time restrictions in Kingmaker are really punitive if you are the type of person who enjoys clearing maps. We know there was character specific quest timers in the original BG, but losing Kivan isn't going to ruin anyone's run. Frankly, even though it's probably 3-4x more time than you actually need, I never liked the water-chip timer in Fallout either. Even though it's apples and bowling balls, I've been playing a ton of Borderlands 2 lately, and I also hate the timed quests in that game. Overall, I just don't like timers. They're stressful. Camping supplies, however, I think are a absolutely great way to add needed restrictions to balance difficulty. But don't put me on a stop-watch.

    Yea I lost interest in Kingmaker and the time restrictions was certainly one of the reasons

    mlneveseBelgarathMTHZaxares
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,301
    I know it's still in testing (so I'm sure this is why) but darn I wish they would let you skip the intro in BG3.

    Like it would be better if there more options. You can speed run through it but I like my loot. :)

    mlnevese
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,632
    I took a very cursory glance through the posted changes, and there are a lot of things in there that were repeatedly asked for in this (and other threads).

    Things like Backstabbing no longer provides advantage. Shove now considers the user's strength and the opponent's weight. This is in addition to the topline changes about camping/consumables and jump/disengage

    Honestly, it all looks good. Taken at face value, this patch seems like it aimed to improve the AI and to remove the gimmicks that some people complained about, or at least alter them to make them less gimmicky.

    mlneveseMirandel
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,203
    elminster wrote: »
    I know it's still in testing (so I'm sure this is why) but darn I wish they would let you skip the intro in BG3.

    Like it would be better if there more options. You can speed run through it but I like my loot. :)

    A dungeon be gone-like mod will probably be very popular in the future.

    elminster wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    PsicoVic wrote: »
    I concur the new mechanics about long rests and camping would reminisce the PF:K mechanics, indeed; but to be fair the PF videogames have time restrictions, and in BG3 (Despite the plot of "I need to get rid of the tadpole fast!") at least in the beta you can take all the time you want to explore the world, talk to people, etc. so I do think that even it could make the game more challenging, it does not make it much more difficult ( You also have cheap, easy ways to heal yourself like food, rests are mostly to regain spells and abilities and some classes/subclasses -wizards, warlocks, land druids, rogues, fighters- could resuply with short rests).

    The camping 2.0 makes camping more interesting, tho, having to find supplies and with new camps in the wild.

    The time restrictions in Kingmaker are really punitive if you are the type of person who enjoys clearing maps. We know there was character specific quest timers in the original BG, but losing Kivan isn't going to ruin anyone's run. Frankly, even though it's probably 3-4x more time than you actually need, I never liked the water-chip timer in Fallout either. Even though it's apples and bowling balls, I've been playing a ton of Borderlands 2 lately, and I also hate the timed quests in that game. Overall, I just don't like timers. They're stressful. Camping supplies, however, I think are a absolutely great way to add needed restrictions to balance difficulty. But don't put me on a stop-watch.

    Yea I lost interest in Kingmaker and the time restrictions was certainly one of the reasons

    I had to completely change my play style because of the timers. I couldn't explore everything as I usually do.

    elminster
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,301
    edited July 16
    I was playing it with the new patch. I'm really remembering what I don't like about the UI.

    There are like 4 different "character" buttons. Some handle inventory while others handle stats or spells.

    I never know if I'm pressing the right one.

    Not only that but all the buttons in the UI are so small. I'm not even that old but it's hard for me to differentiate between them because of this. There also doesn't seem to be any way to increase their size (which is kind of baffling to me).

    Arvia
  • CahirCahir Member, Moderator, Translator (NDA) Posts: 2,788
    elminster wrote: »
    I was playing it with the new patch. I'm really remembering what I don't like about the UI.

    There are like 4 different "character" buttons. Some handle inventory while others handle stats or spells.

    I never know if I'm pressing the right one.

    Not only that but all the buttons in the UI are so small. I'm not even that old but it's hard for me to differentiate between them because of this. There also doesn't seem to be any way to increase their size (which is kind of baffling to me).

    I'm not fond of the UI too. Fortunately, we are probably not the only ones who don't like it, since Sven said they are working on UI overhaul. Thankfully, Larian listens to the feedback. I hope new UI will look much better.

    elminsterDinoDinArvia
  • energisedcamelenergisedcamel Member Posts: 105
    I finally caved and got it, because full-length games normally intimidating me, so the fact that only the first act is available is actually pretty ideal (and I was always gonna give it a go eventually, despite my reservations).

    I'm going into it fully aware that this is not and never will be similar to the original games, but I was hopeful that once I started to play, I might feel some of the same excitement I felt (and still feel) playing the OG games. However, after playing around for a bit, I'm yet to feel it. As others have said, the tone is really different, and many of the things I love about BG are missing.

    I don't care about RTwP, really, but it drives me insane that I can't pause ever (as far as I'm aware). I just survived a gruelling fight where my team got poisoned, and after the turn-based combat was over, the poison started wracking up really quickly, before I could cure anyone (let alone try and help any of them failing their saving throws). Does anyone have any advice on what I'm supposed to do in situations like that?

  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    Is it really not possible to pause the game at all? Please can someone confirm this, because if it is the case then I won't even bother following this thread, let alone buy the game.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,017
    You can toggle in the turn-based mode even outside of combat (by hitting Space).

    dunbarenergisedcamelMusignyArvia
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    dunbar wrote: »
    Is it really not possible to pause the game at all? Please can someone confirm this, because if it is the case then I won't even bother following this thread, let alone buy the game.
    Yes this is correct. They allow you to activate TB mode whenever as a substitute for pausing, but it is an extremely poor substitute and does not really help in many situations where you'd want to be able to pause the game.

    Musignydunbar
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    I don't care about RTwP, really, but it drives me insane that I can't pause ever (as far as I'm aware). I just survived a gruelling fight where my team got poisoned, and after the turn-based combat was over, the poison started wracking up really quickly, before I could cure anyone (let alone try and help any of them failing their saving throws). Does anyone have any advice on what I'm supposed to do in situations like that?

    Julius already gave you the main correct answer.
    I just want to add that you may face another inconvenient situation. You cannot control a character in dialog mode. The solution is to use the button allowing you to select another character who may then perform the required action.
    You may experience a weird situation combining several issues, such as a character "trapped" in dialog mode and subject to damage over time. Hopefully rare, but this happened to me.

    You may also experience tons of strange things when the game enters the combat mode itself (and thus a turn based mode). This is a clear weakness in this game, probably the most non sensical implementation I know. However I also know I am super sensitive when it comes to combat experiments. It is probably not too detrimental to most players.

    kanisatha
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    edited August 5
    Nice.

    About Jaheira
    I do not keep track of every single news coming from data mined sources but it seems that Jaheira is in the game.
    I have no valid clue about how she looks like but there are two things that come to mind.
    She may look like her DnD 5e heroes of Baldur's Gate incarnation but it seems Larian has its own idea about the matter. No guarantee about the veracity of the exposed information

    The supposedly Jaheira character is also at 0:37, in case you want to see her and nothing/no one else.

    energisedcamelZaxares
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    And by the way, the next major patch is expected to deliver UI improvements.

    energisedcamelBallpointManSjerrie
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,209
    edited August 5
    Musigny wrote: »
    Nice.

    About Jaheira
    I do not keep track of every single news coming from data mined sources but it seems that Jaheira is in the game.
    I have no valid clue about how she looks like but there are two things that come to mind.
    She may look like her DnD 5e heroes of Baldur's Gate incarnation but it seems Larian has its own idea about the matter. No guarantee about the veracity of the exposed information

    The supposedly Jaheira character is also at 0:37, in case you want to see her and nothing/no one else.

    It may be the art style but she looks quite young for a half-elven woman past her 150th year.

    Musigny
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    Again I do not claim this is Jaheira but this is plausible.

    There may be several options to answer your comment. One seems quite obvious to me.
    A DnD 2e Jaheira may not look that fresh but in DnD 5e high level druids (lvl 18) gain Timeless Body
    Starting at 18th level, the primal magic that you wield causes you to age more slowly. For every 10 years that pass, your body ages only 1 year.

    SjerrieSkatan
  • SjerrieSjerrie Member Posts: 1,209
    Musigny wrote: »
    Again I do not claim this is Jaheira but this is plausible.

    There may be several options to answer your comment. One seems quite obvious to me.
    A DnD 2e Jaheira may not look that fresh but in DnD 5e high level druids (lvl 18) gain Timeless Body
    Starting at 18th level, the primal magic that you wield causes you to age more slowly. For every 10 years that pass, your body ages only 1 year.

    That's true, but if it is her, then I expect her to be at least lvl 18. :p

    Musigny
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,017
    Sjerrie wrote: »
    Musigny wrote: »
    Nice.

    About Jaheira
    I do not keep track of every single news coming from data mined sources but it seems that Jaheira is in the game.
    I have no valid clue about how she looks like but there are two things that come to mind.
    She may look like her DnD 5e heroes of Baldur's Gate incarnation but it seems Larian has its own idea about the matter. No guarantee about the veracity of the exposed information

    The supposedly Jaheira character is also at 0:37, in case you want to see her and nothing/no one else.

    It may be the art style but she looks quite young for a half-elven woman past her 150th year.

    That might or might not change in the final version. Lots of in-game models and looks right now are WIP or even placeables. So I wouldn't look too much into that at this stage.

    SjerrieMusignyArvia
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    You'd think after 20 years of playing the originals, my go to reaction would be to hit the space bar, but apparently the depths of my stupidity know no bounds! I guess I just didn't even consider that entering turn-based mode would help, but now that you mention it, it seems obvious. Thanks! I'm sure this is the first dumb question of many.
    Julius already gave you the main correct answer.
    I just want to add that you may face another inconvenient situation. You cannot control a character in dialog mode. The solution is to use the button allowing you to select another character who may then perform the required action.
    You may experience a weird situation combining several issues, such as a character "trapped" in dialog mode and subject to damage over time. Hopefully rare, but this happened to me.

    You may also experience tons of strange things when the game enters the combat mode itself (and thus a turn based mode). This is a clear weakness in this game, probably the most non sensical implementation I know. However I also know I am super sensitive when it comes to combat experiments. It is probably not too detrimental to most players.

    Good to know. Luckily I've been abusing the quick save button, so I hope nothing like that will be more than a minor inconvenience. I'm sure they'll iron out the kinks in time. I
    But keep in mind that entering TB combat mode as the substitute for pausing means that you have all the restrictions and limitations of being in combat when in that mode, even though you are not actually in combat and instead are in exploration. For example, your access to your inventory is limited just like in combat. You cannot change out your equipment. You have to take "actions" for your characters just like in combat and in your initiative order. And NPCs/monsters some distance away from you are not in combat mode with you, so they will keep moving and doing whatever they are supposed to be doing. Time does not stop universally.

    SjerrieMusigny
  • energisedcamelenergisedcamel Member Posts: 105
    edited August 6
    kanisatha wrote: »
    But keep in mind that entering TB combat mode as the substitute for pausing means that you have all the restrictions and limitations of being in combat when in that mode, even though you are not actually in combat and instead are in exploration. For example, your access to your inventory is limited just like in combat. You cannot change out your equipment. You have to take "actions" for your characters just like in combat and in your initiative order. And NPCs/monsters some distance away from you are not in combat mode with you, so they will keep moving and doing whatever they are supposed to be doing. Time does not stop universally.

    Yeah, it's kind of weird. It's also very strange for the game world to continue, even when you go to the settings menu. A few times I've told a character to interact with something/someone far away, hit ESC to go to the menu (thinking it will pause), and when they arrive at the destination, it drags me out of the menu to a cutscene, etc.

    I didn't realise before I created my first character (dex-based halfling warrior, who I made thinking of the character, not build optimisation) that EA doesn't have access to difficulty settings. It's making me realise how bad I am combat. I nearly always play on easy the first time I start up a new RPG. If anyone has any (general) tips, I'm all ears.

    kanisatha
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,027
    edited August 6
    I didn't realise before I created my first character (dex-based halfling warrior, who I made thinking of the character, not build optimisation) that EA doesn't have access to difficulty settings. It's making me realise how bad I am combat. I nearly always play on easy the first time I start up a new RPG. If anyone has any (general) tips, I'm all ears.

    It's difficult to answer because people who have been playing the EA a lot may not realise how much meta data they inject into their comments and answers.
    One tip though, as a general guideline. Larian is obsessed with verticality, therefore do not hesitate to use the highgrounds to your advantage.
    Plenty of encounters are based on a nice idea with an extra scenarisation. However, at this stage, it looks like Larian hasn't written down a stat block for most of the encounters, not even a quick challenge rating.
    Example: In a tabletop session, 4 lvl3 players are not really expected to face 3 ogres. And somehow, in the game, if you directly confront them, chances are you'll end up humiliated. However if you use the roof (+ rooftop cover) this becomes a no match.
    I am unsure about what Larian attempts to do but the overall feeling is that their combat balance is yet to be attuned so don't blame yourself.

    energisedcamel
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