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Baldur's Gate III released into Early Access

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  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,330
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sure. And that's why we have AAA D&D games currently being made by studios named Tuque Games, Hidden Path Entertainment, and OtherSide Entertainment. As I have suspected for some time, I think it is rather clear that a lot of the rah-rah BG3 stuff people have been posting is actually all about rah-rah Larian. Well, I'll be blunt by saying that for me Larian is a subpar studio that makes subpar games. People "raving" about the D:OS games means nothing to me, because people rave about all kinds of silly and ridiculous things in today's society.

    It has nothing to do with being a cheerleader for Larian. If anything, it's my natural instinct to reject the gaming community's tendency to wallow in negativity as a hobby more enjoyable to some than actually playing games. It isn't limited to Baldur's Gate 3.

    Yep, if this was RPGCodex there'd be a few wallowing in negativity about some other aspect of BG3, as opposed to its TB combat or whatever. If some folks wanna stay unsatisfied about the game, that's fine. No Larian "cheerleader" here or elsewhere is going to change your mind.

    But, there are some undeniable facts. The praise for the OS games -- right now -- is basically equivalent to the praise the IE games got on release. Near universal critical acclaim from fans and critics. Copycat-ing and praise from other professional studios in the genre. All for a studio that was relatively unknown prior to their release. Time will tell if Larian's style of RPG's have the longevity of the IE games. But they're undeniably off to a strong start.

    Also, I always feel like a weirdo in some of these debates on here, as someone who pretty much appreciates all of the new generation RPG's. I struggle to understand why some gamers are so mad about "today's society". There has never been a better time for this subgenre.

    BallpointManJuliusBorisov
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,170
    Let me say that I absolutely hate elemental surfaces, I think it's absurd they will do more damage and are more troublesome to deal with than Alchemist's fire that just require a DC 10 Dex check to extinguish. Also, a fire elemental surface will deal around twice the damage of Alchemist Fire/round.

    And yet I really like the preview of BG3, it's a fun game that, for me, just got better when they removed some elemental surfaces. I would love if it would become an optional rule.

    ArviaJuliusBorisovSjerrie
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,695
    edited April 16
    DinoDin wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Sure. And that's why we have AAA D&D games currently being made by studios named Tuque Games, Hidden Path Entertainment, and OtherSide Entertainment. As I have suspected for some time, I think it is rather clear that a lot of the rah-rah BG3 stuff people have been posting is actually all about rah-rah Larian. Well, I'll be blunt by saying that for me Larian is a subpar studio that makes subpar games. People "raving" about the D:OS games means nothing to me, because people rave about all kinds of silly and ridiculous things in today's society.

    It has nothing to do with being a cheerleader for Larian. If anything, it's my natural instinct to reject the gaming community's tendency to wallow in negativity as a hobby more enjoyable to some than actually playing games. It isn't limited to Baldur's Gate 3.

    Yep, if this was RPGCodex there'd be a few wallowing in negativity about some other aspect of BG3, as opposed to its TB combat or whatever. If some folks wanna stay unsatisfied about the game, that's fine. No Larian "cheerleader" here or elsewhere is going to change your mind.

    But, there are some undeniable facts. The praise for the OS games -- right now -- is basically equivalent to the praise the IE games got on release. Near universal critical acclaim from fans and critics. Copycat-ing and praise from other professional studios in the genre. All for a studio that was relatively unknown prior to their release. Time will tell if Larian's style of RPG's have the longevity of the IE games. But they're undeniably off to a strong start.

    Also, I always feel like a weirdo in some of these debates on here, as someone who pretty much appreciates all of the new generation RPG's. I struggle to understand why some gamers are so mad about "today's society". There has never been a better time for this subgenre.

    Playing World of Warcraft while spending any time on YouTube channels about the game and the forums reveal quite clearly that people are willing to play a game for YEARS after they have clearly stopped enjoying it simply so they can endlessly shit on it. It's an MMO, it's a grind to keep you logged in. Been true since Everquest. Every patch for the last decade has more or less followed the same pattern. Yet every time one is a month late, or people blaze through content on release week like a cheetah on cocaine, they run to the nearest comment section to talk about how they aren't getting their $14.99 worth of enjoyment.

    I have often become disillusioned with the game, which means more to me personally than any other, mostly due to time-limited content that gets removed. When that has happened, I deal with it by taking the 30 seconds it takes to unsubscribe. Even given my feelings, I can never stay away for good. But there is an entire industry on YouTube that produces nothing but "the sky is falling" content about video games on a daily basis. It's all gotten so, so tiresome.

    BelgarathMTH
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,237
    Arvia wrote: »
    I understand people being frustrated because their expectations of BG3 weren't met, be it because they dislike the mechanics typical for Larian's design, or the adapted implementation of 5E rules, but I don't believe every new game from now on will be a copy of BG3, because history doesn't show this tendency, either.
    I agree with this, @Arvia. And in fact, I look forward to the release of such games as Solasta, P:WotR, Black Geyser, Avowed, and whatever AAA D&D game Hidden Path is making where I can happily post very positive things about those games. :smile:

    Sjerrie
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,575
    Ammar wrote: »
    Isn't acclaiming the game a pre-requisite for being considered a fan? If you look at fans of the BG franchise as a whole, then reactions are more mixed. It's true that critics are overwhelmingly positive on the game.

    I really feel that there is this very unkind tendency to see people who dislike this as some sort of grumpy old man who whine about the good old days and have nothing better to do than bitch about the game all the time. It's really hard to argue against that.

    That's fair. I do think there's a different ethos in the way these things are received, the difference in which causes a lot of friction.

    I dont personally want to play any and every RPG released these days. Some of them just arent "for me". Solasta is a good example - it seems to put emphasis away from storytelling and onto set piece room encounters that just doesnt interest me a lot. That said, I'm glad it's being made - and I dont want it to change to suit my interests. There's an audience for that kind of game, and they deserve it.

    So my net opinion on the existence of Solasta is very positive, even if I dont plan to play it. I would never accuse the studio making Solasta as being bad because they made a game that didnt specifically cater to my tastes. That's not the definition of a bad studio (or a bad game) in my opinion. I think therein lies a key difference that causes a lot of issues.

    To try and use a different example: I'm not a big fan of country music, but that doesnt mean I think country musicians are bad artists, and it doesnt mean I dont want them to have a platform and be successful. (and to speak to what @Arvia said, I dont worry about the possibility that every band will sound like them in 10 years)


    Also, I just want to be clear - I'm not accusing you of anything to the contrary of what I've posted above. I am saying that the ethos I have (and maybe others) creates friction with people who say something like "I dont like this feature of a game, and that means this game is bad". That's just philosophically antithetical to my point of view, irrespective of my excitement for BG3.

    It also doesnt mean that there isnt room to think there are plenty of things about BG3 (or any game) that dont meet one's expectations. As much as I like D:OS2, I do think elemental surfaces are overplayed. I do think the game is sometimes a little too cute and too glib. I think that while the story is compelling, I never felt super invested in Rivellion(sp?).

    DinoDinArviamlnevese
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,330
    To be fair, Ammar, I think you've been one of the more eloquent critics on here. Even though I took issue with your last description of combat encounters in OS, I still think you're one of the most fair-minded critics of BG3 on here.

    mlnevese
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,021
    I am late to the party.
    Funny to see a BG3 thread on the beamdog forums.

    I bought the game for a single reason and admitedly I am an extremist. I checked the game graphics / artistic level on streams after EA release and it revived my desire to see the Baldur's Gate City in 3D rendered/created by talented artists.
    And three playthroughs later, that's the only thing that still excites me.
    To be fair let's mention the lore elements injected here and there, much appreciated.

    I largely concur with @Ammar 's points.
    I think the BG3 writings are mediocre and the scenario falls flat after the prologue (at least for now). Moreover month after month, the game departs from the DnD rules.
    The UI, inventory, party management commands were disastrous and are still a pita.
    I bet the name itself probably attracted most of the initial customers, it is still a Baldur's Gate / Sword Coast license though but I am afraid that many people may feel cheated in the end.

    The studio argued about settings that should/should not be implemented but when it comes to tactical combat and all the DnD features associated with low level characters, another studio with a micro budget proved them wrong (Tactical Adventures - Solasta).

    If you look at Larian's combat AI, it's nice on paper. It manages the environment / movement / and has a huge system of weighted parameters to orientate the engine decision.
    It's probably impressive enough to convince journalists and other influencial third parties. By the way it performs very well when it comes to manage ultra basic advantages, movement, placement, verticality and how to deny these advantages to the opponents.
    But that's it. I am not aware of any in-depth tactical module based on this Divinity engine.
    Supposedly, by nature, it reduces or it can even suppress the need to develop tailored scripts. In reality the whole game layout is influenced by this simplistic urgent need of (over)verticality, surface, explosions, deceptive shove action, ridiculous jumps on steroid. This can be applied to and then negate the nature, richness and subtility of any tactical settings.
    In the end, even the most interesting fights feel very scripted (The Hag for instance) and ironically if you want to experience a real tactical fight, it often takes unusual efforts not to send your opponents flying in the void or deadly water (even if they have ten times your weight...) - the very last possible fight comes to mind.

    I still have high expectations for the game but certainly not as a tactical playground. Million miles away from Pillars of Eternity and even the archaic script engine in BG can provide better content.
    I may end up experiencing the whole game in a kind of story mode. I despise the video game trend that wants you to be the hero of a movie but this is what it is.

    NoonSjerrie
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