All good points, I also want to point out something that might make new players twitch. One of the big reasons BG1 was so successful on release was that it was considered the most accessible computer rpg on the market. Let that sink in a bit. It had a clear set of rules, it taught you contextually with little consequence (reloads only a keystroke away) and had a full fledged tutorial. The game made the tools and basic knowledge to play available to the player out the gate. But compared to modern games, this might as well be a harder dark souls.
Yeah, the beginning of BG is very unforgiving. Case in point, the lowly ?. I've lost more no-reloads to wandering wolves than I care to admit. In fact, forget about vampires, beholders, or even enemy mages, wolves have probably killed more of my Charnames than any other creature. They're super-fast and even trying to kite them can be difficult enough to lead to disaster (especially if you're kiting with your familiar). That's a hard-earned 65 xp!
I can understand the preference for being able to play without needing to reload, but I'm not sure I understand why such players wouldn't just play in story mode. Isn't that why it was added to the game?
I can understand the preference for being able to play without needing to reload, but I'm not sure I understand why such players wouldn't just play in story mode. Isn't that why it was added to the game?
It's not a matter of convenience usually. Most people who play no-reload do it as a challenge, so lowering the difficulty would contradict that idea.
But if you're referring to the fact that the original poster claimed you need to save-scum, i.e. reload a thousand times just to survive or get a decent outcome, that's what many people here were trying to prove wrong with their explanations and suggestions how to use the available tools the game is giving you.
So, the idea is that if you don't want to reload at all, you usually do it for the extra challenge, which story mode would make pointless, but story mode shouldn't be necessary for a dedicated and prepared player to get through a reasonably balanced game without reloading 100 times for every encounter.
And I suppose someone who thinks Stealth, scouting and using spells like Sleep are cheesy would think that even more about story mode.
I'm indeed not talking about no-reloaders, I'm talking about people like the OP who want to be able to go through the game blind without "save-scumming".
I mean, I played through SoD for the first time recently, on SCS Hardcore, without trying for a no reload, and only had to reload twice, so I hardly think constant reloads are inevitable without foreknowledge. I'm just questioning why people complain about the difficulty being too high while (seemingly) refusing to turn the difficulty down.
I have to agree. I have played through both BG1 and BG2 countless times and I really enjoy almost everything about the games. But what I enjoy most is the atmosphere: the characters, the music, the graphics, etc. I've never thought the battle system is any good and it only gets enjoyable once one gains meta knowledge about the encounters.
Now, what really is downright awful is the trap system. There's no excuse for how bad it is. Trap detection is so horribly slow that you tend to just walk over them before your thief gets a chance to detect them. Without auto-pause it's basically unusable unless you enjoy spending your time slowly walking a couple of meters at a time in every dungeon.
The battle system is enjoyable for me, knowing everything inside out (well, not that well compared to some here, but still). However, playing SoD for the first time I find myself swearing and wanting to smash my computer with a heavy sledgehammer. Every encounter just kills me (aggravated by my dualing a berserker to a worthless mage just before and being presented worthless companion NPC's). Enemies suddenly hit you as often as in ToB, AC seems to be of no use whatsoever. Also, suddenly, all enemies are smart à la Icewind dale, trying to kill your weak party members. It's ridiculous, and I can't fathom how someone would find this fun (for reference I do like Icewind dale, but it's all about combat so expectations are different... or something).
It turns into: oh, btw, traps -> you're dead OR "oh, surprise encounter" -> you're dead.
In SoD the dialogue and story seems mediocre, so it wouldn't help to use story mode either, I guess.
Thank god for eekeeper, which is what makes these games playable. Nowadays, I just modify my stats from the start and give myself a bag of holding and other quality of life improvements.
Sadly, mods don't work on Linux otherwise I would mod the game to high heaven.
I play these games out of nostalgia and language learning now that they've been translated. And with metagaming it's actually quite fun.
I do think there's a great deal of save-scummyness in the early parts of BG1 that you just don't see quite as much in later RPG's. Heck, even Icewind Dale did what it could to quickly get you to level 2. I still find this part of the game alot of fun on replays. As well there are some strengths to the long period it takes to level up.
But it's just worth noting that alot of subsequent RPG's went to great pains to design their games to be quite forgiving early on. The combination of how easy it is to lose a level one character (not even permadeath) coupled with how painful it is to drag their stuff back and pay for raise dead, that is a dynamic you don't see in other games.
While I think the original poster overstates this flaw a bit, I do think it's worth everyone here recognizing what it's like to play BG1, blind, and with the experience of some much more forgiving CRPG's.
I do think there's a great deal of save-scummyness in the early parts of BG1 that you just don't see quite as much in later RPG's. Heck, even Icewind Dale did what it could to quickly get you to level 2. I still find this part of the game alot of fun on replays. As well there are some strengths to the long period it takes to level up.
But it's just worth noting that alot of subsequent RPG's went to great pains to design their games to be quite forgiving early on. The combination of how easy it is to lose a level one character (not even permadeath) coupled with how painful it is to drag their stuff back and pay for raise dead, that is a dynamic you don't see in other games.
While I think the original poster overstates this flaw a bit, I do think it's worth everyone here recognizing what it's like to play BG1, blind, and with the experience of some much more forgiving CRPG's.
Inventory management (which in and of itself is a pain) is why I never resurrect NPCs. It's just easier to reload.
I think later games have solved this issue in a better way.
I really enjoy the early game survivability challenges, I think it makes for an interesting playthrough each time. The entire saga is almost a U-shaped curve in terms of high-stakes battles. The first wolf fight is basically like a 50/50 use-any-strategy-at-your-disposal type fight, which you don't see again until the boss fights or like Sendai/Ravager/Melissan... Obviously in the beginning you have like 2 options for strategy vs. limitless options once you get to TOB.
What other part of the game are you using up all the potions and wands you have out of necessity? Or kiting out of necessity because one hit will mess up your entire party? It's like Chapter 1 and not again until TOB endgame.
And being desperate for gold too? I like that. I remember accepting Kagain's quest for the 45 gold payout, knowing it would actually help. 45 gold becomes almost nothing after like 3 or 4 in-game days.
Then once you start leveling and getting companions, the fights become more by-the-book and survivability is more predictable.
As far as RELOADING, like many people have noted, there's a lot of middle ground between no-reload runs and guiltily "save-scumming" for ideal outcomes every encounter and most people pick what works for them.
Personally I don't think there's any (fun) way to do no-reload WITHOUT using some metagame knowledge, which for me personally is not a trade-off I want to make (I try to play more RP). However, I did stumble on something which I've been pleasantly surprised about: counting or logging reloads. Basically if I know I have to record the reload (and look back and say "I reloaded x number of times"), it provides me extra motivation to try to survive. Hard to explain, but it makes the reloads not feel "free" anymore, since I know it's being added to a long list that more or less refects how good of a player I am. Adds more thrill for sure. Not as much as a no-reload run, sure, but it gets closer.
I keep a thread going with my current playthrough...but this reload logging can even be done personally never to be shared. I can imagine it would have a similar effect. Almost like a bill or a debt or an asterisk to your playthrough that you want to constantly minimize.
Personally I don't think there's any (fun) way to do no-reload WITHOUT using some metagame knowledge, which for me personally is not a trade-off I want to make (I try to play more RP). However, I did stumble on something which I've been pleasantly surprised about: counting or logging reloads.
The first game I probably ever played with a "no-reload" mentality was Link to the Past on the SNES. I wasn't even aware enough to call it no-reload and these were pre-internet days. But the end credit scroll showed you a log of your number of deaths, and I worked and worked at getting that number lower. Until I did get it to zero. Really did end up changing the way I approached certain games.
I played through SoD for the first time recently, on SCS Hardcore, without trying for a no reload, and only had to reload twice
Congrats on doing that! I remember @semiticgoddess also completed SoD without reloads from the first attempt. However, IIRC, SCS doesn't affect anything in SoD, except for very small things.
The first game I probably ever played with a "no-reload" mentality was Link to the Past on the SNES. I wasn't even aware enough to call it no-reload and these were pre-internet days. But the end credit scroll showed you a log of your number of deaths, and I worked and worked at getting that number lower. Until I did get it to zero. Really did end up changing the way I approached certain games.
Yeah, Might & Magic games had a similar screen and this is where I first started to count reloads.
Congrats on doing that! I remember @semiticgoddess also completed SoD without reloads from the first attempt. However, IIRC, SCS doesn't affect anything in SoD, except for very small things.
Thanks, I had put off playing SoD for years because of all the... well, I'm sure you know. However, I ended up really enjoying the expansion.
2. Certain enemies have inbuilt near 100% resistance to spell interrupt, so they always cast their hold person etc
One of the OP's complaints about the game was that it is impossible to interrupt certain spellcasters. I had never noticed this before but a recent encounter with Corsone, the druid in Larswood, suggests he might have a point:
He has been hit by Khalid (twice) and Jaheira in the middle of casting the spell and yet still managed to get the spell off.
The system that determines whether a character will have their spells interrupted is really weird and nonsensical. It depends on which way the character is facing. How it works is that if a character is facing north, south, east, west, northeast, southeast, southwest, or northeast, their spells will be interrupted on damage, but if they're facing one of the directions in between (NNE, ENE, ESE, SSE, SSW, WSW, WNW, or NNW), then their spells can't be interrupted. It's definitely not a great system.
The system that determines whether a character will have their spells interrupted is really weird and nonsensical. It depends on which way the character is facing. How it works is that if a character is facing north, south, east, west, northeast, southeast, southwest, or northeast, their spells will be interrupted on damage, but if they're facing one of the directions in between (NNE, ENE, ESE, SSE, SSW, WSW, WNW, or NNW), then their spells can't be interrupted. It's definitely not a great system.
Damn. He can only have been a degree or two away from facing due east. I guess I was unlucky.
I wish I could have been listening in when the original developers came up with that system. It would be great to hear the reasoning that led to that decision.
Damn. He can only have been a degree or two away from facing due east. I guess I was unlucky.
I wish I could have been listening in when the original developers came up with that system. It would be great to hear the reasoning that led to that decision.
Characters can only face one of 16 directions, though mid-animation it can be difficult to determine exactly which they are currently facing.
Original game only had animations for 8 directions, and was more prone to crashes involving animations. Conjecture: If you were facing one of the other 8 directions it didn't support, it couldn't trigger the damage animation without crashing (as one didn't exist for that direction), so it was disabled.
Comments
It's not a matter of convenience usually. Most people who play no-reload do it as a challenge, so lowering the difficulty would contradict that idea.
But if you're referring to the fact that the original poster claimed you need to save-scum, i.e. reload a thousand times just to survive or get a decent outcome, that's what many people here were trying to prove wrong with their explanations and suggestions how to use the available tools the game is giving you.
So, the idea is that if you don't want to reload at all, you usually do it for the extra challenge, which story mode would make pointless, but story mode shouldn't be necessary for a dedicated and prepared player to get through a reasonably balanced game without reloading 100 times for every encounter.
And I suppose someone who thinks Stealth, scouting and using spells like Sleep are cheesy would think that even more about story mode.
I mean, I played through SoD for the first time recently, on SCS Hardcore, without trying for a no reload, and only had to reload twice, so I hardly think constant reloads are inevitable without foreknowledge. I'm just questioning why people complain about the difficulty being too high while (seemingly) refusing to turn the difficulty down.
Now, what really is downright awful is the trap system. There's no excuse for how bad it is. Trap detection is so horribly slow that you tend to just walk over them before your thief gets a chance to detect them. Without auto-pause it's basically unusable unless you enjoy spending your time slowly walking a couple of meters at a time in every dungeon.
The battle system is enjoyable for me, knowing everything inside out (well, not that well compared to some here, but still). However, playing SoD for the first time I find myself swearing and wanting to smash my computer with a heavy sledgehammer. Every encounter just kills me (aggravated by my dualing a berserker to a worthless mage just before and being presented worthless companion NPC's). Enemies suddenly hit you as often as in ToB, AC seems to be of no use whatsoever. Also, suddenly, all enemies are smart à la Icewind dale, trying to kill your weak party members. It's ridiculous, and I can't fathom how someone would find this fun (for reference I do like Icewind dale, but it's all about combat so expectations are different... or something).
It turns into: oh, btw, traps -> you're dead OR "oh, surprise encounter" -> you're dead.
In SoD the dialogue and story seems mediocre, so it wouldn't help to use story mode either, I guess.
Thank god for eekeeper, which is what makes these games playable. Nowadays, I just modify my stats from the start and give myself a bag of holding and other quality of life improvements.
Sadly, mods don't work on Linux otherwise I would mod the game to high heaven.
I play these games out of nostalgia and language learning now that they've been translated. And with metagaming it's actually quite fun.
But it's just worth noting that alot of subsequent RPG's went to great pains to design their games to be quite forgiving early on. The combination of how easy it is to lose a level one character (not even permadeath) coupled with how painful it is to drag their stuff back and pay for raise dead, that is a dynamic you don't see in other games.
While I think the original poster overstates this flaw a bit, I do think it's worth everyone here recognizing what it's like to play BG1, blind, and with the experience of some much more forgiving CRPG's.
Inventory management (which in and of itself is a pain) is why I never resurrect NPCs. It's just easier to reload.
I think later games have solved this issue in a better way.
What other part of the game are you using up all the potions and wands you have out of necessity? Or kiting out of necessity because one hit will mess up your entire party? It's like Chapter 1 and not again until TOB endgame.
And being desperate for gold too? I like that. I remember accepting Kagain's quest for the 45 gold payout, knowing it would actually help. 45 gold becomes almost nothing after like 3 or 4 in-game days.
Then once you start leveling and getting companions, the fights become more by-the-book and survivability is more predictable.
As far as RELOADING, like many people have noted, there's a lot of middle ground between no-reload runs and guiltily "save-scumming" for ideal outcomes every encounter and most people pick what works for them.
Personally I don't think there's any (fun) way to do no-reload WITHOUT using some metagame knowledge, which for me personally is not a trade-off I want to make (I try to play more RP). However, I did stumble on something which I've been pleasantly surprised about: counting or logging reloads. Basically if I know I have to record the reload (and look back and say "I reloaded x number of times"), it provides me extra motivation to try to survive. Hard to explain, but it makes the reloads not feel "free" anymore, since I know it's being added to a long list that more or less refects how good of a player I am. Adds more thrill for sure. Not as much as a no-reload run, sure, but it gets closer.
I keep a thread going with my current playthrough...but this reload logging can even be done personally never to be shared. I can imagine it would have a similar effect. Almost like a bill or a debt or an asterisk to your playthrough that you want to constantly minimize.
The first game I probably ever played with a "no-reload" mentality was Link to the Past on the SNES. I wasn't even aware enough to call it no-reload and these were pre-internet days. But the end credit scroll showed you a log of your number of deaths, and I worked and worked at getting that number lower. Until I did get it to zero. Really did end up changing the way I approached certain games.
Congrats on doing that! I remember @semiticgoddess also completed SoD without reloads from the first attempt. However, IIRC, SCS doesn't affect anything in SoD, except for very small things.
Yeah, Might & Magic games had a similar screen and this is where I first started to count reloads.
Thanks, I had put off playing SoD for years because of all the... well, I'm sure you know. However, I ended up really enjoying the expansion.
One of the OP's complaints about the game was that it is impossible to interrupt certain spellcasters. I had never noticed this before but a recent encounter with Corsone, the druid in Larswood, suggests he might have a point:
He has been hit by Khalid (twice) and Jaheira in the middle of casting the spell and yet still managed to get the spell off.
Damn. He can only have been a degree or two away from facing due east. I guess I was unlucky.
I wish I could have been listening in when the original developers came up with that system. It would be great to hear the reasoning that led to that decision.
Original game only had animations for 8 directions, and was more prone to crashes involving animations. Conjecture: If you were facing one of the other 8 directions it didn't support, it couldn't trigger the damage animation without crashing (as one didn't exist for that direction), so it was disabled.