Scratch that, found out where she should be from another person's playthrough pics, but just not spawning for me. Probably a conflict with another mod or something.
Karp is an existing game character, but she random walks around the map so sometimes she can be a pain to find. She starts near the bottom west side, so is usually around there.
Possible bug report (for v3.3):
Guildmaster Baldwin refers to my protagonist as "Mifune" during the attack, even though that's not my protagonist's name:
Yes, thank you, that was a typo where I used my actual charname instead of <CHARNAME> This has since been fixed and will be corrected in the next release.
Typo: "when I intervined" in Gellana Mirrorshade's dialog.
Typo: "for ths position" in the spy's dialog.
Inconsistent spelling: "Keryokien: Medusa's Bite" (elsewhere that word is spelled "Kerykeion").
Possible item issue:
"Kerykeion: Stheno's Blade" [H_SW1H02.ITM] is a katana, yet does crushing damage. Is that intentional, or an issue with this mod, or an issue with my heavily-modded installation?
Possible script issue:
During "No Honor Among Thieves", Richard and his men arrived in the entrance chamber where my party was already talking to Eury, whereas Baldwin remained in his back-chamber. As a result, the screen kept switching back and forth between the two locations during the dialog: https://i.imgur.com/vPdYqsF.png https://i.imgur.com/v5NLImy.png
(The snake appeared in the entrance chamber, though.)
Might this be caused by the Tweaks Anthology component "Force All Dialogue to Pause Game" preventing part of the script from firing?
Is it intentional that during the "No Honor Among Thieves" ending, Saradin was nowhere to be seen, and I wasn't offered the guildmaster position like I was in the other ending?
Typo: "when I intervined" in Gellana Mirrorshade's dialog.
Typo: "for ths position" in the spy's dialog.
Inconsistent spelling: "Keryokien: Medusa's Bite" (elsewhere that word is spelled "Kerykeion").
Possible item issue:
"Kerykeion: Stheno's Blade" [H_SW1H02.ITM] is a katana, yet does crushing damage. Is that intentional, or an issue with this mod, or an issue with my heavily-modded installation?
Possible script issue:
During "No Honor Among Thieves", Richard and his men arrived in the entrance chamber where my party was already talking to Eury, whereas Baldwin remained in his back-chamber. As a result, the screen kept switching back and forth between the two locations during the dialog: https://i.imgur.com/vPdYqsF.png https://i.imgur.com/v5NLImy.png
(The snake appeared in the entrance chamber, though.)
Might this be caused by the Tweaks Anthology component "Force All Dialogue to Pause Game" preventing part of the script from firing?
Is it intentional that during the "No Honor Among Thieves" ending, Saradin was nowhere to be seen, and I wasn't offered the guildmaster position like I was in the other ending?
Awesome, thanks for the detailed report. This helps a lot.
All those typos are currently fixed.
The katana doing crushing damage is intentional due to its fusion with the Ogre Blade. I'll work on a better item description for it to better explain the lore.
Baldwin will MoveToPoint to the entrance area after you deliver the first Kerykeion piece to him. I think the problem is that its such a far walk that if you happen to leave the area before he gets there, I think he just reverts back to his original position. I'll work on this and make a different way for him to get there that is less variable.
Saradin peaces out when you attack the guild. He is a somewhat high ranking member in the Church of Mask and is only working with the Gorgon's Eye not for them. So when the battle ensues he gets the hell out of Dodge, and goes back to wherever it is he came from. I'm now tempted to add dialog with him after the battle to explain this.
Wow, this is incredible, thank you for taking the time to write all this, it seems like a lot of work!
I'm not sure if you were aware but I've been working on a massive rework/update of this mod that probably will be released by the end of the year. It adds almost double the amount of quests and dialog, including new areas and a joinable npc. A lot of previous quests have been reworked and rewritten, including almost all of the original dialog.
You did a fantastic job with the walkthrough, it really does mean a lot that you thought it was worthwhile and took the time to do so, and I'll totally help out with the edits when the time comes.
Wow, this is incredible, thank you for taking the time to write all this, it seems like a lot of work!
I'm not sure if you were aware but I've been working on a massive rework/update of this mod that probably will be released by the end of the year. It adds almost double the amount of quests and dialog, including new areas and a joinable npc. A lot of previous quests have been reworked and rewritten, including almost all of the original dialog.
I was thinking about starting a new playthrough with a Rogue including this mod. I take it from this that I should seriously consider waiting on that?
I was thinking about starting a new playthrough with a Rogue including this mod. I take it from this that I should seriously consider waiting on that?
Well I wouldn’t say to put your whole playthrough on hold for just this update, but for a first time playthrough of this mod the new version is objectively better quality, and has more content for thieves especially.
This is an excellent mod, among the handful of "must installs" for BGEE in my view. Thanks again for creating it!
A question regarding the upcoming expansion: will the new content be accessible to non-thieves as well? (Or thief companions in the party?)
Thanks!
I'm really glad you like it, thank you!
Your PC doesn't have to be a thief for the new content, but you will need a thief companion.
There's a small new black market area that is only accessible to thieves, and it's required to go to for at least one quest. Some of the dialog is just a bit different depending on if it's you who goes there or a companion.
A lot of the dialog in general, and journal entries, will also read a lot better if you're a rogue, but they're ambiguous enough to be that you could just be someone working with a thieves guild, giving you some affinity or connection to the arts.
The new NPC is sort of, kind of, romancable-ish, but only if you're a thief. It's a little odd how it works because all of her "talks" take place before she actually joins the party. She's still a work in progress though, so it's all subject to change.
And of course, the compendium books can only be used by thieves.
I ask because I just finished your mod (and am on the verge of finishing BG1) with a swashbuckler > mage (managed to buy and use all of the compendium books except the Wisdom one!). I loved the mod but since I'll be continuing with this PC through SoD, SoA, and ToB, I doubt that the next PC that I play though the series will be a thief. I'll need a change. But I also want to check out the new content!
(managed to buy and use all of the compendium books except the Wisdom one!)
Wow, so close, that's impressive!
Not sure if you knew, but there's a hidden powerful weapon you get from her if you manage to obtain them all. If you're playing EET I'd definetly recommend getting that last book! Otherwise at the end of BG1 I guess it won't really matter that much.
And yeah I understand the need for change, but yes you'll still be able to do everything without your main character being a thief. There's also better options for more good-aligned players this time around too.
Not sure if you knew, but there's a hidden powerful weapon you get from her if you manage to obtain them all. If you're playing EET I'd definetly recommend getting that last book! Otherwise at the end of BG1 I guess it won't really matter that much.
I'm glad I read this before defeating Sarevok!
Out of curiousity, I scrounged up enough for the last book (which I wasn't going to bother with, given that my PC only has a 10 WIS and an 11 wouldn't give him any benefit).
It is a very nice item indeed!
I'm not using EET but I will be going through SoD. The PC is specalized in this weapon, so it will come in quite handy.
I've updated this mod to version 4.0 adding some new quests and features.
The City Watch
In response to the escalating threat posed by the Gorgon’s Eye thieves guild, the residents of Beregost have established the City Watch. A new force, supported by the Flaming Fist, who patrol the streets to counter the guild's activities. Players who join the guild but find their activities not to their liking can now assist the City Watch in a raid against the guild's hideout.
New Quests
Ariosh: A substantial new storyline focusing on the darker aspects of street life in Beregost, coupled with the guild’s struggles against the City Watch. There is no possibility for a "good-alignment" redemption in its second half and therefore the latter is not mandatory to complete.
Rigaldo: Includes 2 new quests. The first is related to the guild's expansion in Nashkel, and the second involves a stolen tome from Candlekeep. Additionally, all of Rigaldo's earlier quests have been reworked for improvements.
Liedel: Three new bounties set in Baldur's Gate.
New Areas
The Fighting Pits: A strategic expansion to the Gorgon's Eye hideout, the Fighting Pits serve as a small 1v1 arena where players can challenge themselves to ascend the ranks and ultimately claim the title of champion. This addition serves as an auxiliary enterprise for the guild, supplementing the existing casino and brothel operations, and further diversifying its revenue streams.
The Gorgon’s Den: An extended area of Meredia’s brothel within the Gorgon’s Eye hideout. It offers explicit adult content due to a result of me getting carried away with the writing, and trying to make the guild’s operations more interactive. I honestly wouldn't recommend using this feature. It's best viewed as a background element that enhances the atmosphere and allure within the clandestine underworld of a thieves’ guild.
The Black Markets: Accessible from the Baldur's Gate thieves guild, this hidden marketplace is exclusive to only those skilled in the art of thievery. It offers rare and exotic items, such as useable traps and stat rings. It’s also a hub of information where secrets are traded. The Thief Compendium books are now located here and sold by Naga, a priestess of Mask.
NPC Interjections
Over 100 interjections from various NPCs have been incorporated, adding over 500 lines of new dialog. Some include banter with other NPC's in the party.
New portraits for all added NPCs.
New items.
Enhanced and extended dialogues.
Enhanced and extended item descriptions and journal entries.
Balancing and Fixes
Adjustments to the Shadow Thieves attack on Beregost.
Icon and item corrections.
Modifications to all Kerykeion weapons, now only +2 with fewer abilities.
Increased guild profit rewards based on risk levels.
Large monetary reward for siding with the Shadow Thieves.
In Progress (I need a break)
Two joinable NPC's, Liedel and Danika. Liedel is a bounty hunter with a special ability to create a unique trap once per day that's added into her inventory. Danika is going to be a new kit of either a thief or a thief/cleric involving the deity Mask in some fashion.
A third set of riddles from Zeda.
New exotic katana/wakizashi/ninjato weapons.
Voice work for some of the characters.
An impressive update for what was already one of the standout new(ish) bg1 mods.
I for one appreciate the kerykeion items being toned down a bit. There's nothing fun about getting a fancy new sword that's too strong to use.
I wasn't aware this release was coming so soon, when I wrote the walkthrough for version 3.3. Oh well...
I've now added an out-of-date notice to every section of this walkthrough, to guide the process of updating it. If there are any sections that are still up-to-date as they are, feel free to remove the notice from them (or tell me which ones they are, if you're not comfortable with wiki editing).
Also for new quests, just adding an empty section (with the quest name as its title) in the correct place, already helps as a first step.
Belatedly, my "review" of version 3.3 of the mod.
Spoilered, because I don't know how much of it is still relevant to version 4.x.
PRAISE:
Overall fun to play. It makes Beregost much more interesting, and makes you enjoy coming back there.
Well fleshed-out, and engages the player in lots of activities that a thieving guild would be involved in: Petty theft, mugging, heists, drug-dealing, strong-arming, blackmail, smuggling, kidnapping, assassinations... The BG2 Thieves Stronghold cannot compete with this!
Nice tie-in with the Shadow Thieves organization we know from BG2, while still being its own thing with its own backstory.
Creative and uncommon quests.
For example, tasking the party with pickpocketing the stun-guards off the guards in preparation for a heist, makes it feel like they're participating in something bigger. Most mods would have implemented a "heist" quest as just "Enter some house, disable the traps, and loot the chest!", which would feel much more mundane.
Cool area art and portrait choices; Cool quest titles.
CRITICISM:
Excessive use of `DayNight(MIDNIGHT)`.
This fast-forwards time to the next midnight, i.e. by up to 23 hours. The mod uses this in several places to ensure that it's night for quest scenes that would make more sense at night, or that look cooler at night.
The problem is that this comes unexpectedly, and takes control over the game time away from the player. I tend to consciously choose when my party travels or rests, and it can be confusing/annoying when it's suddenly half a day later without an in-game explanation. It might even break concurrently-active timed quests (from the base game or other mods)!
Note that I'm not complaining about cases where there is an in-game explanation, and ideally also a player choice. Like if an NPC says "Let's wait here together until midnight.", and the player can say "OK, let's do that." or "No, wait, I still have something else to do.", then that's perfectly fine.
Possible solutions:
Replace it with a trigger that checks for night-time. For example, does the Shadow Thieves attack have to happen the second you hand in the Borland quest? Couldn't it happen the next time you're in the den at night?
Alternatively, you could lessen the impact by first checking whether it's already night. This would at least remove extreme cases, like skipping 23 hours because it was 1 am.
Unnecessarily requiring some things to be done through dialog.
Especially assassinations. Why can't an evil player take a no-questions-asked policy to bounties, and sneak up on the target to backstab them? In this mod, bounty quests can only be completed the evil way by talking to the target and choosing the dialog option to slit their throat or turn them hostile - because without this, the quest variable doesn't get updated.
Missing non-evil paths in some quests.
Now this may be an unreasonable criticism, since a thieves guild is by nature a somewhat evil organization. But you've already added non-evil or less-evil alternatives in many places, so why not everywhere along at least the main quest-line?
The quests where I felt the most guilty conscience with a Chaotic Good party, were "Mugging in the Manor" and "Buried Treasure".
(In "Buried Treasure" there actually is a non-evil resolution to the Karp encounter, but you can't initially propose it - you have to start the conversation with blackmail, in order for the alternative option to come up.)
As you can see, these are minor criticisms.
Overall, this is a really good mod!
And I'm sure version 4 made it even better. I'll explore it to my next install.
Is there any way to get Danika to actually offer the trainings she mentions? I feel like I've gone through every dialogue loop and it's, well, a loop- she mentions she can train members but I'm not getting any offers of actual help
An impressive update for what was already one of the standout new(ish) bg1 mods.
I for one appreciate the kerykeion items being toned down a bit. There's nothing fun about getting a fancy new sword that's too strong to use.
Thanks! Yeah those items were some of the first ones I ever made, so naturally I went way overboard with them
I have some outlines for a bunch of +1 weapons with low tier niche abilities and I've found they are way more fun and interesting than super op stuff.
I wasn't aware this release was coming so soon, when I wrote the walkthrough for version 3.3. Oh well...
I've now added an out-of-date notice to every section of this walkthrough, to guide the process of updating it. If there are any sections that are still up-to-date as they are, feel free to remove the notice from them (or tell me which ones they are, if you're not comfortable with wiki editing).
Also for new quests, just adding an empty section (with the quest name as its title) in the correct place, already helps as a first step.
Thanks! And yeah sorry My goal was by the end of year, and I had started to lose steam and felt like I was at a good stopping point.
I have never done wiki editing but I will take a look. Either that, or I can make some type of outline and message you. One big difference in this update is that the quest pacing is a lot more structured. Quests come in blocks now where you essentially get a bunch at once and have to complete them all before moving on. Previously you could put off Liedel's bounties until before the finale, and the coin and escort quests could even be done afterwards, but now they have been incorporated into these different phases in the mod.
Is there any way to get Danika to actually offer the trainings she mentions? I feel like I've gone through every dialogue loop and it's, well, a loop- she mentions she can train members but I'm not getting any offers of actual help
No, she's all flavor text at the moment, providing 'strategy' and 'insight' to the guild to enhance their operations through Mask's teachings and the resources of the church. I'm currently working on her to be a joinable NPC.
Saradin has a little hidden exp quest if you're a thief and ask him about Mask, but it ends there for now.
Belatedly, my "review" of version 3.3 of the mod.
Spoilered, because I don't know how much of it is still relevant to version 4.x.
PRAISE:
Overall fun to play. It makes Beregost much more interesting, and makes you enjoy coming back there.
Well fleshed-out, and engages the player in lots of activities that a thieving guild would be involved in: Petty theft, mugging, heists, drug-dealing, strong-arming, blackmail, smuggling, kidnapping, assassinations... The BG2 Thieves Stronghold cannot compete with this!
Nice tie-in with the Shadow Thieves organization we know from BG2, while still being its own thing with its own backstory.
Creative and uncommon quests.
For example, tasking the party with pickpocketing the stun-guards off the guards in preparation for a heist, makes it feel like they're participating in something bigger. Most mods would have implemented a "heist" quest as just "Enter some house, disable the traps, and loot the chest!", which would feel much more mundane.
Cool area art and portrait choices; Cool quest titles.
CRITICISM:
Excessive use of `DayNight(MIDNIGHT)`.
This fast-forwards time to the next midnight, i.e. by up to 23 hours. The mod uses this in several places to ensure that it's night for quest scenes that would make more sense at night, or that look cooler at night.
The problem is that this comes unexpectedly, and takes control over the game time away from the player. I tend to consciously choose when my party travels or rests, and it can be confusing/annoying when it's suddenly half a day later without an in-game explanation. It might even break concurrently-active timed quests (from the base game or other mods)!
Note that I'm not complaining about cases where there is an in-game explanation, and ideally also a player choice. Like if an NPC says "Let's wait here together until midnight.", and the player can say "OK, let's do that." or "No, wait, I still have something else to do.", then that's perfectly fine.
Possible solutions:
Replace it with a trigger that checks for night-time. For example, does the Shadow Thieves attack have to happen the second you hand in the Borland quest? Couldn't it happen the next time you're in the den at night?
Alternatively, you could lessen the impact by first checking whether it's already night. This would at least remove extreme cases, like skipping 23 hours because it was 1 am.
Unnecessarily requiring some things to be done through dialog.
Especially assassinations. Why can't an evil player take a no-questions-asked policy to bounties, and sneak up on the target to backstab them? In this mod, bounty quests can only be completed the evil way by talking to the target and choosing the dialog option to slit their throat or turn them hostile - because without this, the quest variable doesn't get updated.
Missing non-evil paths in some quests.
Now this may be an unreasonable criticism, since a thieves guild is by nature a somewhat evil organization. But you've already added non-evil or less-evil alternatives in many places, so why not everywhere along at least the main quest-line?
The quests where I felt the most guilty conscience with a Chaotic Good party, were "Mugging in the Manor" and "Buried Treasure".
(In "Buried Treasure" there actually is a non-evil resolution to the Karp encounter, but you can't initially propose it - you have to start the conversation with blackmail, in order for the alternative option to come up.)
As you can see, these are minor criticisms.
Overall, this is a really good mod!
And I'm sure version 4 made it even better. I'll explore it to my next install.
This is amazing feedback, seriously thank you for taking the time to write this up.
Regarding the forced time changes - I kinda forgot that I did that, and you're absolutely right. Having the mod force advance time just because the scene plays better at night isn't good for a variety of reasons, and I will replace all instances of that. Thanks for bringing it up and for some good solutions.
Talking to bounty targets - I will change them all to allow players to kill them without the need for dialog, because that is a totally viable option that should be available. I've actually had this thought before myself, I just never got around to it I guess. It does look like I inadvertently changed some already in this update, out of the 9 available bounties, 5 can be killed without prior dialog.
Less evil options - This was tough, but I think I was able to make the choices more satisfying for non-evil players. This biggest offenders were Gerards, Karps, Borlands, and the lotus delivery. When I was reworking everything, and adding new quests, I came to the conclusion that some things are just going to be slightly evil, and if I wrote good options for them it would lessen the quests in a way. So for some, what I did instead was change the characters you're interacting with to be less good-natured people.
Gerard's quest was the hardest to spin because you are going there to convince him to pay protection money. I won't spoil it but I changed some elements to allow for different strategies of persuasion, and a blatantly good or evil choice for you at the end. He still might make you feel bad about it, but I rewrote him to sound more a like pompous dick to ease away some of that guilt. Also, I like the idea of a little more morally edgy quest here to make the player question if these are the kind of activities they want to get involved in, getting an early glimpse of life and responsibilities in the thieves guild.
Karp's quest was flawed with the fact that you had to be disingenuous first before getting to a good-aligned option. This has been changed in the new update where you can just begin by asking her about what's going on.
Borland's wasn't too bad, being that he was a drug dealer himself. I reworked this a little bit to flow better between the good choice of shutting his business down or the evil choice of having him pay the guild a cut.
Lotus smuggling - You can refuse this quest now and get a different one instead, as I couldn't think of a way to justify a good aligned player agreeing to smuggle and distribute drugs.
I really like your ideas and insights, and appreciate your review.
Thx alot for this awesome Mod! Really enjoyed the new content as of Version 3.3.
Anyways, your latest Versions 4.x are giving me Errors on my EET Install...
Hello, sorry for my English...at Post from @Kensei_xXx i see at the Photo you can use Point 6...German language, but when i download v4.2 and install there is only English, why? Thanks a lot
Comments
Karp is an existing game character, but she random walks around the map so sometimes she can be a pain to find. She starts near the bottom west side, so is usually around there.
Yes, thank you, that was a typo where I used my actual charname instead of <CHARNAME>
Possible item issue:
Possible script issue:
https://i.imgur.com/vPdYqsF.png
https://i.imgur.com/v5NLImy.png
(The snake appeared in the entrance chamber, though.)
Might this be caused by the Tweaks Anthology component "Force All Dialogue to Pause Game" preventing part of the script from firing?
The Gorgon's Eye walkthrough
Awesome, thanks for the detailed report. This helps a lot.
All those typos are currently fixed.
The katana doing crushing damage is intentional due to its fusion with the Ogre Blade. I'll work on a better item description for it to better explain the lore.
Baldwin will MoveToPoint to the entrance area after you deliver the first Kerykeion piece to him. I think the problem is that its such a far walk that if you happen to leave the area before he gets there, I think he just reverts back to his original position. I'll work on this and make a different way for him to get there that is less variable.
Saradin peaces out when you attack the guild. He is a somewhat high ranking member in the Church of Mask and is only working with the Gorgon's Eye not for them. So when the battle ensues he gets the hell out of Dodge, and goes back to wherever it is he came from. I'm now tempted to add dialog with him after the battle to explain this.
Wow, this is incredible, thank you for taking the time to write all this, it seems like a lot of work!
I'm not sure if you were aware but I've been working on a massive rework/update of this mod that probably will be released by the end of the year. It adds almost double the amount of quests and dialog, including new areas and a joinable npc. A lot of previous quests have been reworked and rewritten, including almost all of the original dialog.
You did a fantastic job with the walkthrough, it really does mean a lot that you thought it was worthwhile and took the time to do so, and I'll totally help out with the edits when the time comes.
Thanks again!
A question regarding the upcoming expansion: will the new content be accessible to non-thieves as well? (Or thief companions in the party?)
Thanks!
I'm really glad you like it, thank you!
Your PC doesn't have to be a thief for the new content, but you will need a thief companion.
There's a small new black market area that is only accessible to thieves, and it's required to go to for at least one quest. Some of the dialog is just a bit different depending on if it's you who goes there or a companion.
A lot of the dialog in general, and journal entries, will also read a lot better if you're a rogue, but they're ambiguous enough to be that you could just be someone working with a thieves guild, giving you some affinity or connection to the arts.
The new NPC is sort of, kind of, romancable-ish, but only if you're a thief. It's a little odd how it works because all of her "talks" take place before she actually joins the party. She's still a work in progress though, so it's all subject to change.
And of course, the compendium books can only be used by thieves.
I ask because I just finished your mod (and am on the verge of finishing BG1) with a swashbuckler > mage (managed to buy and use all of the compendium books except the Wisdom one!). I loved the mod but since I'll be continuing with this PC through SoD, SoA, and ToB, I doubt that the next PC that I play though the series will be a thief. I'll need a change. But I also want to check out the new content!
Wow, so close, that's impressive!
And yeah I understand the need for change, but yes you'll still be able to do everything without your main character being a thief. There's also better options for more good-aligned players this time around too.
I'm glad I read this before defeating Sarevok!
It is a very nice item indeed!
I'm not using EET but I will be going through SoD. The PC is specalized in this weapon, so it will come in quite handy.
In response to the escalating threat posed by the Gorgon’s Eye thieves guild, the residents of Beregost have established the City Watch. A new force, supported by the Flaming Fist, who patrol the streets to counter the guild's activities. Players who join the guild but find their activities not to their liking can now assist the City Watch in a raid against the guild's hideout.
New Quests
Ariosh: A substantial new storyline focusing on the darker aspects of street life in Beregost, coupled with the guild’s struggles against the City Watch. There is no possibility for a "good-alignment" redemption in its second half and therefore the latter is not mandatory to complete.
Rigaldo: Includes 2 new quests. The first is related to the guild's expansion in Nashkel, and the second involves a stolen tome from Candlekeep. Additionally, all of Rigaldo's earlier quests have been reworked for improvements.
Liedel: Three new bounties set in Baldur's Gate.
New Areas
The Fighting Pits: A strategic expansion to the Gorgon's Eye hideout, the Fighting Pits serve as a small 1v1 arena where players can challenge themselves to ascend the ranks and ultimately claim the title of champion. This addition serves as an auxiliary enterprise for the guild, supplementing the existing casino and brothel operations, and further diversifying its revenue streams.
The Gorgon’s Den: An extended area of Meredia’s brothel within the Gorgon’s Eye hideout. It offers explicit adult content due to a result of me getting carried away with the writing, and trying to make the guild’s operations more interactive. I honestly wouldn't recommend using this feature. It's best viewed as a background element that enhances the atmosphere and allure within the clandestine underworld of a thieves’ guild.
The Black Markets: Accessible from the Baldur's Gate thieves guild, this hidden marketplace is exclusive to only those skilled in the art of thievery. It offers rare and exotic items, such as useable traps and stat rings. It’s also a hub of information where secrets are traded. The Thief Compendium books are now located here and sold by Naga, a priestess of Mask.
NPC Interjections
Over 100 interjections from various NPCs have been incorporated, adding over 500 lines of new dialog. Some include banter with other NPC's in the party.
Number of Interjections / Lines per NPC:
Imoen: 31 / 127
Garrick: 15 / 66
Jaheira: 10 / 54
Edwin: 8 / 68
Neera: 8 / 46
Shar-Teel: 8 / 29
Viconia: 6 / 19
Alora: 5 / 27
Skie: 4 / 23
Safana: 4 / 16
Kagain: 4 / 11
Ajantis: 3 / 7
Minsc: 2 / 10
Xzar: 2 / 9
Khalid: 2 / 3
Montaron: 2 / 2
Rasaad: 1 / 6
Dorn: 1 / 3
Xan: 1 / 1
Eldoth: 0 / 5
Enhanced Gameplay and Features
New portraits for all added NPCs.
New items.
Enhanced and extended dialogues.
Enhanced and extended item descriptions and journal entries.
Balancing and Fixes
Adjustments to the Shadow Thieves attack on Beregost.
Icon and item corrections.
Modifications to all Kerykeion weapons, now only +2 with fewer abilities.
Increased guild profit rewards based on risk levels.
Large monetary reward for siding with the Shadow Thieves.
In Progress (I need a break)
Two joinable NPC's, Liedel and Danika. Liedel is a bounty hunter with a special ability to create a unique trap once per day that's added into her inventory. Danika is going to be a new kit of either a thief or a thief/cleric involving the deity Mask in some fashion.
A third set of riddles from Zeda.
New exotic katana/wakizashi/ninjato weapons.
Voice work for some of the characters.
I for one appreciate the kerykeion items being toned down a bit. There's nothing fun about getting a fancy new sword that's too strong to use.
Yes, those characters are gone now, but their inventories have been moved to the vendors in the new black market area.
I wasn't aware this release was coming so soon, when I wrote the walkthrough for version 3.3. Oh well...
I've now added an out-of-date notice to every section of this walkthrough, to guide the process of updating it. If there are any sections that are still up-to-date as they are, feel free to remove the notice from them (or tell me which ones they are, if you're not comfortable with wiki editing).
Also for new quests, just adding an empty section (with the quest name as its title) in the correct place, already helps as a first step.
Spoilered, because I don't know how much of it is still relevant to version 4.x.
For example, tasking the party with pickpocketing the stun-guards off the guards in preparation for a heist, makes it feel like they're participating in something bigger. Most mods would have implemented a "heist" quest as just "Enter some house, disable the traps, and loot the chest!", which would feel much more mundane.
CRITICISM:
The problem is that this comes unexpectedly, and takes control over the game time away from the player. I tend to consciously choose when my party travels or rests, and it can be confusing/annoying when it's suddenly half a day later without an in-game explanation. It might even break concurrently-active timed quests (from the base game or other mods)!
Note that I'm not complaining about cases where there is an in-game explanation, and ideally also a player choice. Like if an NPC says "Let's wait here together until midnight.", and the player can say "OK, let's do that." or "No, wait, I still have something else to do.", then that's perfectly fine.
Possible solutions:
The quests where I felt the most guilty conscience with a Chaotic Good party, were "Mugging in the Manor" and "Buried Treasure".
(In "Buried Treasure" there actually is a non-evil resolution to the Karp encounter, but you can't initially propose it - you have to start the conversation with blackmail, in order for the alternative option to come up.)
As you can see, these are minor criticisms.
Overall, this is a really good mod!
And I'm sure version 4 made it even better. I'll explore it to my next install.
Is there any way to get Danika to actually offer the trainings she mentions? I feel like I've gone through every dialogue loop and it's, well, a loop- she mentions she can train members but I'm not getting any offers of actual help
Thanks! Yeah those items were some of the first ones I ever made, so naturally I went way overboard with them
I have some outlines for a bunch of +1 weapons with low tier niche abilities and I've found they are way more fun and interesting than super op stuff.
Thank you!
Thanks! And yeah sorry
I have never done wiki editing but I will take a look. Either that, or I can make some type of outline and message you. One big difference in this update is that the quest pacing is a lot more structured. Quests come in blocks now where you essentially get a bunch at once and have to complete them all before moving on. Previously you could put off Liedel's bounties until before the finale, and the coin and escort quests could even be done afterwards, but now they have been incorporated into these different phases in the mod.
No, she's all flavor text at the moment, providing 'strategy' and 'insight' to the guild to enhance their operations through Mask's teachings and the resources of the church. I'm currently working on her to be a joinable NPC.
This is amazing feedback, seriously thank you for taking the time to write this up.
Talking to bounty targets - I will change them all to allow players to kill them without the need for dialog, because that is a totally viable option that should be available. I've actually had this thought before myself, I just never got around to it I guess. It does look like I inadvertently changed some already in this update, out of the 9 available bounties, 5 can be killed without prior dialog.
Less evil options - This was tough, but I think I was able to make the choices more satisfying for non-evil players. This biggest offenders were Gerards, Karps, Borlands, and the lotus delivery. When I was reworking everything, and adding new quests, I came to the conclusion that some things are just going to be slightly evil, and if I wrote good options for them it would lessen the quests in a way. So for some, what I did instead was change the characters you're interacting with to be less good-natured people.
Gerard's quest was the hardest to spin because you are going there to convince him to pay protection money. I won't spoil it but I changed some elements to allow for different strategies of persuasion, and a blatantly good or evil choice for you at the end. He still might make you feel bad about it, but I rewrote him to sound more a like pompous dick to ease away some of that guilt. Also, I like the idea of a little more morally edgy quest here to make the player question if these are the kind of activities they want to get involved in, getting an early glimpse of life and responsibilities in the thieves guild.
Karp's quest was flawed with the fact that you had to be disingenuous first before getting to a good-aligned option. This has been changed in the new update where you can just begin by asking her about what's going on.
Borland's wasn't too bad, being that he was a drug dealer himself. I reworked this a little bit to flow better between the good choice of shutting his business down or the evil choice of having him pay the guild a cut.
Lotus smuggling - You can refuse this quest now and get a different one instead, as I couldn't think of a way to justify a good aligned player agreeing to smuggle and distribute drugs.
I really like your ideas and insights, and appreciate your review.
Anyways, your latest Versions 4.x are giving me Errors on my EET Install...
Any ideas?
Thank you!
I just pushed a hotfix correcting this issue. Sorry about that!
Thanks in advance for your fast response. I'll check this out the next days, since I'm planning for a new EET Setup anyways.
Keep up the good work.