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[MOD] -Might and Guile- a tweak mod and kit pack for warriors and rogues.

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Comments

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    Can anyone find me the .CRE filename(s) for this Morwen NPC? I need to know which one should be patched.

  • UOLegacyUOLegacy Member Posts: 134
    I only meant that on the Nightsinger, the bard has a custom menu to choose spells directly from the weave as it's setup, so it was actually meant to have a clear spell book in the beginning.

    As far as the other bard kits, as from Bardic Wonders, the bard song can give up to a -10 in AC and super THAC0 for party members at level 21.

    Of course, the bards may still learn all of the spells that are automatically placed into their spell book from Might and Guile, I was just adding my opinion that they may want to wait on it and find the spells themselves to make it a little more challenging.

  • UOLegacyUOLegacy Member Posts: 134
    I personally consider this mod (Might and Guile) among the Top 5 must have mods.

  • UOLegacyUOLegacy Member Posts: 134
    edited October 2018
    It seems that I've ran into an unexpected problem with "Bardic Wonders".

    This changes a few things. Perhaps I WILL install MaG after Bardic Wonders now.. heh.

    But I still wish to keep the great Shadow Adept installed after MaG.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    edited October 2018
    Okay, I've finished up the new bard component, in v3.8. I've marked it as a pre-release because this is a MAJOR change and I don't want BWS users doing a casual reinstall to get a big surprise. But if anyone want to play with multiclass bards and sorcerer-casting bards, go ahead and give it a whirl. Let's call it a beta release.

    Here is the Readme entry for this new component:

    This component makes a fundamental change to the bard class, in three distinct ways. First, all bard kits (including the base Bard) are moved wholesale into the Thief class (which is renamed "Rogue"). This means that different kits can utilize different thief skills, instead of all bards all getting Pick Pockets and nothing else.

    Second, bard songs no longer necessarily prevent you from fighting or spellcasting. Now they work like 3E's "inspirations," and can (generally) keep working in the background for all your allies while you do other things. I've expanded the concept a slight bit and categorized the various bard songs into three categories:
    - Inspirations provide bonuses for your allies.
    - Emanations cause your enemies to suffer various penalties. Most emanations require intense concentration and will prevent the bard from spellcasting (and using other innate abilities) while they are in effect.
    - Auras create intense effects focused on the immediate vicinity around the bard's body. Most auras require intense concentration and will prevent the bard from spellcasting (and using other innate abilities) while they are in effect.

    The thief class UI has no dedicated bard song button, so instead they activate or deactivate bard songs from the "item abilities" button (it looks like a backpack). Bards will generally be able to acquire a handful of bard songs in your career (the exact umber depends on your kit); most kits begin the game with one inspiration or emanation, and gain another at 6th level. Bards can also learn more songs as feats, if you have installed the feats component in this mod; and they can additionally learn several songs from special sheet music scrolls that you find around the world.

    Here is the list of all songs available to learn:
    - Inspiration: Luck - allies have a bonus to Luck and saving throws.
    - Inspiration: Courage - allies are immune to fear effects.
    - Inspiration: Power - bonus to melee damage for allies (scales with level).
    - Inspiration: Blessing - allies are under the effect of a Bless spell.
    - Inspiration: Positive Energy - allies are under the effect of the spell Negative Plane Protection. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Inspiration: Death Ward - allies are under the effect of a Death Ward spell. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Inspiration: Reflections - allies get a single Mirror Image each round, which may absorb a melee attack. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Inspiration: Mind Shield - allies are immune to all magical mental effects such as Charm, Confusion, Feeblemind, etc. (This aura is intense - it disables both spellcasting and combat for the bard.)

    - Emanation: Interference - this aura causes ALL spellcasting in the area of effect (whether by friend or foe) to suffer a 65% chance of failure. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Emanation: Intimidation - this aura causes all enemies in an area of effect to suffer a -1 penalty to to-hit and damage rolls.
    - Emanation: Malison - this aura causes all enemies in an area of effect to suffer a -1 penalty to Luck and saving throws.
    - Emanation: Confusion - this causes all enemies in an area of effect to save each round or be Confused.
    - Emanation: Hold Undead - this reduces the movement rate of nearby undead creatures, and causes them to save each round or be Held. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Emanation: Entangle - this causes all enemies in an area of effect to save each round or be Entangled.

    - Aura: Blur - this provides the bard with the effects of the Blur spell. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Aura: Mind Blank - this renders the bard immune to all magical mental effects such as Charm, Confusion, Feeblemind, etc. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Aura: Invulnerability - this enfolds the bard in a very short-range Minor Globe of Invulnerability, preventing any spells of 1st to 3rd level from having direct effect. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Aura: Cloak of Fear - this causes all foes engaging in melee combat against the bard to save each round or be affected by Panic. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Aura: Slowing - this causes all foes engaging in melee combat against the bard to save each round or be temporarily Slowed. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Aura: True Vision - this causes all illusions which come into physical contact with the bard (a 3-foot radius around your center) to be dispelled. (This aura disables the bard's spellcasting.)
    - Aura: Maze - this HLA aura causes all foes engaging in melee combat against the bard to save each round or be temporarily Mazed.

    The third major change is in the way bards cast spells. Being in the thief class UI, they do not use the wizard spellbook or the "cast spell" button anymore. Instead bards learn and cast spells in the 3E style, similar to sorcerers. They can learn spells by means of a dialogue triggered by a "Spell Knowledge" innate ability; and they cast spells from the innate abilities button. The spells that bards can learn include a select list of sound-based spells, Illusion and Enchantment spells, and some cleric spells.

    As a consequence of those three changes to how bards work, there is a fourth change: this component enables multiclass bards! The new bards songs preclude use of the wizard spellbook so there cannot be mage/bards, but this component introduces fighter/bards (the Skald, the Gallant, and the Herald) and a cleric/bard (the Loresinger).

    In Spear of Dragonspear and BG2EE, the Bard's Hat magic item is modified. Now the hat radiates the basic bardic Luck inspiration. The bard wearing the hat can manifest a different aura, allowing you to get the benefit of two bard auras simultaneously.

    Compatibility: these changes are totally incompatible with the way all other bard kits work. I have not disabled the old bard class; instead you will see that it is called "2E Bard" in the class menu. If you install bard kits from other mods, like Song & Silence or Bardic Wonders, they will be available under the "2E Bard class and will function like unmodded bards; while at the same time, the nine kits in this component will be available under the Rogue, Fighter/Rogue, and Cleric/Rogue classes.

    ThacoBellGusinda
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    Aaaand, already updated with a bug fix. Now at 3.8.1.

    ThacoBell
  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 501
    Do the new Bards get Haste? It's a staple Bard spell, IMO.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    GawainBS said:

    Do the new Bards get Haste? It's a staple Bard spell, IMO.

    It's not on the list at the moment. But it would be easy to add if it makes sense.

    You can also add any spell to the list manually by editing might_and_guile/nubards/d5brdspl.2da
    https://github.com/UnearthedArcana/Might_and_Guile/blob/master/might_and_guile/nubards/d5brdspl.2da

    Just add the spell's IDS name (like "WIZARD_HASTE" followed by its spell level (which you can change) and a bunch of 1's separated by tabs. Then install the mod, and bards will get that spell. It's a pretty flexible setup, it accepts and thing in SPELL.IDS (so SPWI, SPPR, SPCL, and SPIN spells).

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,623

    Compatibility: these changes are totally incompatible with the way all other bard kits work. I have not disabled the old bard class; instead you will see that it is called "2E Bard" in the class menu. If you install bard kits from other mods, like Song & Silence or Bardic Wonders, they will be available under the "2E Bard class and will function like unmodded bards; while at the same time, the nine kits in this component will be available under the Rogue, Fighter/Rogue, and Cleric/Rogue classes.

    Not going to lie: this seems like a cool enough change that I may just want to disable the old bard for my own use. :D

  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 501
    Well, Haste can be seen as some sort of quickstep, up-tempo dance. And it gives an option to buff. I've always played Bards as precombat buffers, so that they can sing/fight in battle.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238

    Not going to lie: this seems like a cool enough change that I may just want to disable the old bard for my own use. :D

    I mean, you don't really need to. When I say I didn't disable it I only mean I left it in the menus. If you click "2E Bard" in the class menu you will be a vanilla Trueclass bard; none of the vanilla kits are available. If you click "Rogue" in the class menu you will see "Bard" and a bunch of bard kits.

    I could remove "2E Bard" from the menus altogether but then if you install the Shadow Magic mod, for instance, its bard kit would be unavailable. That seems kind of rude... I don't want to stop players from mixing and matching mods if that's what they want to do.

    ThacoBell
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,623
    edited October 2018

    Not going to lie: this seems like a cool enough change that I may just want to disable the old bard for my own use. :D

    I mean, you don't really need to.
    I know, but it's just sitting there: almost empty.

    That seems kind of rude... I don't want to stop players from mixing and matching mods if that's what they want to do.

    Well, nah. Just, for me, I don't really want to do that. /shrug

    Don't misunderstand. Those other mods are great, I'm sure. I just feel like your mod gave me the gamechanger I wanted (and didn't have time to code myself, to be blunt). :)

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,588
    hehe guess I saw the "Maybe tonight" post a little late.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    ThacoBell said:

    "Not installed due to errors 3e-inspired bard overhaul and multiclass bards" "Error: Failure cannot resolve label"

    WeiDU log attached.

    Try v3.8.2.

    Also, I'm pretty sure FnP should be installed after TnB...

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,588

    ThacoBell said:

    "Not installed due to errors 3e-inspired bard overhaul and multiclass bards" "Error: Failure cannot resolve label"

    WeiDU log attached.

    Try v3.8.2.

    Also, I'm pretty sure FnP should be installed after TnB...
    Really? I feel like we've had this conversation before, but reversed, as I did use to install TnB first...

    Thanks for the update! I'll get to testing the new bards asap.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    edited October 2018
    Hmm, looks like this doesn't play with with multiclass sorcerers at the moment (the "spell select dialogue" component of Tome & Blood).

    Use one or the other for now, I'll figure it out.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,588
    edited October 2018
    OOhhh. So if I remove the "spell select dislogue" component, it should work?

    *edit*

    I had already started installing before reading your last comment @subtledoctor so I didn't have a chance to remove the spellcasting dialogue from my install, but it says that the new bards installed successfully. Should go ahead and remove the TnB component to be safe?

    Nope, just tested, doesn't work.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,588
    edited October 2018
    @subtledoctor Okay, different problem. I can create the new Bard kits, and I can select the spell knowledge ability from the innate abilities tab, but no menu comes up to select spells. I re-did my entire mod install, and left out "Spell selection dialogue" from TnB. I used the console to grant myself enough experience to hit level cap to test, and I cannot select spells. Something is summoned when I select spell knowledge, but no dialogue happens.

    *edit*

    Olkay, I checked an unkitted bard and it worked fine. It looks like the problem lies with the Meistersinger kit. Which is, of course, the one I want to play. It also looks like the Loresinger is not working properly. I can select it at chargen, but it seems to function just like a cleric/thief. Select deity doesn't show loresinger as available either. In fact, it looks like ONLY the trueclass bard is getting spells.

    Post edited by ThacoBell on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    edited October 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    I checked an unkitted bard and it worked fine. It looks like the problem lies with the Meistersinger kit. Which is, of course, the one I want to play.

    Should be fixed in v3.8.3.

    I still need to figure out which wires are getting crossed with the TnB multi sorcerers. And be aware the Gallant may not be getting the spell knowledge ability (maybe Loresinger too? ... if not you can add it via the console " AddSpecialAbility("d5mbard") " or something like that. (I'm not great with console commands.)

    I'll get on these things later tonight.

    EDIT - if you play a Meistersinger you'll be best off installing Spell Revisions - the Meister gets the low-level SR Animal Summoning spells which could be very useful in BG1 levels.

    EDIT 2 - be aware the bard song item ability might not work the very first time you use it. Just try again, it's a weird one-time issue.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,588
    Thanks for the quick triage today. I'll update as I notice things. I've enver tried spellr evisions before, roughly where in the install would that go? alongside new items and spell mods, or alongside the likes of tweaks anthology?

    I did notice the bard song thing, was odd.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,588
    Meistersinger has spell dialogue! Gonna finish my mod install and hopefully I'll be able to play tonight.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    ThacoBell said:

    Thanks for the quick triage today. I'll update as I notice things. I've enver tried spellr evisions before, roughly where in the install would that go? alongside new items and spell mods, or alongside the likes of tweaks anthology?

    Relatively early. Before IWDification.
    Another great thing SR gives bards: Deafness at 2nd level be ones Sound Burst, which does AoE damage in addition to possibly disabling casting. AoE damage is a rare thing for bards with this spell list.

    Also Knock becomes Battering Ram which gives them another rare source of direct damage.
    ThacoBell said:

    I did notice the bard song thing, was odd.

    It might be something to with the 2.5 patch... "knowing" a bard somg just means you need it in your wizard spellbook. I added a simple "GA_D5BD01" to the clab table which works in every other instance I've ever seen... but it seems that for some reason, in the new patch, at 1st level in a new game, the engine is stripping out your wizard spellbook after my mod adds the spell. So it has to be manually added again by the bard song item.

    ThacoBell
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 9,588
    Okay, its way too late in my install to backtrack and put that in, but I'll keep it in mind when I reach BG2.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    edited October 2018
    Okay, I think I've got that all sorted out: the new 3E-style bards should be compatible with TnB multiclass sorcerers as of v3.8.4. :smiley:

    Also the new Gallant should get its bard song now. Yay for Garrick!

    EDIT - oh, I forgot to mention, as of v3.8 the psionics component is deprecated, and no longer part of the mod. Instead look for a much-expanded version soon in Will to Power.

    ThacoBell
  • UOLegacyUOLegacy Member Posts: 134
    edited October 2018
    No. Alas, I'm still getting install errors with the 3E-style bards. You can still use this without that component, correct?

    [EDIT] It was the very first mod installed (from a clean installation) to make sure nothing else interfered. How would like me to send you the .log file?

  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 501
    How many weapon proficiency points can each Bard kit assign, if using SoB?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    edited October 2018
    UOLegacy said:

    No. Alas, I'm still getting install errors with the 3E-style bards. You can still use this without that component, correct?

    [EDIT] It was the very first mod installed (from a clean installation) to make sure nothing else interfered. How would like me to send you the .log file?

    Most helpful thing would be opening the "Might_and_Guile.DEBUG" file in a text editor, finding where the error occurred (generally about 9/10ths down the document) and copying/pasting the 5-10 lines before and after the error.

    Also which game are you installing it on?

    EDIT - regardless which game, I just installed 3.8.4 onto BGEE, SoD, BG2EE, and IWDEE (all of them v2.5). So if you're getting an install failure with no other mods then I think it must be something to do with your setup.

    Post edited by subtledoctor on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    GawainBS said:

    How many weapon proficiency points can each Bard kit assign, if using SoB?

    Exactly as per thieves - so 1 point with the vanilla proficiency system, or 2 points with the SoB proficiency overhaul. (Blades can get 2 points with longsword/shortsword/dagger/dart in vanilla, and 3 points with the SoB overhaul.)

  • GawainBSGawainBS Member Posts: 501

    GawainBS said:

    How many weapon proficiency points can each Bard kit assign, if using SoB?

    Exactly as per thieves - so 1 point with the vanilla proficiency system, or 2 points with the SoB proficiency overhaul. (Blades can get 2 points with longsword/shortsword/dagger/dart in vanilla, and 3 points with the SoB overhaul.)
    Thanks. Are the Skald and Gallant subject to this too? I gathered that they were more Fighter?

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,238
    GawainBS said:

    GawainBS said:

    How many weapon proficiency points can each Bard kit assign, if using SoB?

    Exactly as per thieves - so 1 point with the vanilla proficiency system, or 2 points with the SoB proficiency overhaul. (Blades can get 2 points with longsword/shortsword/dagger/dart in vanilla, and 3 points with the SoB overhaul.)
    Thanks. Are the Skald and Gallant subject to this too? I gathered that they were more Fighter?
    Skalds and Gallants (and Heralds) are multiclass fighter/bards... er, fighter/thieves... er, fighter/rogues. So they get the typical fighter multiclass rules: up to specialization in vanilla, up to mastery with the SoB overhaul.

    rapsam2003
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