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(Non top tier) favorite weapons

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Comments

  • ArviaArvia Member Posts: 338
    edited April 11
    JGP wrote: »
    Well, you know a non-top tier weapon thread is somewhat derailed when it mentions Celestial Fury, so I'll attempt to get it back on track

    @JGP sorry, I guess I didn't really understand what was meant by non-top tier weapons.

    Mental note to myself: Don't butt into conversations until you're 100% sure what was meant.

  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 644
    ArchGhost wrote: »
    Crimson Dart +3: It's freely obtained in WK level 1, sets any character's APR to 3 and does 4-6 damage per hit no matter what proficiencies they have, for an average expected damage per round of 15 damage, or more than twice what you'd expect out of a non fighter... It's usable by everybody except clerics (yay for good Druid weapons!) It hits Iron Golems from a safe distance when they are stuck behind doors. The Crimson Dart is awesome. It made me re-examine darts when I started a solo Sorc in BG1 tutu, where Blind + spamming darts with 3 APR is way better than slings and you don't need good STR like with a Quarterstaff

    Azuredge: we all know it makes undead go boom, sure, and it's really good at it (one of the best ways to deal with Devil Shades in WK, you don't have to risk melee with IMoD). It's also a +3 enchanted weapon, meaning it is a good ranged option (and higher damage than most to boot) on things like Iron/Adamantite golems, demons, or just spellcasters... you can GM + I. haste for a lot of attacks to punch through stoneskins quickly and ignore Fireshields/let your summons take the heat while you do the damage from safety. A great paladin or Wizard Slayer weapon, or any UAI character.

    Tansheron's Bow: A +3 infinite ammo short bow buyable in Trademeet after saving the town from the Shadow Druids. At least 2 APR, +3 thaco no matter who wields it (nice for Fighter/Thieves or Mage/Thieves) and it can still fire any arrow you want. It kills Golems from safety. There might be a theme here :s

    Namarra+2 and Illbratha + 1: these swords are easily obtainable (go into a room and kill a dude) and grant usage of a party friendly Silence 15' radius/Mirror Image respectively. They make excellent weapons to keep in quickslots just to have the abilities available. Namarra also is a decent main weapon as it hits as hard as a longsword +4.

    Equalizer +3: Wielded in the off-hand, its alignment based-boni apply to the mainhand, and the immunities are nice. Toss it on any character no matter if they have proficiency or not, it can only ever attack once anyway in the offhand.

    Staff of Rynn +4/Staff mace +2: sold at the adventurer's mart immediately, a +4 quarter staff/+2 club that uses quarterstaff proficiency. They give a nice boost to high STR mages (such as solo characters) or Cleric/Thieves early on that need to actually hit something. A Kensai is crazy with the staff too, can carry him all the way to Staff of the Ram.

    Staff of <air,fire,earth> control: summons elementals. Summons that come from item abilities tend to cast very quickly and are invaluable as fodder, especially in WK anti-magic zones or boss fights.

    All the named slings: nice weapons, but especially the +5 infinite bullet one, the one that makes +4 bullets, and the Sling of Seeking. Sometimes you can't let your squishy guys get close but they can still add some damage this way as they are pretty good at hitting with all the stacked Thaco boni (weapon, ammo, dex bonus, any proficiency, etc).

    Kundane +2: it behaves exactly as Belm, but I think it gets overlooked a lot more as its a Short Sword, and it's in a more difficult area (Planar Prison)

    Ring of Energy: fires a 2D6 Aganazzer's Scorcher-like flame, usable by anybody, easily recharged by selling it then buying/stealing it back

    Blade of Roses +3/Stonefire +3/ Frostreaver +3: all early and easily obtained +3 weapons that are nonetheless really good for nearly all of SoA. The first 2 are bought at Bernard in the Copper Coronet, you get Frostreaver for free at De'Arnise Keep in the chapel (golem room). The axes add extra elemental damage that kills trolls and disrupts casters even through Stoneskins, while the sword add +2 CHA for shopping (Ring of Human Influence + this sword and 20 Rep = the price cap) and before it was fixed, hit as a Bastard Sword for damage (2d4+3) with longsword proficiency

    Arbane +2: Likely known already in passing as you get it for free when attacked by Suna Seni's party in area transitions and it's nice sale price. It also allows for Free Action on command which is nice for Fighter/Mages or Mage/Thieves wanting to use Web in close combat.

    Flame Tongue: Longsword that hits as a +4, get it as early in the Druid grove.

    Boomerang Dagger +2: Not sure how many actually even know about it; I didn't for years until I finally did the Gong quest for shits and giggles. It's an infinite throwing dagger carried by Captain Dennis at the inn in the Bridge District. 2 attacks, 2d4+2 damage on any character, perfect for mages or mage/thieves like Jan or Imoen.

    Mauler's Arm: not so great as a weapon, but it the 18 STR enchanment is very handy for low STR clerics like Aerie and Viconia or you own custom characters, when you want them to put on some plate or use a large shield, and lets them carry more than a few stack of bullets in their packs! It also acts as the starting point for spells that boost abilities like DUHM, so it's sorta like a mini-Crom Faeyr.

    Blackblood +3: the best club in the game until CLub of Detonation, but you can get it super early in Trademeet after the druid grove. Not many things resist Acid damage either. It's way better than the Gnasher (the splinter effect of the Gnasher does NOT ignore Stoneskins, though it does "hit" them and depletes them faster).

    Ras, the dancing Blade +2: simple longsword +2 that gives you access to a Mordenkainen's sword summon for a short time -- the thing is nearly unkillable (only Death effects and arcane damage can do anything to it) making it an excellent boss tank for a short time.

    Great post and item list @ArchGhost . I agree with most of this. I do think darts are better for low-strength mages, mage/thieves, and possibly assassins if you are ok with the closer melee presence. I prefer boomerang/firetooth/poisoned daggers over slings usually for the non-fighters that can use them. I just can't suffer the sling's ROF, even though I do get @gorgonzola 's higher THACO rationale.

    ZaghoulStummvonBordwehrgorgonzola
  • Grond0Grond0 Member, Moderator Posts: 4,871
    Aerakar wrote: »
    ArchGhost wrote: »
    Crimson Dart +3: It's freely obtained in WK level 1, sets any character's APR to 3 and does 4-6 damage per hit no matter what proficiencies they have, for an average expected damage per round of 15 damage, or more than twice what you'd expect out of a non fighter... It's usable by everybody except clerics (yay for good Druid weapons!) It hits Iron Golems from a safe distance when they are stuck behind doors. The Crimson Dart is awesome. It made me re-examine darts when I started a solo Sorc in BG1 tutu, where Blind + spamming darts with 3 APR is way better than slings and you don't need good STR like with a Quarterstaff

    Azuredge: we all know it makes undead go boom, sure, and it's really good at it (one of the best ways to deal with Devil Shades in WK, you don't have to risk melee with IMoD). It's also a +3 enchanted weapon, meaning it is a good ranged option (and higher damage than most to boot) on things like Iron/Adamantite golems, demons, or just spellcasters... you can GM + I. haste for a lot of attacks to punch through stoneskins quickly and ignore Fireshields/let your summons take the heat while you do the damage from safety. A great paladin or Wizard Slayer weapon, or any UAI character.

    Tansheron's Bow: A +3 infinite ammo short bow buyable in Trademeet after saving the town from the Shadow Druids. At least 2 APR, +3 thaco no matter who wields it (nice for Fighter/Thieves or Mage/Thieves) and it can still fire any arrow you want. It kills Golems from safety. There might be a theme here :s

    Namarra+2 and Illbratha + 1: these swords are easily obtainable (go into a room and kill a dude) and grant usage of a party friendly Silence 15' radius/Mirror Image respectively. They make excellent weapons to keep in quickslots just to have the abilities available. Namarra also is a decent main weapon as it hits as hard as a longsword +4.

    Equalizer +3: Wielded in the off-hand, its alignment based-boni apply to the mainhand, and the immunities are nice. Toss it on any character no matter if they have proficiency or not, it can only ever attack once anyway in the offhand.

    Staff of Rynn +4/Staff mace +2: sold at the adventurer's mart immediately, a +4 quarter staff/+2 club that uses quarterstaff proficiency. They give a nice boost to high STR mages (such as solo characters) or Cleric/Thieves early on that need to actually hit something. A Kensai is crazy with the staff too, can carry him all the way to Staff of the Ram.

    Staff of <air,fire,earth> control: summons elementals. Summons that come from item abilities tend to cast very quickly and are invaluable as fodder, especially in WK anti-magic zones or boss fights.

    All the named slings: nice weapons, but especially the +5 infinite bullet one, the one that makes +4 bullets, and the Sling of Seeking. Sometimes you can't let your squishy guys get close but they can still add some damage this way as they are pretty good at hitting with all the stacked Thaco boni (weapon, ammo, dex bonus, any proficiency, etc).

    Kundane +2: it behaves exactly as Belm, but I think it gets overlooked a lot more as its a Short Sword, and it's in a more difficult area (Planar Prison)

    Ring of Energy: fires a 2D6 Aganazzer's Scorcher-like flame, usable by anybody, easily recharged by selling it then buying/stealing it back

    Blade of Roses +3/Stonefire +3/ Frostreaver +3: all early and easily obtained +3 weapons that are nonetheless really good for nearly all of SoA. The first 2 are bought at Bernard in the Copper Coronet, you get Frostreaver for free at De'Arnise Keep in the chapel (golem room). The axes add extra elemental damage that kills trolls and disrupts casters even through Stoneskins, while the sword add +2 CHA for shopping (Ring of Human Influence + this sword and 20 Rep = the price cap) and before it was fixed, hit as a Bastard Sword for damage (2d4+3) with longsword proficiency

    Arbane +2: Likely known already in passing as you get it for free when attacked by Suna Seni's party in area transitions and it's nice sale price. It also allows for Free Action on command which is nice for Fighter/Mages or Mage/Thieves wanting to use Web in close combat.

    Flame Tongue: Longsword that hits as a +4, get it as early in the Druid grove.

    Boomerang Dagger +2: Not sure how many actually even know about it; I didn't for years until I finally did the Gong quest for shits and giggles. It's an infinite throwing dagger carried by Captain Dennis at the inn in the Bridge District. 2 attacks, 2d4+2 damage on any character, perfect for mages or mage/thieves like Jan or Imoen.

    Mauler's Arm: not so great as a weapon, but it the 18 STR enchanment is very handy for low STR clerics like Aerie and Viconia or you own custom characters, when you want them to put on some plate or use a large shield, and lets them carry more than a few stack of bullets in their packs! It also acts as the starting point for spells that boost abilities like DUHM, so it's sorta like a mini-Crom Faeyr.

    Blackblood +3: the best club in the game until CLub of Detonation, but you can get it super early in Trademeet after the druid grove. Not many things resist Acid damage either. It's way better than the Gnasher (the splinter effect of the Gnasher does NOT ignore Stoneskins, though it does "hit" them and depletes them faster).

    Ras, the dancing Blade +2: simple longsword +2 that gives you access to a Mordenkainen's sword summon for a short time -- the thing is nearly unkillable (only Death effects and arcane damage can do anything to it) making it an excellent boss tank for a short time.

    Great post and item list @ArchGhost . I agree with most of this. I do think darts are better for low-strength mages, mage/thieves, and possibly assassins if you are ok with the closer melee presence. I prefer boomerang/firetooth/poisoned daggers over slings usually for the non-fighters that can use them. I just can't suffer the sling's ROF, even though I do get @gorgonzola 's higher THACO rationale.

    Which game you're playing also makes a big difference. The list was written from the perspective of BGT or Tutu; if you're playing the EE then slings are comparatively better (as they do strength damage), while the Sling of Seeking is barely worth using (rather than one of the best weapons in the game).

    Note also that Arbane having free action must be the result of another mod. Otherwise (in both BGT and BG2EE) it will protect against hold person, but not give free action (so won't protect against web).

    SkatangorgonzolaAerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,427
    edited April 12
    @Aerakar @Grond0
    i give for granted that a sling is used with enchanted bullets, as even if my toons use intensively the slings i find that there are in the game more of them then how i can use, so even in not ee the str bonus is applied.
    and i also give for granted that with a lev 2 spell that grant 18.50 str for many turns the ranged attacker actually get that bonus. as the str bonus is added also in the not ee as long as an enchanted bullet is used my reasoning is true for both of the versions. using a sling without enchanted bullets and str bonus is surely inferior to use the dart. even the everard one, that is really useful to hit enemies that are immune at your better bullets, without the boost of str, enchanted bullet and haste, deal only a not noticeable damage.
    the sling is strong cause both the thac0 and the damage benefit of both the launcher and bullet levels of enchantment (everard and +2 bullet give +7 damage), get a str bonus that the dart does not get (afaik) and the damage is doubled by the haste, assuming a base 1 apr, so a mage/rogue/divine caster.

    about using the str spell instead of an other lev 2 offensive spell let's take a lev 10 mage, he give 18.50 str to a toon for 100 rounds, so potentially add up to 600 dmg to the ranged output, with a lev 20 mage it becomes 1200 dmg, assuming that the ranged attacker always attack and always hit and also is always hasted, thing that obviously is impossible...
    even if only 1/10 or 1/20 of the maximum theoretical added damage is obtained, but avoiding to waste the time the toons are buffed for looting i usually get more, it is a really good use for a lev 2 spell, compare the dmg obtained with the one of a melf magic arrow... (that is fantastic to disrupt, has its place in the memorized spells, but not for its damage).

    every time i try to use that apparently fantastic dart i end to revert back to sling as my mainly caster but also ranged attacker toon with the dart don't get a dmg output that can make a real difference.
    with viconia and aerie, that can not use the returning daggers that are even better then the slings, but can boost the str to high levels, the sling shines even more.


    Aerakar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member, Moderator Posts: 4,871
    @gorgonzola in the original Baldur's Gate games only the Sling of Seeking provided a strength bonus to sling attacks - whether or not magical ammunition was used (though you may of course have changed that using a mod).

    For most characters I prefer a sling to darts, but that's not just a straight reflection of their damage potential. I tend to play solo, where there's normally a lot of movement during combat - so the APR advantage of darts is far less than it would appear to be. In addition darts have a much shorter range, which can make using them without retaliation more difficult or dangerous.

    gorgonzolaStummvonBordwehrAerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,427
    is possible that the enchanted bullet giving str bonus in my original game is caused by a mod.
    what you tell about your solo toons and the apr advantage being less then what is apparent is also true for me, even if i rarely play solo. in my usual small parties i also move around a lot the toons during the battle and i use autopause on round end to have a toon attack and cast in the same round. a sling with good speed factor leave almost the full round to cast after attacking, and the spell is cast faster (from the beginning of the round) so its effective earlier in the battle, whether is cast to help one of your toons, call a summon or damage the enemy. this is also an advantage in 6 people parties even if there to loose a ranged attack to have a spell effective a little earlier or to relocate a toon is less important. is playing 1-3 toons that make so important that they are used in the most effective way.

    Grond0Aerakar
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,108
    In a larger team with more NPCs I tend to prefer slings on any magic user since it's easy to stack up close to infinite ammo on them to avoid having them go Leeroy Jenkins and rush into melee with their fists when they run out of darts. In smaller teams, I prefer darts since it's not about damage, it's about interruption and darts have ie stunning or just regular spell interruption from damage.

    gorgonzolaAerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 2,427
    Skatan wrote: »
    it's easy to stack up close to infinite ammo on them to avoid having them go Leeroy Jenkins and rush into melee with their fists when they run out of darts.
    there is an autopause that works wonderfully for this, and also to let you know if the mmm, energy blades and all the magically generated weapons are all used or expired. it is useful also with every ranged weapon to know when a type of ammo is expired, let's say that you are equipping on a toon a bow and mundane ammo, to hit against pfmw, enchanted arrows, to hit with better thac0 in the other situations, and arrows with elemental damage to disrupt trough a stoneskin, with the autopause on when the character consume all the ammo type you are using for a purpose you don't have the risk that he switches to an other ammo without you noticing it.
    it is a not intrusive type of autopause, while other ones like on end of round or spell cast are intrusive, even if can be really useful, imho every player should have it set on by default.

    SkatanAerakar
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 4,108
    edited April 15
    ^- Thanks @gorgonzola, but I only use two auto-pauses and nothing else; pause on enemy sighted and traps, and often I switch of the former as well.

    gorgonzolaAerakar
  • ArchGhostArchGhost Member Posts: 28
    Grond0 wrote: »

    Which game you're playing also makes a big difference. The list was written from the perspective of BGT or Tutu; if you're playing the EE then slings are comparatively better (as they do strength damage), while the Sling of Seeking is barely worth using (rather than one of the best weapons in the game).

    Note also that Arbane having free action must be the result of another mod. Otherwise (in both BGT and BG2EE) it will protect against hold person, but not give free action (so won't protect against web).

    Yeah I'm not familiar at all with EE, I pulled this all out of nerd memory. Other than one of the early EE patches preserved the infinite launcher + ammunition damage/effects stacking, which is a bug that only persisted in an unfixed game before and may have been fixed already.

    You're right, Arbane should only grant immunity to hold, it's probably one of the various (badly needed) fixpacks that changed it over the years like Ease of Use, Baldurdash, or G3. G3 does a lot of sneaky stuff without saying, like fixing the door back into the vault level of Watcher's Keep.

    gorgonzola
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