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(Non top tier) favorite weapons

13

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  • ArviaArvia Member, Moderator Posts: 1,332
    edited April 2019
    JGP wrote: »
    Well, you know a non-top tier weapon thread is somewhat derailed when it mentions Celestial Fury, so I'll attempt to get it back on track

    @JGP sorry, I guess I didn't really understand what was meant by non-top tier weapons.

    Mental note to myself: Don't butt into conversations until you're 100% sure what was meant.

  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 707
    ArchGhost wrote: »
    Crimson Dart +3: It's freely obtained in WK level 1, sets any character's APR to 3 and does 4-6 damage per hit no matter what proficiencies they have, for an average expected damage per round of 15 damage, or more than twice what you'd expect out of a non fighter... It's usable by everybody except clerics (yay for good Druid weapons!) It hits Iron Golems from a safe distance when they are stuck behind doors. The Crimson Dart is awesome. It made me re-examine darts when I started a solo Sorc in BG1 tutu, where Blind + spamming darts with 3 APR is way better than slings and you don't need good STR like with a Quarterstaff

    Azuredge: we all know it makes undead go boom, sure, and it's really good at it (one of the best ways to deal with Devil Shades in WK, you don't have to risk melee with IMoD). It's also a +3 enchanted weapon, meaning it is a good ranged option (and higher damage than most to boot) on things like Iron/Adamantite golems, demons, or just spellcasters... you can GM + I. haste for a lot of attacks to punch through stoneskins quickly and ignore Fireshields/let your summons take the heat while you do the damage from safety. A great paladin or Wizard Slayer weapon, or any UAI character.

    Tansheron's Bow: A +3 infinite ammo short bow buyable in Trademeet after saving the town from the Shadow Druids. At least 2 APR, +3 thaco no matter who wields it (nice for Fighter/Thieves or Mage/Thieves) and it can still fire any arrow you want. It kills Golems from safety. There might be a theme here :s

    Namarra+2 and Illbratha + 1: these swords are easily obtainable (go into a room and kill a dude) and grant usage of a party friendly Silence 15' radius/Mirror Image respectively. They make excellent weapons to keep in quickslots just to have the abilities available. Namarra also is a decent main weapon as it hits as hard as a longsword +4.

    Equalizer +3: Wielded in the off-hand, its alignment based-boni apply to the mainhand, and the immunities are nice. Toss it on any character no matter if they have proficiency or not, it can only ever attack once anyway in the offhand.

    Staff of Rynn +4/Staff mace +2: sold at the adventurer's mart immediately, a +4 quarter staff/+2 club that uses quarterstaff proficiency. They give a nice boost to high STR mages (such as solo characters) or Cleric/Thieves early on that need to actually hit something. A Kensai is crazy with the staff too, can carry him all the way to Staff of the Ram.

    Staff of <air,fire,earth> control: summons elementals. Summons that come from item abilities tend to cast very quickly and are invaluable as fodder, especially in WK anti-magic zones or boss fights.

    All the named slings: nice weapons, but especially the +5 infinite bullet one, the one that makes +4 bullets, and the Sling of Seeking. Sometimes you can't let your squishy guys get close but they can still add some damage this way as they are pretty good at hitting with all the stacked Thaco boni (weapon, ammo, dex bonus, any proficiency, etc).

    Kundane +2: it behaves exactly as Belm, but I think it gets overlooked a lot more as its a Short Sword, and it's in a more difficult area (Planar Prison)

    Ring of Energy: fires a 2D6 Aganazzer's Scorcher-like flame, usable by anybody, easily recharged by selling it then buying/stealing it back

    Blade of Roses +3/Stonefire +3/ Frostreaver +3: all early and easily obtained +3 weapons that are nonetheless really good for nearly all of SoA. The first 2 are bought at Bernard in the Copper Coronet, you get Frostreaver for free at De'Arnise Keep in the chapel (golem room). The axes add extra elemental damage that kills trolls and disrupts casters even through Stoneskins, while the sword add +2 CHA for shopping (Ring of Human Influence + this sword and 20 Rep = the price cap) and before it was fixed, hit as a Bastard Sword for damage (2d4+3) with longsword proficiency

    Arbane +2: Likely known already in passing as you get it for free when attacked by Suna Seni's party in area transitions and it's nice sale price. It also allows for Free Action on command which is nice for Fighter/Mages or Mage/Thieves wanting to use Web in close combat.

    Flame Tongue: Longsword that hits as a +4, get it as early in the Druid grove.

    Boomerang Dagger +2: Not sure how many actually even know about it; I didn't for years until I finally did the Gong quest for shits and giggles. It's an infinite throwing dagger carried by Captain Dennis at the inn in the Bridge District. 2 attacks, 2d4+2 damage on any character, perfect for mages or mage/thieves like Jan or Imoen.

    Mauler's Arm: not so great as a weapon, but it the 18 STR enchanment is very handy for low STR clerics like Aerie and Viconia or you own custom characters, when you want them to put on some plate or use a large shield, and lets them carry more than a few stack of bullets in their packs! It also acts as the starting point for spells that boost abilities like DUHM, so it's sorta like a mini-Crom Faeyr.

    Blackblood +3: the best club in the game until CLub of Detonation, but you can get it super early in Trademeet after the druid grove. Not many things resist Acid damage either. It's way better than the Gnasher (the splinter effect of the Gnasher does NOT ignore Stoneskins, though it does "hit" them and depletes them faster).

    Ras, the dancing Blade +2: simple longsword +2 that gives you access to a Mordenkainen's sword summon for a short time -- the thing is nearly unkillable (only Death effects and arcane damage can do anything to it) making it an excellent boss tank for a short time.

    Great post and item list @ArchGhost . I agree with most of this. I do think darts are better for low-strength mages, mage/thieves, and possibly assassins if you are ok with the closer melee presence. I prefer boomerang/firetooth/poisoned daggers over slings usually for the non-fighters that can use them. I just can't suffer the sling's ROF, even though I do get @gorgonzola 's higher THACO rationale.

    ZaghoulStummvonBordwehrgorgonzolalolien
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,636
    Aerakar wrote: »
    ArchGhost wrote: »
    Crimson Dart +3: It's freely obtained in WK level 1, sets any character's APR to 3 and does 4-6 damage per hit no matter what proficiencies they have, for an average expected damage per round of 15 damage, or more than twice what you'd expect out of a non fighter... It's usable by everybody except clerics (yay for good Druid weapons!) It hits Iron Golems from a safe distance when they are stuck behind doors. The Crimson Dart is awesome. It made me re-examine darts when I started a solo Sorc in BG1 tutu, where Blind + spamming darts with 3 APR is way better than slings and you don't need good STR like with a Quarterstaff

    Azuredge: we all know it makes undead go boom, sure, and it's really good at it (one of the best ways to deal with Devil Shades in WK, you don't have to risk melee with IMoD). It's also a +3 enchanted weapon, meaning it is a good ranged option (and higher damage than most to boot) on things like Iron/Adamantite golems, demons, or just spellcasters... you can GM + I. haste for a lot of attacks to punch through stoneskins quickly and ignore Fireshields/let your summons take the heat while you do the damage from safety. A great paladin or Wizard Slayer weapon, or any UAI character.

    Tansheron's Bow: A +3 infinite ammo short bow buyable in Trademeet after saving the town from the Shadow Druids. At least 2 APR, +3 thaco no matter who wields it (nice for Fighter/Thieves or Mage/Thieves) and it can still fire any arrow you want. It kills Golems from safety. There might be a theme here :s

    Namarra+2 and Illbratha + 1: these swords are easily obtainable (go into a room and kill a dude) and grant usage of a party friendly Silence 15' radius/Mirror Image respectively. They make excellent weapons to keep in quickslots just to have the abilities available. Namarra also is a decent main weapon as it hits as hard as a longsword +4.

    Equalizer +3: Wielded in the off-hand, its alignment based-boni apply to the mainhand, and the immunities are nice. Toss it on any character no matter if they have proficiency or not, it can only ever attack once anyway in the offhand.

    Staff of Rynn +4/Staff mace +2: sold at the adventurer's mart immediately, a +4 quarter staff/+2 club that uses quarterstaff proficiency. They give a nice boost to high STR mages (such as solo characters) or Cleric/Thieves early on that need to actually hit something. A Kensai is crazy with the staff too, can carry him all the way to Staff of the Ram.

    Staff of <air,fire,earth> control: summons elementals. Summons that come from item abilities tend to cast very quickly and are invaluable as fodder, especially in WK anti-magic zones or boss fights.

    All the named slings: nice weapons, but especially the +5 infinite bullet one, the one that makes +4 bullets, and the Sling of Seeking. Sometimes you can't let your squishy guys get close but they can still add some damage this way as they are pretty good at hitting with all the stacked Thaco boni (weapon, ammo, dex bonus, any proficiency, etc).

    Kundane +2: it behaves exactly as Belm, but I think it gets overlooked a lot more as its a Short Sword, and it's in a more difficult area (Planar Prison)

    Ring of Energy: fires a 2D6 Aganazzer's Scorcher-like flame, usable by anybody, easily recharged by selling it then buying/stealing it back

    Blade of Roses +3/Stonefire +3/ Frostreaver +3: all early and easily obtained +3 weapons that are nonetheless really good for nearly all of SoA. The first 2 are bought at Bernard in the Copper Coronet, you get Frostreaver for free at De'Arnise Keep in the chapel (golem room). The axes add extra elemental damage that kills trolls and disrupts casters even through Stoneskins, while the sword add +2 CHA for shopping (Ring of Human Influence + this sword and 20 Rep = the price cap) and before it was fixed, hit as a Bastard Sword for damage (2d4+3) with longsword proficiency

    Arbane +2: Likely known already in passing as you get it for free when attacked by Suna Seni's party in area transitions and it's nice sale price. It also allows for Free Action on command which is nice for Fighter/Mages or Mage/Thieves wanting to use Web in close combat.

    Flame Tongue: Longsword that hits as a +4, get it as early in the Druid grove.

    Boomerang Dagger +2: Not sure how many actually even know about it; I didn't for years until I finally did the Gong quest for shits and giggles. It's an infinite throwing dagger carried by Captain Dennis at the inn in the Bridge District. 2 attacks, 2d4+2 damage on any character, perfect for mages or mage/thieves like Jan or Imoen.

    Mauler's Arm: not so great as a weapon, but it the 18 STR enchanment is very handy for low STR clerics like Aerie and Viconia or you own custom characters, when you want them to put on some plate or use a large shield, and lets them carry more than a few stack of bullets in their packs! It also acts as the starting point for spells that boost abilities like DUHM, so it's sorta like a mini-Crom Faeyr.

    Blackblood +3: the best club in the game until CLub of Detonation, but you can get it super early in Trademeet after the druid grove. Not many things resist Acid damage either. It's way better than the Gnasher (the splinter effect of the Gnasher does NOT ignore Stoneskins, though it does "hit" them and depletes them faster).

    Ras, the dancing Blade +2: simple longsword +2 that gives you access to a Mordenkainen's sword summon for a short time -- the thing is nearly unkillable (only Death effects and arcane damage can do anything to it) making it an excellent boss tank for a short time.

    Great post and item list @ArchGhost . I agree with most of this. I do think darts are better for low-strength mages, mage/thieves, and possibly assassins if you are ok with the closer melee presence. I prefer boomerang/firetooth/poisoned daggers over slings usually for the non-fighters that can use them. I just can't suffer the sling's ROF, even though I do get @gorgonzola 's higher THACO rationale.

    Which game you're playing also makes a big difference. The list was written from the perspective of BGT or Tutu; if you're playing the EE then slings are comparatively better (as they do strength damage), while the Sling of Seeking is barely worth using (rather than one of the best weapons in the game).

    Note also that Arbane having free action must be the result of another mod. Otherwise (in both BGT and BG2EE) it will protect against hold person, but not give free action (so won't protect against web).

    SkatangorgonzolaAerakarlolien
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited April 2019
    @Aerakar @Grond0
    i give for granted that a sling is used with enchanted bullets, as even if my toons use intensively the slings i find that there are in the game more of them then how i can use, so even in not ee the str bonus is applied.
    and i also give for granted that with a lev 2 spell that grant 18.50 str for many turns the ranged attacker actually get that bonus. as the str bonus is added also in the not ee as long as an enchanted bullet is used my reasoning is true for both of the versions. using a sling without enchanted bullets and str bonus is surely inferior to use the dart. even the everard one, that is really useful to hit enemies that are immune at your better bullets, without the boost of str, enchanted bullet and haste, deal only a not noticeable damage.
    the sling is strong cause both the thac0 and the damage benefit of both the launcher and bullet levels of enchantment (everard and +2 bullet give +7 damage), get a str bonus that the dart does not get (afaik) and the damage is doubled by the haste, assuming a base 1 apr, so a mage/rogue/divine caster.

    about using the str spell instead of an other lev 2 offensive spell let's take a lev 10 mage, he give 18.50 str to a toon for 100 rounds, so potentially add up to 600 dmg to the ranged output, with a lev 20 mage it becomes 1200 dmg, assuming that the ranged attacker always attack and always hit and also is always hasted, thing that obviously is impossible...
    even if only 1/10 or 1/20 of the maximum theoretical added damage is obtained, but avoiding to waste the time the toons are buffed for looting i usually get more, it is a really good use for a lev 2 spell, compare the dmg obtained with the one of a melf magic arrow... (that is fantastic to disrupt, has its place in the memorized spells, but not for its damage).

    every time i try to use that apparently fantastic dart i end to revert back to sling as my mainly caster but also ranged attacker toon with the dart don't get a dmg output that can make a real difference.
    with viconia and aerie, that can not use the returning daggers that are even better then the slings, but can boost the str to high levels, the sling shines even more.


    Aerakar
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,636
    @gorgonzola in the original Baldur's Gate games only the Sling of Seeking provided a strength bonus to sling attacks - whether or not magical ammunition was used (though you may of course have changed that using a mod).

    For most characters I prefer a sling to darts, but that's not just a straight reflection of their damage potential. I tend to play solo, where there's normally a lot of movement during combat - so the APR advantage of darts is far less than it would appear to be. In addition darts have a much shorter range, which can make using them without retaliation more difficult or dangerous.

    gorgonzolaStummvonBordwehrAerakarsemiticgod
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    is possible that the enchanted bullet giving str bonus in my original game is caused by a mod.
    what you tell about your solo toons and the apr advantage being less then what is apparent is also true for me, even if i rarely play solo. in my usual small parties i also move around a lot the toons during the battle and i use autopause on round end to have a toon attack and cast in the same round. a sling with good speed factor leave almost the full round to cast after attacking, and the spell is cast faster (from the beginning of the round) so its effective earlier in the battle, whether is cast to help one of your toons, call a summon or damage the enemy. this is also an advantage in 6 people parties even if there to loose a ranged attack to have a spell effective a little earlier or to relocate a toon is less important. is playing 1-3 toons that make so important that they are used in the most effective way.

    Grond0Aerakar
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,209
    In a larger team with more NPCs I tend to prefer slings on any magic user since it's easy to stack up close to infinite ammo on them to avoid having them go Leeroy Jenkins and rush into melee with their fists when they run out of darts. In smaller teams, I prefer darts since it's not about damage, it's about interruption and darts have ie stunning or just regular spell interruption from damage.

    gorgonzolaAerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    Skatan wrote: »
    it's easy to stack up close to infinite ammo on them to avoid having them go Leeroy Jenkins and rush into melee with their fists when they run out of darts.
    there is an autopause that works wonderfully for this, and also to let you know if the mmm, energy blades and all the magically generated weapons are all used or expired. it is useful also with every ranged weapon to know when a type of ammo is expired, let's say that you are equipping on a toon a bow and mundane ammo, to hit against pfmw, enchanted arrows, to hit with better thac0 in the other situations, and arrows with elemental damage to disrupt trough a stoneskin, with the autopause on when the character consume all the ammo type you are using for a purpose you don't have the risk that he switches to an other ammo without you noticing it.
    it is a not intrusive type of autopause, while other ones like on end of round or spell cast are intrusive, even if can be really useful, imho every player should have it set on by default.

    SkatanAerakar
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,209
    edited April 2019
    ^- Thanks @gorgonzola, but I only use two auto-pauses and nothing else; pause on enemy sighted and traps, and often I switch of the former as well.

    gorgonzolaAerakar
  • ArchGhostArchGhost Member Posts: 30
    Grond0 wrote: »

    Which game you're playing also makes a big difference. The list was written from the perspective of BGT or Tutu; if you're playing the EE then slings are comparatively better (as they do strength damage), while the Sling of Seeking is barely worth using (rather than one of the best weapons in the game).

    Note also that Arbane having free action must be the result of another mod. Otherwise (in both BGT and BG2EE) it will protect against hold person, but not give free action (so won't protect against web).

    Yeah I'm not familiar at all with EE, I pulled this all out of nerd memory. Other than one of the early EE patches preserved the infinite launcher + ammunition damage/effects stacking, which is a bug that only persisted in an unfixed game before and may have been fixed already.

    You're right, Arbane should only grant immunity to hold, it's probably one of the various (badly needed) fixpacks that changed it over the years like Ease of Use, Baldurdash, or G3. G3 does a lot of sneaky stuff without saying, like fixing the door back into the vault level of Watcher's Keep.

    gorgonzola
  • BlackbɨrdBlackbɨrd Member Posts: 263
    Morning Stars look really cool in game, but there's sadly only 4 or 5 good morning stars in all of BG2.

    Apart from The Sleeper and Wyvern's Tail the only other Morning Stars are the generic morning star +3 and Ice Star which is also pretty underrated.



    I don't know man, I just love the look and idea of a morning star.

    Aerakar
  • LammasLammas Member Posts: 188
    Lammas wrote: »
    I've yet to test the buffed Pixie Prick but I'd imagine it's going to be one of my BG2 favorites now as well. Trying that out soon.

    As I have finally started my first BG2EE run a week or so ago I'll just have to say that this didn't really happen. It's not because I'd think it doesn't do what I expected it to, it's just that I I've been enjoying the Boomerang Dagger in the mainhand of my dagger wielding Blade since the beginning of the game. Even though Pixie Prick is in my other slot I rarely if ever actually switch to it and it's just kinda sitting there. I still really like the buff it was given and it'll probably end up being my optional mainhand weapon well into ToB.

    Now that I know you can pickpocket the Boomerang Dagger it's definitely secured a place as one of my all time favorite things around, even if it does get replaced by Firetooth later on.

    Speaking of Pixie Prick and morningstars, I can't help but notice the Sleeper still has the suuuper crappy +4 to save that Pixie Prick was allowed to get rid of.

    Aerakar
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 707
    Lammas wrote: »
    Lammas wrote: »

    Speaking of Pixie Prick and morningstars, I can't help but notice the Sleeper still has the suuuper crappy +4 to save that Pixie Prick was allowed to get rid of.

    Is the Pixie Prick save no longer +6 versus the sleep effect? I recall this being the case in the past.

  • LammasLammas Member Posts: 188
    Aerakar wrote: »
    Lammas wrote: »
    Lammas wrote: »

    Speaking of Pixie Prick and morningstars, I can't help but notice the Sleeper still has the suuuper crappy +4 to save that Pixie Prick was allowed to get rid of.

    Is the Pixie Prick save no longer +6 versus the sleep effect? I recall this being the case in the past.

    It's just a save vs poison in EE, no bonus to saving throw (at least on the card).

    Aerakar
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    every weapon and spell that has powerful effects that use a ST check are only powerful as the player is good to help them with doom and greater malison.

    for the weapons it works even better then for the spells as for the spell you have to count on redundancy, have your mage memorize more then one issue to be sure that it has effect, but for the weapons the redundancy is guaranteed by the apr, the more attacks you do the more the enemy has chance to fail.
    to have a weapon that put an enemy to sleep (PP) or stun him (CF) is really powerful, but has to be somehow helped by your casters as every save or else based tactic.

    also using a save or else weapon who you attack is important, a boss for his levels or a shorty for his racial bonuses are much more likely to save, as well as some classes. if you focus with the PP or an other save or else weapon against a boss that has a big chance to save instead of using it to put at sleep some helpers that have much more chance to fail the save you are probably not using that weapon in the wisest way.

    both to take out helpers with not optimal ST and against doomed and grater malisoned bosses the save or else weapons can be very powerful, if someone uses them on the bosses without helping the save or else effect to trigger probably it is a sign that those weapons are misused, not that they lack of power.

  • LammasLammas Member Posts: 188
    I'm really unsure what made you write that?
    I've in no way said Pixie Prick was bad now and I believe I've offered it nothing but praise for how it was improved in EE. All I said is that I've barely used it as I've ended up using another improved thing over it most of the time.

    I will however claim that it was underwhelming back in vanilla when it offered the opposition a whopping bonus to save, especially so considering sleep is a lot less effective vs general enemy populace of BG2. It was mostly just ok for being a +3 weapon with situationally useful effect.

    And then there is the Sleeper. No amount of convincing will make that thing look decent in my eyes. Heck, now that I looked at it again I'm even reminded that it doesn't work on non-humanoids :D It's just one of those things one might pick up early if you don't know where any better stuff is and that's about it.

    gorgonzola
  • iosfrustrationiosfrustration Member Posts: 144
    Daystar is one of my absolute faves from a RP perspective.
    I love the whole aesthetic of the thing, a low-level good-aligned charname can sneak past the litch, grab this powerful divine artefact. Then use it to deliver righteous vengeance and smite evildoers everywhere.
    Actually it’s arguable that it probably IS a top tier weapon, but I still love it

    gorgonzola
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    Sword of Balduran - good for monk (i.e. Rasaad) to place in off-hand to hit 100% MR early and without sacrificing Gaxx to him. So he will look like left-handed fighter who makes 4 fist attacks and one with Balduran (which also have unique green hue). Yes -4 thaco penalty to main hand, but monk has very good thaco and you can always unequip it if fighting somebody with ultra high AC.

    Blade of Roses (+3) + Kundane - great early setup for Haer'Dalis. Due to elf bonuses and his 2 stars in short and long swords you'll get good APR and thaco without sacrificing Belm or Ninjato of SB.

    gorgonzolaDjasko_Amsterdam
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    blade of roses is a good weapon but in EE, where the returning daggers can be used with the MH while DW i rate them a better option.
    he does not have the elf thac0 bonus with them, and the boomerang one has 1 less thac0, but with it he has 4 apr as with kundane-belm and the damage is very comparable 2d4+2 vs 1d8+3, only 0.5 difference on average. when SNT can be used it is anyway the better choice and only if some FT or FMT is in the party or if a monk wants to weld it OH using the fists MH it is not the case.
    probably in ToB the best build for HD is blackrazor+SNT as after the beginning of each battle he will be with a permanent improved haste, +3 str (25 with the right gear), getting 20 free HP and draining levels every 15% of the attacks, that is often as both SNT and the almost permanent free improved haste boost his MH apr.

    MartinWSkatan
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    Hmm... Tbh, I never thought that throwing weapon can benefit from off-hand. I just tried with Boomerang+Kundane and there were only 2 APR in tooltip? Well, of course there will be 4 with IH, but main weapon+kundane will be 6 in that case.
    But what I like from your idea is that you can actually combine throwing dagger and wield shield (like Dragonscale) and put HD to permanent 100% FR/LR easily without losing much offense power. (I'm huge fan of lightning wand and aganazzar so I usually try to build group with as many characters immune to fire/lightning as possible to minimize consumption of protection spells)

  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    returning weapons only benefit from the OH weapon if are used in mlee mode, when you use boomerang (mlee) + kundane you get 4 apr, but when you use boomerang ranged you get only 2 apr even if kundane is in the OH slot.
    while in the original game was impossible to equip in a MH slot a returning weapon if the OH one is occupied by a weapon and not a shield EE makes it possible, but checks if the returning weapon is in mlee mode, then treats it as a regular mlee weapon, or in ranged mode, then makes the OH weapon inactive.
    this enables the use of the returning daggers as mlee +1apr weapons and makes also more convenient to keep returning weapons in a MH slot for those that use them as ranged weapons and DW with other weapons.
    ie a korgan that was using the returning hammer as ranged weapons but mlee dw 2 axes in original had to go to the inventory, unequip the OH axe and equip the hammer MH, in EE has only to click on the hammer icon without having to go to the inventory.

    this new EE characteristic, probably created to avoid to have to go to the inventory every time you want to switch between DW and ranged added the 2 returning daggers to the number of +1apr mlee weapons, that originally was only 3, one of them needing to be monk or to have UAI.
    with up to 5 +1 apr mlee weapons it is easy to pull 5 apr in more toons also without using fighters with GM and lev 13 or you can have a blade at 4 apr and still have 3 other apr weapons to boost the other toons.

    MartinWSkatan
  • MartinWMartinW Member Posts: 46
    Ha, it is amazing about Baldur's Gate series that even after all this years there is always something new :) thanks for the insight, this opens new options. So technically we have 5 +1 apr weapons:
    - Belm
    - Kundane
    - SNT
    - Boomerang
    - Firetooth

    And if you can provide high strength + EBS even weakest characters might become decent in melee.

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,504
    There were actually 4 speed weapons in vanilla: the Scarlet Ninja-to, Belm, Kundane, and the Shadow Thief Dagger from the Bodhi questline, the last of which was a nonmagical weapon with no STR bonus that set APR rather than incremented it (better for Project Image clones). EE removed the extra attack per round from the Shadow Thief Dagger.

    gorgonzolaGenderNihilismGirdle
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    edited April 28
    @semiticgod as i could never force my goody two shoes to go in the bodhi's direction i did ignore of that dagger, that anyway was not a +1apr weapon but a set to 2 apr one.
    nice to know it, thank you.

    about the returning weapons in EE i am not sure if for the firetooth dagger, that in the description has still 2d4 damage in EE has been nerfed to 1d4 or not, can anyone have more insight about it?

    i also found the original way to deal with the returning weapons better balanced, there firetooth surely had 2d4, but those weapons could not be used as mlee +1apr one while DW mlee.
    also only boomerang and the hangard's axe received the str bonus ranged, while the most powerful firetooth and anty undead axe did not, in EE all the returning weapons get it afaik.
    this make the returning weapons, and particularly the daggers that give the apr gain much more powerful in EE.

    EDIT: i am still waiting that some mod introduces a +1 apr weapon for the clerics, they are the only class that can not use a single +1 apr weapon, mlee or ranged, in the game.
    as the most combat oriented of the casting classes (pally and ranger apart as they are fighter like classes with some casting, but get fighter HLA, apr gain and the rest) they imho should have at least one, maybe a not super powerful club or a sling, but at least one would be welcome by me.

    GenderNihilismGirdle
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,127
    I always liked adjatha: heal some hp while being protected from charm and domination. Very useful.

    Also stiletto of demarchess: stun is nice. It is largely replaced by the jade fang these days I guess

    AerakarThacoBell
  • Djasko_AmsterdamDjasko_Amsterdam Member Posts: 47
    edited May 11
    I dont know if its been mentioned and if it counts.. but Haer'Dalis' Chaos Blade +2 is just awesome. Sadly, getting him into your party will require you to do the Planar Prison quest, which can be tricky at low levels to complete. If you dont he will start annoying you about the quest. Once you do finish it, though, you'll also have Kundane, the perfect offhander for Haerie.. allowing him to make 2 attacks with his Chaos Blade. Every time you land a hit with it, dexterity is reduced on the target, making it easier to hit each time Haerie lands one.

    MartinWgorgonzola
  • gorgonzolagorgonzola Member Posts: 3,678
    From that quest you get also your first pair of boots of speed, that alone are imho much more powerful then most of the weapons as open so much tactical options, making your thieves much better at stabbing and at evading the enemy's revenge after the stab, making your flankers much quicker in reaching a given target, to take down fast a dangerous enemy, save a tank that is in peril and whose health is becoming to be dangerously low and so on.

    i personally don't find the planar prison so difficult, at least in vanilla, with scs it is a different story. a good thief and a good mage can be very helpful, but i did it so many times quite early, using so many different tactics, once i even managed to attack the boss both from the east, as usual, and from the south, you have to clear the fleshy pods to do it, but it is possible.
    by the way the fleshy pods, on both sides, once cleared, can be used tactically, it is perfectly possible to use them to hide the party and heal or buff again.

    iosfrustrationDjasko_Amsterdam
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,182
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    From that quest you get also your first pair of boots of speed, that alone are imho much more powerful then most of the weapons as open so much tactical options, making your thieves much better at stabbing and at evading the enemy's revenge after the stab, making your flankers much quicker in reaching a given target, to take down fast a dangerous enemy, save a tank that is in peril and whose health is becoming to be dangerously low and so on.

    i personally don't find the planar prison so difficult, at least in vanilla, with scs it is a different story. a good thief and a good mage can be very helpful, but i did it so many times quite early, using so many different tactics, once i even managed to attack the boss both from the east, as usual, and from the south, you have to clear the fleshy pods to do it, but it is possible.
    by the way the fleshy pods, on both sides, once cleared, can be used tactically, it is perfectly possible to use them to hide the party and heal or buff again.

    For me the opening fight in the planar prison itself is one of the deadliest parts of SoA. It's one of the more dangerous fights in any of the stronghold quests, especially on something like a no reload run. Unlike most of the fights in the game, you warp in surrounded by baddies, and a pretty diverse group of them. Mages with beefy protection spells, fighters with large hit point pools, and at least one thief with a strong backstab. There's no opportunity to line up your party into the ideal formation.

    The rest of it isn't particularly challenging or dangerous, especially if you know how to avoid the pits. I'd probably rank it in the middle of challenge for the strongholds, below Firkraag, the Unseeing Eye and the Planar Sphere, but above the rest.

    iosfrustrationgorgonzola
  • iosfrustrationiosfrustration Member Posts: 144
    edited May 12
    gorgonzola wrote: »
    From that quest you get also your first pair of boots of speed, that alone are imho much more powerful...

    Agree with this very strongly. Those boots are end-game gear. They will be used heavily by almost everyone right until the end of TOB.

    The other piece of insanely powerful kit in the prison is the short sword of +1APR. I ignored this as “just a shortsword” for approx 15 years before realising how powerful it could be for any fighter-type. It’s not quite end game gear, but it gets a lot of use for most of the game from me.

    IMO the prison is well balanced. Very good rewards and a good challenge to get them. Unlike Belm... any idiot can just waltz on in there and pick Belm up, no challenge at all :-)

    MartinWgorgonzolaAerakar
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