Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories

Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
Attention, new and old users! Please read the new rules of conduct for the forums, and we hope you enjoy your stay!

Diablo IV(4)

SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
edited November 2019 in Off-Topic
Trailer(cinematic)


Trailer(gameplay)


I loved to see Deckard Cain, i wish that Blizzard makes non canon everything who happened between Cain and the Butterfly in the ACT 1 of D3.

I really wish that they go back to Diablo roots. How a sorcerer(ss) become better at casting fireball on Diablo?
Diablo 1 - Reading tomes
Diablo 2 - Investing skill points
Diablo 3 - Finding a bigger and sharper axe.
Diablo 4 - ??????????

I really hated that Diablo III has a lot of cooldowns and stats linked to gear. I love when powerful skills has his drawbacks and cost of gettin then. For eg, the Strongest Dark Magic on Dark Souls 2. Can deal massive damage (dlc spoilers below)

But
  • Requires 4 Attenument slots. So you could have easily 100+ Dark Orbs or be able to cast Climax
  • Require high STATS, mainly FHT
  • Costs all souls and only does significant damage if you sacrifice at least 5k souls
  • Require a long quest in a covenant
  • Require facing DarkLurker, the strongest boss VS hex in the game

This skill on D3 would be just a skill that everyone gets at a specific level, no effor required, deals 50000% of the sharpness of your axe in damage and had 180 seconds cooldown On D2, would be a high level skill that requires a lot of investments in synergies to deal massive damage and his effectiveness will depend the mob and situation.

lefreutanastiel
«134567

Comments

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,669
    We know next to nothing about this except that it is has Blizzard's typical, peerless smooth gameplay and that the game is quite obviously going for a darker tone and LOADS of callbacks to Diablo 2 (whose rumored remaster did not materialize, and now I think I know why). I watched a live stream of someone at Blizzcon playing the demo, and I was impressed. Fact is, this game is at LEAST 18 months off, and Blizzard has announced they are going to be giving quarterly updates starting next year. Do not expect this in 2020, I wouldn't even necessarily say it's guaranteed for 2021. But it is coming, and they absolutely listened to the people who said D3 was too "cheerful" (which was overblown anyway).

    My main takeaway while looking at the NPC and character portraits when the streamer was playing the demo was that it had a very heavy Icewind Dale vibe to the art-style more than anything else, which is a good thing. It seems clear to me based on the 3 classes announced that they are going to be giving us the original 7 classes from Diablo 2. 5 at launch, and 2 more with an expansion. Runes ARE back, though in what capacity no one can say. It appeared to me that are replacing gems. There IS a skill tree, but it mostly looks passive. We'll see. It's gonna be a long wait.

    JuliusBorisovBelleSorciere
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    edited November 2019
    According to a guy in CODEX

    • No stats (ok…attack, defense, life)
    • cooldowns
    • linear talent tree
    • no procedurally generated maps
    • but…but…its dark…and “gritty”…
    • basiclally its D3…dumbed down…with darker graphics…
    rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/diablo-iv.130530/page-5#post-6388132

    Seriously. ANOTHER BARBIE DRESSING GAME???

    One screenshot that they posted on codex

    d0NDjp5.jpg

    looks like the information was right.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,669
    edited November 2019
    I seriously don't know what people want from this genre anymore. And I still don't see how cooldowns are functionally any different than prohibitive mana or resource costs or daily limits like in D&D (which in a game like Neverwinter Nights can be bypassed as a mechanic entirely by pressing one button and "resting"). What exactly about Diablo 2 was so complicated and deep that made it utterly impossible to please anyone thereafter?? It's one of the best games of all-time, but good god, if you know what you're doing, you literally put the bare minimum amount into Strength and Dexterity, but absolutely NOTHING whatsoever into Energy and pump every other point into Vitality.

    Was Diablo 3 as good as the first 2?? No, it wasn't. If was by no stretch of the imagination "bad". It was a great time-waster to mindlessly slay demons with some moderate RPG elements. Isometric ARPGs are not Pathfinder. They are meant to be a great way to have some fun, kill monsters, get cool loot with cool skills, and relieve some stress while doing so. Even the most hardcore theorycrafting on them isn't exactly a calculus problem. I mean, in the original Diablo, you spent at least half the game as a Warrior or Rogue auto-attacking with sword or bow.

    kanisathaJuliusBorisovSkatanBelleSorciere
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    edited November 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I seriously don't know what people want from this genre anymore. And I still don't see how cooldowns are functionally any different than prohibitive mana or resource costs or daily limits like in D&D (which in a game like Neverwinter Nights can be bypassed as a mechanic entirely by pressing one button and "resting"). What exactly about Diablo 2 was so complicated and deep that made it utterly impossible to please anyone thereafter??

    Cooldowns are a artificial limitation that makes no sense. A mage running out of power or a alrchemist of potions or a gunslinger of ammo makes sense. All of then needing to rest and re prepare their "weapons" too. The mage meditate, the alchemist to mix potions and the gunsliger to reload his ammo in a working bench. A barbarian able to jump and then only jump again after few seconds makes no sense.

    Also, i don't like to consta watch a action bar.
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    No, it wasn't. If was by no stretch of the imagination "bad". It was a great time-waster to mindlessly slay demons with some moderate RPG element

    Come on, even Battlefield 1 had more RPG elements than Diablo 3. At least on BF 1 i don't see everyone running at lv cap...


    More screens

    unknown.png

    unknown.png

    Looks better than the itemization but still too dumbed down and wow-like

    WarChiefZeke
  • WarChiefZekeWarChiefZeke Member Posts: 2,625

    Cooldowns are a artificial limitation that makes no sense. A mage running out of power or a alrchemist of potions or a gunslinger of ammo makes sense.

    That's how I feel about it, and is one of the reasons I almost never play games with cooldowns, with very few exceptions.

    The bottom line comes down to resource management. Managing a certain number of spells and abilities per day makes every use of it meaningful.

    Cooldowns feel artificial in a way that limited use doesn't.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959
    I never bought or played D3 or its expansion.

    But that gameplay trailer gave me very strong D2 vibes with Barb, Sorc, Druid.

    Though I preferred Amazon, or even better, an atypical Sorc Enchantress build. I archetype to archers but I do like some magic casting on the side.

    So, call me interested, but of course, it will likely take a small eternity to come out, typical for Blizzard. D3 was announced June 2008, and it didn't come out until May 2012.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    edited November 2019

    Cooldowns are a artificial limitation that makes no sense. A mage running out of power or a alrchemist of potions or a gunslinger of ammo makes sense.

    That's how I feel about it, and is one of the reasons I almost never play games with cooldowns, with very few exceptions.

    The bottom line comes down to resource management. Managing a certain number of spells and abilities per day makes every use of it meaningful.

    Cooldowns feel artificial in a way that limited use doesn't.

    Unless cooldown have a lore explanation like for eg, a spirit that needs time to be reformed or a LMG that needs time to cooldown after firing tons of rounds(but IMO the player should be able to change the barrel if he had one in the inventory) , i found cooldowns very artificial.

    Anyway, my impressions. I saw the itemization "that will be awful", i saw the skill/talent trees "that will be a average modern game", not a complete barbie dressing game like D3 but not a D1 like masterpiece.

    Quickblade wrote: »
    I never bought or played D3 or its expansion.

    But that gameplay trailer gave me very strong D2 vibes with Barb, Sorc, Druid.

    Though I preferred Amazon, or even better, an atypical Sorc Enchantress build. I archetype to archers but I do like some magic casting on the side.

    So, call me interested, but of course, it will likely take a small eternity to come out, typical for Blizzard. D3 was announced June 2008, and it didn't come out until May 2012.

    I would love to see necromancer. Mainly because few games implemented necromancy in a good way and Diablo 2 is one of then. IMO is the second best, losing only to Might & Magic necromancer. DA:I had the WORST necromancer by far IMO and they got rid of blood magic for it...

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,669
    edited November 2019
    Quickblade wrote: »
    I never bought or played D3 or its expansion.

    But that gameplay trailer gave me very strong D2 vibes with Barb, Sorc, Druid.

    Though I preferred Amazon, or even better, an atypical Sorc Enchantress build. I archetype to archers but I do like some magic casting on the side.

    So, call me interested, but of course, it will likely take a small eternity to come out, typical for Blizzard. D3 was announced June 2008, and it didn't come out until May 2012.

    There is no way they are gonna take 4 years, but it might take two. I'm holding out from Q3 of 2021, but that might be optimistic. But I would expect an announcement of something more concrete next year, Strangely enough, even though it was announced last year, there is still no information on Immortal (not like anyone cares).

    On the plus side, Blizzard is giving updates to Diablo 3 LONG after it makes any financial sense for them to do so, and are even adding a whole new series of sets to the game for each class, which is frankly no small undertaking. My guess is they are going to release just enough interesting content for die-hards to keep each new season of D3 interesting and at the same time provide updates on the new game at about the same pace. But again, there is no way this is getting delayed til 2023. They did say it is not coming soon (not even Blizzard soon), but by this time next year they are gonna have to have more to show.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    edited November 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    Quickblade wrote: »
    I never bought or played D3 or its expansion.

    But that gameplay trailer gave me very strong D2 vibes with Barb, Sorc, Druid.

    Though I preferred Amazon, or even better, an atypical Sorc Enchantress build. I archetype to archers but I do like some magic casting on the side.

    So, call me interested, but of course, it will likely take a small eternity to come out, typical for Blizzard. D3 was announced June 2008, and it didn't come out until May 2012.

    There is no way they are gonna take 4 years, but it might take two. I'm holding out from Q3 of 2021, but that might be optimistic. But I would expect an announcement of something more concrete next year, Strangely enough, even though it was announced last year, there is still no information on Immortal (not like anyone cares).

    On the plus side, Blizzard is giving updates to Diablo 3 LONG after it makes any financial sense for them to do so, and are even adding a whole new series of sets to the game for each class, which is frankly no small undertaking. My guess is they are going to release just enough interesting content for die-hards to keep each new season of D3 interesting and at the same time provide updates on the new game at about the same pace. But again, there is no way this is getting delayed til 2023. They did say it is not coming soon (not even Blizzard soon), but by this time next year they are gonna have to have more to show.


    Not only that. They listened to the community. Din't made D4 exactly the dream of old school RPG fans, the itemization looks very simplistic, the character progression too BUT at least they added this RPG elements back.

    In nutshell
    Diablo 1 - ARPG
    Diablo 1 HELLFIRE - ARPG
    Diablo 2 classic - ARPG
    Diablo 2 LOD - Arpg / loot hunter hybrid
    Diablo 3 - Pure barbie dressing game
    Diablo 3 RoS - Barbie dressing game where at least the loot is not awful
    Diablo 4 - ???

    IMO D4 will be better in RPG than D3(is hard to make worst) but not good as D2/D1.

    edit : some details from strem according to a rpgcodex user
    Hardcore mode will be there.
    5 classes confirmed for launch, and more will be introduced through expansions. Cosmetics, stash, etc, can come in the form of microtransactions.
    Want to make crafting a bigger thing in D4. Still a work in progress. Two goals for crafting - 1) Want to make sure gathering is fully integrated into the open world. 2) If you go and collect recipes and materials and spend time to craft something that it is worth your while.
    Max level is currently 40. Could change.
    There is no shoulder slot in the game. It's a visual change, and if they need more item slots for mechanical reasons, they can do that separately.
    Trying out different types of legendaries that enable support builds.
    Goal for seasons is to change up items as much as possible. Want new challenges in dungeons, new monster affixes, and want the season to feel like a new experience with new things to explore.
    No diminishing returns on CCs. Certain skills make you unstoppable so you can break out of that CC. Can customize character to be more resistant against CCs.
    Achievements are planned.
    Charms are NOT currently in the works.
    Talent trees will be expanded upon in expansions, but to what degree, they don't know yet.
    Trying to be more "strict" with gold for players. Can spend gold to gamble like with Kadala.
    On Paragon levels - They have a philosophy of wanting you to be able to log in for 15, 30, or 60 minutes (or however long) and get something accomplished, but as far as specific implementation of paragon levels, it's undecided.
    There are hundreds of dungeons in the world
    On end game - They want there to be a variety of activities. World bosses are one example. Key dungeons are another. Key dungeons are inspired by greater rifts and will be another end game activity. Different system than greater rifts. Key dungeons don't scale infinitely, but scale to an extent that there is no concern about reaching the max.
    At max level, you get keys, and those keys will be for a specific dungeon. The key when used transforms the dungeon into a max level dungeon and has a rank on it, and that rank increases the difficulty of the dungeon. The key has affixes on it, the affixes add mechanics to the dungeon, boss fights, etc.
    One of the affixes is a lightning pulse obelisk, it follows you through dungeon. You can’t kill it and it releases lightning, so you have to keep moving. It’s an object that chases you through the dungeon and adds challenge to the experience. Affixes change the way a dungeon plays.
    Legendary items further allow you to modify skills to customize play style. Allow you to further your skills/talents more than you would through the trees/skills alone. Hundreds of legendary items being designed. More about modding existing talents and skills than adding flat damage.
    There are gear sets. Sets gives the ability to live out a fantasy. Legendaries are as or more powerful than sets. Sets are a stepping stone to more powerful legendaries.
    They are looking at bringing transmog into the game.
    No auction house.
    Haven't settled on a specific trading system yet. They want you to mainly get items from killing monsters. Exploring possible systems to introduce trading, learning towards 3 categories of items – 1) consumables, mats, random armor, etc. 2) items that can be traded once and then become soulbound. 3) And then some items that are bound on pickup. Those 3 categories for items, but they are taking feedback on this.
    Crafting – Definitely going to be taking crafting forward into Diablo IV and they want to expand on it from Diablo III. End game will be about item modification. Crafting will incorporate the world – going out and getting things – slaying monsters, finding something rare in the world, etc. Won’t be anything as in depth as PoE however.
    Seasons – They want to modify the most powerful items from season to season so the metagame shifts, along with adding in new items.
    Content release will most likely occur through expansions.
    On talent trees – taking feedback on this. Talent trees in the demo are as they currently stand in the game. Quinn noted they look simple and shallow. They want legendary items to add a lot of that depth to the talents. All of it is still being developed.
    On monetitization – D4 will be available as a base game. There will be expansions. Cosmetics will be available in some form as microtransactions.
    You can modify keybinds.

    https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/diablo-iv.130530/page-10#post-6388519

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,669
    edited November 2019
    I don't really give a crap about trading or PvP, so it matters little to me. The only two games in the genre where trading has ever been central to the game are Diablo 2 and Path of Exile, and the trading system back in the day in D2 was rife with duping and scammers. I want to find my own loot, and that's the best thing they did with Diablo 3, bar none. Once they abandoned the AH, the loot drops weren't based on a million people farming for items, they were based on YOU farming for them. People complained about PvP not being implemented, but the fact is that the Brawler's Arena was more than was EVER implemented in Diablo 2. PvP in D2 consisted of flagging yourself in town and dueling, and, quite frankly, it's literally the only game in the genre that has ever had a PvP scene. No one can name another one. These are not PvP games, and the only thing focusing on it does is have a negative effect on the 95% of people who have no interest in it. I play Diablo to kill monsters, use cool skills, and find sick loot. That's it. That's all it's ever been. And it's why it's my favorite series of all-time despite it's flaws.

    Skatan
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    I don't really give a crap about trading or PvP, so it matters little to me. The only two games in the genre where trading has ever been central to the game are Diablo 2 and Path of Exile, and the trading system back in the day in D2 was rife with duping and scammers. I want to find my own loot, and that's the best thing they did with Diablo 3, bar none. Once they abandoned the AH, the loot drops weren't based on a million people farming for items, they were based on YOU farming for them. People complained about PvP not being implemented, but the fact is that the Brawler's Arena was more than was EVER implemented in Diablo 2. PvP in D2 consisted of flagging yourself in town and dueling, and, quite frankly, it's literally the only game in the genre that has ever had a PvP scene. No one can name another one. These are not PvP games, and the only thing focusing on it does is have a negative effect on the 95% of people who have no interest in it. I play Diablo to kill monsters, use cool skills, and find sick loot. That's it. That's all it's ever been. And it's why it's my favorite series of all-time despite it's flaws.


    about " I play Diablo to kill monsters, use cool skills, and find sick loot."
    I play Diablo to experience a fast action phased RPG, to feel like i an my character slaying armies, Diablo 1/2 offers it for me. Diablo 3 had no immersion and no RPG. Hell, i completed Diablo 2 NAKED as a necromancer.

    About PvP. PvP on D3 is awful because
    • Insane powercreep, most pvp ends in one shot if both players are well geared.
    • If not well geared, since there are no character building and player skills plays almost no role in the result, the guy with better gear will win 99,99% of time

    This is completely different than on D2 PvP. D2 doesn't have a good PvP IMO but have a average PvP. D3 PvP in other hands is broken beyond repair.

    Anyway, a good game in therms of PvP is IMO Dark Souls. You see people with almost no gear doing well on PvP. Because your character and your skills as a player matters.



    The unique dark souls who is bad in PvP therms is IMO Dark Souls 3 because DS3 is just about fast swinging blades. I got invaded dozens of times, never saw anyone using any other type of weapon. And poise doesn't exist on DkS 3, so not only a guy with a katana can not only damages you in plate armor(something that makes no sense) but he also can STUNLOCK you. And magic? Useless. You will spend half of your FP and Stamina, then watch a 4 seconds long casting lightning animation and your lightning is so slow that the guy can just walk away, doesn't even need to roll. I don't consider myself a good DkS player, and won about 75% of PvP matches using mostly pyromancy and winged spear... On Dark Souls 3, i hated the PvP. is repetitive, monotonous and annoying.

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    So far, I have mixed feeling. Some good things, some bad things. I hope they succeed in making it feel like D2 and not like D3.
    [*] cooldowns

    :(

    Mana gives more depth to a game, I don't understand why they keep using cooldowns in modern games.

    If you have 20 mana and two spells that cost 10. You can choose to cast two times spell A, two times spell B or 1 time each. With cooldowns, only the third option is possible.
    [*] no procedurally generated maps

    Is this confirmed? Procedural generation is a key feature of a Diablo game for me.
    Cosmetics will be available in some form as microtransactions.

    Well fuck. Thanks Activision...
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    There is no way they are gonna take 4 years, but it might take two. I'm holding out from Q3 of 2021, but that might be optimistic. But I would expect an announcement of something more concrete next year, Strangely enough, even though it was announced last year, there is still no information on Immortal (not like anyone cares).

    It's Blizzard, they are as slow as releasing games as Beamdog is as releasing patches. 4 years seems possible.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    lefreut wrote: »
    Well fuck. Thanks Activision...

    Every Blizzard game has post launch monetization, except D3 post RMAH removal. IMO if they use a monetization similar to Path of Exile, i will love. I mean, look to bone spear skill for eg, people would pay to have a red bone spear or to change the animation.

    Having your raise skeletons raising mummies or armored skeletons even if they are visual only changes will be interesting too.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    These are not PvP games, and the only thing focusing on it does is have a negative effect on the 95% of people who have no interest in it. I play Diablo to kill monsters, use cool skills, and find sick loot. That's it.

    Ayup.

  • TrauerweideTrauerweide Member Posts: 27
    Wooow great trailer! And the game play looks awesome too!

    Thanks for sharing... I did not know a Diablo IV is gonna be released so short after Diablo III.
    I like 2 aswell as 3 but 2 was much more darker and as it seems the new game will follow rather this direction.

    Lilith... well mother of all demons or what will it be? Hehe she should get ready to be smashed by my druid!!! B)

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959
    Wooow great trailer! And the game play looks awesome too!

    Thanks for sharing... I did not know a Diablo IV is gonna be released so short after Diablo III.
    I like 2 aswell as 3 but 2 was much more darker and as it seems the new game will follow rather this direction.

    Lilith... well mother of all demons or what will it be? Hehe she should get ready to be smashed by my druid!!! B)

    1 was better than 2 in terms of "darkness" but it was rather limited in design. You went through a cathedral dungeon. Then cramped catacombs, then dark open caves with lava, and then hell.

    2 wasn't quite so dark, but had a more cosmopolitan atmosphere, what with temperate forest and plains and then deserts and tombs, and then jungles and abandoned temples, and then hell. And then ice. It was much more brightly lit. Honestly, there's no reason you should see a monster at 90 ft as you do at 10 feet.

    Trauerweide
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,669
    edited November 2019
    Lilith is Mephisto's daughter. Essentially, she and her lover Inarius (an Angel) created Sanctuary when they had a forbidden love affair between angel and demon. Which is why the term "mother" is thrown about in the trailer. They are the reasons humans even exist. Before them, it was just demons and angels battling constantly (and this is one thing Reaper of Souls showed really well). Diablo lore is actually pretty decent, especially for an ARPG. The only real slip-up they had was Maghda.

    The idea Diablo 3 wasn't "dark" is very overblown. Which is why the example people turn to is literally a secret easter egg level. It wasn't AS dark as 2, but 2 was also not as dark as 1, which was damn near claustrophobic. It's really the lighting that people have a problem with. As I said, they are being explicitly darker in tone here, but I'm getting a more Icewind Dale feeling than anything from the art in game. People really underestimate how much Matt Ulemen's soundtrack contributed to what you were seeing and feeling on screen in the first two games. I have no idea why he wasn't kept on board except for the seminal "Tristram Theme" for 3. The main way 3 sucks compared to the first two games is that the soundtrack is totally inferior.

    In the end, I see Diablo in the same way I see Doom. Doom boils down the FPS to "rip and tear", and that is essentially what Diablo does for RPGs. It's not a coincidence I think highly of both series. People will note that Doom 3 is also unfairly maligned because it is different, even though it is a stellar game.

    TrauerweideJuliusBorisovSkatan
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    In the end, I see Diablo in the same way I see Doom. Doom boils down the FPS to "rip and tear", and that is essentially what Diablo does for RPGs. It's not a coincidence I think highly of both series. People will note that Doom 3 is also unfairly maligned because it is different, even though it is a stellar game.

    The problem is not that is different. Is that is TOO SIMILAR TO WOW
    • Cooldowns
    • Artstyle
    • homogenization
    • The game starting at lv cap
    • The soundtrack
    • The gameplay loop

    I can play again Diablo 2 and feel like i an a necromancer, doesn't matter if i focus on minions, bone or poison skills, i fell like my curses are gradually getting stronger, that i can animate more and more powerful minions, that i can each level up controll better the battlefield with my bone skills and when i master the creation of unlife, i can revive the dead and create living fire, take control over enemies with attract curse, etc. And can complete the game naked.

    And even in looting therms, when i found a rare ring, i will identify an "please +skill, please + cast speed, etc", on D3 i only care about damage. Diablo should be a dark fantasy ARPG, not a isometric wow / barbie dressing game

    If From Software makes Dark Souls 4 very wow like, in the same aspects, a lot of people will hate it too. Dark Souls should be a dark fantasy too. Considering that Blizzard Irvine doesn't have the same RPG background of Blizzard North, they are too used to post wow mmo, i can't expect a complete return to the roots. But at least the bare minimum of not having two guys at lv cap being clones they implemented.

  • TrauerweideTrauerweide Member Posts: 27
    @jjstraka34 interesting to know I somehow missed who Lilith is. Also I have to admit I did not play Diablo I. Also you are absolutely right about Matt Ulmen and his top notch soundtrack, it was a big mistake to not keep him for Diablo III.

    But the soundtrack for Diablo III is not bad either it just is not as good as the Diablo II.

    Diablo II had a feeling of being in danger all the time like being in a nightmare. It was also particularly harder. Diablo III on the other hand felt like if you are in a fantasy world and it was fun exploring it. You did not have the feeling of horror.

    Anyway I liked both but if I had to choose which is better I would definetly vote for II due to the skill system it has.

    Now I am awaiting IV of course!

  • lefreutlefreut Member Posts: 1,462
    lefreut wrote: »
    Well fuck. Thanks Activision...

    Every Blizzard game has post launch monetization, except D3 post RMAH removal. IMO if they use a monetization similar to Path of Exile, i will love. I mean, look to bone spear skill for eg, people would pay to have a red bone spear or to change the animation.

    Having your raise skeletons raising mummies or armored skeletons even if they are visual only changes will be interesting too.

    Monetization for a free to play game might be ok, but Diablo is not free to play. If I pay full price for a game, I expect to get everything. Sadly, this is less and less the case with modern games.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,669
    edited November 2019
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    In the end, I see Diablo in the same way I see Doom. Doom boils down the FPS to "rip and tear", and that is essentially what Diablo does for RPGs. It's not a coincidence I think highly of both series. People will note that Doom 3 is also unfairly maligned because it is different, even though it is a stellar game.

    The problem is not that is different. Is that is TOO SIMILAR TO WOW
    • Cooldowns
    • Artstyle
    • homogenization
    • The game starting at lv cap
    • The soundtrack
    • The gameplay loop

    I can play again Diablo 2 and feel like i an a necromancer, doesn't matter if i focus on minions, bone or poison skills, i fell like my curses are gradually getting stronger, that i can animate more and more powerful minions, that i can each level up controll better the battlefield with my bone skills and when i master the creation of unlife, i can revive the dead and create living fire, take control over enemies with attract curse, etc. And can complete the game naked.

    And even in looting therms, when i found a rare ring, i will identify an "please +skill, please + cast speed, etc", on D3 i only care about damage. Diablo should be a dark fantasy ARPG, not a isometric wow / barbie dressing game

    If From Software makes Dark Souls 4 very wow like, in the same aspects, a lot of people will hate it too. Dark Souls should be a dark fantasy too. Considering that Blizzard Irvine doesn't have the same RPG background of Blizzard North, they are too used to post wow mmo, i can't expect a complete return to the roots. But at least the bare minimum of not having two guys at lv cap being clones they implemented.

    It's true that at the BEGINNING of Diablo 3 the only thing that mattered was damage. There were two problems then (as the gameplay has always been best in show): the loot itemization and the Auction House. The AH wasn't just a attempt to make money (though it was that) but also to allow trading without the rampant cheating and duping that is impossible to police on Diablo 2 servers. The problem was, loot was not just randomized, it was TOTALLY randomized. Legendary items were essentially useless without the right rolls. After getting my dozenth Witch Doctor Mojo with Dexterity, I knew that the loot portion of the game was not ready for prime-time. On my first character, I flat out could not beat Belial because I hadn't gotten to requisite drops needed to even survive the fight. I went and bought a couple pieces on the AH and downed it the next try. This was not fun.

    The game isn't just based around damage and crit anymore, it is based around synergies between Legendary items and Set items. Now, you can argue that the genre was better when Rare (usually yellow in these type of games) loot should be technically be able to be better than higher tiers, but this has never really been the case since Diablo 2 Vanilla. Once Lord of Destruction came out, every BiS item was a Runeword, Unique, Set, or crafted piece unless you got an ungodly roll. I suppose Path of Exile still has this to some degree, but that has more to do with socket links and colors than any actual stats. And it basically requires re-rolling a piece with infinite crafting materials til you hit the jackpot. Same with making amulets in D2.

    On top of that Kanai's Cube (added way later in Reaper of Souls) allows you to extract powers from Legendary items and equip their effect without wearing the actual piece. One each in regards to jewelry, armor and weapon. This allows you to mix and match the affixes even more. And they also added Legendary gems which are socketed in rings and amulets which you level up over time, but also provide another huge synergy.

    So this is why the power creep became so out of control, and I admit I MUCH prefer the smaller numbers of Diablo 2. And I will admit that the complexity of builds in Diablo 3 isn't exactly rocket science. But it's also a far cry from Barbie goes to the Beach. Even since Reaper came out, they have essentially added a whole other expansion worth of content for free (along with the Necro) that they don't get enough credit for. They could have charged another $40 for it, but instead released it bit by bit over the years.

    People say that Legendary items shouldn't drop from the sky, and I technically agree with this. In Grim Dawn, you can't even see one til level 50. But the fact is, Unique drops are not rare in Diablo 2, and Legendary and Unique items are the exact same thing. And Diablo 3 went a step further by making Ancient and Primal Ancient Legendary drops as well, and while those ARE simply bigger stat sticks, they do provide something to shoot for on two whole new tiers of rarity even AFTER you get the piece you need.

    Point is, I will always believe Diablo 2 is a better game, but it's contemporaries are Baldur's Gate 2, Might & Magic VI, Heroes 3, Morrowind, Deus Ex and System Shock 2. They just don't make games like that anymore. From about 1998 to 2002, the amount of stone-cold classics released on PC is almost hard to fathom. They were everywhere.

    Skatan
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    lefreut wrote: »
    lefreut wrote: »
    Well fuck. Thanks Activision...

    Every Blizzard game has post launch monetization, except D3 post RMAH removal. IMO if they use a monetization similar to Path of Exile, i will love. I mean, look to bone spear skill for eg, people would pay to have a red bone spear or to change the animation.

    Having your raise skeletons raising mummies or armored skeletons even if they are visual only changes will be interesting too.

    Monetization for a free to play game might be ok, but Diablo is not free to play. If I pay full price for a game, I expect to get everything. Sadly, this is less and less the case with modern games.

    I agree, but we are talking about activi$ion.
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    jjstraka34 wrote: »
    In the end, I see Diablo in the same way I see Doom. Doom boils down the FPS to "rip and tear", and that is essentially what Diablo does for RPGs. It's not a coincidence I think highly of both series. People will note that Doom 3 is also unfairly maligned because it is different, even though it is a stellar game.

    The problem is not that is different. Is that is TOO SIMILAR TO WOW
    • Cooldowns
    • Artstyle
    • homogenization
    • The game starting at lv cap
    • The soundtrack
    • The gameplay loop

    I can play again Diablo 2 and feel like i an a necromancer, doesn't matter if i focus on minions, bone or poison skills, i fell like my curses are gradually getting stronger, that i can animate more and more powerful minions, that i can each level up controll better the battlefield with my bone skills and when i master the creation of unlife, i can revive the dead and create living fire, take control over enemies with attract curse, etc. And can complete the game naked.

    And even in looting therms, when i found a rare ring, i will identify an "please +skill, please + cast speed, etc", on D3 i only care about damage. Diablo should be a dark fantasy ARPG, not a isometric wow / barbie dressing game

    If From Software makes Dark Souls 4 very wow like, in the same aspects, a lot of people will hate it too. Dark Souls should be a dark fantasy too. Considering that Blizzard Irvine doesn't have the same RPG background of Blizzard North, they are too used to post wow mmo, i can't expect a complete return to the roots. But at least the bare minimum of not having two guys at lv cap being clones they implemented.

    It's true that at the BEGINNING of Diablo 3 the only thing that mattered was damage. There were two problems then (as the gameplay has always been best in show): the loot itemization and the Auction House. The AH wasn't just a attempt to make money (though it was that) but also to allow trading without the rampant cheating and duping that is impossible to police on Diablo 2 servers. The problem was, loot was not just randomized, it was TOTALLY randomized. Legendary items were essentially useless without the right rolls. After getting my dozenth Witch Doctor Mojo with Dexterity, I knew that the loot portion of the game was not ready for prime-time. On my first character, I flat out could not beat Belial because I hadn't gotten to requisite drops needed to even survive the fight. I went and bought a couple pieces on the AH and downed it the next try. This was not fun.

    The game isn't just based around damage and crit anymore, it is based around synergies between Legendary items and Set items. Now, you can argue that the genre was better when Rare (usually yellow in these type of games) loot should be technically be able to be better than higher tiers, but this has never really been the case since Diablo 2 Vanilla. Once Lord of Destruction came out, every BiS item was a Runeword, Unique, Set, or crafted piece unless you got an ungodly roll. I suppose Path of Exile still has this to some degree, but that has more to do with socket links and colors than any actual stats. And it basically requires re-rolling a piece with infinite crafting materials til you hit the jackpot. Same with making amulets in D2.

    On top of that Kanai's Cube (added way later in Reaper of Souls) allows you to extract powers from Legendary items and equip their effect without wearing the actual piece. One each in regards to jewelry, armor and weapon. This allows you to mix and match the affixes even more. And they also added Legendary gems which are socketed in rings and amulets which you level up over time, but also provide another huge synergy.

    So this is why the power creep became so out of control, and I admit I MUCH prefer the smaller numbers of Diablo 2. And I will admit that the complexity of builds in Diablo 3 isn't exactly rocket science. But it's also a far cry from Barbie goes to the Beach. Even since Reaper came out, they have essentially added a whole other expansion worth of content for free (along with the Necro) that they don't get enough credit for. They could have charged another $40 for it, but instead released it bit by bit over the years.

    People say that Legendary items shouldn't drop from the sky, and I technically agree with this. In Grim Dawn, you can't even see one til level 50. But the fact is, Unique drops are not rare in Diablo 2, and Legendary and Unique items are the exact same thing. And Diablo 3 went a step further by making Ancient and Primal Ancient Legendary drops as well, and while those ARE simply bigger stat sticks, they do provide something to shoot for on two whole new tiers of rarity even AFTER you get the piece you need.

    Point is, I will always believe Diablo 2 is a better game, but it's contemporaries are Baldur's Gate 2, Might & Magic VI, Heroes 3, Morrowind, Deus Ex and System Shock 2. They just don't make games like that anymore. From about 1998 to 2002, the amount of stone-cold classics released on PC is almost hard to fathom. They were everywhere.

    I think that you missed my point. I Admit that RoS improved the itemization by a lot.

    But my main critique towards D3 RoS is not only the itemization.

    Is the fact that EVERYONE IS A CLONE.

    For example, two lv 70 necromancers are EXACTLY the same. There are no difference, except the cloths that they are wearing and the skills that they putted in his loadout.

    Jay Wilson ruined Diablo. You can see on his GDC presentation( Link ) "13m to 16m in nutshell can be "i found barbarian play boring on D2, so i made every class like barbarian" and on 37:20, he saying that characters are disposable," in a post "mmo" age. When i say that D3 is a "barbie dressing game", i an saying that your character is not important. Your character is just a soulless blank figure to put gear(who matters) into it.

    If you play Diablo only to get loot and slay demons, you can enjoy D3. If you wanna develop a character in a action focused RPG, D3 is awful.

  • anastielanastiel Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 241
    edited November 2019
    I need this, I am also looking forward to the diablo immortal

    JuliusBorisov
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,779
    lefreut wrote: »
    lefreut wrote: »
    Well fuck. Thanks Activision...

    Every Blizzard game has post launch monetization, except D3 post RMAH removal. IMO if they use a monetization similar to Path of Exile, i will love. I mean, look to bone spear skill for eg, people would pay to have a red bone spear or to change the animation.

    Having your raise skeletons raising mummies or armored skeletons even if they are visual only changes will be interesting too.

    Monetization for a free to play game might be ok, but Diablo is not free to play. If I pay full price for a game, I expect to get everything. Sadly, this is less and less the case with modern games.

    My take. If they are adding to the game, then go ahead and charge a dollar or two. You couldn’t change your appearance in first two diablos so I don’t see why it’s an issue here.

    I’d rather have it as a micro transaction than adding $10 to the base price of the game. Pay for what you use. If someone has a couple of dollars to waste on blue, then let them waste it.

    But if I have to buy a “bag” to increase my stash/carrying limit with real money, then it’s bordering on pay to win.

    And if certain magical items are only available for a limited time only, in a real money store where I actually have to buy I store credits in bundles instead of the item outright then it’s a F-you pass on the entire game.

  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 959
    edited November 2019
    deltago wrote: »
    lefreut wrote: »
    lefreut wrote: »
    Well fuck. Thanks Activision...

    Every Blizzard game has post launch monetization, except D3 post RMAH removal. IMO if they use a monetization similar to Path of Exile, i will love. I mean, look to bone spear skill for eg, people would pay to have a red bone spear or to change the animation.

    Having your raise skeletons raising mummies or armored skeletons even if they are visual only changes will be interesting too.

    Monetization for a free to play game might be ok, but Diablo is not free to play. If I pay full price for a game, I expect to get everything. Sadly, this is less and less the case with modern games.

    My take. If they are adding to the game, then go ahead and charge a dollar or two. You couldn’t change your appearance in first two diablos so I don’t see why it’s an issue here.

    Well, technically you could, it just wouldn't be legit. Probably not even legal.

    D1 each class had 3 appearances based on torso armor (light/chain/plate).
    D2 each class had a different head, torso, and I think foot armor appearance based on item type, with color alterations. You can find armor galleries on some D2 websites. All told there must be about half a dozen head armors and a dozen or so torso armors.

    As solely a single player, I would alter an item's armor type to have a certain appearance.
    deltago wrote: »
    I’d rather have it as a micro transaction than adding $10 to the base price of the game. Pay for what you use. If someone has a couple of dollars to waste on blue, then let them waste it.

    But if I have to buy a “bag” to increase my stash/carrying limit with real money, then it’s bordering on pay to win.

    And if certain magical items are only available for a limited time only, in a real money store where I actually have to buy I store credits in bundles instead of the item outright then it’s a F-you pass on the entire game.

    Yeah, my stomach churned a little at the thought of monetization of stash size.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,669
    Stash-size in 3 was only ever purchased by way of the Necromancer pack, which I'd venture to guess 90% of the player-base purchased anyway. You can't reach max stash size without completing the highest level of the Season Journey at least twice (I never have). That said, you'd have to burn through a VAST amount of storage space to get to that point. Juxtapose this with Diablo 2, which essentially has no stash. Most people end of storing gear in their Cube because their entire inventory is filled with Charms. At least in games like Grim Dawn and Diablo 3, everything that drops is either worth some money or can be salvaged for needed crafting mats. And you can pick it all up without going back to town every two minutes. In Diablo 2, you don't pick up 99.9% of the stuff that drops.

    Path of Exile has monetized their stashes, but since they literally charge nothing for the game, and many of those stashes are lovingly designed to store certain things in dedicated slots, I don't fault them in the least for doing so.

  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    edited November 2019
    Going through Diablo: Hellfire at the moment. I still think it's my favorite, since it managed to have the best combination(IMO) of gameplay, story and graphics(style and aesthetic). The story is awfully simple, but good horror thrives on dark atmosphere and mystery.

    Diablo 2 did have a pretty good narrative with Marius and the dark wanderer though, so even if I don't really enjoy replaying it that much..The cinematics are pretty damn good in terms of atmosphere..When I compare it with how LoDs intro looks and feels.. Baals dialogue at mount arreat seems downright corny in comparison.

    Never played Diablo 3 and I don't like how they changed the lore.. Sure make use of retcons if you need to, but not unless it's absolutely necessary... The whole Xanathos gambit Diablo made with Adria makes my head hurt. Then there's this entire concept of the original Prime evil, which again seems so unnecessary... and really short sighted as you pretty much make all the other prime and lesser evils into placeholders for the bigger baddie.. It's a really uninspired and short sighted direction.

    I wish most game developers would have proper Lore department, that limited the amount of tinkering and kept the lore MOSTLY consistent across all the games. I realize some form of artistic interpretation should be allowed, but within reason...

    This new trailer does look more in line with the older Diablo games, butI haven't looked into the books that introduced Lilith and told of the entire Sin War though.

  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    edited November 2019
    Gameplay video.

    1:50 - Druid
    23:15 - Sorceress
    44:30 - Barbarian
    44:20 - David Kim appears and starts to talk



    I agree with him. Druids looks much more like Celtic Druid than WoW Druid and i particularly love it. As for cooldowns, i was thinking that cooldowns would ruin any shapeshift skill/build but despite cooldowns, druid shifting skills looks amazing. Don't get me wrong, are not amazing like D2. As for elemental druids, one thing that i loved is that Druids no longer have redundant skills with sorcerer(ss), his boulder for eg, now is pure earth, I miss around the caster spells like Hurricane but since the game is not read yet, i guess that they will be in final game.

    I also loved the bonus of certain items, like the lightning when he shapeshift effect. Something that can be amazing for a shifter druid but useless for a wind druid.

    As for runewords, they are back. See 31:50

    Barbarians now can have 4 weapons, i din't payed much attention since Barbarian was my least favorite class on D2. And sorceress is the same thing of aways.


    My opinion? Amazing for Blizzard Irvine standards, but could be better. still not good as a RPG compared to Blizzard North Diablo 1/2. I will probably purchase but ideally i wanna see Diablo 1 or 2 remade with this graphics and no change on his mechanics.

  • anastielanastiel Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 241
    legends-of-creation.jpg

    Lore
    Diablo III recap: Diablo used the Black Soulstone to create the Prime Evil by merging the souls of all the Great Evils. Diablo then went on to devastate heaven, but was ultimately defated. Tyrael tried to hide the Black Soulstone, but it was taken by Malthael. Malthael then used the Black Soulstone's power to slaughter the population of Sanctuary. Malthael consumed the Black Soulstone and Evils contained within, but was defeated. With Malthael's defeat the essence of those Evils was freed and released back into the world.

    The history of Sanctuary: Lilith is the daughter of the Lord of Hatred, Mephisto. Lilith fell in love with the angel Inarius and together they created the world of Sanctuary and subsequently the Nephalem.

    The setup for Diablo IV: Malthael's campaign was a genocide across the entire face of Sanctuary. This genocide left a huge power vacuum that groups like the Zakarum or the Church of the Triune are vying the top spot. There's not a lot of hope left in the world.

    https://www.diablofans.com/news/49148-diablo-iv-world-lore-panel-recap

    Diablo IV Community Group Q&A
    https://www.diablofans.com/news/49145-diablo-iv-community-group-q-a

    World:
    Explore the world of Sanctuary; Diablo IV features a contiguous open world, so far the regions we know of are: Scosglen, Featured Peaks, Dry Steppes, Hawezar, and Kehjistan. These regions are massive, and that should not be understated. It's possible to open the region map in the gameplay demo, and doing so reveals a map several times larger than anything we've ever seen in a Diablo game before.



    These regions also have seamless drop-in/drop-out multiplayer, and you may run into other players while exploring the world. Through our experience playing the demo, this functions like a more complex version of the Diablo: Immortal multiplayer system. The campaign is dark and non-linear, meaning that you may choose how to progress your character through the game's story. The game world features a full day/night cycle, and a weather system which breathes life into the game world!


    Scosglen
    "The untamed lands of Scosglen are as verdant as they are deadly. Those who get lost in the woods seldom return, their screams muted by spine-chilling howls. The druids who dwell here will do anything to protect their way of life, including risking the loss of their humanity to unleash the beast within."
    scosglen-scaled.jpg


    Fractured Peaks
    "Rocky, mountainous surroundings have kept most visitors away from this frozen landscape. Devout monks seeking refuge in the isolation of the Peaks find enlightenment, blissfully ignorant of the horrors lurking beneath the crags."
    fractured-peaks-scaled.jpg


    Dry Steppes
    "In the Dry Steppes, lives are worth less than water. Rugged Barbarians, ruthless mercenaries, and cannibalistic blood mages fight for survival in the harsh and unforgiving salt flats that only the most hardy–or desperate–call home."
    dry-steppes-scaled.jpg


    Hawezar
    "Poison, disease, and despair spread over this region like mold, growing and infecting everything within. Hawezar is a deadly land, even to those familiar with its tortuous–and torturous–paths. Witches intone long-forgotten curses within the swamps, and only those whop deal in death–or wish to find it–willingly come here."
    hawezar-scaled.jpg

    Kehjistan
    "Countless wars and demonic invasions have left what was once a bastion of civilizations in ruins,though evil still stirs beneath the desert sands. The people who live here used to enjoy opulence and luxuries; now they face fear and paranoia, as cultists work in the shadows to unearth ancient evils..."
    kehjistan-scaled.jpg

    World map
    https://www.diablowiki.net/World_map
    diablo-iii-sanctuary-map.jpg

    JuliusBorisovSkatan
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,164
    edited November 2019
    MrLLamaSC impressions of D4.

    For those who doesn't know, MrLLamaSC is one of the greatests(if not the greatest) D2 speedruner who owns a lot of world records.



    Around 10 minutes, he talk about how he disagrees that the idea of being able to max out all skills is a good idea.
    Around 14 minutes, he mentions a mechanic of for eg, if is raining your fire skills deal less damage and electric skills deals more damage. I personally like the idea. In Dark Souls 2, Shrine of Amana was extremely hard for me as a pyromancer but as a hexer was a cakewalk. But i understand why some people would not like this suggestion.

    Then he produces to mention the tallent tree. HE would like more branching. Not like PoE. He mentions that Last Epoch has a good in between skill like and PoE too much brenching.

    Around 18 min - HE loved the combat.

    Around 20 min - He mentions that is not a big fan of potions on cooldown, he probably prefer healing over time like myself or PoE potion system but din't specified and he mentions that he liked he hardcore mode.

    Around 24 min - He mentions the difficulty curve and talks that he prefer when Druid shapeshift is more "constant" like D2, i agree with then. He also liked that he doesn't like scaling because it kills the possibility of the player engaging harder content. Around 27 min, Oblivion is used as a example of game with awful scaling and i strongly agree.

    33 min - Starts to play as Druid. In nutshell, liked the Tornado changing the weather, and he loved the "molten boulder without the fire", he mentioned that he loved the cast time and roll time. He also mentions that he personally doesn't like cooldowns(like myself)

    37:20 - A amazing explanation to why cooldowns are bad. He mentions that he uses tons of skills in D2 despite D2 has no CDs, it changes the "is better to cast A or B"

    But agains, weather change is really cool and praises the combat

    39:35 - Flying wolf bug


    41:45 - Using boulder to push the enemy off the map. Amazing. MAp kill.

    44:00 - He uses runewords as activations. He din't liked, i personally disagree. IMO activation rules are a amazing new idea.

    50 min - HE prefer Diablo 2 inventory tetris but he liked the separed inventory system with quest item and material inventory. And he mentions that the problem with D2 charms is that they fill your inventory.

    55 min - Started Sorceress and mentions that sorceress tee looks better than Barb because offers more choices. And he thinks that trees should have more things.

    Only watched 1 hour at moment. Honestly i have work to do and will only watch the rest tomorrow.

    TL;DR - A lot of good and bad.

    He found the Sorceress very lackluster and got disappointed because the unique skill who he liked has cooldown on it. He mentions lastly on 1 hour that skills are too dependent on gear like d3 and he doesn't like it. He thinks that gear should enhance builds like d2. Not determine builds.

Sign In or Register to comment.