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Baldur's Gate III released into Early Access

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  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2020
    Completely agree with Sven. The original Baldur’s Gate games hold a very special place in my heart but I simply don’t want to see a rehash of the same thing now. Different times call for different methods and I am very much on board with Baldur’s Gate 3 being turn based and more accurately reflecting tabletop D&D.

    I really like the dice rolls that come up on persuasions.

    Obviously the game looks beautiful.

    Really liked the character models.

    I’m really looking forward to seeing how my go to Class Ranger works.

    I have seen a few people saying about how the origin stories kind of mess up creating your own character because they make you feel obliged to pick one of the origins so you get a more detailed story and at first I kind of agreed with this point then I remembered that all of those origin characters are going to appear as NPC’s so you will get to experience their stories anyway if you have them in the party. Based on that it doesn’t bother me as much as I am sure Larion will make using a blank slate character very viable.

    I’ve said it before but seeing the icons for Magic Missile and Grease come up on screen was pretty cool and a little nostalgic.

    Obviously we don’t see Baldur’s Gate in the gameplay but I can’t wait to see how it looks now. That’s gonna be something special to see the updated Baldur’s Gate many many years after the previous games and I really hope we get to spend a lot of time in the city like we did in the 1st Baldur’s Gate and explore a lot :smile:

    I think on reflection if there is one thing that I am not keen on so far it is that it looks like it may be set at 4 characters to a party. I was hoping it would be 6. It’s definitely not a deal breaker for me as I am sure that there is a reason if they can’t do 6. But it is something that disappointed me a bit.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    Look.. I know it’s not the same genre but I feel a very good example of a very similar situation is the Resident Evil Games. They have evolved over the years. Originally being fixed camera views then changing to third person from Resident evil 4 to 6 then changing to first person for 7. I feel they are a great example of a game evolving and also a very great example of a fan base being very divided. I know it’s a very different genre but it’s pretty similar in situation. And with those games I prefer the third person games. But again it all comes down to opinion. My brother swears by the original fixed camera games and says they are masterpieces in their own right and he is not wrong.. but the series has evolved and all for the better in my opinion. Sorry for bringing up a different game series all together but I feel like it’s a pretty good example of another divided fan base.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2020
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  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited March 2020
    New story details are in the article from the latest Dragon+ magazine:

    https://dnd.dragonmag.com/2020/03/02/in-the-works-baldurs-gate-iii/content.html

    “The more you use your tadpole by selecting it from the options within dialogue, the stronger the influence of your tadpole becomes. But the more you use it, the quicker you unlock your powers,” says Larian Senior Designer Edouard Imbert.

    “It’s that duality we’re introducing. It’s comparable to Bhaalspawn, which is a nice link to Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II. We want players to be wary this thing is still inside them, and the fact that they can turn into a mind flayer is still there,” warns Smith.

    To add to the chaos, a new cult known as the Absolute is on the rise. It quickly becomes clear that certain enemies you encounter within this faction also have tadpole powers, making them more interesting (and more dangerous!) opponents. Don’t be surprised when that priestess you’re facing off against suddenly uses telekinesis to drop one of the temple’s statues on you.


    TIME WAITS FOR NO MINSC
    The question every fan of the Baldur’s Gate series will be asking themselves is: will we see a few familiar faces from past games? “Fans of Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II are going to look at our game and have certain expectations. Some of those expectations we’re going to completely shatter. We’re set 100 years after Baldur’s Gate II and we are taking everything in the Forgotten Realms D&D books as canon,” Smith says, the earlier playtest confirming that Volo is in the game. “We don’t want to take away the expectation that they might meet this or that character again. But we’re not going to change timelines or do anything crazy to introduce anyone, we’re using the lore very respectfully.”
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    New story details are in the article from the latest Dragon+ magazine:

    https://dnd.dragonmag.com/2020/03/02/in-the-works-baldurs-gate-iii/content.html

    “The more you use your tadpole by selecting it from the options within dialogue, the stronger the influence of your tadpole becomes. But the more you use it, the quicker you unlock your powers,” says Larian Senior Designer Edouard Imbert.

    “It’s that duality we’re introducing. It’s comparable to Bhaalspawn, which is a nice link to Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II. We want players to be wary this thing is still inside them, and the fact that they can turn into a mind flayer is still there,” warns Smith.

    To add to the chaos, a new cult known as the Absolute is on the rise. It quickly becomes clear that certain enemies you encounter within this faction also have tadpole powers, making them more interesting (and more dangerous!) opponents. Don’t be surprised when that priestess you’re facing off against suddenly uses telekinesis to drop one of the temple’s statues on you.


    TIME WAITS FOR NO MINSC
    The question every fan of the Baldur’s Gate series will be asking themselves is: will we see a few familiar faces from past games? “Fans of Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II are going to look at our game and have certain expectations. Some of those expectations we’re going to completely shatter. We’re set 100 years after Baldur’s Gate II and we are taking everything in the Forgotten Realms D&D books as canon,” Smith says, the earlier playtest confirming that Volo is in the game. “We don’t want to take away the expectation that they might meet this or that character again. But we’re not going to change timelines or do anything crazy to introduce anyone, we’re using the lore very respectfully.”

    I sure as hell don’t hope he means the novels when he says we are taking everything in the Forgotten Realms D&D books as canon.’

    He would be really trolling the fan base if he did.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    Here we go...
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,570
    chimaera wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Then they shouldn't be marketing this as a sequel. A sequel's job is to expand on the mechanics and themes of the previous game(s). Larian is just throwing everything out.

    Why not? WotC is the franchise owner and they can decide in which direction to develop is, in this case moving from 2e to 5e. That is this expanding of mechanics you talk about. Being a fan of the saga doesn't mean you hold any copyrights to it. It's a commercial product, not public goods.

    BG is not the first game series to change mechanics. Even in series that stayed with the same developer mechanics sometimes changed greatly.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    New story details are in the article from the latest Dragon+ magazine:

    https://dnd.dragonmag.com/2020/03/02/in-the-works-baldurs-gate-iii/content.html

    “The more you use your tadpole by selecting it from the options within dialogue, the stronger the influence of your tadpole becomes. But the more you use it, the quicker you unlock your powers,” says Larian Senior Designer Edouard Imbert.

    “It’s that duality we’re introducing. It’s comparable to Bhaalspawn, which is a nice link to Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II. We want players to be wary this thing is still inside them, and the fact that they can turn into a mind flayer is still there,” warns Smith.

    To add to the chaos, a new cult known as the Absolute is on the rise. It quickly becomes clear that certain enemies you encounter within this faction also have tadpole powers, making them more interesting (and more dangerous!) opponents. Don’t be surprised when that priestess you’re facing off against suddenly uses telekinesis to drop one of the temple’s statues on you.


    TIME WAITS FOR NO MINSC
    The question every fan of the Baldur’s Gate series will be asking themselves is: will we see a few familiar faces from past games? “Fans of Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II are going to look at our game and have certain expectations. Some of those expectations we’re going to completely shatter. We’re set 100 years after Baldur’s Gate II and we are taking everything in the Forgotten Realms D&D books as canon,” Smith says, the earlier playtest confirming that Volo is in the game. “We don’t want to take away the expectation that they might meet this or that character again. But we’re not going to change timelines or do anything crazy to introduce anyone, we’re using the lore very respectfully.”
    Two things from this article. Firstly, the so-called "duality" they say they're introducing in reality is just clear incentive to play evil and not good. If you try to play your character as good, which means resisting the tadpole and not using the tadpole, you lose out big time both in your powers and abilities as well as in useful dialogue options. That's a HUGE strike against the game for me, way more than combat system and the like, because I will NEVER play an evil character in any game. Period.

    On the other hand, secondly, there is this line from the dev being interviewed in the article: "If you’re extraordinarily lucky with your dice rolls you may not fight a single time!" This is intriguing. If I can avoid every single stupid-ass TB combat encounter in some manner, then the game definitely becomes interesting. The "extraordinarily lucky" part is obviously an obstacle, but perhaps can be surmounted with a lot of save-scumming (which I'd MUCH rather do than fight through the TB combat).
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,570
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Firstly, the so-called "duality" they say they're introducing in reality is just clear incentive to play evil and not good. If you try to play your character as good, which means resisting the tadpole and not using the tadpole, you lose out big time both in your powers and abilities as well as in useful dialogue options. That's a HUGE strike against the game for me, way more than combat system and the like, because I will NEVER play an evil character in any game. Period.

    There's really no evidence for this argument, imo. You could just as easily use the tadpole powers to create a "good" outcome in a quest as much as an "evil" one.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2020
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659
    New story details are in the article from the latest Dragon+ magazine:

    https://dnd.dragonmag.com/2020/03/02/in-the-works-baldurs-gate-iii/content.html

    “The more you use your tadpole by selecting it from the options within dialogue, the stronger the influence of your tadpole becomes. But the more you use it, the quicker you unlock your powers,” says Larian Senior Designer Edouard Imbert.

    “It’s that duality we’re introducing. It’s comparable to Bhaalspawn, which is a nice link to Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II. We want players to be wary this thing is still inside them, and the fact that they can turn into a mind flayer is still there,” warns Smith.

    To add to the chaos, a new cult known as the Absolute is on the rise. It quickly becomes clear that certain enemies you encounter within this faction also have tadpole powers, making them more interesting (and more dangerous!) opponents. Don’t be surprised when that priestess you’re facing off against suddenly uses telekinesis to drop one of the temple’s statues on you.


    TIME WAITS FOR NO MINSC
    The question every fan of the Baldur’s Gate series will be asking themselves is: will we see a few familiar faces from past games? “Fans of Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II are going to look at our game and have certain expectations. Some of those expectations we’re going to completely shatter. We’re set 100 years after Baldur’s Gate II and we are taking everything in the Forgotten Realms D&D books as canon,” Smith says, the earlier playtest confirming that Volo is in the game. “We don’t want to take away the expectation that they might meet this or that character again. But we’re not going to change timelines or do anything crazy to introduce anyone, we’re using the lore very respectfully.”

    Great read. It's mostly information we already had, but it looks good. Something that hadnt occurred to me is that, based on the companions we know to be in the game so far, it *doesnt* look like Larian is going to make the hold-overs that might still be alove companions. That's good. Let them be there and tell their story, while we make our own.

    It also sounds like Larian is really leaning in on the whole "Tadpole is our bhaalspawn" concept, which I think I like. It helps to frame the game as a successor to BG1/2 by carrying over one of the most important narrative aspects: The thing that sets you apart.

    As a side note: While they've announced a handful of companions... I dont think we're supposed to believe that these are *all* the companions, right? So they could add in some new and interesting companions (good) or old characters (bad!).

    Either way, I'm excited to see.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    deltago wrote: »
    New story details are in the article from the latest Dragon+ magazine:

    https://dnd.dragonmag.com/2020/03/02/in-the-works-baldurs-gate-iii/content.html

    “The more you use your tadpole by selecting it from the options within dialogue, the stronger the influence of your tadpole becomes. But the more you use it, the quicker you unlock your powers,” says Larian Senior Designer Edouard Imbert.

    “It’s that duality we’re introducing. It’s comparable to Bhaalspawn, which is a nice link to Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II. We want players to be wary this thing is still inside them, and the fact that they can turn into a mind flayer is still there,” warns Smith.

    To add to the chaos, a new cult known as the Absolute is on the rise. It quickly becomes clear that certain enemies you encounter within this faction also have tadpole powers, making them more interesting (and more dangerous!) opponents. Don’t be surprised when that priestess you’re facing off against suddenly uses telekinesis to drop one of the temple’s statues on you.


    TIME WAITS FOR NO MINSC
    The question every fan of the Baldur’s Gate series will be asking themselves is: will we see a few familiar faces from past games? “Fans of Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II are going to look at our game and have certain expectations. Some of those expectations we’re going to completely shatter. We’re set 100 years after Baldur’s Gate II and we are taking everything in the Forgotten Realms D&D books as canon,” Smith says, the earlier playtest confirming that Volo is in the game. “We don’t want to take away the expectation that they might meet this or that character again. But we’re not going to change timelines or do anything crazy to introduce anyone, we’re using the lore very respectfully.”

    I sure as hell don’t hope he means the novels when he says we are taking everything in the Forgotten Realms D&D books as canon.’

    He would be really trolling the fan base if he did.

    if i recall jaheira dies in the ToB book, and rumor has it that she might be in this game? if so, how did she come back to life? and in the SoA novel, Minsc was not bald and had red hair, so im curious to see what he is going to look like in bg3
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Really the tadpole powers thing reminds me more of the souleater thing in Mask of the Betrayer than Bhaalspawn
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    scriver wrote: »
    Really the tadpole powers thing reminds me more of the souleater thing in Mask of the Betrayer than Bhaalspawn

    i was thinking the same thing
  • megamike15megamike15 Member Posts: 2,666
    DinoDin wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Firstly, the so-called "duality" they say they're introducing in reality is just clear incentive to play evil and not good. If you try to play your character as good, which means resisting the tadpole and not using the tadpole, you lose out big time both in your powers and abilities as well as in useful dialogue options. That's a HUGE strike against the game for me, way more than combat system and the like, because I will NEVER play an evil character in any game. Period.

    There's really no evidence for this argument, imo. You could just as easily use the tadpole powers to create a "good" outcome in a quest as much as an "evil" one.

    yeah i mean you can use the spirit eater curse for good to. just because the powers are from an evil source does not make it evil.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited March 2020
    Will have necromancy like on pnp? 5e already is not the most necro friendly edition with no OHK spells and the amount and strength of the undead creations being far more limited. Will they put one summon limit?
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    "One would be forgiven for thinking that this is simply a Divinity; Original Sin reskin, but that's not the case: according to Producer David Walgrave, about 70–80% of the Baldur's Gate 3 engine is brand-new."

    "What Improvements Are There in the Baldur's Gate 3 Engine?
    Many things from Original Sin are being carried over in this new Baldur's Gate game. As an example, the "systemics, the interactivity, and the item interaction" will be well-familiar to players of previous Larian RPGs. What new things are coming?

    "The renderer has become much more realistic," Mr. Walgrave began. "We support photogrammetry right now. There are realistic textures you can zoom in on endlessly but it’ll still look like a rock or tree or sand."

    "We want to make it realistic so you believe in the story and characters. We want their personalities to become real so the interactions and the relationships between you and your companions mean something to you."

    Companions are also serving as a big focal point for the graphical improvements coming in the Baldur's Gate 3 engine."

    https://techraptor.net/gaming/news/two-thirds-of-baldurs-gate-3-engine-is-brand-new
  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 1,325
    sarevok57 wrote: »
    scriver wrote: »
    Really the tadpole powers thing reminds me more of the souleater thing in Mask of the Betrayer than Bhaalspawn

    i was thinking the same thing

    Me too. I imagine Larian will have to balance it properly so that increased use of the tadpole's powers might mean greater access to various psionic powers, but perhaps at physical (reduced Con/Int etc.) or other intangible costs (as the tadpole grows and becomes more enmeshed in your brain, perhaps you might find yourself losing control over your actions. For instance, imagine if sometimes you want to pick a particular dialogue choice, but the tadpole disagrees and forces you to make another choice, such as attacking an NPC you wanted to spare, maybe even a companion.)
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    I wonder if becoming a Mindflayer will be an option. That would be very cool.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    chimaera wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Then they shouldn't be marketing this as a sequel. A sequel's job is to expand on the mechanics and themes of the previous game(s). Larian is just throwing everything out.

    Why not? WotC is the franchise owner and they can decide in which direction to develop is, in this case moving from 2e to 5e. That is this expanding of mechanics you talk about. Being a fan of the saga doesn't mean you hold any copyrights to it. It's a commercial product, not public goods.

    "Can" and "Should" are not the same thing. I "can" punch random people on the street in the face. I "should" not do so.
    DinoDin wrote: »
    chimaera wrote: »
    ThacoBell wrote: »

    Then they shouldn't be marketing this as a sequel. A sequel's job is to expand on the mechanics and themes of the previous game(s). Larian is just throwing everything out.

    Why not? WotC is the franchise owner and they can decide in which direction to develop is, in this case moving from 2e to 5e. That is this expanding of mechanics you talk about. Being a fan of the saga doesn't mean you hold any copyrights to it. It's a commercial product, not public goods.

    BG is not the first game series to change mechanics. Even in series that stayed with the same developer mechanics sometimes changed greatly.

    Yeah, but BG has established a pattern to its mechanics. Its not like its a new series that suddenly got its first sequel. Remeber DA:O vs. DA2? Yeah, that went over well...

    Even in series that change over each installment, like Final Fantasy, the change is gradual. Look at FF1 vs. 2, then 2 vs. 3 etc. They built on each other over time. We didn't just smash cut from FF4 to 15.
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    DinoDin wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Firstly, the so-called "duality" they say they're introducing in reality is just clear incentive to play evil and not good. If you try to play your character as good, which means resisting the tadpole and not using the tadpole, you lose out big time both in your powers and abilities as well as in useful dialogue options. That's a HUGE strike against the game for me, way more than combat system and the like, because I will NEVER play an evil character in any game. Period.

    There's really no evidence for this argument, imo. You could just as easily use the tadpole powers to create a "good" outcome in a quest as much as an "evil" one.

    No this is not true at all. The article clearly says using the tadpole powers moves you towards becoming a mindflayer yourself. So, you gain a lot by using your tadpole powers but gain nothing by not using them (other than not becoming an evil mindflayer, which is completely lame and one-sided).
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    scriver wrote: »
    You could create your own characters in D:OS2 as well, so I never thought you couldn't in BG3. The thing is that there was absolutely stupid to make your own character in D:OS2 because the game was made for playing one one of the pre-made characters. They had special plots and story integration/connection that you would lose out on if you didn't pick one of them.

    This is why I stopped playing D:OS 2 after one hour and regretted buying it (on sale, even). I absolutely hated their cast of premade characters, even as companions, much less having to *be* one of them. Hard pass.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    scriver wrote: »
    Really the tadpole powers thing reminds me more of the souleater thing in Mask of the Betrayer than Bhaalspawn

    Which is why I've never finished Mask of the Betrayer, and only ever went about a third of the way through it once before I quit.

    I refuse to play any game that tries to encourage me to be evil, or glorifies evil in any way. My fantasy is to fight evil, not be it.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    edited March 2020
    @ThacoBell I can clearly see you are running out of ways to constructively criticise when you compare the fact that the franchise owner can if they wish to chose a new direction to develop a franchise, with punching some random person in the face in the street. One of them is a perfectly reasonable and might I add legal thing to do. The other would be classed as assault and would be punishable by a date in court... and let’s be honest, no one is taking Wizards of the Coast to court over this.
  • byrne20byrne20 Member Posts: 503
    @kanisatha one might debate that a player that plays a good aligned character would find reward in taking the good path and not giving in to the tadpole. I never used the Slayer ability in Baldur’s Gate 2. I never even knew that it affected reputation until someone said so in a comment lol
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    scriver wrote: »
    You could create your own characters in D:OS2 as well, so I never thought you couldn't in BG3. The thing is that there was absolutely stupid to make your own character in D:OS2 because the game was made for playing one one of the pre-made characters. They had special plots and story integration/connection that you would lose out on if you didn't pick one of them.

    This is why I stopped playing D:OS 2 after one hour and regretted buying it (on sale, even). I absolutely hated their cast of premade characters, even as companions, much less having to *be* one of them. Hard pass.

    @BelgarathMTH Not sure you noticed when @DinoDin replied to you about that, but it's legitimate criticism and Larian will address it with BG3: https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/baldurs-gate-3-will-fix-one-of-divinity-2s-biggest-flaws-3985098
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • DinoDinDinoDin Member Posts: 1,570
    kanisatha wrote: »
    DinoDin wrote: »
    kanisatha wrote: »
    Firstly, the so-called "duality" they say they're introducing in reality is just clear incentive to play evil and not good. If you try to play your character as good, which means resisting the tadpole and not using the tadpole, you lose out big time both in your powers and abilities as well as in useful dialogue options. That's a HUGE strike against the game for me, way more than combat system and the like, because I will NEVER play an evil character in any game. Period.

    There's really no evidence for this argument, imo. You could just as easily use the tadpole powers to create a "good" outcome in a quest as much as an "evil" one.

    No this is not true at all. The article clearly says using the tadpole powers moves you towards becoming a mindflayer yourself. So, you gain a lot by using your tadpole powers but gain nothing by not using them (other than not becoming an evil mindflayer, which is completely lame and one-sided).

    Moving towards becoming a mindflayer doesn't necessarily mean that's going to be a playable state. In fact that seems quite unlikely. If anything that sounds like a game over condition.
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