As someone who only very recently got into boxing, and through footage of old fights I can find online, I'm completely lost.
Well, for starters, each round is judged by 3 separate judges. A 10-9 round simply means someone won a round. A knockdown would result in a 10-8 round, which is a much more devastating blow to come back from on the scorecards. You might occasionally see BOTH fighters get knocked down in a round, but it's exceedingly rare. These "points" are added to the fighters total if it goes to the scorecards, and if 2 out of the 3 judges have one man ahead, he wins. A KO is a knockout. A TKO is when the ref or the corner stops the fight to prevent their guy from suffering more damage.
Fights to look into are:
Ali vs. Foreman
Ali vs. Frazier
Hagler vs. Hearns
Duran vs. Leonard
Tyson vs. Douglas
Gatti vs. Ward
Pacquiao vs. Marquez
Some of these are multi-fight affairs. The first 4 especially are historically important. The fifth one of the biggest sports upsets of all-time. For pure brutal savagery, nothing can top the Gatti/Ward trilogy. And Pacquiao/Marquez is the best rivalry of the recent generation (4 fights).
I seem to be watching boxing after the fact, now. The last GGG/Canelo fight was the straw that broke the camel's back. I just can't handle all the bad decisions and injustice. I can't count how many times I shelled out $ for a robbery, or something weird happening like Tyson/Holyfield II. That said, I still like to watch old fights on Youtube, and I still read about boxing online. And, I'm sure the right fight could have me reaching for my wallet...
As for what's coming this year and beyond, while I may or may not shell out for it, I have interest in anything Loma, Crawford or Inoue are doing. We'll have to see how Spence does coming back from his accident. Beterbiev is exciting to watch as well. There are probably many others I'm missing but I just can't keep up with it these days.
Btw, welcome to the thread, ThacoBell. While this isn't the liveliest boxing forum out there, it's the only one I've seen where you can make a post and not be answered by homophobic slurs or the suggestion you were spawned from incest. The boxing 'internet' is a pretty crappy place in general, imho. This is the only boxing thread I'd ever dream of posting in, and I've enjoyed hearing the insights of others - not to mention fight recaps after big events.
I seem to be watching boxing after the fact, now. The last GGG/Canelo fight was the straw that broke the camel's back. I just can't handle all the bad decisions and injustice. I can't count how many times I shelled out $ for a robbery, or something weird happening like Tyson/Holyfield II. That said, I still like to watch old fights on Youtube, and I still read about boxing online. And, I'm sure the right fight could have me reaching for my wallet...
As for what's coming this year and beyond, while I may or may not shell out for it, I have interest in anything Loma, Crawford or Inoue are doing. We'll have to see how Spence does coming back from his accident. Beterbiev is exciting to watch as well. There are probably many others I'm missing but I just can't keep up with it these days.
Btw, welcome to the thread, ThacoBell. While this isn't the liveliest boxing forum out there, it's the only one I've seen where you can make a post and not be answered by homophobic slurs or the suggestion you were spawned from incest. The boxing 'internet' is a pretty crappy place in general, imho. This is the only boxing thread I'd ever dream of posting in, and I've enjoyed hearing the insights of others - not to mention fight recaps after big events.
@jjstraka34 I'm familiar with the first 2 for sure, and I've seen some of Hearns' stuff. When I say old, I mean OLD. Like Jack Dempsey and Willie Pep. I actually started looking into Tyson matches because of his connection to Dempsy.
We don't have cable here, so I'm not sure HOW I'd even watch a contemporary match.
I do have a question though, I've seen a lot of comments, well, everywhere complaining about how some fighters play "too safe". I don't really understand why that's bad thought though. A good defense is PARAMOUNT to any fighter. Far more important than offense. Heck, boxing is a fantastic defensive style. Its almost impossible to hit a half decent boxer from mid range.
Watching boxing is all about streaming, now. I believe ESPN+ and DAZN are the most popular platforms now, but someone correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't ordered a live fight since GGG/Canelo II). Since most fights seem to be streaming now or pay-per-view, I have no idea what the cost of an average fight is. Watching major events is an expensive endeavor. I forked out about $80 for the GGG/Canelo fights, and that price is pretty typical for a big fight. So... it's an expensive sport to watch. You can mitigate that by having a fight party and having everyone throw $10 into the pot, or you can go to a bar that's playing the fight.
My problem is I'm a recovered drunk so going to a bar is absolutely out. Ditto for hosting a fight party. So if I do want to see a fight I have to bite the bullet and shell out money. Needless to say I pick and choose which ones to watch very carefully.
As for 'playing it safe,' that can either refer to a fighter's in-the-ring style, or to career management. As for the first, I agree that they shouldn't be criticized for it. I love watching great defense. However, as every pundit and promoter keeps reminding us, boxing is a business, and extremely defensive and cautious fighters aren't perceived as exciting to watch by the masses. People want to see offensive action, so a fighter who is on the far end of the defensive scale may have a hard time getting booked for fights. Not only do promoters fear that fans won't pay to watch it, they don't want to put their cash cows in the ring with these defensive fighters and risk them losing - sometimes in embarrassing fashion.
As for playing it safe career-wise, this is the tendency of some fighters to avoid taking challenging fights. A ridiculous perception has been created in modern boxing whereby losing a fight is seen as an almost fatal career blow. A loss can (or is perceived to) lower a fighters stock, so many of the bigger names avoid risky fights as a business strategy. The trend now is to wait for other top fighters to pass their peak before fighting them. Canelo waiting for GGG to slip before fighting him is a recent example. An even more recent trend is to engage in 'events'. DAZN's preferred plans for Canelo (if they can't get a third fight with an aging GGG), involve him fighting Connor McGregor or Khabib Nurmagomedov.
@jjstraka34 I'm familiar with the first 2 for sure, and I've seen some of Hearns' stuff. When I say old, I mean OLD. Like Jack Dempsey and Willie Pep. I actually started looking into Tyson matches because of his connection to Dempsy.
We don't have cable here, so I'm not sure HOW I'd even watch a contemporary match.
I do have a question though, I've seen a lot of comments, well, everywhere complaining about how some fighters play "too safe". I don't really understand why that's bad thought though. A good defense is PARAMOUNT to any fighter. Far more important than offense. Heck, boxing is a fantastic defensive style. Its almost impossible to hit a half decent boxer from mid range.
If you're looking to watch great defensive boxers, here are some fighters whose careers are featured prominently on YT or Dailymotion:
* Floyd Mayweather Jr.
* Pernell Whitaker
* Miguel Canto
* Nicolino Locce
* Wilfred Benitez
* James Toney
* Willie Pep
* Eusebio Pedroza
* Muhammad Ali
Plus...If you're looking for classic fighters to watch, here are some all time greats that have fights on YT:
* Sugar Ray Robinson
* Henry Armstrong
* Joe Louis
* Tony Canzoneri
* Barney Ross
* Jimmy McClarnin
* Joe Gans
Basically, if you search for a list of great figters from the turn of the 20th century, or at least for the first half of the century, there's a good chance that at least some of their fights appear on YT. Technology has made it a lot easier for you to watch older fighters in their prime.
@OrlonKronsteen Ah, so I'm not watching big fights then. Highlights on youtube it is for me.
@GundanRTO Thanks! Though ironically, its the older fighters I already know about. Its the modern stuff I have no knowledge of.
As for people not fighting defensive fighters, what boxing needs is a good defensive heel. Proffesional wrestling has seen great success putting out performers that people want to see get beaten. Muhammed Ali took advantage of this somewhat with his extremely cocky attitude.
As for people not fighting defensive fighters, what boxing needs is a good defensive heel. Proffesional wrestling has seen great success putting out performers that people want to see get beaten. Muhammed Ali took advantage of this somewhat with his extremely cocky attitude.
As for people not fighting defensive fighters, what boxing needs is a good defensive heel. Proffesional wrestling has seen great success putting out performers that people want to see get beaten. Muhammed Ali took advantage of this somewhat with his extremely cocky attitude.
Floyd Mayweather did exactly the same thing.
Yes. Mayweather was a moderately successful fighter until he adapted the nickname "Money" and started openly playing a villain. By the end, he was practically a billionaire. And very few of his fights were what a casual observer would call "exciting". People were paying to see him get knocked out. His brilliance was he never let that happen, so they had to keep hoping. In fact, the only person who really laid a finger on him was Mosley in Round 2 of their fight, where Mayweather was in legitimate trouble after two hard shots. He covered up, weathered the storm, and schooled Sugar Shane like he was a sparring partner for the next 10 rounds.
My favorite fighters are the criminally underrated Pernell Whitaker (who was outright robbed in his biggest fight against De La Hoya and was never the same) and Mayweather. Because the essence of boxing is to hit and not get hit. And they did that better than anyone. It's also worth noting that Mayweather, because of his style, took no significant damage to his head in 20+ years. He isn't going to be a shell of himself at 60 from concussions.
But if you missed Mayweather's reign (even though it's all on YouTube, and a master class in how to box), there is no one to take up the mantle he and Pacquiao were carrying. Canelo can move some numbers, but he is the only current Mexican star, and despite his success, I find him unlikable and boring, and I have a bad taste in my mouth about decisions I don't think he earned against GGG.
Of course, some of Mayweather's earlier fights were exciting and violent. And he could punch like a beast. His performance against Diego Corrales was an unbelievable display, for instance. He also really let his hands go with abandon against (admittedly over-matched) Arturo Gatti. But his hands couldn't handle it so he stopped fighting that way. Add to that, moving up in weight where your ko % will diminish. And around the same time he became obsessed with the business side of it and his zero.
And yes, coming out of the sport without taking damage is amazing. And his bank account.
Canelo is definitely a symbol of what's wrong with boxing. Not only did he avoid GGG until he slipped and then benefit from corrupt judging in two fights, he's now being rewarded by inept boxing media for those decisions by being included in P4P talks. It's too bad because he used to be a gun and I think he's a really exciting fighter to watch.
Teofimo Lopez is a pretty big puncher with quick fists, so a stoppage win isn't out of the question...
...But he sometimes gets lackadaisical and waits for the perfect shot to present itself rather than create the opening. You can't do that against Loma, because he'll outwork you while maintaining a tight defense.
So, Teofimo Lopez won by UD last night-in a way I didn't quite expect.
He showed discipline to avoid making mistakes early and outbox Lomachenko, and showed heart to bite down down on his gum shield and rally in the 12th after Loma made a second half charge. Fight itself wasn't legendary or anything, but it was fun at the end and really shakes up the top echelon of the P4P rankings at the very least.
He looked good enough to make Garcia seem pretty ordinary in comparison. It wasn't anywhere near as good as the Porter fight, but that was mostly on Garcia. He wasn't throwing enough.
* Manny Pacquiao has suffered a clear loss by UD (as of yesterday) at the hands of a largely unknown but well schooled and much larger Yordeinis Ugas. Manny flashed some fast hands, but was picked apart in a lot of rounds and should probably call it a career.
* Canelo Alvarez completed a partial unification at 168lbs by breaking Billy Joe Saunders's orbital bone in front of almost 70,000 people. After much promotional wrangling, he and Caleb Plant are set to meet to complete unification at super middleweight in November.
* Deontay Wilder and Tyson Fury were scheduled to fight for a third time, but then Fury contracted Covid and the fight was pushed back to October. Anthony Joshua is scheduled to face former undisputed cruiserweight champ Oleksandr Usyk in the meantime.
* Jermell Charlo and Brian Castano had a very good contest when they attempted full unification at 154lbs. The fight was ruled a draw, and full unification at that weight class continues to elude us.
* That said, Josh Taylor did defeat Jose Ramirez to fully unify all the major belts at 140lbs. Plus, Roman Gonzalez and Juan Francisco Estrada completed partial unification at 115lbs, and the fight ruled.
It's been a bit of a frustrating year for boxing, but I think we've all seen worse.
I'll just speak to the Pacquiao fight since I watched it. Ugas solidly controlled and close to dominated the last six rounds. He was landing right-hand power shots clean every 15-20 seconds, and Manny had absolutely no answer for them. So I find the idea that he could have a competitive fight against the likes of Spence or Crawford to be pretty laughable at this point. It's time for him to hang it up. He doesn't have what it takes to compete in these fights anymore.
There have been a few fights the last decade where you can say Manny was robbed, but this wasn't one of them. If anything, Ugas deserved even better scorecards than he got. I didn't think the fight was close, and Pacquiao himself said he didn't have his legs. Which is a tell-tale sign it's over.
Usyk got the nod against Joshua. Did anyone see this fight?
Since it took place in the middle of the day while working, no. But I think this cements once and for all the fact that Joshua is just......not an impressive champion. People are now gonna lament the fact that he isn't going to get Fury, but I mean, in hindsight, what would have been the point?? If Fury dispatches Wilder again, the argument for best heavyweight of this generation is over. But a guy just made the journey from crusierwieght champ to heavyweight champ in Usyk. Historically, that now makes him miles more important than Joshua will ever be.
I've now seen about 10 minutes of it (broken up at various intervals throughout the fight), and what I saw was Usyk using slick footwork, creating angles and timing his punches impeccably. He looked to be closing in on a stoppage at the very end. It seems that no one is disputing the result. He was just the faster, better fighter. The fact that he didn't get jobbed by the judges in England is a pleasant surprise. As for Usyk's legacy - like you say, this is great. Bring on the winner of Wilder/Fury.
Usyk sometimes can start a little slowly, but he made a point of establishing the range with his lead left (he's a southpaw) and managed to wobble Joshua with a right hook in the third. Joshua came back and scored pretty well to the body in the middle rounds, but Usyk accelerated in the championship rounds to seal the deal and win the title.
Fury and Wilder are scheduled to fight on Oct 9th. Be interested to see how the winner fares against Usyk.
Instant classic, practically Rocky-esque fight between Wilder and Fury, in which Wilder again dropped Fury (twice) but couldn't take him out, fought his guts out the rest of the way, but had no gas and no chance by the end against a more skilled boxer. Fury cements himself as the best Heavyweight his this generation (for whatever that is worth, which may not be much historically) and Wilder certainly redeems himself with an incredibly gutsy performance which he may never recover from.
Instant classic, practically Rocky-esque fight between Wilder and Fury, in which Wilder again dropped Fury (twice) but couldn't take him out, fought his guts out the rest of the way, but had no gas and no chance by the end against a more skilled boxer. Fury cements himself as the best Heavyweight his this generation (for whatever that is worth, which may not be much historically) and Wilder certainly redeems himself with an incredibly gutsy performance which he may never recover from.
It was kinda sloppy, but, then again, so was Foreman-Lyle.
Wilder did well to scrape himself off the deck from the first KD and drop Fury twice in the next session. He did equally well to rally back after getting dropped for a second time and wobble Fury with a sustained flurry in the tenth. And it took a massive barrage to finally put him down for good in the 11th. Fury probably took Wilder a bit lightly after dominating him in the second fight, but did well to keep his composure and eventually grind down an ultra-determined foe.
That said, I think I favor Usyk to beat both, based on what they showed this evening.
That said, I think I favor Usyk to beat both, based on what they showed this evening.
I think I agree with that, but you just never know (there's just something about Fury that makes him hard to pick against). And in the crazy world that is boxing there's no guarantee Usyk beats Joshua in the rematch. I favour him, but I have a feeling Joshua is going to be willing to die in the sequel in the same way Wilder was last night. If he can make some effective adjustments, you never know. I'd rather see Usyk and Fury now, though. A really intriguing bout.
Comments
Well, for starters, each round is judged by 3 separate judges. A 10-9 round simply means someone won a round. A knockdown would result in a 10-8 round, which is a much more devastating blow to come back from on the scorecards. You might occasionally see BOTH fighters get knocked down in a round, but it's exceedingly rare. These "points" are added to the fighters total if it goes to the scorecards, and if 2 out of the 3 judges have one man ahead, he wins. A KO is a knockout. A TKO is when the ref or the corner stops the fight to prevent their guy from suffering more damage.
Fights to look into are:
Ali vs. Foreman
Ali vs. Frazier
Hagler vs. Hearns
Duran vs. Leonard
Tyson vs. Douglas
Gatti vs. Ward
Pacquiao vs. Marquez
Some of these are multi-fight affairs. The first 4 especially are historically important. The fifth one of the biggest sports upsets of all-time. For pure brutal savagery, nothing can top the Gatti/Ward trilogy. And Pacquiao/Marquez is the best rivalry of the recent generation (4 fights).
As for what's coming this year and beyond, while I may or may not shell out for it, I have interest in anything Loma, Crawford or Inoue are doing. We'll have to see how Spence does coming back from his accident. Beterbiev is exciting to watch as well. There are probably many others I'm missing but I just can't keep up with it these days.
Btw, welcome to the thread, ThacoBell. While this isn't the liveliest boxing forum out there, it's the only one I've seen where you can make a post and not be answered by homophobic slurs or the suggestion you were spawned from incest. The boxing 'internet' is a pretty crappy place in general, imho. This is the only boxing thread I'd ever dream of posting in, and I've enjoyed hearing the insights of others - not to mention fight recaps after big events.
Bad Left Hook is pretty good, on SB Nation.
@OrlonKronsteen Thanks!
We don't have cable here, so I'm not sure HOW I'd even watch a contemporary match.
I do have a question though, I've seen a lot of comments, well, everywhere complaining about how some fighters play "too safe". I don't really understand why that's bad thought though. A good defense is PARAMOUNT to any fighter. Far more important than offense. Heck, boxing is a fantastic defensive style. Its almost impossible to hit a half decent boxer from mid range.
My problem is I'm a recovered drunk so going to a bar is absolutely out. Ditto for hosting a fight party. So if I do want to see a fight I have to bite the bullet and shell out money. Needless to say I pick and choose which ones to watch very carefully.
As for 'playing it safe,' that can either refer to a fighter's in-the-ring style, or to career management. As for the first, I agree that they shouldn't be criticized for it. I love watching great defense. However, as every pundit and promoter keeps reminding us, boxing is a business, and extremely defensive and cautious fighters aren't perceived as exciting to watch by the masses. People want to see offensive action, so a fighter who is on the far end of the defensive scale may have a hard time getting booked for fights. Not only do promoters fear that fans won't pay to watch it, they don't want to put their cash cows in the ring with these defensive fighters and risk them losing - sometimes in embarrassing fashion.
As for playing it safe career-wise, this is the tendency of some fighters to avoid taking challenging fights. A ridiculous perception has been created in modern boxing whereby losing a fight is seen as an almost fatal career blow. A loss can (or is perceived to) lower a fighters stock, so many of the bigger names avoid risky fights as a business strategy. The trend now is to wait for other top fighters to pass their peak before fighting them. Canelo waiting for GGG to slip before fighting him is a recent example. An even more recent trend is to engage in 'events'. DAZN's preferred plans for Canelo (if they can't get a third fight with an aging GGG), involve him fighting Connor McGregor or Khabib Nurmagomedov.
If you're looking to watch great defensive boxers, here are some fighters whose careers are featured prominently on YT or Dailymotion:
* Floyd Mayweather Jr.
* Pernell Whitaker
* Miguel Canto
* Nicolino Locce
* Wilfred Benitez
* James Toney
* Willie Pep
* Eusebio Pedroza
* Muhammad Ali
Plus...If you're looking for classic fighters to watch, here are some all time greats that have fights on YT:
* Sugar Ray Robinson
* Henry Armstrong
* Joe Louis
* Tony Canzoneri
* Barney Ross
* Jimmy McClarnin
* Joe Gans
Basically, if you search for a list of great figters from the turn of the 20th century, or at least for the first half of the century, there's a good chance that at least some of their fights appear on YT. Technology has made it a lot easier for you to watch older fighters in their prime.
@GundanRTO Thanks! Though ironically, its the older fighters I already know about. Its the modern stuff I have no knowledge of.
As for people not fighting defensive fighters, what boxing needs is a good defensive heel. Proffesional wrestling has seen great success putting out performers that people want to see get beaten. Muhammed Ali took advantage of this somewhat with his extremely cocky attitude.
Floyd Mayweather did exactly the same thing.
Yes. Mayweather was a moderately successful fighter until he adapted the nickname "Money" and started openly playing a villain. By the end, he was practically a billionaire. And very few of his fights were what a casual observer would call "exciting". People were paying to see him get knocked out. His brilliance was he never let that happen, so they had to keep hoping. In fact, the only person who really laid a finger on him was Mosley in Round 2 of their fight, where Mayweather was in legitimate trouble after two hard shots. He covered up, weathered the storm, and schooled Sugar Shane like he was a sparring partner for the next 10 rounds.
My favorite fighters are the criminally underrated Pernell Whitaker (who was outright robbed in his biggest fight against De La Hoya and was never the same) and Mayweather. Because the essence of boxing is to hit and not get hit. And they did that better than anyone. It's also worth noting that Mayweather, because of his style, took no significant damage to his head in 20+ years. He isn't going to be a shell of himself at 60 from concussions.
But if you missed Mayweather's reign (even though it's all on YouTube, and a master class in how to box), there is no one to take up the mantle he and Pacquiao were carrying. Canelo can move some numbers, but he is the only current Mexican star, and despite his success, I find him unlikable and boring, and I have a bad taste in my mouth about decisions I don't think he earned against GGG.
And yes, coming out of the sport without taking damage is amazing. And his bank account.
Canelo is definitely a symbol of what's wrong with boxing. Not only did he avoid GGG until he slipped and then benefit from corrupt judging in two fights, he's now being rewarded by inept boxing media for those decisions by being included in P4P talks. It's too bad because he used to be a gun and I think he's a really exciting fighter to watch.
Teofimo Lopez is a pretty big puncher with quick fists, so a stoppage win isn't out of the question...
...But he sometimes gets lackadaisical and waits for the perfect shot to present itself rather than create the opening. You can't do that against Loma, because he'll outwork you while maintaining a tight defense.
Should be fun, regardless of the zult.
He showed discipline to avoid making mistakes early and outbox Lomachenko, and showed heart to bite down down on his gum shield and rally in the 12th after Loma made a second half charge. Fight itself wasn't legendary or anything, but it was fun at the end and really shakes up the top echelon of the P4P rankings at the very least.
He looked good enough to make Garcia seem pretty ordinary in comparison. It wasn't anywhere near as good as the Porter fight, but that was mostly on Garcia. He wasn't throwing enough.
Since the start of the year...
* Manny Pacquiao has suffered a clear loss by UD (as of yesterday) at the hands of a largely unknown but well schooled and much larger Yordeinis Ugas. Manny flashed some fast hands, but was picked apart in a lot of rounds and should probably call it a career.
* Canelo Alvarez completed a partial unification at 168lbs by breaking Billy Joe Saunders's orbital bone in front of almost 70,000 people. After much promotional wrangling, he and Caleb Plant are set to meet to complete unification at super middleweight in November.
* Deontay Wilder and Tyson Fury were scheduled to fight for a third time, but then Fury contracted Covid and the fight was pushed back to October. Anthony Joshua is scheduled to face former undisputed cruiserweight champ Oleksandr Usyk in the meantime.
* Jermell Charlo and Brian Castano had a very good contest when they attempted full unification at 154lbs. The fight was ruled a draw, and full unification at that weight class continues to elude us.
* That said, Josh Taylor did defeat Jose Ramirez to fully unify all the major belts at 140lbs. Plus, Roman Gonzalez and Juan Francisco Estrada completed partial unification at 115lbs, and the fight ruled.
It's been a bit of a frustrating year for boxing, but I think we've all seen worse.
There have been a few fights the last decade where you can say Manny was robbed, but this wasn't one of them. If anything, Ugas deserved even better scorecards than he got. I didn't think the fight was close, and Pacquiao himself said he didn't have his legs. Which is a tell-tale sign it's over.
Since it took place in the middle of the day while working, no. But I think this cements once and for all the fact that Joshua is just......not an impressive champion. People are now gonna lament the fact that he isn't going to get Fury, but I mean, in hindsight, what would have been the point?? If Fury dispatches Wilder again, the argument for best heavyweight of this generation is over. But a guy just made the journey from crusierwieght champ to heavyweight champ in Usyk. Historically, that now makes him miles more important than Joshua will ever be.
Usyk sometimes can start a little slowly, but he made a point of establishing the range with his lead left (he's a southpaw) and managed to wobble Joshua with a right hook in the third. Joshua came back and scored pretty well to the body in the middle rounds, but Usyk accelerated in the championship rounds to seal the deal and win the title.
Fury and Wilder are scheduled to fight on Oct 9th. Be interested to see how the winner fares against Usyk.
It was kinda sloppy, but, then again, so was Foreman-Lyle.
Wilder did well to scrape himself off the deck from the first KD and drop Fury twice in the next session. He did equally well to rally back after getting dropped for a second time and wobble Fury with a sustained flurry in the tenth. And it took a massive barrage to finally put him down for good in the 11th. Fury probably took Wilder a bit lightly after dominating him in the second fight, but did well to keep his composure and eventually grind down an ultra-determined foe.
That said, I think I favor Usyk to beat both, based on what they showed this evening.
I think I agree with that, but you just never know (there's just something about Fury that makes him hard to pick against). And in the crazy world that is boxing there's no guarantee Usyk beats Joshua in the rematch. I favour him, but I have a feeling Joshua is going to be willing to die in the sequel in the same way Wilder was last night. If he can make some effective adjustments, you never know. I'd rather see Usyk and Fury now, though. A really intriguing bout.