Shag - Viconia (why you no liek gurlz? silly sexy evil drow ladies...) Marry - Rasaad Kill - Dorn...it's actually sort of a bad habit of mine. He's just...right there, waiting for magic missile related smiting (and then my sorceress being dragged off to prison for said smiting. Still worth it).
It would be like, Eldoth, Anomen, Dorn: shag, marry, kill?
Shag: Anomen Marry: Eldoth Kill: reluctantly Dorn; in a perfect world, it would be killhave as wingman: Dorn
How is that list repulsive or awful?
I don't think straight males can pick Hexxat. She's no romance option for them, unless they are rapists or think they can "cure" lesbians with their mighty phallus*. There are enough straight female romances for straight male players, there's no need to fill in non-romancable NPCs or mismatched orientations. It's a pretty easy way out to say "kill: Hexxat (haha, she wouldn't want to shag or marry me anyway, nothing lost) and because she's an evil undead vampire".
* I'm fairly certain it would work on Eldoth, if enough coin finds a way into his pocket
I've never found Eldoth to be anything but awesome.
Exactly. Mechanically, he's a huge investment - he desperately needs the dex gauntlets to make use of his main weapon (I strongly assume he's meant to be the evil counterpart to Coran, why else would a bard have the ability to create arrows, if not to point at the long bow prof?) that are usually by default Kagain's or Dorn's in an evil party; he needs the Elven Chain and therefore requires you to do Dorn's quest if you like it or not, and also profits most from the con tome by maxing his HP potential.
But from the personality, he's one of the best NPCs in BG1. He represents neutral evil and the bard class perfectly. More than Garrick - bards are, at least to me, cunning and manipulatuve. Garrick is the opposite of that. I also don't understand how Eldoth is "sticky" or "slimy". He's condecending and arrogant and openly belittles people, not sucking up to them.
Shag: Viconia... she's pretty open about her seductive nature. Though her character is deeper than what she shows, she's the most obvious one-night-stand.
Marry: Jaheira; one of my 3 favorite NPCs in the entire saga, so naturally I would pick her for this option, mostly because she has the most growth in her character.
Kill: Dorn every time. In any non-evil party I tell him to blow-off in the first dialogue with him in BG2... which leads him to attacking my party... well if he wanted an assisted suicide then he found the right group of adventurers. Not so tough when the people you're trying to kill can actually fight back, huh Dorn?
Exactly. Mechanically, he's a huge investment - he desperately needs the dex gauntlets to make use of his main weapon (I strongly assume he's meant to be the evil counterpart to Coran, why else would a bard have the ability to create arrows, if not to point at the long bow prof?) that are usually by default Kagain's or Dorn's in an evil party; he needs the Elven Chain and therefore requires you to do Dorn's quest if you like it or not, and also profits most from the con tome by maxing his HP potential.
But from the personality, he's one of the best NPCs in BG1. He represents neutral evil and the bard class perfectly. More than Garrick - bards are, at least to me, cunning and manipulatuve. Garrick is the opposite of that. I also don't understand how Eldoth is "sticky" or "slimy". He's condecending and arrogant and openly belittles people, not sucking up to them.
He definitely is slimy, yes. The moment he meets you, he butters you up with drink and song before making his proposal, and he's obviously portrayed as a typical rogue skilled in the 'art' of seduction, yes somewhat like an even less savory version of Coran. He might not suck up to people all the time, but when he wants something he'll be flatter and manipulate you. It's just that once he has what he wants he's no longer interested in you.
If you're meaning slimy as in a true sycophant or toady, then no I suppose it's not. But he is smooth and manipulative. Plus, he does have very viscous sweat.
Take as Mrann D'ssiniss: Dorn Il-Khan. While others might cringe from ss'inissrigg with one of orcish lineage, I hold no such compunction - and he does have the sort of musculature that makes a woman swoon with desire. I might name Sarevok as second choice, and yet for all his intriguing size and resolution in battle he shrank from the pleasures only I might have shown him. A great pity.
Submit to Matrimony: Haer'Dalis. If I must be leashed to another, one with little regard for the custom or ownership suits my taste greatly. I once entertained notions of an advantageous marriage in Baldur's Gate or Athkatla to provide some measure of protection, if not acceptance - yet I discovered I'd no wish to be trussed up in some decrepit mansion by the dockside or forced to linger in the cold halls of a governmental manor to escape the hateful stares of the rivvin. A protracted dalliance with a planeswalker who flings himself into danger at any given opportunity would suit me far better.
Lead into the Grave's Embrace: Keldorn Firecam. I never sought a conflict with any of the Radiant Heart, much less a rare one capable enough to survive into an elderly existence. In some ways, I appreciated the heavy, burning stare I often found creeping to the back of my neck. A danger clear enough to remind one to keep up their guard, and yet one that wouldn't manifest itself subtly enough for constant peril. Such ceaseless vigil, the tired old jaluk told me, was due to my embrace of a coven for the morose and pathetic. Though I had a certain respect for the paladin and regret the loss of what might have been between us had his mind proven a little less rigid, better to remove such a hound before he turns his bite to you.
I'd shag Jaheira (wouldn't feel right marrying her since she was the wife of my bro Kalid). Marry Viconia: Turn her good and keep her away from poisoned assassins and I would be a happy man. Kill: Aerie, as quick and painless as possible so her gods can grant her a good afterlife. Or Neera if she keeps anooying me as much as she does...
Anomen I would give to Dorn and then I would make Dorn wear the Girlde of Sex Change and then see if Anomen would like to return the favour.
Exactly. Mechanically, he's a huge investment - he desperately needs the dex gauntlets to make use of his main weapon (I strongly assume he's meant to be the evil counterpart to Coran, why else would a bard have the ability to create arrows, if not to point at the long bow prof?) that are usually by default Kagain's or Dorn's in an evil party; he needs the Elven Chain and therefore requires you to do Dorn's quest if you like it or not, and also profits most from the con tome by maxing his HP potential.
But from the personality, he's one of the best NPCs in BG1. He represents neutral evil and the bard class perfectly. More than Garrick - bards are, at least to me, cunning and manipulatuve. Garrick is the opposite of that. I also don't understand how Eldoth is "sticky" or "slimy". He's condecending and arrogant and openly belittles people, not sucking up to them.
He definitely is slimy, yes. The moment he meets you, he butters you up with drink and song before making his proposal, and he's obviously portrayed as a typical rogue skilled in the 'art' of seduction, yes somewhat like an even less savory version of Coran. He might not suck up to people all the time, but when he wants something he'll be flatter and manipulate you. It's just that once he has what he wants he's no longer interested in you.
Well, I rather get to know a potential companion over wine than just team up with a total stranger. He may tell his story a bit different than it actually happened, but from the evil NPCs, he's one of the most open ones and does tell me something about his past. (For contrast, see NE rogue Montaron, who threatens you if you ask about his past). I see nothing wrong with this approach. Eldoth is looking for people to help with his plan, Charname is doing the same. Makes sense they'd sit down and talk to evaluate the other. It's also not true that he ditches charname as soon as he gets what he wants. Skie is loyal to him, he wouldn't need charname or the party to keep her in line or do the blackmailing, but sticks around. For him, there's no real advantage in fighting Sarevok. He could easily retire from adventuring, blackmail the duke for easy money (not even has to "work" with Skie not wanting to go back; he doesn't have to lock her up and watch that she doesn't escape) and call it a day. For Garrick, there would be the point of getting a big adventure to sing about from fighting Sarevok, but Eldoth isn't a honorable bard and has no problem with just making up epic tales of his heroic deeds. Or possibly taking the same lazy route as the guy you meet in the Hall of Wonders and "buy" tales from adventurers.
You could also say Coran flatters you so you'll go hunt wyverns with him. He will share the reward, but then, so does Eldoth. He informs you when and where to pick up the money, not sneak away to have it all to himself. Comes out as the same. Even Shar-Teel flatters you initially after you defeat her, to then move on and complain about men (of which you need one to get her) every step of the way. Safana flatters you big time to get your help. It's less common that NPCs don't flatter you in some way when they join.
Why are so many straight males using Dorn or Anomen as their kill? You're supposed to kill someone you actually have to think about- someone you could potentinally be interested in. That's the whole point of the game. (Either that, or everyone is so repulsive and you have to marry and shag people who are awful. It would be like, Eldoth, Anomen, Dorn: shag, marry, kill?)
Ah but it's not the only group to disregard the "rules" seeing as it goes
You choose among the romance interests in the Baldur's Gate Trilogy
Most of the companions are in fact not "romance interests". And none of the BG1-exclusive ones are. That leaves few choices, so we should be mad at Boo for not allowing all the companions rather than just a handful of them
Well, I rather get to know a potential companion over wine than just team up with a total stranger. He may tell his story a bit different than it actually happened, but from the evil NPCs, he's one of the most open ones and does tell me something about his past. (For contrast, see NE rogue Montaron, who threatens you if you ask about his past). I see nothing wrong with this approach. Eldoth is looking for people to help with his plan, Charname is doing the same. Makes sense they'd sit down and talk to evaluate the other. It's also not true that he ditches charname as soon as he gets what he wants. Skie is loyal to him, he wouldn't need charname or the party to keep her in line or do the blackmailing, but sticks around. For him, there's no real advantage in fighting Sarevok. He could easily retire from adventuring, blackmail the duke for easy money (not even has to "work" with Skie not wanting to go back; he doesn't have to lock her up and watch that she doesn't escape) and call it a day. For Garrick, there would be the point of getting a big adventure to sing about from fighting Sarevok, but Eldoth isn't a honorable bard and has no problem with just making up epic tales of his heroic deeds. Or possibly taking the same lazy route as the guy you meet in the Hall of Wonders and "buy" tales from adventurers.
You could also say Coran flatters you so you'll go hunt wyverns with him. He will share the reward, but then, so does Eldoth. He informs you when and where to pick up the money, not sneak away to have it all to himself. Comes out as the same. Even Shar-Teel flatters you initially after you defeat her, to then move on and complain about men (of which you need one to get her) every step of the way. Safana flatters you big time to get your help. It's less common that NPCs don't flatter you in some way when they join.
Obviously, since they want to join or get your help. Although I didn't say he did ditch you, he certainly would if he thought there would be a worthwhile reward for doing so. As it is, your enemies would probably kill him as well and you're useful to provide protection for him, such as from the people Duke Silvershield will inevitably send; he knows what nobles are like. He'd ditch Skie as well, but for now she provides something useful to him; she's just too naive and foolish to see what a creep he really is. But yes, he's basically the male version of Safana. Skilled at lying and convincing people, but ultimately he's only ever loyal to himself.
I have a legit excuse to break the rules of "only actual romance options". Being asexual and only romantically interested in guys, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me to remain platonic. I don't see any of the NPCs opposed to a "bromance", since they'd gain the favor of a powerful bhaalspawn, yet wouldn't have to compromise their own sexual preferences. (Hence why I also changed "shag" to "share bed/room" - I wouldn't mind if they decided to take it further, but I wouldn't initiate nor miss anything if they didn't. So yeah, for once my minority orientation pays out and grants me free choice. YAY?)
@Coutelier: So you're saying Eldoth doesn't do anything different by complimenting you to gain your/the party's help? Then how does it make him "slimy" or a "creep", but not the others? He sticks with the party, just like everyone else - I'd argue that people like Nalia or Kagain have own goals other than the bhaalspawn's business and only stick with the party as long as it is convenient. There are very few NPCs who have no own interests/goals whatsoever, yet they all join and stick around because for the time being, it suits them; no difference here. And "only loyal to himself" is the core of Neutral Evil - that's exactly my point, Eldoth is the poster boy for that alignment and this attitude is why I say he's well written.
I'd shag Eldoth. He is the most "my type" in all of BG1.
I just wish he were available sooner than the Cloakwood, weren't tied to Skie, or didn't make Bentley shut down on you, and that he was in BG2. If he were just a bit more fleshed out, and in BG2, then I'd have a hard time *not* having him in all my playthroughs.
@Coutelier: So you're saying Eldoth doesn't do anything different by complimenting you to gain your/the party's help? Then how does it make him "slimy" or a "creep", but not the others? He sticks with the party, just like everyone else - I'd argue that people like Nalia or Kagain have own goals other than the bhaalspawn's business and only stick with the party as long as it is convenient. There are very few NPCs who have no own interests/goals whatsoever, yet they all join and stick around because for the time being, it suits them; no difference here. And "only loyal to himself" is the core of Neutral Evil - that's exactly my point, Eldoth is the poster boy for that alignment and this attitude is why I say he's well written.
I'm sure he is well written; a well written creep. There's a big difference between him and most the others; he doesn't care at all for the people he uses. Skie, for example, is obviously just a tool to him and he doesn't care at all if his actions hurt her in any way. So long as he gets what he wants, that's all that matters.
I'd shag Eldoth. He is the most "my type" in all of BG1.
I just wish he were available sooner than the Cloakwood, weren't tied to Skie, or didn't make Bentley shut down on you, and that he was in BG2. If he were just a bit more fleshed out, and in BG2, then I'd have a hard time *not* having him in all my playthroughs.
I'm absolutely with you on this. He's the closest to my rl type. Haer'Dalis is too flamboyant for my taste, but Eldoth has the right amount of... a certain arrogance/snark and is sassy without being sissy.
It would be consequent if there was an option to maybe follow through with his blackmail plan and then actually have him ditch Skie once she served her purpose - mostly for mechanical reasons. Skie isn't a bad thief, but she's very late game and they make a rogue/rouge pair. The others have more diversity in their use - Monty and Jaheira are multiclass, Minsc and Khalid can both frontline or go ranged, Dynaheir and Xzar can both dual (though, Dynaheir isn't easily dualed - it's still an option and for the "canon party" not such a bad choice to have an actual cleric). Eldoth and Skie both can't dual and are mostly static in their roles (Eldoth can frontline, but certainly not on his own). Then, being in BG2 would fit his backstory perfectly. He already skipped town once (that is mentioned in his bio) after the money well of a rich guy's daughter became too risky. He'd naturally look for a new place to hide - Atkathla is a big city of merchants and trade, and involved in a guild war that distracts the law enforcement enough for a single bard to get by and fly under the radar. Plus, of course, BG2 could use a real bard and evil NPCs, especially a ranged one.
Eldoth being a creep... I still don't see it, sorry. He's neutral evil and a real bard, that's it. Not more or less a creep than any other evil NPC who is out for himself (and I'd say that trait isn't limited to evil, some of the neutral NPCs fall in that category, too) and not more or less than the typical bard. He's just bardier than Garrick and Haer'Dalis. And so are Coran and Safana, even without being bards.
Eldoth being a creep... I still don't see it, sorry. He's neutral evil and a real bard, that's it. Not more or less a creep than any other evil NPC who is out for himself (and I'd say that trait isn't limited to evil, some of the neutral NPCs fall in that category, too) and not more or less than the typical bard. He's just bardier than Garrick and Haer'Dalis. And so are Coran and Safana, even without being bards.
I don't see how anyone can't see it; he's a manipulative, abusive, user of people. Yes, other characters may be that as well, or may share other vague and/or superficial things in common. But he just is written as a sleazy, swarmy, little git, with really nothing redeemable about him at all.
Eldoth is disrespectful to woman, has a possessive relationship with Skie and a blackmailer. That's pretty sleazy. Other characters are evil too, but his relationship with Skie and the blackmail makes him fit the "sleazy" tag.
I think the difference you guys are having is between "evil" and "sleazy/slimy". Eldoth may be just as evil as Edwin or Shar-Teel, but he's sleazy on top of it.
Let's put it this way, if you were casting in a movie: Jason Isaacs or Alan Rickman would play the evil characters James Woods or Colin Farrell would play the sleazy characters
Other than Shar-Teel and occasionally Branwen, my parties are mostly male. Shar-Teel and Eldoth don't get along, that much is clear. Branwen and Eldoth? He compliments her, she thanks him, that's it. (One of the rare combos where an evil NPC uses his compliment lines, btw.) With Skie... come on, it doesn't take a sleazebag to be annoyed by her. Eldoth knows her longer than the party, and I can see why he would be out of patience. I don't feel he disrespects the party/charname; he is just happy to travel with us refined gentlemen. (Props to Garrick as neutral for frequently insulting Dynaheir though; I rarely hear the neutrals use insults, too.)
And nothing redeemable? He shares his blackmail money with charname; that alone can be good enough for some (Kagain, for instance). He values intellect and his scheme is non-violent; both things Edwin agrees with. Needless to point out, his scheme actually works. It's not a megalomanic plan that blows up in your face, proving he does have a good sense for risk/gain situations.
For the record, I also think Skie is written very well and she'd be my go-to thief if she wasn't late game (and non-relocatable through mods). She is meant to be an annoying, naive brat with a grating voice who complains about everything. Charname may agree with Eldoth here, but I as the player actually don't find her annoying. With the adventurer thief script, you minimize the clicks on her and hence hear her complain about everything less. It's simple mechanics - you click on thieves (and casters) way more than fighters, so the lines trigger more often and get stale sooner.
Eldoth is the blackmail/cowardly kind of villain. Like the guy from The Dark Knight who tries to expose Bruce Wayne as Batman for money. He likes getting the maximum benefit for the least work, and has no compunctions. The "used car salesman" type of villain. Yet he also seems to believe in "Honor Among Thieves"... he's an affable asshole.
Xzar is the "not quite together" mad scientist kind of villain. Like earlier Lex Luthor depictions, or someone like Frankenstein. He's puts the "mad" in mad scientist.
Tiax is an even crazier (less talented/intelligent) version of this. The Oh Em Geez, Evil is Fun!!!! type villain, like Arcade from the X-Men.
Edwin is the "put together" mad scientist kind of villain. The ones who would be successful were it not for their megalomania/arrogance. Like a sassy version of Dr. Doom or later Lex Luthor depictions. They are power-hungry and greedy, have the intellect to succeed, but can't overcome their overinflated egos.
Montaron is the "I'm only in it for myself" kind of villain. The asshole who only looks out for number one. He's like a mercenary/assassin who does not make friends, especially with fellow villains (like Xzar).
Kagain is the Gordon Gecko type "evil". I put it in parentheses since he doesn't really act evil (due to his quest being cut) but you can gather that he's willing to exploit people for money.
Eldoth being a creep... I still don't see it, sorry. He's neutral evil and a real bard, that's it. Not more or less a creep than any other evil NPC who is out for himself (and I'd say that trait isn't limited to evil, some of the neutral NPCs fall in that category, too) and not more or less than the typical bard. He's just bardier than Garrick and Haer'Dalis. And so are Coran and Safana, even without being bards.
All the evil NPCs are creeps in some way or another, even the more amusing ones.
I think Eldoth just bothers people more because he's a portrayed as an emotionally abusive misogynist. The way he uses cruelty and emotional manipulation to make Skie feel worthless and to keep her under his thumb (to quote: "Be silent Skie! It's not like your opinion is worth anything...") are classic characteristics of an abusive boyfriend, which is almost never an admirable, sympathetic, or even amusing, archetype in modern fiction.
Most men I know want to punch him in the face because that's how modern western society has programmed them to react. As a woman, he makes my skin crawl so intensely that it's like he's walking around with a neon sign over his head that reads "Danger! Bad man! Avoid! Avoid! Avoid!"
Now then! On topic:
Canon Love Interests
Shag: Anomen - He needs way too much therapy before he's ready for a long term relationship, but he's good-looking enough and is physically fit, which puts him firmly in the "sure, I'd hit that" category.
Marry: Rasaad - Sure, he needs some therapy too, but not as much and he seems like he's be a pretty reliable partner.
Kill: Dorn - He's not just evil, but full-on, mustache-twirling, capital-"e" Evil.
BG1 NPCs
Shag: Ajantis - I find that he's a little too strident for my tastes to make a good life partner, but as with Anomen he's seriously "doable".
Marry: Khalid - He's nice, he's congenial, he has a proven track record with marriage. The only problem is what to do with Jaheira (a plural marriage?)
Kill: Eldoth - See above - tl;dr dude's a total creeper. Seriously.
BG2 NPCs (other than canon love interests)
Shag: Yoshimo - He's pleasant and easy to get along with. Plus, stat wise he has a 17 Str, 18 Dex and 16 Con - a total of 3 points off from the human maximum. Obviously, there are serious problems in the way of a long-term relationship, but in the short term he has very promising potential (in bed).
Marry: Valygar - Needs some work, but he's a nice enough guy. Also, see above re: stats. He has the same physical stats as Yoshimo, which points toward good times (in bed!) once he works though his issues with physical intimacy (one word Valygar - vasectomy). The only place he's really lacking is in terms of his Int and Wi
Kill: Edwin - Sorry, Edwin fans, I can't stand the guy.
Eldoth is the blackmail/cowardly kind of villain. Like the guy from The Dark Knight who tries to expose Bruce Wayne as Batman for money. He likes getting the maximum benefit for the least work, and has no compunctions. The "used car salesman" type of villain. Yet he also seems to believe in "Honor Among Thieves"... he's an affable asshole.
Oh, the mention of Eldoth as a Used Car Salesman, how, genius! Why have you used DC comics super heroes and villains to compare? Wait! I have something! IT IS A BOAR EATING A SHOE!!
Eldoth at least does keep his promise to Skie. It's not like she is actually kidnapped, she goes by free will and happily so. He also doesn't ditch her - in fact, he leaves with her if you do, despite having learned that charname's adventures are quite profitable and despite being out on his own when Skie's father sends his mercenaries after them. Sure, he doesn't treat her well, but like I mentioned above - he is nice enough to Branwen (and presumably other female NPCs). Based on that, he may really just be fed up with Skie personally and not women in general. His banter lines are all about people he finds stupid, not specifically women. I'm not so sure a guy like Kivan would happily tolerate Skie's complaints long term either.
And then we have Shar-Teel, whose banter lines are clearly and openly insulting men in general. Men are pathetic, men stink; according to Shar-Teel. She also follows through with that by trying (and due to their classes and stats by default succeeding) to kill Eldoth. Yet I see no outrage; she's generally a popular NPC - even without having a "hot" portrait - and considered "interesting". Now, I can certainly see that - I have my own backstory pieced together from the little information the game offers about her and it's one of my favorite pieces of head canon. I also like her in my parties and she'd be among my top choices for "NPCs I wish were in BG2". But... she is way more hateful toward men than Eldoth toward (one) women and there is a double standard here that her behavior and attitude is "awesome, entertaining, interesting" and Eldoth is a "slimy creep". What gives her the pass and not him? Misguided attempt to be a "feminist"? Headcanon that she had "bad experiences with men"? Maybe Eldoth had "bad experiences with women", too. What gives?
You know where you stand with Shar-Teel. Her blind hatred of all men is a bit dumb, but at least she's up front and honest about it; you really can't accuse her of being sly or deceitful in any way. Eldoth is just more cunning and silver-tongued. But he lies to Skie; he doesn't care about her at all and only wants her fathers money and otherwise she's just a toy for his amusement. It's hinted in his bio that he has a history of treating women like this. Hopefully Branwen and any other female he may be nice to are wise enough not to fall for him.
So it is "better" to be openly sexist than at least not telling people to their face that you think they are pathetic based on their sex alone...? Is brutal honesty (pun, haha) really preferable to "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all"? Branwen thanks him for the compliment and that's it - and his compliment isn't creepy to me. He says he would like to get to know her over a nice dinner and wine. Nothing wrong with that, if a bit delusional that he'll find a place to have a nice dinner when travelling with charname.
And if Branwen (and other NPCs) don't "fall" for that... All the better, more for me.
Comments
Marry - Rasaad
Kill - Dorn...it's actually sort of a bad habit of mine. He's just...right there, waiting for magic missile related smiting (and then my sorceress being dragged off to prison for said smiting. Still worth it).
Marry: Eldoth
Kill: reluctantly Dorn; in a perfect world, it would be kill have as wingman: Dorn
How is that list repulsive or awful?
I don't think straight males can pick Hexxat. She's no romance option for them, unless they are rapists or think they can "cure" lesbians with their mighty phallus*. There are enough straight female romances for straight male players, there's no need to fill in non-romancable NPCs or mismatched orientations. It's a pretty easy way out to say "kill: Hexxat (haha, she wouldn't want to shag or marry me anyway, nothing lost) and because she's an evil undead vampire".
* I'm fairly certain it would work on Eldoth, if enough coin finds a way into his pocket
But from the personality, he's one of the best NPCs in BG1. He represents neutral evil and the bard class perfectly. More than Garrick - bards are, at least to me, cunning and manipulatuve. Garrick is the opposite of that. I also don't understand how Eldoth is "sticky" or "slimy". He's condecending and arrogant and openly belittles people, not sucking up to them.
Marry: Jaheira; one of my 3 favorite NPCs in the entire saga, so naturally I would pick her for this option, mostly because she has the most growth in her character.
Kill: Dorn every time. In any non-evil party I tell him to blow-off in the first dialogue with him in BG2... which leads him to attacking my party... well if he wanted an assisted suicide then he found the right group of adventurers. Not so tough when the people you're trying to kill can actually fight back, huh Dorn?
Submit to Matrimony: Haer'Dalis. If I must be leashed to another, one with little regard for the custom or ownership suits my taste greatly. I once entertained notions of an advantageous marriage in Baldur's Gate or Athkatla to provide some measure of protection, if not acceptance - yet I discovered I'd no wish to be trussed up in some decrepit mansion by the dockside or forced to linger in the cold halls of a governmental manor to escape the hateful stares of the rivvin. A protracted dalliance with a planeswalker who flings himself into danger at any given opportunity would suit me far better.
Lead into the Grave's Embrace: Keldorn Firecam. I never sought a conflict with any of the Radiant Heart, much less a rare one capable enough to survive into an elderly existence. In some ways, I appreciated the heavy, burning stare I often found creeping to the back of my neck. A danger clear enough to remind one to keep up their guard, and yet one that wouldn't manifest itself subtly enough for constant peril. Such ceaseless vigil, the tired old jaluk told me, was due to my embrace of a coven for the morose and pathetic. Though I had a certain respect for the paladin and regret the loss of what might have been between us had his mind proven a little less rigid, better to remove such a hound before he turns his bite to you.
Marry Viconia: Turn her good and keep her away from poisoned assassins and I would be a happy man.
Kill: Aerie, as quick and painless as possible so her gods can grant her a good afterlife. Or Neera if she keeps anooying me as much as she does...
Anomen I would give to Dorn and then I would make Dorn wear the Girlde of Sex Change and then see if Anomen would like to return the favour.
It's also not true that he ditches charname as soon as he gets what he wants. Skie is loyal to him, he wouldn't need charname or the party to keep her in line or do the blackmailing, but sticks around. For him, there's no real advantage in fighting Sarevok. He could easily retire from adventuring, blackmail the duke for easy money (not even has to "work" with Skie not wanting to go back; he doesn't have to lock her up and watch that she doesn't escape) and call it a day. For Garrick, there would be the point of getting a big adventure to sing about from fighting Sarevok, but Eldoth isn't a honorable bard and has no problem with just making up epic tales of his heroic deeds. Or possibly taking the same lazy route as the guy you meet in the Hall of Wonders and "buy" tales from adventurers.
You could also say Coran flatters you so you'll go hunt wyverns with him. He will share the reward, but then, so does Eldoth. He informs you when and where to pick up the money, not sneak away to have it all to himself. Comes out as the same. Even Shar-Teel flatters you initially after you defeat her, to then move on and complain about men (of which you need one to get her) every step of the way. Safana flatters you big time to get your help. It's less common that NPCs don't flatter you in some way when they join.
@Coutelier: So you're saying Eldoth doesn't do anything different by complimenting you to gain your/the party's help? Then how does it make him "slimy" or a "creep", but not the others? He sticks with the party, just like everyone else - I'd argue that people like Nalia or Kagain have own goals other than the bhaalspawn's business and only stick with the party as long as it is convenient. There are very few NPCs who have no own interests/goals whatsoever, yet they all join and stick around because for the time being, it suits them; no difference here. And "only loyal to himself" is the core of Neutral Evil - that's exactly my point, Eldoth is the poster boy for that alignment and this attitude is why I say he's well written.
speling iz hart 2day
I just wish he were available sooner than the Cloakwood, weren't tied to Skie, or didn't make Bentley shut down on you, and that he was in BG2. If he were just a bit more fleshed out, and in BG2, then I'd have a hard time *not* having him in all my playthroughs.
It would be consequent if there was an option to maybe follow through with his blackmail plan and then actually have him ditch Skie once she served her purpose - mostly for mechanical reasons. Skie isn't a bad thief, but she's very late game and they make a rogue/rouge pair. The others have more diversity in their use - Monty and Jaheira are multiclass, Minsc and Khalid can both frontline or go ranged, Dynaheir and Xzar can both dual (though, Dynaheir isn't easily dualed - it's still an option and for the "canon party" not such a bad choice to have an actual cleric). Eldoth and Skie both can't dual and are mostly static in their roles (Eldoth can frontline, but certainly not on his own).
Then, being in BG2 would fit his backstory perfectly. He already skipped town once (that is mentioned in his bio) after the money well of a rich guy's daughter became too risky. He'd naturally look for a new place to hide - Atkathla is a big city of merchants and trade, and involved in a guild war that distracts the law enforcement enough for a single bard to get by and fly under the radar. Plus, of course, BG2 could use a real bard and evil NPCs, especially a ranged one.
Eldoth being a creep... I still don't see it, sorry. He's neutral evil and a real bard, that's it. Not more or less a creep than any other evil NPC who is out for himself (and I'd say that trait isn't limited to evil, some of the neutral NPCs fall in that category, too) and not more or less than the typical bard. He's just bardier than Garrick and Haer'Dalis. And so are Coran and Safana, even without being bards.
I think the difference you guys are having is between "evil" and "sleazy/slimy". Eldoth may be just as evil as Edwin or Shar-Teel, but he's sleazy on top of it.
Let's put it this way, if you were casting in a movie:
Jason Isaacs or Alan Rickman would play the evil characters
James Woods or Colin Farrell would play the sleazy characters
And nothing redeemable? He shares his blackmail money with charname; that alone can be good enough for some (Kagain, for instance). He values intellect and his scheme is non-violent; both things Edwin agrees with. Needless to point out, his scheme actually works. It's not a megalomanic plan that blows up in your face, proving he does have a good sense for risk/gain situations.
For the record, I also think Skie is written very well and she'd be my go-to thief if she wasn't late game (and non-relocatable through mods). She is meant to be an annoying, naive brat with a grating voice who complains about everything. Charname may agree with Eldoth here, but I as the player actually don't find her annoying. With the adventurer thief script, you minimize the clicks on her and hence hear her complain about everything less. It's simple mechanics - you click on thieves (and casters) way more than fighters, so the lines trigger more often and get stale sooner.
Eldoth is the blackmail/cowardly kind of villain. Like the guy from The Dark Knight who tries to expose Bruce Wayne as Batman for money. He likes getting the maximum benefit for the least work, and has no compunctions. The "used car salesman" type of villain. Yet he also seems to believe in "Honor Among Thieves"... he's an affable asshole.
Xzar is the "not quite together" mad scientist kind of villain. Like earlier Lex Luthor depictions, or someone like Frankenstein. He's puts the "mad" in mad scientist.
Tiax is an even crazier (less talented/intelligent) version of this. The Oh Em Geez, Evil is Fun!!!! type villain, like Arcade from the X-Men.
Edwin is the "put together" mad scientist kind of villain. The ones who would be successful were it not for their megalomania/arrogance. Like a sassy version of Dr. Doom or later Lex Luthor depictions. They are power-hungry and greedy, have the intellect to succeed, but can't overcome their overinflated egos.
Montaron is the "I'm only in it for myself" kind of villain. The asshole who only looks out for number one. He's like a mercenary/assassin who does not make friends, especially with fellow villains (like Xzar).
Kagain is the Gordon Gecko type "evil". I put it in parentheses since he doesn't really act evil (due to his quest being cut) but you can gather that he's willing to exploit people for money.
I think Eldoth just bothers people more because he's a portrayed as an emotionally abusive misogynist. The way he uses cruelty and emotional manipulation to make Skie feel worthless and to keep her under his thumb (to quote: "Be silent Skie! It's not like your opinion is worth anything...") are classic characteristics of an abusive boyfriend, which is almost never an admirable, sympathetic, or even amusing, archetype in modern fiction.
Most men I know want to punch him in the face because that's how modern western society has programmed them to react. As a woman, he makes my skin crawl so intensely that it's like he's walking around with a neon sign over his head that reads "Danger! Bad man! Avoid! Avoid! Avoid!"
Now then! On topic:
Canon Love Interests
Shag: Anomen - He needs way too much therapy before he's ready for a long term relationship, but he's good-looking enough and is physically fit, which puts him firmly in the "sure, I'd hit that" category.
Marry: Rasaad - Sure, he needs some therapy too, but not as much and he seems like he's be a pretty reliable partner.
Kill: Dorn - He's not just evil, but full-on, mustache-twirling, capital-"e" Evil.
BG1 NPCs
Shag: Ajantis - I find that he's a little too strident for my tastes to make a good life partner, but as with Anomen he's seriously "doable".
Marry: Khalid - He's nice, he's congenial, he has a proven track record with marriage. The only problem is what to do with Jaheira (a plural marriage?)
Kill: Eldoth - See above - tl;dr dude's a total creeper. Seriously.
BG2 NPCs (other than canon love interests)
Shag: Yoshimo - He's pleasant and easy to get along with. Plus, stat wise he has a 17 Str, 18 Dex and 16 Con - a total of 3 points off from the human maximum. Obviously, there are serious problems in the way of a long-term relationship, but in the short term he has very promising potential (in bed).
Marry: Valygar - Needs some work, but he's a nice enough guy. Also, see above re: stats. He has the same physical stats as Yoshimo, which points toward good times (in bed!) once he works though his issues with physical intimacy (one word Valygar - vasectomy). The only place he's really lacking is in terms of his Int and Wi
Kill: Edwin - Sorry, Edwin fans, I can't stand the guy.
-Blue
Why have you used DC comics super heroes and villains to compare?
Wait! I have something! IT IS A BOAR EATING A SHOE!!
And then we have Shar-Teel, whose banter lines are clearly and openly insulting men in general. Men are pathetic, men stink; according to Shar-Teel. She also follows through with that by trying (and due to their classes and stats by default succeeding) to kill Eldoth. Yet I see no outrage; she's generally a popular NPC - even without having a "hot" portrait - and considered "interesting". Now, I can certainly see that - I have my own backstory pieced together from the little information the game offers about her and it's one of my favorite pieces of head canon. I also like her in my parties and she'd be among my top choices for "NPCs I wish were in BG2". But... she is way more hateful toward men than Eldoth toward (one) women and there is a double standard here that her behavior and attitude is "awesome, entertaining, interesting" and Eldoth is a "slimy creep". What gives her the pass and not him? Misguided attempt to be a "feminist"? Headcanon that she had "bad experiences with men"? Maybe Eldoth had "bad experiences with women", too. What gives?
And if Branwen (and other NPCs) don't "fall" for that... All the better, more for me.