I find it hilarious that Valve (granted, they're a huge company) can churn out two patches per week every week pretty much for Dota2, yet we can't get a freaking patch after 6 months, when it's badly needed as well, don't care about new content, just want the game to be functional. And i don't care about the money either, would have gladly paid a lot more for a flawless product; it's absolutely ridiculous that they remade BG series, yet the old modded one is much more stable and functional than this supposed enhanced version.
I feel like I'm visiting some Blizzard forums. Formerly I've thought of people of this forum as a reasonable, patient, supportive and creative guys. Formerly, that is. Now, all they can do is complain. Darwin wouldn't be pleased by this.
@AlexDeLarge, you are right, they are a large company (reportedly (according to the internet) having over 300 employees, and the financial resources to hire hundreds more if necessary). Beamdog is a small company with approximately 20 employees. I don't want to be 'that person,' but can we refrain from comparing apples to oranges? At the very least, pick a development studio with a similar number of employees. TaleWorlds with its ~40 employees would be a slightly better comparison, which is double that of Beamdog, and even so Bannerlords seems like it might be ready around 2015 or 2016 and patches for their other games are crawling along. I keep going to their blog, reading each entry, then I wonder if it will ever arrive. I would assume it is the same feeling for those awaiting this patch. Needless to say, I have confidence that both will arrive.
Okay, then how about a comparison with the Starbound team - 11 people who typically push about one patch per week? Even when they hit a slow current they do about one per month. Granted, their game is much smaller in the codebase and they don't need to push each update to 5 platforms, so some delay in comparison on the part of Beamdog is quite understandable. However, taking six months for bugfixes is not.
I feel like I'm visiting some Blizzard forums. Formerly I've thought of people of this forum as a reasonable, patient, supportive and creative guys. Formerly, that is. Now, all they can do is complain. Darwin wouldn't be pleased by this.
As @killerrabbit pointed it out, we who take the time to criticize do so because we care about the game. It's not us you should be concerned about but those who no longer care enough to log in here, because the success of Beamdog's next project (be it BG-related or not) depends on how many of us they can manage to keep interested in their endeavors.
@ZelgadisGW: Interesting comparison, since Blizzard have only themselves to blame for the state of their forums (Error 37 and the resulting Auction House nonsense is certainly still fresh in everyone's minds). Communities don't go sour on a whim - if Beamdog's has gone the same route, it's because they've consistently failed (and are still failing) to do right by their customers. That's how you get from reasonable, patient, supportive and creative to constant complaints.
@shawne Congratulations with pointing out two points, in which one was already invalid 2 years ago, and the second is invalid since months.
I am waiting for something ever since BG:EE was released, and despite being impatient I do a good job on this. But you guys cannot endure 6 months. How I should interpret this?
I feel like I'm visiting some Blizzard forums. Formerly I've thought of people of this forum as a reasonable, patient, supportive and creative guys. Formerly, that is. Now, all they can do is complain. Darwin wouldn't be pleased by this.
I really don't feel like attacking the people making the complaints (by suggesting they are unreasonable, impatient, unsupportive, etc) is going to make this thread any better. These complaints at least provided Dee and other people at beamdog with customer feedback, even if it is negative feedback.
Also considering that the counter here hasn't been updated in a long time I think people are well within their right to complain (how were/are people to know where they should be testing without at least some idea of what still needs to be tested like we got in previous testing phases). Anyways, not really knowing how far along a future BG2EE patch is probably isn't helping either.
thats right.... all i want is to give me/us more infos about the work on the patch... if the work on the patch take more time is secundär but the infos for the guys pay money for a broken game is primär. If in the future they want people buy more games from beamdog this is important.
@Adul, you have a point; but as you also noted, there is a lot more to juggle.
Furthermore, six months is not exactly acceptable, but neither is making 10,000+ people on Android wait over a year for a release while PC, Mac, and iOS get released and patched. Saying that they should work on those platforms that are already released only goes so far when the promise of the Android version is put on an indefinite hold; as angry as the Android fans were due to the wait, they would have been even less pleased had Beamdog followed the advice of those on previously released platforms. In that particular instance, that crossroads, one platform user base or the other was obviously going to be displeased by the wait; Android users if Android was further sidelined while Windows, Mac, and iOS get patched, or Windows, Mac, and iOS if the Android version is worked on.
They now have to balance them all, but if they can harmonise the builds to some degree then it should make everything that much quicker (and more consistent with regards to multiplayer).
It could be an instance of biting off more than they can chew, but they have proven that they can deliver—albeit not as timely as people would like—the Android release is proof of this.
Lies and manipulation are treated with disdain universally by certain types of people. Flopping from one excuse to the next is not something you want in any one individual or company. It's clear where the Black Isle talent went, and it wasn't here. Trying to suck as much blood as you can from a 15 year old franchise with no appreciation for the fans is disheartening but not surprising. All you have to do is look at previous threads to see the writing on the wall years ago.
@Adul, you have a point; but as you also noted, there is a lot more to juggle.
Furthermore, six months is not exactly acceptable, but neither is making 10,000+ people on Android wait over a year for a release while PC, Mac, and iOS get released and patched. Saying that they should work on those platforms that are already released only goes so far when the promise of the Android version is put on an indefinite hold; as angry as the Android fans were due to the wait, they would have been even less pleased had Beamdog followed the advice of those on previously released platforms. In that particular instance, that crossroads, one platform user base or the other was obviously going to be displeased by the wait; Android users if Android was further sidelined while Windows, Mac, and iOS get patched, or Windows, Mac, and iOS if the Android version is worked on.
They now have to balance them all, but if they can harmonise the builds to some degree then it should make everything that much quicker (and more consistent with regards to multiplayer).
It could be an instance of biting off more than they can chew, but they have proven that they can deliver—albeit not as timely as people would like—the Android release is proof of this.
Sorry but where does this notion that either android users are put on indefinite hold or people get some degree of patch support come from? There have been patches available for both games for months now, they've just been labelled as beta patches. From the looks of things I last got a BG2EE patch sometime in April (and I know there was one in late december as well and possibly one in february). If they have time to update the betas, even though (as far as I'm aware) there is no formal system in place at the moment to discuss the BG2EE beta, then why couldn't they update the regular version (even just the Beamdog version) at any point in the last 6 months?
As someone who played the originals back in the day, this bug/feature annoys me tremendously, although I'd understand if it's not too high on your list of priorities.
@elminster, it stems from the fact that they only have a small team. It should be obvious as it is not exclusive to software development, but when you split your resources things tend slow down across the board. If you don't want things to slow down (as per people wanting their patch), something then needs to be put on hold. Otherwise, both need to wait (Android work taking well over a year and the PC, Mac, and iOS patch taking months). In this case, it looks like they're splitting their resources and so everyone needs to wait.
Dee has already said that there are a number of issues they are ironing out, from those very beta patches that you are referring to. I know of at least one issue that I reported in the last phase; a crash to desktop, no less. I cannot even remember if that has been fixed yet. If it hasn't, then what's the point of updating the actual retail version when a newly implemented bug is present? In my opinion, that would be even sillier on their part. Those items were likely also in the Android version and so time is spent making sure it is ready for release. The last BG:EE public beta update was the 10th of April, a day before the original post in this topic was updated and nine days after it was created. Several days after the 10th another bug was found. Like I said, it is sillier on their part to leave publicly known new bugs untouched when releasing a new version.
One of the very points of contention is that the last version (1.2.0000) included new bugs. If people want Beamdog to learn from their mistakes (as I keep seeing people saying that they should), then those new bugs need to be ironed out before release. There's little point in demanding that someone learn from a past mistake, then turn and demand that they commit to that very same mistake again.
As someone who played the originals back in the day, this bug/feature annoys me tremendously, although I'd understand if it's not too high on your list of priorities.
Yes, Dee confirmed more than once, that this issue is fixxed in the new patch 1.3. I am very pleased about it. :-)
@ZelgadisGW: Fixating on the "validity" of the incidents rather than the fact that they, you know, happened seems to me to be missing the point. If Blizzard's community turned against them, it's because Blizzard made mistakes, refused to address those mistakes for a considerable amount of time, and consistently chose courses of actions that were not in the best interests of their player base. The fact that these problems were eventually resolved doesn't really change anything in that regard, especially since they never demonstrated that they'd learned from past missteps.
@Troodon80: Here's the thing, though - your comparison doesn't take into account that the non-Android players had already bought the game. I'm sure it was incredibly frustrating for Android users to be put on hold for as long as they were, but making that platform a priority also meant that people who paid a total of $45 for both EEs were (and still are) stuck with major bugs as a result.
@elminster, it stems from the fact that they only have a small team. It should be obvious as it is not exclusive to software development, but when you split your resources things tend slow down across the board. If you don't want things to slow down (as per people wanting their patch), something then needs to be put on hold. Otherwise, both need to wait (Android work taking well over a year and the PC, Mac, and iOS patch taking months). In this case, it looks like they're splitting their resources and so everyone needs to wait.
Dee has already said that there are a number of issues they are ironing out, from those very beta patches that you are referring to. I know of at least one issue that I reported in the last phase; a crash to desktop, no less. I cannot even remember if that has been fixed yet. If it hasn't, then what's the point of updating the actual retail version when a newly implemented bug is present? In my opinion, that would be even sillier on their part. Those items were likely also in the Android version and so time is spent making sure it is ready for release. The last BG:EE public beta update was the 10th of April, a day before the original post in this topic was updated and nine days after it was created. Several days after the 10th another bug was found. Like I said, it is sillier on their part to leave publicly known new bugs untouched when releasing a new version.
One of the very points of contention is that the last version (1.2.0000) included new bugs. If people want Beamdog to learn from their mistakes (as I keep seeing people saying that they should), then those new bugs need to be ironed out before release. There's little point in demanding that someone learn from a past mistake, then turn and demand that they commit to that very same mistake again.
BGEE really isn't the issue. BGEE 1.2 works fairly well in its present state (all things considered anyways). BG2EE is really the issue here.
For the specific bugs you listed (which all seem to be BGEE related but could have also been present in BG2EE).
The default voice doesn't work in BG2EE, either in the non-beta release or in the beta release. It works in the character creation screen but not in-game (at least not from what I could tell).
There is a container bug but its not quite the one that is present in BGEE's beta (locked containers in an area don't always highlight green unless you scroll over one of them with the mouse). Either way its present in both the non-beta release and the beta release.
I wasn't able to replicate the crashing bug with BG2EE's beta (I did not try with the non-beta).
Is the BG2EE beta in perfect condition? Heck no. As far as I'm concerned however it would still be worth releasing as a regular patch for all the bug fixes they've completed for BG2EE in the last 6 months.
Well, as someone who plays BG:EE on both PC and Android, I can say that I have been much more looking forward to BG2:EE multiplayer working smoothly on my computer than to the Android release of BG1. I mean, I'm glad the game got released to Android, but BG2:EE for PC had been released first and as of now it's still in pretty poor condition. I didn't like that the much needed BG2 bug-stomping was seemingly put on hold while Beamdog churned out the Android game (and now a BG1 patch that doesn't seem very urgent in comparison).
So im finalized BG EE in german strings, so im hopefully to BG 2 EE on this next patch 1.3 with the another languages. Thank you for watching this posting and goin´ to answering.
Edit: This Patch MUST going out, BEFORE Football World Cup in Brasilia has begun. *i´m not Gandalf*
Ok, I've just about had my FILL of patch asking, patch assigning, insult throwing, pun hurling, hostage taking, iron mongering, smart arsed fools, freaks, and felons that continually test my will, mettle, strength, intelligence, and most of all, patience!
Ok, I've just about had my FILL of patch asking, patch assigning, insult throwing, pun hurling, hostage taking, iron mongering, smart arsed fools, freaks, and felons that continually test my will, mettle, strength, intelligence, and most of all, patience!
So they'll basically withhold the 1.3 patch for BG2:EE until the Android version is released. Which is exactly what they did with BG:EE.
I just... I give up. I don't know what to say anymore. I supported this project, I wanted Beamdog to succeed, but the prospect of being strung along for another six months before being able to actually play this goddamn game is ridiculous, and all the devs have to offer in response are platitudes.
Comments
As @killerrabbit pointed it out, we who take the time to criticize do so because we care about the game. It's not us you should be concerned about but those who no longer care enough to log in here, because the success of Beamdog's next project (be it BG-related or not) depends on how many of us they can manage to keep interested in their endeavors.
I am waiting for something ever since BG:EE was released, and despite being impatient I do a good job on this. But you guys cannot endure 6 months. How I should interpret this?
Also considering that the counter here hasn't been updated in a long time I think people are well within their right to complain (how were/are people to know where they should be testing without at least some idea of what still needs to be tested like we got in previous testing phases). Anyways, not really knowing how far along a future BG2EE patch is probably isn't helping either.
Furthermore, six months is not exactly acceptable, but neither is making 10,000+ people on Android wait over a year for a release while PC, Mac, and iOS get released and patched. Saying that they should work on those platforms that are already released only goes so far when the promise of the Android version is put on an indefinite hold; as angry as the Android fans were due to the wait, they would have been even less pleased had Beamdog followed the advice of those on previously released platforms. In that particular instance, that crossroads, one platform user base or the other was obviously going to be displeased by the wait; Android users if Android was further sidelined while Windows, Mac, and iOS get patched, or Windows, Mac, and iOS if the Android version is worked on.
They now have to balance them all, but if they can harmonise the builds to some degree then it should make everything that much quicker (and more consistent with regards to multiplayer).
It could be an instance of biting off more than they can chew, but they have proven that they can deliver—albeit not as timely as people would like—the Android release is proof of this.
Secondly, I would like to know if work is being done to fix the issue discussed in this thread: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/385281/#Comment_385281
As someone who played the originals back in the day, this bug/feature annoys me tremendously, although I'd understand if it's not too high on your list of priorities.
Dee has already said that there are a number of issues they are ironing out, from those very beta patches that you are referring to. I know of at least one issue that I reported in the last phase; a crash to desktop, no less. I cannot even remember if that has been fixed yet. If it hasn't, then what's the point of updating the actual retail version when a newly implemented bug is present? In my opinion, that would be even sillier on their part. Those items were likely also in the Android version and so time is spent making sure it is ready for release. The last BG:EE public beta update was the 10th of April, a day before the original post in this topic was updated and nine days after it was created. Several days after the 10th another bug was found. Like I said, it is sillier on their part to leave publicly known new bugs untouched when releasing a new version.
One of the very points of contention is that the last version (1.2.0000) included new bugs. If people want Beamdog to learn from their mistakes (as I keep seeing people saying that they should), then those new bugs need to be ironed out before release. There's little point in demanding that someone learn from a past mistake, then turn and demand that they commit to that very same mistake again.
@Troodon80: Here's the thing, though - your comparison doesn't take into account that the non-Android players had already bought the game. I'm sure it was incredibly frustrating for Android users to be put on hold for as long as they were, but making that platform a priority also meant that people who paid a total of $45 for both EEs were (and still are) stuck with major bugs as a result.
For the specific bugs you listed (which all seem to be BGEE related but could have also been present in BG2EE).
The default voice doesn't work in BG2EE, either in the non-beta release or in the beta release. It works in the character creation screen but not in-game (at least not from what I could tell).
There is a container bug but its not quite the one that is present in BGEE's beta (locked containers in an area don't always highlight green unless you scroll over one of them with the mouse). Either way its present in both the non-beta release and the beta release.
I wasn't able to replicate the crashing bug with BG2EE's beta (I did not try with the non-beta).
Is the BG2EE beta in perfect condition? Heck no. As far as I'm concerned however it would still be worth releasing as a regular patch for all the bug fixes they've completed for BG2EE in the last 6 months.
wait what
Edit: This Patch MUST going out, BEFORE Football World Cup in Brasilia has begun. *i´m not Gandalf*
What do you people say about this one, huh? :P
Sorry for off-topic
The first word about "when" in terms of the Android version of BG2:EE
I just... I give up. I don't know what to say anymore. I supported this project, I wanted Beamdog to succeed, but the prospect of being strung along for another six months before being able to actually play this goddamn game is ridiculous, and all the devs have to offer in response are platitudes.
I'm done.