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Best IWD party setup

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  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    What about an all multiclass party?
  • TEMNOZORANTEMNOZORAN Member Posts: 54
    all multi class is possible,
    for all slow leveling we need to wait the experience/difficulty update ,

    or switch difficulty to core rule before finishing a quest for a lesser quest XP reward

  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    edited February 2015
    My current playthrough had a party not created for being "the best", and while being very enjoyable characters I have experienced nuisance with some of my choices (wrong choice of thief skills on two characters among other things). In my next playthrough I was thinking of creating a rather strong melee oriented party (I usually play with 6 ranged, 2 of which go melee after contact) whilst still being able to do and try pretty much everything. Input needed, 4 vs 5 or 6 man party:

    1: Thief/Swashie (thanks @Elrandir, had forgot to write that) or bountyhunter-> Fighter
    Ideas: Just enough to do traps and locks. Will not be used for BS, but may become the scout nonetheless, but will do that with invisibility spell. Was planning on using primarily xbow and a supporting melee weapon of some kind. Possible staff or dagger.
    Questions:
    1 What do you think of my weapon choices? There are plenty of awesome xbows in the game from early on.
    2 Is dispel illusions worth leveing before I dual to fighter? Should I perhaps not dual to fighter and instead go for something else (based on the rest of the gang, maybe mage)?
    3 What items do you know of that grant +% to locks and traps which can enable me to dual sooner from thief?
    4 Bounty hunter vs Swashie?

    2: Fighter/berzerker -> Cleric
    Ideas: standard zerker/cleric. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in flails and pips in slings.
    Questions:
    1 "Berzeric"/"Berzercleric" vs pure cleric kit. I like fighter for the 18:9X strength bonus though, but halforcs get 19 of course.

    3: Fighter/zerker -> Druid
    Ideas: standard zerker/druid. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in scimitars and pips in slings.
    Questions:
    1 same as above, dual or kit? Possibly avenger. Same as above with the strength, but druid has less races available though.

    4: Fighter/zerker -> Mage
    Ideas: standard zerker/mage. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in long swords and pips in bows as well as the extra attacks.
    Questions:
    None. May be switched to a F/M instead of F->M, not sure. Will be elf in that case.

    5: ?? Bard or Skald
    Ideas, pure singer and supporting buffer. Probably vanilla bard, but I am unsure if the skald or sith-song is the best. I am prolly aiming for the AC and HP regen for easier dungeon crawling. Will most likely be the face of the party if I go for this char.

    6: ?? Last one I'm not sure. I love C/M's, sorc's and archers. Either one would do well, but none of them is really needed, so maybe none of the above?
    Question: Another thought is to even go as far as to also exclude the bard and do this as a four man party, but then I will be weak in arcane (I love to have two of each; divine and arcane). But as said above, can be countered by dualing the thief to mage instead of fighter (or go F/M/T, but I'm not a fan of that class and don't want to use it).

    Game is planned to be on insane level. Possible modded down to exclude the EXP boost. No other mods planned for now.

    Cheers,
    //Skatan
    Post edited by Skatan on
  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,664
    @Skatan Unless you're using kits, it will pretty much always be superior to use multis instead of duals. (at least on a convenience level) Longer to level, but no downtime. Sure you can get GM with a thief dualed to a fighter, but you can hit level 30/30 with a multi, allowing for excellent skill growth with both classes.

    If you're wanting to use crossbows with the thief, I would suggest going the fighter route and not the mage route. You'll want the heavy crossbows. Using a thief/mage or thief>mage will lock you into light crossbows.

    As for detect illusions, you could theoretically do a thief 29>fighter 30. Sure it'll be a long downtime, but you'll basically be doing a multi but with even greater weapon proficiency.

    I don't dual, so I don't entirely understand what transfers from one class to the other, but if you're not going to use your thief>fighter for BS, then go with a swashbuckler>fighter. The extra two or three -AC, combined with the two or three extra -THAC0 and +damage will be nice to have on a fighter, and you'll only be losing out on BS.

    Anyway, those're all the tips I have. Take 'em or leave 'em. Just some ideas. I don't really have any comments on the rest of the team.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    Elrandir said:

    @Skatan Unless you're using kits, it will pretty much always be superior to use multis instead of duals. (at least on a convenience level) Longer to level, but no downtime. Sure you can get GM with a thief dualed to a fighter, but you can hit level 30/30 with a multi, allowing for excellent skill growth with both classes.

    I doubt I will reach 30/30 on a single playthrough. I do not intend to run through over and over again just to level the party.
    Elrandir said:


    If you're wanting to use crossbows with the thief, I would suggest going the fighter route and not the mage route. You'll want the heavy crossbows. Using a thief/mage or thief>mage will lock you into light crossbows.

    That's true, most good xbows I've found are heavy.
    Elrandir said:


    As for detect illusions, you could theoretically do a thief 29>fighter 30. Sure it'll be a long downtime, but you'll basically be doing a multi but with even greater weapon proficiency.

    Naah, my question is about what is the EARLIEST I can dual. The point in this is that because the thief will not be doing any hide/BS, then going past a certain level in thief class gains nothing to the overall performance of the char. A multiclass thief will continue to gain thief-levels which will be "wasted" on the intended use of the char. By dualing early I think the downtime can be kept to a minimum. I can hold on leveling until the char has enough to surpass his thief level and do them all at once.
    Elrandir said:


    I don't dual, so I don't entirely understand what transfers from one class to the other, but if you're not going to use your thief>fighter for BS, then go with a swashbuckler>fighter. The extra two or three -AC, combined with the two or three extra -THAC0 and +damage will be nice to have on a fighter, and you'll only be losing out on BS.

    Thanks! Swashie is the obvious choice, however, a bountyhunter could be used as well, though the lower points per level affects the level for dualling.

    Thanks for taking the time to read and answer @elrandir

  • reivisionreivision Member Posts: 21
    edited February 2015
    Note: I have not completed the game nor gotten to high levels (past 12 or so) in any IE game yet, so I guess you can take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

    First off, I'm not sure you want that many dual classes. Yes, you get GM for all your Fighter duals, but the eventual trade-off compared to multiclass Fighters is something like 0.5APR, +3 damage, and -3 speed factor (assuming Dual between 7 and 12). That's it.

    Multiclass Fighters eventually get a second APR and THAC0 of 0, so they will actually have better base THAC0 and are missing out only on the differences between Specialization (**) and GM (*****): 1 more APR, +2 THAC0, +3 damage, and -3 speed factor. Usually Fighter duals happen at 7 or 9 anyway, so duals only get 0.5 APR from their Fighter levels and not the full 1 APR which occurs at 13.

    Multiclass also opens up better racial options than Human. Half-Orc Strength and Constitution bonuses are of course great for any frontliner, as are shorty bonuses to saves.

    Multiclass also lets you gain more experience, as you can hit 30 for every class in your multiclass characters while dual classes are limited to the amount of experience it takes to hit 30 in their first class (I believe, not sure if this has been fixed yet). So dual classes (depending on when you dual) may not even have enough experience under the cap to hit x/30.
    Skatan said:

    Game is planned to be on insane level. Possible modded down to exclude the EXP boost. No other mods planned for now.

    That much dual class will be less painful if you play with Insane experience gain. I played a dual Berserker (7) > Cleric on Insane and the dual was pretty painless. I was able to dual at level 1 of Dragon's Eye and got my Fighter levels back and GM in Flails/Morningstars at level 8 Cleric on Dragon's Eye level 3. That's a lot of downtime though you're looking at if you go 0% bonus experience, especially with the later duals you're planning. Could be fun I suppose to play with a bunch of concurrent duals, but that's really up to you.

    Finally, your planned duals leave you without any renewable source of healing until level 9 for your Cleric and Druid duals or 11 if you go vanilla Bard. This could be an issue. Depends on how much gold you want to spend on heals or if you don't mind resting for days at a time.

    All right, specific characters:
    Skatan said:

    1: Thief/Swashie (thanks @Elrandir, had forgot to write that) or bountyhunter-> Fighter
    Ideas: Just enough to do traps and locks. Will not be used for BS, but may become the scout nonetheless, but will do that with invisibility spell. Was planning on using primarily xbow and a supporting melee weapon of some kind. Possible staff or dagger.
    Questions:
    1 What do you think of my weapon choices? There are plenty of awesome xbows in the game from early on.
    2 Is dispel illusions worth leveing before I dual to fighter? Should I perhaps not dual to fighter and instead go for something else (based on the rest of the gang, maybe mage)?
    3 What items do you know of that grant +% to locks and traps which can enable me to dual sooner from thief?
    4 Bounty hunter vs Swashie?

    Dualing from Swash is kind of a mixed bag, as you generally want to hit 5 or 10 for the extra +1 hit/damage and AC, but on the other hand it gets full Thieving points so it's great for a dual if you want to max out necessary thieving skills and dual ASAP to minimize the Thief-less downtime in your party. Level 5 should be a good target and give you enough points to hit 100 in both Locks and Traps. I'd probably advise against Bounty Hunter for a Dual if it's your only Thief in the party given the penalty to thieving points per level.

    Itemwise you can pick up the Girdle of Gond in Kuldahar from Orrick I think: +10 Locks, +5 Traps. I don't know if Detect Illusion is worth delaying a dual, but I doubt it for IWD.

    I almost always try to throw in some kind of Fighter class with my Thieves, as without the THAC0 boost they can fall off, and (more importantly) Thieves or Thief/other class duals/multis are locked to base 1 APR, which hurts in an optimized party.

    My personal favorites for thieving duties in IWD are Half-Orc F/T (19 Str for a more melee/backstab focus) or Elf F/M/T (for 19 Dex, +1 THAC0 with swords/longbows, and arcane support). I would go Gnome Ill/T if I wanted a Mage/Thief dual/multi.

    Or you could go Swash > Mage, which is basically a Mage that can do locks/traps. Swash bonuses don't really make up for being locked to 1 APR IMO, so I'd consider a Swash > Mage a Mage with slightly better stats and utility rather than a real frontline combatant.
    Skatan said:

    2: Fighter/berzerker -> Cleric
    Ideas: standard zerker/cleric. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in flails and pips in slings.
    Questions:
    1 "Berzeric"/"Berzercleric" vs pure cleric kit. I like fighter for the 18:9X strength bonus though, but halforcs get 19 of course.

    I think Berserker/Cleric or F/C multi is the way to go. Getting those extra APR are very good when combined with all the great self-buffs of Clerics. 18/xx Strength scores from the start are nice too. I've been trying single class Clerics to try out the kits, but for an optimized party a Fighter multi or dual is definitely the way to go.

    I don't think going to 9 is necessarily worth it. You get a few extra HP, an improvement in saves which will be overwritten by your better eventual Cleric saves anyway, an extra use of Enrage/day (from 2 to 3, which is IMO not really that big), and one more proficiency pip.

    I prefer dualing at 7 since that gets you your 0.5 Fighter APR and finishes the dual downtime faster. You also get GM earlier since Cleric gets their third set of pips at level 8, which you can use to finish off your GM (and then you can actually use it, rather than a level 9 dual where you get your GM then immediately lose it to your dual classing). The only real tradeoff is 2 Fighter HD vs. 2 Cleric HD for levels 8 and 9. Big whoop.
    Skatan said:

    3: Fighter/zerker -> Druid
    Ideas: standard zerker/druid. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in scimitars and pips in slings.
    Questions:
    1 same as above, dual or kit? Possibly avenger. Same as above with the strength, but druid has less races available though.

    You have to be a Half-Elf with some stupidly high stats to dual class. I've rolled a Berserker>Druid and am currently playing a Kensai>Druid, but IMO it's probably not worth dualing to Druid overall. A Druid dual needs 15 Str, 17 Wis, and 17 Cha. You need to roll in the mid-90s to get a fully optimized character with max Str, Dex, Con, Wis.

    Multi can kind of hurt because of the huge jump from Druid 14>15, so it's pick your poison I guess.

    I usually run with a Druid kit these days since they're more fun/viable than Cleric kits IMO and that way I have divine healing from level 1 (opening up a Fighter > Cleric dual as a more palatable option, which is nice since Flails/Morningstars are so great in IWD). I don't think Druids have any particularly awesome weapon options either, so losing the Fighter dual/multi doesn't necessarily hurt as much. Having a single class Druid is nice too if you want to run a Kensai dual in your party, as your Druid will get early access to Barkskin and it will progress quickly too.
    Skatan said:

    4: Fighter/zerker -> Mage
    Ideas: standard zerker/mage. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in long swords and pips in bows as well as the extra attacks.
    Questions:
    None. May be switched to a F/M instead of F->M, not sure. Will be elf in that case.

    Seems fine, though personally I would run Kensai > Mage instead. I don't like having too many of the same class in one party. Berserker is a bit more safe given all the immunities during rage and allows you to wear robes I think, but Kensai is likely more fun given the stupidly large amounts of damage you can do. It's too bad there aren't enough good katanas in IWD. F/M gives less downtime and will end up with better THAC0 at the expense of 0.5 APR, +3 damage, and -3 speed factor, as discussed above. Either is good.
    Skatan said:

    5: ?? Bard or Skald
    Ideas, pure singer and supporting buffer. Probably vanilla bard, but I am unsure if the skald or sith-song is the best. I am prolly aiming for the AC and HP regen for easier dungeon crawling. Will most likely be the face of the party if I go for this char.

    Personally I think War Chant is overrated if you have any real healing in your party. Skald bonuses will be pretty significant with 3-4 Fighter multi/duals hitting for 3-5 APR unbuffed and 6-10 APR buffed.
    Skatan said:

    6: ?? Last one I'm not sure. I love C/M's, sorc's and archers. Either one would do well, but none of them is really needed, so maybe none of the above?
    Question: Another thought is to even go as far as to also exclude the bard and do this as a four man party, but then I will be weak in arcane (I love to have two of each; divine and arcane). But as said above, can be countered by dualing the thief to mage instead of fighter (or go F/M/T, but I'm not a fan of that class and don't want to use it).

    Having a primary ranged damage dealer could be nice. Someone who can use the nice longbows and crossbows in the game and get consistent damage without choking up the front lines.

    Again, I'm not by any means an expert at this game, but I like reading up on strategies and building characters/parties. I'd love to hear any opinions or corrections.
  • AerevynAerevyn Member Posts: 14
    I have been very successful with my party (in chapter 6 now);

    Human Inquisitor (Paladin Kit, 2-handed swords)
    Dwarven Fighter/Cleric (Multi-class, Maces)
    Elven Archer (Ranger Kit, Longbows)
    Half-Elf Fighter/Thief (Multi-class, Short-swords)
    Human Sorceror
    Half-Elven Wild-Mage (Wizard kit)

    I've found that, although quite cheesy, I can kite & kill most enemies in the game with the Archer alone. Magical arrows are somewhat scarce though and sometimes I don't have enough for all the non-magic-weapon-immune creatures so he has to go melee.

    The Sorceror & Wild Mage are pretty powerful though they spend approx 80% of fights using slings (I prefer to not abuse rest mechanics too much) so I have their spells available for the tough fights.

    In hindsight, I should have done the following;
    Fighter/Thief should have used longswords, there were some good short swords early on but upgrades have been scarce since then.
    Wild-Mage should have started as fighter for 2-3 levels, gone for Longbow proficiency then just gone straight mage. Wild magic is fun (SQUIRRELS!!!) but rarely beneficial. My only TPK came at level 2 when I fireballed my own party and killed them all.

    I didn't include a bard or druid because I'm too used to BG2 where they are... underwhelming.
  • SkatanSkatan Member, Moderator Posts: 5,352
    reivision said:



    First off, I'm not sure you want that many dual classes. Yes, you get GM for all your Fighter duals, but the eventual trade-off compared to multiclass Fighters is something like 0.5APR, +3 damage, and -3 speed factor (assuming Dual between 7 and 12). That's it.

    Multiclass Fighters eventually get a second APR and THAC0 of 0, so they will actually have better base THAC0 and are missing out only on the differences between Specialization (**) and GM (*****): 1 more APR, +2 THAC0, +3 damage, and -3 speed factor. Usually Fighter duals happen at 7 or 9 anyway, so duals only get 0.5 APR from their Fighter levels and not the full 1 APR which occurs at 13.

    Dual get 3 APR, MC 2,5. I like even numbers as it is my experience that only when you stand still for two full rounds and slam away at the same opponent does that half attack end up only being just that, half attack less over two rounds. When taking moving and re-positioning, changes targets etc, it always feel like full attacks (2 or 3 vs 1,5 or 2,5) make a unit so much more efficient.
    reivision said:


    Multiclass also opens up better racial options than Human. Half-Orc Strength and Constitution bonuses are of course great for any frontliner, as are shorty bonuses to saves.

    Multiclass also lets you gain more experience, as you can hit 30 for every class in your multiclass characters while dual classes are limited to the amount of experience it takes to hit 30 in their first class (I believe, not sure if this has been fixed yet). So dual classes (depending on when you dual) may not even have enough experience under the cap to hit x/30.

    19 vs 18:9X strength is no big difference. You will be very efficient either way. And as I said, it takes a long time to reach max levels, so that's not the issue here. I will playthrough once, w/o HoF, and then move on to another group, most likely a full single-class party. If max levels was the aim, I would go for the Haeravon (IIRC) guide and go for five F/M/C's and one F/M/T.
    reivision said:


    That much dual class will be less painful if you play with Insane experience gain. I played a dual Berserker (7) > Cleric on Insane and the dual was pretty painless. I was able to dual at level 1 of Dragon's Eye and got my Fighter levels back and GM in Flails/Morningstars at level 8 Cleric on Dragon's Eye level 3. That's a lot of downtime though you're looking at if you go 0% bonus experience, especially with the later duals you're planning. Could be fun I suppose to play with a bunch of concurrent duals, but that's really up to you.

    This is true. Perhaps modding away the exp gains is better suited for a single-class party. Being able to regain my fighter levels within chapter 2 is not considered neither painful nor a long downtime if you ask me. I would never ever play a level 20+ -> level 20+ char, but a 9->XX is doable.
    reivision said:


    Finally, your planned duals leave you without any renewable source of healing until level 9 for your Cleric and Druid duals or 11 if you go vanilla Bard. This could be an issue. Depends on how much gold you want to spend on heals or if you don't mind resting for days at a time.
    planning. Could be fun I suppose to play with a bunch of concurrent duals, but that's really up to you.

    This is true and I will be dependent on potions for some time. I don't mind resting in dungeons though, this will not be a RP playthrough.

    reivision said:


    Dualing from Swash is kind of a mixed bag, as you generally want to hit 5 or 10 for the extra +1 hit/damage and AC, but on the other hand it gets full Thieving points so it's great for a dual if you want to max out necessary thieving skills and dual ASAP to minimize the Thief-less downtime in your party. Level 5 should be a good target and give you enough points to hit 100 in both Locks and Traps. I'd probably advise against Bounty Hunter for a Dual if it's your only Thief in the party given the penalty to thieving points per level.

    Itemwise you can pick up the Girdle of Gond in Kuldahar from Orrick I think: +10 Locks, +5 Traps. I don't know if Detect Illusion is worth delaying a dual, but I doubt it for IWD.

    I almost always try to throw in some kind of Fighter class with my Thieves, as without the THAC0 boost they can fall off, and (more importantly) Thieves or Thief/other class duals/multis are locked to base 1 APR, which hurts in an optimized party.

    My personal favorites for thieving duties in IWD are Half-Orc F/T (19 Str for a more melee/backstab focus) or Elf F/M/T (for 19 Dex, +1 THAC0 with swords/longbows, and arcane support). I would go Gnome Ill/T if I wanted a Mage/Thief dual/multi.

    Or you could go Swash > Mage, which is basically a Mage that can do locks/traps. Swash bonuses don't really make up for being locked to 1 APR IMO, so I'd consider a Swash > Mage a Mage with slightly better stats and utility rather than a real frontline combatant.

    Yes, thanks for the idea about the belt. That could save a level perhaps. And yes, I guess DI is rather useless.
    If T>F the char would be used for combat, but if BH>M or Swashie>M, the char would of course be a supporting caster and stay out of the fray. If thief to mage, I could end up with a four man party with two divine casters and two arcane caster, two in the front and two in the back. This is what I am interested to hear more about from people with that kind of experience. I have played F/T halforc and though it is arguable a strong character, she mainly stands in the back and fires arrows, so she's kinda underwhelming in that party, even with 19 STR. This is mainly because I hate switching armors if I can avoid it and there's not really a plethora of amazing rogue armors in the game.
    reivision said:


    I think Berserker/Cleric or F/C multi is the way to go. Getting those extra APR are very good when combined with all the great self-buffs of Clerics. 18/xx Strength scores from the start are nice too. I've been trying single class Clerics to try out the kits, but for an optimized party a Fighter multi or dual is definitely the way to go.

    I don't think going to 9 is necessarily worth it. You get a few extra HP, an improvement in saves which will be overwritten by your better eventual Cleric saves anyway, an extra use of Enrage/day (from 2 to 3, which is IMO not really that big), and one more proficiency pip.

    I prefer dualing at 7 since that gets you your 0.5 Fighter APR and finishes the dual downtime faster. You also get GM earlier since Cleric gets their third set of pips at level 8, which you can use to finish off your GM (and then you can actually use it, rather than a level 9 dual where you get your GM then immediately lose it to your dual classing). The only real tradeoff is 2 Fighter HD vs. 2 Cleric HD for levels 8 and 9. Big whoop.

    Hmm.. weren't the ability to go GM in the "wrong" class patched away some time ago? I thought you couldn't add a pip in GM with the cleric level. If this is true, then of course there's no need for level 9 fighter/zerker, since that's the strongest argument.
    reivision said:


    You have to be a Half-Elf with some stupidly high stats to dual class. I've rolled a Berserker>Druid and am currently playing a Kensai>Druid, but IMO it's probably not worth dualing to Druid overall. A Druid dual needs 15 Str, 17 Wis, and 17 Cha. You need to roll in the mid-90s to get a fully optimized character with max Str, Dex, Con, Wis.

    Multi can kind of hurt because of the huge jump from Druid 14>15, so it's pick your poison I guess.

    I usually run with a Druid kit these days since they're more fun/viable than Cleric kits IMO and that way I have divine healing from level 1 (opening up a Fighter > Cleric dual as a more palatable option, which is nice since Flails/Morningstars are so great in IWD). I don't think Druids have any particularly awesome weapon options either, so losing the Fighter dual/multi doesn't necessarily hurt as much. Having a single class Druid is nice too if you want to run a Kensai dual in your party, as your Druid will get early access to Barkskin and it will progress quickly too.

    I don't mind the hassle of rolling for a dual-friendly ability score, if needed.
    I guess scimitars or staff would be the choice if going for GM.
    You make a good point about having one divine caster available from the get-go, though it messes up the symmetry of the group, having one singleclass char :P
    If anyone will go kensai, it could be the F->M, so yeah that is indeed an option.. but it messes with my idea of the group, hehe..
    reivision said:


    Seems fine, though personally I would run Kensai > Mage instead. I don't like having too many of the same class in one party. Berserker is a bit more safe given all the immunities during rage and allows you to wear robes I think, but Kensai is likely more fun given the stupidly large amounts of damage you can do. It's too bad there aren't enough good katanas in IWD. F/M gives less downtime and will end up with better THAC0 at the expense of 0.5 APR, +3 damage, and -3 speed factor, as discussed above. Either is good.

    True, kensage is a classic, but I'm not a big fan of kensai's for some reason. I am thinking the F>M will take on the role of ranged more often than the F>C and/or the F>D due to weapon restrictions of the other classes. An idea I had was to GM in ranged so that the thief character and the mage character both go for ranged and the cleric and the druid are for melee. Not sure though..
    reivision said:


    Personally I think War Chant is overrated if you have any real healing in your party. Skald bonuses will be pretty significant with 3-4 Fighter multi/duals hitting for 3-5 APR unbuffed and 6-10 APR buffed.

    Solid advice there. Will take that into consideration.
    reivision said:


    Having a primary ranged damage dealer could be nice. Someone who can use the nice longbows and crossbows in the game and get consistent damage without choking up the front lines.

    Again, I'm not by any means an expert at this game, but I like reading up on strategies and building characters/parties. I'd love to hear any opinions or corrections.

    I love the archer. She can reach 5 ARP at level 9 with the messenger of Sseth and has >30% of the kills of any 6 man party (over 40% in my current party since I use her for scouting and pulling/killing). I love archer so much I must try to NOT use one. Same with Sorcerer. I rarely use fighters, that's why I was planning on using them in this party setup, going alot more for melee than ever before.

    Thanks for your long reply @reivision. Even though I may sound like I dispute most of your points doesn't mean I don't appreciate the input!
  • TEMNOZORANTEMNOZORAN Member Posts: 54
    It seems that most players are making power builds

    A good power build, if not playing HOF:

    1 Elf Fighter/Mage mace ** longsword* longbow* / then Lsword** katana**
    2 Gnome Fighter/Illusionist flail** Two Weapon*** /then axe **
    3 Dwarf Fighter/Cleric quaterstaff** two handed style** / then sling* and flail**
    4 Human thief10>Fighter Longbow* Longsword* / then max on twoHsword*****
    5 Elf Sorceress sling* /then dagger* darts*
    6 Half elf Fighter/Mage/Cleric sling** hammer** / then two weapon and flail

    why this choice:

    1 and 2 : Fighter/mage : best tank of the game, last longer in battle than any other class and cast spells

    the elf will be able to use a great elf- half/elf only shield (late game item)
    the gnome will use a special item restricted to gnome and halfling, specialist mage so +1 spell/level
    Con bonus on saves vs spells and wands.
    Both starts with Armour and Sleep spells.

    3 Fighter/cleric dwarf with good saves and a reach weapon to let the 2 F/M tank, he stays behind healing, casting and bashing with his quater staff

    4 You need someone to remove traps , so max thief skills until the level you want then become a second linefighter with a two handed weapon. backstab when you need it. I go lvl 10 to get the special thief abilities
    Try to have your thief skills back in Dragon Eye, or dual class just after.

    5 Sorcer is cool, can adapt easily to enemies. Scroll spells are rare for high levels, and we already have 4 spell casters, this make the sorceress very nice in the team

    6 Late game killing machine. F/M/C can combine fighter might with mage buffs and cleric buffs to bring havoc on enemies!

    having 5 spellcasters in the team means that in 1 round the enemies will suffer from 5 spells.

    Many bludgeoning weapons to crush the bones of skeletal undeads who are legion in IWD.
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Skatan said:

    My current playthrough had a party not created for being "the best", and while being very enjoyable characters I have experienced nuisance with some of my choices (wrong choice of thief skills on two characters among other things). In my next playthrough I was thinking of creating a rather strong melee oriented party (I usually play with 6 ranged, 2 of which go melee after contact) whilst still being able to do and try pretty much everything. Input needed, 4 vs 5 or 6 man party:

    1: Thief/Swashie (thanks @Elrandir, had forgot to write that) or bountyhunter-> Fighter
    Ideas: Just enough to do traps and locks. Will not be used for BS, but may become the scout nonetheless, but will do that with invisibility spell. Was planning on using primarily xbow and a supporting melee weapon of some kind. Possible staff or dagger.
    Questions:
    1 What do you think of my weapon choices? There are plenty of awesome xbows in the game from early on.
    2 Is dispel illusions worth leveing before I dual to fighter? Should I perhaps not dual to fighter and instead go for something else (based on the rest of the gang, maybe mage)?
    3 What items do you know of that grant +% to locks and traps which can enable me to dual sooner from thief?
    4 Bounty hunter vs Swashie?

    2: Fighter/berzerker -> Cleric
    Ideas: standard zerker/cleric. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in flails and pips in slings.
    Questions:
    1 "Berzeric"/"Berzercleric" vs pure cleric kit. I like fighter for the 18:9X strength bonus though, but halforcs get 19 of course.

    3: Fighter/zerker -> Druid
    Ideas: standard zerker/druid. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in scimitars and pips in slings.
    Questions:
    1 same as above, dual or kit? Possibly avenger. Same as above with the strength, but druid has less races available though.

    4: Fighter/zerker -> Mage
    Ideas: standard zerker/mage. Nothing out of the ordinary. Planned level is 9 -> for grand mastery in long swords and pips in bows as well as the extra attacks.
    Questions:
    None. May be switched to a F/M instead of F->M, not sure. Will be elf in that case.

    5: ?? Bard or Skald
    Ideas, pure singer and supporting buffer. Probably vanilla bard, but I am unsure if the skald or sith-song is the best. I am prolly aiming for the AC and HP regen for easier dungeon crawling. Will most likely be the face of the party if I go for this char.

    6: ?? Last one I'm not sure. I love C/M's, sorc's and archers. Either one would do well, but none of them is really needed, so maybe none of the above?
    Question: Another thought is to even go as far as to also exclude the bard and do this as a four man party, but then I will be weak in arcane (I love to have two of each; divine and arcane). But as said above, can be countered by dualing the thief to mage instead of fighter (or go F/M/T, but I'm not a fan of that class and don't want to use it).

    Game is planned to be on insane level. Possible modded down to exclude the EXP boost. No other mods planned for now.

    Cheers,
    //Skatan

    Skald definitely as the +4 AC does heaps for ease of dungeon crawling along with the other boosts.

    Only need level 7 on your berserker duals. Unless you do kensei. The Druid and/or Mage are good candidates for kensei.

    For the thief slot I'd recommend Fighter/Mage/Thief. Makes a good archer, few extra buffs and can backstab.

    My sixth slot went to a second cleric build. Being without a cleric until you can complete your duals is challenging. A fighter/Mage/cleric or similar might be a good candidate to ease that transition.

    With focused power gaming parties like this I'd recommend playing HoF, regular insane will be trivial as soon as the duals are complete.
  • JurisJuris Member Posts: 113
    Just finished a no-reload game with a non-optimized H-Elf Fi/Dr, Dwarven Defender, Human Dual Berserker7/Cleric, Ha Fi/Th, Elf Fi/Ma, and H-Elf Skald. Very powerful 'all-fighter' combo. The Dwarven Defender had the most kills by about 50%. The Skald was much more useful than I thought she'd be, the high-level skald bardsong is pretty awesome (especially with an all-fighter party). I do wish they let bards fight and sing at the same time.


  • TEMNOZORANTEMNOZORAN Member Posts: 54
    The dwarven defender is great in a battle heavy game
  • GilgalahadGilgalahad Member Posts: 237
    edited February 2015
    I've got my 2nd party all set up with 1 exception and I can't seem to find the info I need. Lots of best overall party recommendations and all but what I need are stats for my bard. Wth do I roll for this guy? I know char is important and probably some dex, but what about int since he/she can cast mage spells? is that important?. So basically, if you rolled a bard just to fling archer death from the back row and sing a song of six pence for those trolls, and cast those wiz spells, what should the stats look like? Here's what I rolled
    Str-15
    dex-18
    con-17
    int-18
    wis-6
    cha-18
  • WowoWowo Member Posts: 2,064
    Gilgalahad said:

    I've got my 2nd party all set up with 1 exception and I can't seem to find the info I need. Lots of best overall party recommendations and all but what I need are stats for my bard. Wth do I roll for this guy? I know char is important and probably some dex, but what about int since he/she can cast mage spells? is that important?. So basically, if you rolled a bard just to fling archer death from the back row and sing a song of six pence for those trolls, and cast those wiz spells, what should the stats look like? Here's what I rolled
    Str-15
    dex-18
    con-17
    int-18
    wis-6
    cha-18

    18 strength is good for composite longbow.
    18 dex is good.
    16 con for max HP.
    18 int for spells is good.
    3 wisdom is fine.
    18 charisma is good but only effects shop prices/talking to people.
  • mikklemikkle Member Posts: 39
    Now I'm thinking of trying out:

    1) Fighter/Thief - Half-Orc: (Max Str/Dex/Con, high Int) for juicy back stabs, specializing in hiding in shadows, silent walking and archery from time to time (most of the time fighting in the front line dual wielding short swords/daggers)

    2) Mage/Thief - Elf: (Max Dex and Int, high Char) specializing in traps and opening locks. Mainly learning control spells and AoE spells.

    3) Berserker - Human (Max Str [aiming for 18/00]/Dex/Con, high Wis (roll for will??) 2h sword user, mainly used as a tank and to slice enemies,

    4) Archer - Elf (Max Str and Dex) good bow user is always necessary,

    5) Fighter(6?)/Cleric - Human (Max Str,Dex,Con and Wis, high Char) just pure healer/buffer tailored for front line.

    6) Cleric/Illusionist - (Max Str,Dex,Con,Int, High Wis) jack of all trades, it is more of a fun character. His role will be bringing heavy supply of arcane and divine offensive magic in the front line. Also working as kind of a decoy (mirror images).
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    mikkle said:

    Now I'm thinking of trying out:

    1) Fighter/Thief - Half-Orc: (Max Str/Dex/Con, high Int) for juicy back stabs, specializing in hiding in shadows, silent walking and archery from time to time (most of the time fighting in the front line dual wielding short swords/daggers)

    2) Mage/Thief - Elf: (Max Dex and Int, high Char) specializing in traps and opening locks. Mainly learning control spells and AoE spells.

    3) Berserker - Human (Max Str [aiming for 18/00]/Dex/Con, high Wis (roll for will??) 2h sword user, mainly used as a tank and to slice enemies,

    4) Archer - Elf (Max Str and Dex) good bow user is always necessary,

    5) Fighter(6?)/Cleric - Human (Max Str,Dex,Con and Wis, high Char) just pure healer/buffer tailored for front line.

    6) Cleric/Illusionist - (Max Str,Dex,Con,Int, High Wis) jack of all trades, it is more of a fun character. His role will be bringing heavy supply of arcane and divine offensive magic in the front line. Also working as kind of a decoy (mirror images).

    I'd recommend taking a Bard. They're very powerful in IwD. Also, there's no save vs Will as this is still 2nd Edition. Otherwise nice party composition :)
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 898
    edited April 2016
    Why the high INT on the F/T?

    If you're going to dual a fighter, do it at level 3, 7, 9 or 13.
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    Klorox said:

    Why the high INT on the F/T?

    If you're going to dual a fighter, do it at level 3, 7, 9 or 13.

    Since mikkle mentioned Will saves, I'm guessing they are thinking 3E, where high Int gives thieves more skill points.
  • mikklemikkle Member Posts: 39
    Klorox said:

    Why the high INT on the F/T?

    If you're going to dual a fighter, do it at level 3, 7, 9 or 13.

    Isn't it that higher intelligence give extra thieving skills? I was always dead sure it did still in 2ed haha
  • luskanluskan Member Posts: 269
    mikkle said:

    Klorox said:

    Why the high INT on the F/T?

    If you're going to dual a fighter, do it at level 3, 7, 9 or 13.

    Isn't it that higher intelligence give extra thieving skills? I was always dead sure it did still in 2ed haha
    Nope. Higher Dex gives extra thief skills.
  • theoducktheoduck Member Posts: 12
    So much fun. I played the original back in 2000. If they're planning on making it look like SoD, I might even sweat out HoF again.

    [POSSIBLE SPOILER BELOW]


    I've done everything except go up the stairs to fight Poquelin and I'm wondering about the best way to play HoW with this party and NOT lose my bag of holding/money. Lack of a smooth transition seems to me like a pretty glaring omission for an "Enhanced" version of these games...

    MY HoF Party:

    1: GALATEA - Human F 21 Paladin (18/20, 18, 18, 9, 13, 19*)
    Bastard Sowrd+
    Two-Handed Sword++
    Longbow++
    Two-Handed Weapon Style++
    Single Weapon Style++
    Two Weapon Style++
    *Sune's Laurel of Favor
    Cairn Blade +4
    Longbow +3: Repeater

    2: S'SONIA - Human F 25 Cleric/6 Ranger (18/07, 18, 18, 15, 18, 10)
    Racial Enemy Yuan-Ti
    War Hammer++
    Club++
    Flail/MS++
    Mace++
    Sling++
    Two Weapon Style+++
    Sanctified Morning Star +3
    Morning Star +4: Defender
    Sling +1

    3: BURL - Dwarf M 24 Fighter (19*, 17, 19, 10, 10, 13)
    Axe+++++
    Crossbow+++
    Two-Handed Weapon Style++
    Sword and Shield Style++
    *Ring of Dwarven Bone
    Benorg's Truth +3
    The Celebrant's Blade +4
    Axe of Caged Souls +3
    (...sometimes a Burl just can't decide...)
    Throwing Axe +2
    Shield of the Hand

    4: MAYA - Elf F 20 Sorcerer (18/99*, 19, 19*, 18, 18, 11)
    Dagger+
    Quarterstaff+
    Dart+
    Sling+
    *Ogi-Luc's Great Robe
    Chaos Dagger +3

    5: BLACK DOOGLE - Halfling 16 Fighter/19 Thief (17, 19, 18, 15, 10, 10)
    Short Sword++
    Dagger++
    Shortbow+
    Sling++
    Single Weapon Style++
    Short Sword of Shadows +3
    Edley's Sling +3

    6: XIANGQI - Human 20 Mage/9 Fighter (19*, 19**, 18, 18, 10, 10)
    Katana++
    Scimitar Etc...+
    Dagger+
    Longbow+++++
    Sling+
    Single Weapon Style+
    *Girdle of Stromnos
    **Deep Red Ioun Stone
    Solemn Duty +3
    The Black Bow +3
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @theoduck There is a smooth transition if you just talk to the guy in Kuldahar.
  • dok0zhivagodok0zhivago Member Posts: 82
    mikkle said:

    Now I'm thinking of trying out:

    1) Fighter/Thief - Half-Orc: (Max Str/Dex/Con, high Int) for juicy back stabs, specializing in hiding in shadows, silent walking and archery from time to time (most of the time fighting in the front line dual wielding short swords/daggers)

    2) Mage/Thief - Elf: (Max Dex and Int, high Char) specializing in traps and opening locks. Mainly learning control spells and AoE spells.

    3) Berserker - Human (Max Str [aiming for 18/00]/Dex/Con, high Wis (roll for will??) 2h sword user, mainly used as a tank and to slice enemies,

    4) Archer - Elf (Max Str and Dex) good bow user is always necessary,

    5) Fighter(6?)/Cleric - Human (Max Str,Dex,Con and Wis, high Char) just pure healer/buffer tailored for front line.

    6) Cleric/Illusionist - (Max Str,Dex,Con,Int, High Wis) jack of all trades, it is more of a fun character. His role will be bringing heavy supply of arcane and divine offensive magic in the front line. Also working as kind of a decoy (mirror images).

    My 2 cents:

    1) I tend to use F/T as a primarily ranged user and backstabber/flanker as a secondary role. You already have a Berseker & F/C so no need to use F/T as a front line tank

    2) A classic :)

    3) My advice: go for axes instead greatswords. IWD has a nice selection of both 1H and 2H axes. And you'll be able to use ranged attacks with a certain returning axe ;)

    4) Death from above. Machine gunner.

    5) I prefer Ranger/Cleric or Fighter/Cleric multi. But since you plan to use your cleric as a pure healer and already have a C/I you could always go with a pure Cleric of Tempus.

    6) Metamagic expert. Takes some time to develop but it is worth it.

    I would also recommend a Bard. Maybe instead of Mage/Thief. You already have the thief skills covered with F/T, scouting with Archer and spells with C/I. And bards also have a few spells up their sleeve.






  • mikklemikkle Member Posts: 39
    dok0zhivago said:

    mikkle said:

    Now I'm thinking of trying out:

    1) Fighter/Thief - Half-Orc: (Max Str/Dex/Con, high Int) for juicy back stabs, specializing in hiding in shadows, silent walking and archery from time to time (most of the time fighting in the front line dual wielding short swords/daggers)

    2) Mage/Thief - Elf: (Max Dex and Int, high Char) specializing in traps and opening locks. Mainly learning control spells and AoE spells.

    3) Berserker - Human (Max Str [aiming for 18/00]/Dex/Con, high Wis (roll for will??) 2h sword user, mainly used as a tank and to slice enemies,

    4) Archer - Elf (Max Str and Dex) good bow user is always necessary,

    5) Fighter(6?)/Cleric - Human (Max Str,Dex,Con and Wis, high Char) just pure healer/buffer tailored for front line.

    6) Cleric/Illusionist - (Max Str,Dex,Con,Int, High Wis) jack of all trades, it is more of a fun character. His role will be bringing heavy supply of arcane and divine offensive magic in the front line. Also working as kind of a decoy (mirror images).

    My 2 cents:

    1) I tend to use F/T as a primarily ranged user and backstabber/flanker as a secondary role. You already have a Berseker & F/C so no need to use F/T as a front line tank

    2) A classic :)

    3) My advice: go for axes instead greatswords. IWD has a nice selection of both 1H and 2H axes. And you'll be able to use ranged attacks with a certain returning axe ;)

    4) Death from above. Machine gunner.

    5) I prefer Ranger/Cleric or Fighter/Cleric multi. But since you plan to use your cleric as a pure healer and already have a C/I you could always go with a pure Cleric of Tempus.

    6) Metamagic expert. Takes some time to develop but it is worth it.

    I would also recommend a Bard. Maybe instead of Mage/Thief. You already have the thief skills covered with F/T, scouting with Archer and spells with C/I. And bards also have a few spells up their sleeve.







    Thanks for the suggestions! I agree actually F/T is better Off with a bow I guess, then backstab when necessary.

    I'm not so sure about that bard thing mentioned already. Bards are weak spellcasters despite the fact they level fast, they have pickpocket only and their bard song gives basically the same effect as cleric buffs. Thus I cannot really see how they can be useful. Having M/T instead I have way more thieving skills and more spells, so (F/T can focus on hiding in shadows and silent move).

    Since F/T can be archer I was thinking about leaving archer for something else then maybe.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    In IWD particularly, Bards are anything but weak. Even the class-specific equipment is great.
  • dok0zhivagodok0zhivago Member Posts: 82
    Wowo said:

    mikkle said:

    dok0zhivago said:

    mikkle said:

    Now I'm thinking of trying out:

    1) Fighter/Thief - Half-Orc: (Max Str/Dex/Con, high Int) for juicy back stabs, specializing in hiding in shadows, silent walking and archery from time to time (most of the time fighting in the front line dual wielding short swords/daggers)

    2) Mage/Thief - Elf: (Max Dex and Int, high Char) specializing in traps and opening locks. Mainly learning control spells and AoE spells.

    3) Berserker - Human (Max Str [aiming for 18/00]/Dex/Con, high Wis (roll for will??) 2h sword user, mainly used as a tank and to slice enemies,

    4) Archer - Elf (Max Str and Dex) good bow user is always necessary,

    5) Fighter(6?)/Cleric - Human (Max Str,Dex,Con and Wis, high Char) just pure healer/buffer tailored for front line.

    6) Cleric/Illusionist - (Max Str,Dex,Con,Int, High Wis) jack of all trades, it is more of a fun character. His role will be bringing heavy supply of arcane and divine offensive magic in the front line. Also working as kind of a decoy (mirror images).

    My 2 cents:

    1) I tend to use F/T as a primarily ranged user and backstabber/flanker as a secondary role. You already have a Berseker & F/C so no need to use F/T as a front line tank

    2) A classic :)

    3) My advice: go for axes instead greatswords. IWD has a nice selection of both 1H and 2H axes. And you'll be able to use ranged attacks with a certain returning axe ;)

    4) Death from above. Machine gunner.

    5) I prefer Ranger/Cleric or Fighter/Cleric multi. But since you plan to use your cleric as a pure healer and already have a C/I you could always go with a pure Cleric of Tempus.

    6) Metamagic expert. Takes some time to develop but it is worth it.

    I would also recommend a Bard. Maybe instead of Mage/Thief. You already have the thief skills covered with F/T, scouting with Archer and spells with C/I. And bards also have a few spells up their sleeve.







    Thanks for the suggestions! I agree actually F/T is better Off with a bow I guess, then backstab when necessary.

    I'm not so sure about that bard thing mentioned already. Bards are weak spellcasters despite the fact they level fast, they have pickpocket only and their bard song gives basically the same effect as cleric buffs. Thus I cannot really see how they can be useful. Having M/T instead I have way more thieving skills and more spells, so (F/T can focus on hiding in shadows and silent move).

    Since F/T can be archer I was thinking about leaving archer for something else then maybe.
    Bards are amazing, especially Skalds and the songs stack with cleric buffs and everything else making them among the best buffs available in the game.

    I'd sooner do a party with a bard and a skald than do a party without any bard at all.

    Also there is unique quest experience available to bards, Paladins and Druids so I always include one of each of these in a non-HoF run and in HoF I still have a bard and a druid at least as they are so powerful in IWDee.
    I'll second this post.
    Paladin kits are great.
    Druids are great and their spell selection is better than in BG series.
    And Bards are in my opinion a must have. Vanilla Bards are great & versatile class while Skalds are a great addition to melee heavy parties. Think of Skalds as a constant buff potion to your fighter classes.
    As for bards being weak spellcasters, Bard's primary asset is their song, they are secondary spell casters but they can complement your party mage and widen your spell selection.


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