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If you could change npc classes...

GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099
What would you change them to?

Valgyar: Wizard slayer
He was a soldier, so the fighter kit makes more sense than a ranger.
His personal quest is about wizard hunting and his dialogue shows his intense distrust of magic. So...why give him wizard spells as a stalker?

Minsc: Barbarian
Better rage, shows his 'berserker lodge' background. He also never struck me as being a trained fighter, and as a ranger he doesn't come across as being especially sneaky. More of a charge in front of the party screaming sort of guy.

Nalia: Sorceress
So she isn't an 'imoen-lite' and will stand out against Edwin/Imoen/Jan. Also explains why a pampered noble who has only ever snuck out to help commoners can hang with proven heroes. I'd have her start with plenty of illusion spells to show how she snuck out. Spells like invisibility, blur, knock, etc.

Cernd: Avenger
No dialogue or quest ever addresses him turning into a werewolf, which is really disappointing. However he is always talking about being called to the land. Seeing as how he gave everything up for the land, the avenger seems to fit him better.

Hexxat: Shadowdancer
Change vampire to shade (human with a blurred image) to show that she is cursed. No clunky vampire issues messing with the story. At the end of her personal quest she can become human and lose her Shadowdancer abilities. Her overall story would remain the same, while using an actual kit and avoiding all the annoying plot issues that her being a Mary Sue causes. Plus it'd make her follow the rest of the EE NPCs in showing off new kits.

Anyways that's it for me? Agree? Disagree? Have more?

semiticgodNoobaccaJuliusBorisovGallowglassGoturalFlashburndeltago

Comments

  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 14,094
    Valygar might also be a mage dual-classed to fighter. It would make for a rather interesting character build.

    Anomen might start as a fighter and then have his class changed to paladin after he passes his test.

    GrumJuliusBorisov
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099

    Valygar might also be a mage dual-classed to fighter. It would make for a rather interesting character build.

    Anomen might start as a fighter and then have his class changed to paladin after he passes his test.

    I like the Anomen idea. Sure he gets no kit, but keeping the fighter proficiency points? That'd more than make up for it.

    Also that would certainly be interesting for Valgyar. The issue for me is that he'd still rely on spells/scrolls to be really effective, which I feel would go against his character.

    If he had enough Mage levels to get stoneskin though, he'd probably be a must take for me. Damn...now I want that playthrough...

    JuliusBorisov
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,502
    Rasaad: Dark Moon Monk
    Really, the corruption path should be as oblivious as shining daylight.

    Nalia: Cavalier
    Over are the days about damsels in distress. Better to grow some muscles, kicking some trolls out of her keep and become a duchess herself. That be much better than the current Imoen clone wannabe.

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,143
    I'd like to mention similar threads from the past: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/15188/kitting-the-npcs and https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/16816/kitting-npcs-what-would-you-change

    Also, I'd like to link https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/43305/npc-ee-non-player-characters-enhanced-for-everyone/p1 by @subtledoctor - the mod that offers exactly the thing that is discussed here.

    As for the @Grum 's options, I agree on all of them, actually. Making Nalia a sorcerer would make her different from Imoen, and would lead to her featuring in a lot more parties than it's been for these 15+ years. A wizard slayer for Valygar seems fitting, considering his dialogues and personality. As for Minsc, the game actually calls him a berserker several times, but a barbarian would really be the best - offering the same weapon proficiency distribution. Hexxat as a shadowdancer is actually an idea I can't understand why it hasn't been made official. And Cernd - yeah, it seems he's going to "avenge" for the kidnapping.

    I would very much like if Branwen were given the Cleric of Tempus kit, while Viconia were given the Cleric of Shar kit.

    GrumNotabarbiegirl
  • SvarSvar Member Posts: 156
    edited December 2015
    Coran: Swashbuckler
    It makes sense with his womanizing personality and he's a little too squishy to me to feel like a genuine fighter, so having him be a fighter/thief seems a bit like false advertising.

    Rasaad: Fighter/Thief
    Okay, this isn't something I'd actually change, but I think it's interesting as a "what if Rasaad was never taken in by monks and ended up a gladiator as punishment for theft" idea.

    I do have one little objection to turning Minsc into a Barbarian, which is that him being a ranger provides an explanation for his ability to understand Boo. It's like he has an animal companion before animal companions were a thing.

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,143
    @Svar Actually, it's Boo who makes Mincs understand him. If not for the Boo's will, it won't be possible.

    SvarGrum
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,484
    Of all the ideas mentioned above I like the idea of 'enhancing' Nalia the most - she really needs something that makes her stand out, something that would make her the "go to" npc for a particular party slot rather than just a "not quite as good as" npc.

    GrumNotabarbiegirl
  • Cernd strikes me as more of a Totemic Druid than an Avenger, really.

    Grum
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    I always play Minsc as a Barbarian and Nalia as a Bard (with RR installed).

    I've also had Viconia as a Cleric/Thief before.

    I've also switched some of the multi classes to (completed) dual classes and vice-versa... But that's mainly for mechanical reasons rather than flavour.

  • BhryaenBhryaen Member Posts: 2,874
    There's a mod that used to let you pre-select the class of npcs. I advocated for it being a part of BGEE back in the pre-release days, but, you know, resources... It's actually already a more or less integrated part of vanilla Dragon Age 3- have to chose what type of warrior or such upon recruitment and then choose their abilities for them. I could see giving all sorts of oddball classes to NPCs just for the fun of it- Minsc as a wild mage, for ex- even especially despite their dialog not matching it- but as a semi-official suggestion, yeah, it'd be more in line with at least the basic class categories: Jaheira might be a stalker, Kivan might be an archer, Branwen might be a fighter->cleric dual class, Tiax might be full on cleric or even an illusionist since basic thievery isn't the typical practice for those who rule, and Imoen could start as a bufflehead with two pips in mutton-mongering.

    Grum
  • sluckerssluckers Member Posts: 280
    I always wished Imoen remained a single class thief. I'd change her. Probably swashbuckler.

    Grum
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099
    sluckers said:

    I always wished Imoen remained a single class thief. I'd change her. Probably swashbuckler.

    Same. I kind of wanted to see her become a shadow dancer though, to show her Bhaalspawn powers coming out. But yeah, she doesn't come across as a backstabber. Though any thief kit is better than an unexplained mage

    Notabarbiegirl
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    I keep hearing people want Imoen to not be a mage. To these folks I've gotta ask: how much do you want to rewrite the plot to SOA, because you'll need significant revisions in order to accommodate her not having unsanctioned magic.

    semiticgodJLeeGallowglass
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099

    I keep hearing people want Imoen to not be a mage. To these folks I've gotta ask: how much do you want to rewrite the plot to SOA, because you'll need significant revisions in order to accommodate her not having unsanctioned magic.

    I just don't think that it was needed. Sure the plot used it, but they had to change her class to make the plot without explaining it. My first playthrough I remember thinking "why the F is she a Mage? Wasn't she a thief?" It felt lazy.

    Keep her as a thief. Have Irenicus take her soul and leave her with you. Have her be the one developing into the slayer. When she transforms she becomes a fighter with insane stats and immunities. Have the reveal of her being a Bhaalspawn come out with this buildup.

    You still have the 'rescue Imoen' plot, only without losing her for half the game and without her being super far behind in xp

    sluckers
  • doggydoggy Member Posts: 313
    She is a bhaalspawn. So untapped and unknown powers rises when she is face to face with the friendly charming host we had down below.


    That would also for me be a hint about what is to come later for both her and yourself.

    And I like nalia the sorceres. There would be room for both in a goody goody party.

  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099
    doggy said:

    She is a bhaalspawn. So untapped and unknown powers rises when she is face to face with the friendly charming host we had down below.


    That would also for me be a hint about what is to come later for both her and yourself.

    And I like nalia the sorceres. There would be room for both in a goody goody party.

    Yeah but...it is never mentioned. She doesn't go "oh my god Charname, I can cast spells now!" Her class is just changed. So for head canon I agree with you. But the game doesn't ever hint that.

  • NotabarbiegirlNotabarbiegirl Member Posts: 143
    This Immy issue is why the NPC mods makes so much sense for BG/ BGEE. They actually took the time to explain " How the..., What the...., and Who the..." I know there are a lot of purists, but it works SO well.

    Grumsemiticgod
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,999
    edited December 2015
    Sarevok - Wizard Slayer

    Mostly to see people go
    image

  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    edited December 2015
    Grum said:


    Keep her as a thief. Have Irenicus take her soul and leave her with you. Have her be the one developing into the slayer. When she transforms she becomes a fighter with insane stats and immunities. Have the reveal of her being a Bhaalspawn come out with this buildup.

    You still have the 'rescue Imoen' plot, only without losing her for half the game and without her being super far behind in xp

    Well, so long as you appreciate the fact that you're basically rewriting the whole story. It's not exactly "you're still saving Imoen, so it's basically the same". With that in mind, and also that the Imoen dual-class, while unexplained, was still very much doable in the first game, revamping everything just to alleviate that one gripe seems...excessive, to say the least.

  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099

    Grum said:


    Keep her as a thief. Have Irenicus take her soul and leave her with you. Have her be the one developing into the slayer. When she transforms she becomes a fighter with insane stats and immunities. Have the reveal of her being a Bhaalspawn come out with this buildup.

    You still have the 'rescue Imoen' plot, only without losing her for half the game and without her being super far behind in xp

    Well, so long as you appreciate the fact that you're basically rewriting the whole story. It's not exactly "you're still saving Imoen, so it's basically the same". With that in mind, and also that the Imoen dual-class, while unexplained, was still very much doable in the first game, revamping everything just to alleviate that one gripe seems...excessive, to say the least.
    Sorta kinda revamping. Originally Imoen was supposed to go slayer but it was scrapped.

    But yeah...please note it is two gripes: that Imoen is taken out of the party and that when you get her back she is usually really under leveled.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,471
    My choices:

    Faldorn - avenger
    Garrick - jester
    Eldoth - blade
    Shar-Teel - barbarian
    Minsc - berserker
    Coran - archer
    Safana - swashbuckler

    Notabarbiegirl
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