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What will BG3 be about? (spoilers for BG2 and ToB)

WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
In my mind, it'd basically have to be a stand-alone game; it can't be a sequel. The end of ToB gave you that kind of closure that can't be rekindled. Every NPC had a story about their lives after the Bhaalspawn saga. Some even died or were never heard from again, one had a child with Charname. It's too complicated to use the same 'character', but they could say it's canon that you're the child of Aerie & Charname; thus being a grandchild of Bhaal. And if they do carry on with Charname & the party then your character level will be around 30+.

I'd say it'd have to be a different 'character'. What do you think?
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Comments

  • LordsDarkKnight185LordsDarkKnight185 Member Posts: 615
    Or at the very least, the great-great grandchild of Abdel Adrian (Not fond of the name, but canon it is his name, acording to The Grand History Of The Realms)

    There is a few kinks to work out, but it would make the character in a post sundering (D&D next) setting logical.

    I dig it.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    I know I'm a minority in this, but the only real way I'd consider the name BG3 to be suitable is if it's a direct continuation of the BG/BG2 character's story and you can import the ToB savefile and go from there. If it's set far in the future with another protagonist, imo it shouldn't go under the Baldur's Gate name.

    As for closure, if you have good writers it's always doable to work out a continuation. It may come off hamfisted somewhere or require some retconning, but I'd definitely prefer that over some pseudo-related story about someone else. The God of War games are good examples of this - you become a god in the first game, and the sequel picks it up from there.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    @Shin And that's why i don,t think a BG3 should be made
  • ramagonsramagons Member Posts: 96
    if it has anything about Abdel Adrian, I'm not buying it. I bought the baldur's gate book in high school and, like Firkraag, I still bear the scars from that meeting.
  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    edited September 2012
    I think if there is ever a Baldurs Gate III, it should continue the story, but with a new main character. All possible ways of "stripping" the main of its power and reverting him to a low level would feel forced.

    I think the whole Bhaalspawn Saga allows for a lot of new plots that are still related to the main story and yet have a different focus. Either you could be the offspring of one of the original bhaalspawn or - possibly even more interesting - an offspring of Cyric, which is as everyone knows the eternal nemesis of Bhaal.
    I could imagine a war between the new Bhaal (TOB Charname) and Cyric to break out in the mortal world as the main storyline.
    The events could happen 10 or 20 years after the events of Throne of Bhaal, so that you might encounter some of the old NPCs (Wouldn't it be nice to see an aged Imoen standing around Elmister somewhere in a tavern? Of course, your character would never recognize both of them, as he is a clueless level 1 ...).

    Other than that, there is at least one mortal offspring of Bhaal existing for sure, which is charname's child (in case the Aerie plot is made canon). Also, regarding to what Solar said, Imoen is the last remaining bhaalspawn ... and although she was stripped of her powers by the end of TOB, she could still have some divine essence left in her. Solar was never really clear about *how* Imoen would actually lose her powers.


    About the naming issue:
    If you see it like that, even Baldurs Gate II shouldn't be named Baldur's gate, because you aren't even able to visit the city it is named after in the sequel and expansion. I don't see a problem with that. It's some kind of a trademark name and there is no problem to continue it even with a new storyline.

    However, if there is a BG3, there is one thing I want for sure:
    A polished Infinity engine. No, I don't want something new. I don't want 3d. I want highress-textures, beautifully rendered backgrounds and possibly 3d character models (a mix of 3d and 2d works perfectly fine, as you can see in a lot of adventure games), but I want the game to remain "Infinity-esque". Means 2D backgrounds and a static isometric camera.
  • SolobearSolobear Member Posts: 55
    I just hope it starts you out at level 1, I really don't want to begin the game at level 30+
  • JomeroJomero Member Posts: 6
    edited September 2012
    I wouldn't want to see a continuation of the player character of the first two games. It's the same reason why I dislike authors continuing a book series about a protagonist who is already achieved godlike status and saved the world a dozen times over. It feels forced and lame.

    Sure, many fans will bitch and moan because they refuse to ever let the main character go. They can't do it. They refuse to do it. It's like they believe their lives will come crashing down around them if their favorite character is over and done with.

    But every saga must come to an end. Sagas that have no ending are not fun to read or play. If a BG3 is ever made and it's a continuation of the same Bhaalspawn, I swear on my life that I will not play it.

    However, if it's a new main character, then what I'd like to see is more exploration of different areas of Faerun that we haven't really seen before. Maybe even have the character be the spawn of a different god.

    Personally I wouldn't even mind seeing the game in an updated setting of Faerun, with the spellplague and all.
  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    I really don't see a possibility of continuing the story of the Bhaalspawn Saga in a future BG game but I'd like to see references to it in the story, maybe some descendants of the NPCs that survive the end of ToB showing up, old magic items we would instantly recognize, rumors whatever is possible to include.
  • MatteoTuriniMatteoTurini Member Posts: 105
    edited September 2012
    I think too that going for the god path would lead to great frustration... How can you make a game if the main character is a god, except having them fighting other gods in a wonderous display of uber-powers? Mind you, that could be cool by itself, but not with the Ad&d rules-system... We've seen in ToB were this has lead...

    I'd prefer something that could let you play another character entirely, starting from level 1 again, and exploring another part of the world (maybe with its own kits). For example, while here on the Sword Coast and then in Amn there were turmoils about the possible raise of a new incarnation of an ancient divinity of murder, what were the mighty barbarians and the powerful witches of the windy Rashemen doing? Did they have any prophecy about the rise of Bhaal? Did they care?

    What I'd really like would be an open-exploration game, like what I felt BG1 was up until you took on the main quests and started killing kobolds in the Nashkell Mines. A little like Skyrim, let's say, but with the Infinity Engine and the Ad&d rules-set (because I don't like Skyrim that much). Open exploration and new, different monsters and sceneries in an already well known and loved game-enviroment, that's what would make it for me! Not a new game entirely with a new engine and much different graphics.
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    or
    MatteoTurini said:

    I think too that going for the god path would lead to great frustration... How can you make a game if the main character is a god, except having them fighting other gods in a wonderous display of uber-powers? Mind you, that could be cool by itself, but not with the Ad&d rules-system... We've seen in ToB were this has lead...

    I'd prefer something that could let you play another character entirely, starting from level 1 again, and exploring another part of the world (maybe with its own kits). For example, while here on the Sword Coast and then in Amn there were turmoils about the possible raise of a new incarnation of an ancient divinity of murder, what were the mighty barbarians and the powerful witches of the windy Rashemen doing? Did they have any prophecy about the rise of Bhaal? Did they care?

    What I'd really like would be an open-exploration game, like what I felt BG1 was up until you took on the main quests and started killing kobolds in the Nashkell Mines. A little like Skyrim, let's say, but with the Infinity Engine and the Ad&d rules-set (because I don't like Skyrim that much). Open exploration and new, different monsters and sceneries in an already well known and loved game-enviroment, that's what would make it for me! Not a new game entirely with a new engine and much different graphics.

    This. This so much. Would like it to still be in the Sword Coast, but just to see what it's like 3 years after the Bhaalspawn incident. Especially since we know what happened in Amn.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2012
    There's a few factors that Philip Daigle said would affect BG3, if there is one.

    First, Philip has advised that WotC will likely insist that for BG3 the setting be in sync with their related products on the shelves at the time of release. BG2:EE is scheduled for a target release sometime next year. Then for BG3 they will be building a new game from the ground up. (It will not use the Infinity engine.) That takes time. So we're talking about at least a couple of years from now.

    Second, the current 4th edition FRCS is set over a century after ToB took place. I'm not sure if BG3 will have to follow canon for the BG series. But per canon Gorion's ward chose mortality.

    A third factor is that "Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms" will be released in just a month. This is the Realms according to its creator, and presumably will be the authoritative FRCS. The Amazon description states "The book is aimed at all Forgotten Realms enthusiasts, including players of every edition of the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS game." So it will be interesting to see how Ed handles what was done to the Realms in 4th edition. Ed has always said that he wants the Realms to be customizable by DMs. So perhaps his FRCS doesn't box gamers in to any particular era/time. There seems to be a move afoot in Edition Next to simply provide a framework for players to design their own rules, versus telling them what the rules are. So perhaps this will be mirrored in Ed's FRCS.

    Anyway, I would be happy with either of the following:

    1) A descendant of Gorion's ward is drawn into a tale that flows from the legacy of Bhaal's plot to resurrect himself. Bhaal's essence is stored safely in the plane of Mount Celestia. Or perhaps not as safely stored as was believed.

    2) A prequel set in the Time of troubles (14 years prior to BG1) whereby we learn more of Gorion/the Harpers and other power groups as Bhaal plotted his resurrection by "sowing his mortal progeny."

    If it is the (1) then I do think that the story should at least begin in the city of Baldur's Gate. And to some extent have some follow-up on what happened to NPCs (and perhaps feature a few of their descendants).
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    I like the "going back" idea. I mean, if you've read through everything that was revealed by solar, the "prestory" before BG1 was pretty interesting... with Gorion rescuing two of the children of bhaal from being killed, leaving Sarevok behind, etc. ... I could even imagine Gorion being a companion in that kind of setting, given the fact that he was an adventurer before the time of trouble.
    The more I think about it, the more awesome this idea gets...

    As an interesting plotpoint, you could probably also encounter some of those npcs, that are of long-living races and play through parts of their backstories. Good example could be Jaheira, who should be around childhood age at that time (she joins a druid circle after having to leave some noble family when being a child according to her backstory), etc.
  • JandrikJandrik Member Posts: 1
    I agree with starting a new character at level 1, maybe with BG2 characters playing tiny cameo roles. Also agree with seeing other parts of the world, Rashemen would be great.
    I wonder if *all* of the Bhaal essence really got captured... what if there are offspring all over the place, each with such a tiny bit that they never even notice it, but in a far corner of the world there is one evil-doer who has a bit more of Bhaal, doesn't even know it, and is surprised one day when a fallen solar whisks him off to a pocket-plane to begin his training... He would learn to use his powers (slayer etc), would have to gather or slay other minor bhaalspawn (and there are thousands) to increase his own power, while at the same time fomenting rebellion in different places of the world to lead to more chaos and bloodshed.
    The mighty characters of BG2 have forsaken their Bhaal essense, and while they try to combat rebellion as much as they can, there is only so much even they can do, and they have no essence to help them find out who is now fanning the flames of chaos.
    It would take yet another minor bhaalspawn, escaping the mysterious agents who are after him/her, stopping a small uprising in their own village, and learning more about the erupting disasters all around them. Would be a great opportunity to form a party, work with Harpers and other organizations, travel different places on the world map. A brush of the evil bhaalspawn's mind into the hero's dreams offers the only clue as to what is going on, and the hero thus has the singular power that will make them the center of the tale, and eventually they will become powerful enough, and know enough of the true nature of events, that they will even be able to tell the BG2 heroes what they must do--such powerful figures would still be around, and must still have a role in the world, and this would let them still take action without dominating the story.
    Definitely agree still need to use fixed-camera etc approach as in the earlier games.
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,438
    I'm with the ones who are into a flashback, I'd love to explore Gorion and his adventures a little more, or even play as a companion of his that "just went unnamed". The ending could differ, based on the alignment, race, and class you chose...
  • Arsene_LupinArsene_Lupin Member Posts: 181
    edited September 2012
    I've argued before (on other forums) that a Baldur's Gate 3 wouldn't really work because the Baldur's Gate Trilogy has already happened--Throne of Bhaal was the third and final act. There really isn't any room for a sequel.

    Subsequent games would have to be either spin-offs, like the Dark Alliance titles, or a game that, like the NWN series, is very disconnected from the people, events and stories that made Baldur's Gate, well, Baldur's gate.

    And some gamers seem to want this. They seem to think that Baldur's Gate 3 can exist without the Bhaalspawn, without Minsc or Aerie or Viconia or Mazzy and all the rest.

    I don't. That game is Icewind Dale. That game is Dragon Age. That game is Mass Effect. That game is NOT Baldur's Gate.

    EDIT:
    That said, there is still some (very small) room for a true sequel. Basically, regardless of the personal details, ToB really only had two endings--you become a god, or you don't. A follow-up sequel could focus on the former-Charname becoming a God and going mad from it (like Cyric), or the conflict could revolve around there not being -any- God of Murder. Which... would be weird, right? People could survive getting their heads chopped off, but would die if they tripped on a root and fell at a bad angle.

    Or... something. Forgotten Realms lore is... not something I remember terribly well.

    Regardless, a sequel -could- work well if it involved the "fallout" of the Bhaalspawn war. Hell, even those details could be easily woven into the story w/ savegame transferal. Maybe have a handful of the old characters show up and play good-sized roles in the story (maybe as party members, maybe not) and simply give them dialog that changes depending on what the Charname did in SoA/ToB.

    It's the kind of thing Bioware has always claimed "too hard" to ever do in a modern game, with with text-driven Infinity Engine narratives, it seems imminently do-able.
  • ramagonsramagons Member Posts: 96
    i don't think it's that hard to imagine a bg3 with a new main character, but set in the same world. yes dark alliance was pretty bad, but it doesn't mean they couldn't make new NPCs in the post-TOB environment and have it work. either way, this is like talking about who's going to win an nba game in 5 years.
  • ZwiebelchenZwiebelchen Member Posts: 86
    edited September 2012
    Arsene_Lupin said:

    I've argued before (on other forums) that a Baldur's Gate 3 wouldn't really work because the Baldur's Gate Trilogy has already happened--Throne of Bhaal was the third and final act. There really isn't any room for a sequel.

    Subsequent games would have to be either spin-offs, like the Dark Alliance titles, or a game that, like the NWN series, is very disconnected from the people, events and stories that made Baldur's Gate, well, Baldur's gate.

    And some gamers seem to want this. They seem to think that Baldur's Gate 3 can exist without the Bhaalspawn, without Minsc or Aerie or Viconia or Mazzy and all the rest.

    I don't. That game is Icewind Dale. That game is Dragon Age. That game is Mass Effect. That game is NOT Baldur's Gate.

    That's just your personal oppinion, though. There are lots of other interesting stories that are and can be tied to the bhaalspawn saga that doesn't need to have a direct connection to the trilogy characters. Also, the time of trouble had many other stories involving other gods that are worth putting a focus on.
    Cyric for example - he just has a small cameo in TOB; but actually he has a lot of influence on the events during the time of trouble.

    Unlike you, I think that Baldurs Gate doesn't define itself through its protagonist. For me (and possibly a lot of other players) Baldur's Gate defines itself through tactical D&D combat, a setting in the forgotten realms, an epic story about gods, war and betrayal, awesome characters and beautifully drawn landscapes. None of those features prevents anyone from making an awesome sequel.

    Despite that, Icewind Dale WAS indeed some kind of Baldur's Gate. The same as Planescape Torment. IWD was just lacking a good story that puts focus on characters instead of some random threat.

    Other than that, I wouldn't mind if Baldur's Gate III wouldn't even be named BG3, as long as it feels like a BG3.
    Planescape Torment was a probably one of the most awesome games ever created. I don't mind exploring a new story... as long as it has a BGish feel to it (and probably uses the Infinity Engine :D ).
  • KaxonKaxon Member Posts: 156
    From Trent's twitter I think he made it clear BG3 won't feature the same main character. I have mixed feelings about that... it does seem like it would be really hard to make a good game with that character, but I do really hope the storyline is related and some of the same NPCs are in it, or it won't really feel like a Baldur's Gate game. I'm not really interested in a prequel, I want to see something new.
  • MilesBeyondMilesBeyond Member Posts: 324
    Less talk, more fight!
  • RedGuardRedGuard Member Posts: 672
    edited September 2012
    I could accept a new character and a new story arc, but I'd still want it very much set in the same world as the last games with returning NPC's. I think if you're going to do a 'sequel' to Baldur's Gate but want a new protagonist and story then you have to capture the feel and quality of the previous games. Otherwise you are just cashing in on the name.

    However if I had it my way I'd still want a third game that continues the story with our Bhaalspawn character. I'm sure there's a couple of loose ends from BG2 that people still want answers about.

    Also, I'm not so attached to the Infinity Engine as some are. Frankly I'd welcome the move to 3D, but keep the gameplay the same.
  • benighted_starlightbenighted_starlight Member Posts: 31
    edited September 2012
    I don't know if that has come up in any discussion and since I don't feel like checking every page of every category I'm just going to post away.

    So what do you guys think should BG III be like plot-wise, considering the finality of one of the two available player decisions at the end of ToB and most (if not all) of the epilogue stories for the rest of the NPC's/party members?
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    General consensus is that it will probably be a brand new story with a brand new protagonist, possibly in a new IP so that they don't have to jump through as many hoops with Wizards of the Coast and their affiliates.

    Personally, I want to see something in a gaslight-era setting. But that's probably because I have my own ideas for that...
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  • benighted_starlightbenighted_starlight Member Posts: 31
    But I really loved the original BG series story, I'd love to see it continue somehow and there were several twists that made me downright sad. For example Viconia.
    *SPOILER*

    What the hell?!?! I went through all that trouble with her just to have her killed at the end?! She was my favorite romance! No, it must be retconned somehow!

    *SPOILER*

    ...but then again, when you have something that good and complete as the two BG's, I guess you don't want to change the story into something that could very well ruin it, right?

    And don't you think that if they create a new setting and plot from scratch, they should use a different name? I mean marketing aside.
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    The name "Baldur's Gate III" would probably be just a project code-name until the game is developed enough to warrant a new title. Kind of like how Project Eternity is almost certainly not going to be called Project Eternity when it's done.
  • ST4TICStrikerST4TICStriker Member Posts: 162
    edited September 2012
    SPELL JAMMER!

    http://www.kraproom.com/pacman/aod/gallery/d/3787-2/spelljammer.jpg

    This is my recommendation......

    Or you know.......Dragon lance could be cool too
  • JaxsbudgieJaxsbudgie Member Posts: 600
    edited September 2012
    I'd hate to see it in anything but the Forgotten Realms setting with the Dungeons and Dragons ruleset. I know it's possibly nigh impossible, but that combination of setting and ruleset is incredible and unlike anything currently out there. Look what happens when you take both away - Dragon Age. We don't want that now do we. Especially since we've got Project Eternity approaching, BG3 needs to retain its Baldur's Gatey-ness in order to set itself out of the crowd.
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