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"Maybe this time" [NO-RELOAD THREAD]: "The Tale of TEN THOUSAND Trials"

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  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,519

    Okay, so I just hit level 6 with a Dragon Disciple and my health is 42. That's 42 out of 48.

    Either I've gotten really lucky rolls or it's much easier to get high HP rolls than in past games. My Orc Berserker is at level 5 and has 73 Health - that's 73 out of 75.

    I'm playing on core rules - I don't know if it has to be a higher difficulty for the rolls to be truly random or not. It just really seems rigged in the player's favor. I remember vanilla BG having to save and reload again and again because really crappy rolls were almost a given. It was especially hard with multiclass characters for some reason.

    But this game is the exact opposite. Did Beamdog fool around with the mechanics of leveling up? I have no problem with it if they did, believe me. Maybe this is anecdotal and others haven't had this experience.

    Personally, in PnP (AD&D), I prefer:

    1D2 (coin flip) +2 + con bonus
    1D4 +2 + con bonus
    1D6 +2 + con bonus
    1D6 +4 + con bonus
    1D6 +6 + con bonus

    Did Beamdog do something like this?

    You're not alone, the rolls are definitely skewed. I've referred to this issue a number of times in posts, but have never seen any explanation for it. It's not a simple mechanical issue, i.e. it's perfectly possible to still get minimum HP rolls. There's just a tendency for rolls to be good such that fully developed characters will virtually always have above 'average' HPs.

    StummvonBordwehrArctodusStormvesselWise_Grimwald
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    Aasim said:

    Ygramul said:


    At this point the run seems too easy.

    Famous last words :)
    .... case in point, just had to roll some saves against Symbol, Stun!

    Svifneblin Village, Balor: casts instantly, apparently, despite not having SCS-enhanced demons.

    Assuming Stun uses Spell save with -4 penalty, my saves are not high enough to succeed reliably (forgot Imp Invisibility).

    One should never roll for a save in a well played no-reload run. The Symbol got my summons and Minsc, but not charname.

    Luckily, the encounter was short thanks to Viconia's Bolt of Glory.
    She is an absolute beast! Has 75% MR and has some of the few MR-bypassing damage spells. Currently, packing a THACO of 0 with Sling of Everard (still only 1 APR, of course).


    Lesson is: don't take things for granted.


    --

    Side note: I deliberately had avoided all liches, the Flayer Lair, and the Twisted Rune in chapters 2 & 3. (Though, successfully killed a lich in the Asylum with Summon spam.) I have not yet decided, if I want to risk SCS liches upon return.

    (Kangaxx, if memory serves, can be cheesed by a berserk Minsc or by a Prot from Magic scroll. But it has been a long time since I have done it.)

    JuliusBorisovArctodus
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,059
    edited October 2017
    ..... which wasn't so bad apparently:

    Does MR stop Greater Malison? It appears to. (Thank you, Carsomyr, in this case.)
    (EDIT: maybe not. I may have not accounted the saves accurately as Diagott did not dispel my Imp Invisibility.)

    Fire immunity via items + Belt of Intertial Barrier goes a long way to mitigate damage, it seems.


    Wow! I am tanking an SCS-lich!

    Bring it, Diagot!!

    Post edited by Ygramul on
    Wise_Grimwaldlolien
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,105
    edited October 2017

    I never actually saw the Cloak of Mirroring to be of much use. I never made a strategy out of it; I just threw it on Charname so I wouldn't have to cast Protection from Magic Energy on them in the event of a Horrid Wilting spell. A better use would probably be to throw it on the party's tank and bomb them with Skull Traps, but I never saw much interest in that.

    When you think about it, a cloak that grants immunity to damage spells is not that much more powerful than a cloak that gives your mage a few extra spell slots. The only difference is that the former is not dispellable (a pretty big deal in a no-reload context, granted) and requires less maintenance.

    Agreed. Now I think about it I usually have Protection from Magic Energy on my main, that and Death Ward are my first buffs. Tough luck on that ring....

    JuliusBorisovYgramulWise_Grimwald
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 20,962
    edited October 2017
    About HP rolls, I still think it's a RNG as I definitely remember getting low HP rolls, in 2.x in particular. But let's have a look at my current party:

    Jagen, sorcerer, 15 CON, lvl 4, 16 HPs - 5 starting HPs = 11 HPs during 3 level ups i.e. 11/15
    Glod, fighter/illusionist,16 CON, lvl 3/3, 23 HPs - 9 starting HPs = 14 HPs during 4 multiclass level ups, 14/18
    Uzume, fighter/thief, 17 CON, lvl 3/4, 30 HPs - 11 starting HPs = 19 HPs during 5 multiclass level ups, 19/26
    Cochrane, archer, 14 CON, lvl 4, 32 HPs - 10 starting HPs = 22 HPs during 3 level ups, 22/30
    Sigyn, totemic druid, 15 CON, lvl 4, 33 HPs - 9 starting HPs = 24 HPs during 3 level ups, 24/27
    Dazbog, cleric/mage, lvl 3/3, 15 HPs - 6 starting HPs = 9 HPs during 4 multiclass level ups, 9/12

    So each of them got more than 'average' HPs but we have to take into account 3 characters are multiclass, and with multiclass the chances of getting overall more favourable HP total are bigger (as the roll for each 'full' level happens twice instead of once). The characters are still to get a lot of level ups before reaching the 9th level, and I have a feeling it will all even itself out in the end.

    @Grond0 Sad to see another failure! Now I'm really starting to worry about my group.

    Wise_Grimwaldlolien
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,105
    edited October 2017
    Ygramul said:

    Ygramul said:


    At this point (Underdark just started), the run seems too easy.

    GOOD

    KEEP IT THAT WAY
    Of course, what has ALWAYS happened in the past is that whenever Charname feels that confident, he manages to die in a very creative unforeseen way. (I am my biggest enemy.)

    Which is why I am actively trying to avoid keeping the charname from the front line alone. (Usually have a few summons and Minsc next to charname, with party always nearby, with AWACS services provided beforehand by Jan. I have no metagame memory beyond this point.)

    We'll see if luck will hold....
    You think it's easy/
    Then you step on a trap/
    There's no going back/
    You've lost your PC.

    etc. etc. But life on the edge is more fun :).

    Edit: Oops, didn't even see that Grond0 had just done that... commiserations.

    I am terrified as I have realised that I haven't fought vanilla Melissan in about 10 years. Went with Ascension/ SCS for awhile or didn't finish ToB due to boredom.... EE Melissan is that most terrifying of things- an unknown quantity.

    YgramulGrond0ArctodusWise_Grimwald
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,519

    The characters are still to get a lot of level ups before reaching the 9th level, and I have a feeling it will all even itself out in the end.

    I sincerely doubt it. I keep a close eye on actual vs average for all my characters and the chances of a fully developed character being below average in the EE are tiny. I would be surprised if any of your 6 characters do that and amazed if more than one does :). I agree though that the roll is still produced by a RNG, it's just that (to misquote Animal Farm) "all rolls are random, but some rolls are more random than others".

    Wise_Grimwald
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 4,134
    @Grond0 Larger parties can be distracting at times, that's for darn sure. B) I start feeling anxious just seeing more than 2 or three on the side bar traveling with me.

    AerakarWise_Grimwald
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 780
    Sounds rough there, @Grond0 Tymora did not seem to be with your group. If all your groups are like that, no wonder you are usually solo.

    JuliusBorisovWise_Grimwald
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 6,519
    @Corey_Russell I think only 1 of my runs was actually ended by the main character dying. The others I decided not to continue following chunkings. That's been the most common end to my party runs for a while now, even playing on core. Avoiding anyone going below -10 HPs is made considerably harder though by the doubled damage in LoB, so some specific assistance from Tymora probably would be handy - particularly when you can't resist taking on risky challenges :).

    JuliusBorisovAerakarWise_Grimwald
  • Corey_RussellCorey_Russell Member Posts: 780
    @Grond0 that's an insane screenshot at Durlag's, with 5/6 of the party at near death - nice job keeping everyone alive. I'm sure if I had a party like that I would have lost someone.

    JuliusBorisovGrond0StummvonBordwehrWise_Grimwald
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,418
    @StummvonBordwehr: Condolences. I had high hopes for Mage F95; I always thought a mage-fighter would be an interesting character to see in action.

    But I don't understand what happened. How did he die?

    Wise_Grimwald
  • StummvonBordwehrStummvonBordwehr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 892
    edited October 2017

    @StummvonBordwehr: Condolences. I had high hopes for Mage F95; I always thought a mage-fighter would be an interesting character to see in action.

    But I don't understand what happened. How did he die?

    @semiticgod

    Thanks. The build is super strong, and worked well. The idea was picked up in another thread... its very fun, and I would very much like to see you having a go at the build. Yout games are always an inspiration.

    I actually dont know what happened. I Think I Saw a flame strike - bit it couldnt be that alone - my HP was over 100 before the incident. My shortcummings and lack of skill is really showing off. It was an unmodded game, so nothing aught to be a surprise.

    semiticgodWise_Grimwald
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member Posts: 14,418
    I ask because, if it was damage that killed your character, there should have been a damage line directly above the death line in the dialogue box. The only other way for a death line to appeared without anything accompanying it would be if you died of stat drain (not possible unless you were drinking like 6 Potions of Stone Form), Power Word: Kill (not present anywhere in BG1 but with the Demon Knight, and using a different opcode), or an instant kill script.

    My initial guess was that you got an instant kill because the Grand Dukes died, but when I let the Grand Dukes die, all I got was a dialogue box and then I was stuck in the palace; I didn't actually die. Granted, that was in a modded game.

    Has anyone seen a death line in the dialog box that did not have a damage line directly above it?

    StummvonBordwehrWise_Grimwald
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