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Dark Dreams of Furiae - a new module for NWN:EE! Buy now
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There is no excuse this time for not upgrading the models and textures in the game.

I own the other EE's and the CE for Siege of Dragonspear.

I will not buy this EE though. That is unless the work gets put in to improve the visuals in a major way. New meshes, models, and textures. Upping the resolution and add new post-processing and shaders is not good enough.

It's time for Beamdog to let the art and graphics team show us what they've got.

WarChiefZekesmeagolheartdeserk[Deleted User]dluxSirickbob_vengAedanQueegonRAM021EldrickAbelEdvinKenjiIlphalarAduldibcorvorosso610helmo1977
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Comments

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Backward compatibility huh? What about forwards compatibility?

    If Beamdog improved the graphics then new players would be drawn in and the old players turned off by the poor graphics (such as the op and myself) would not be hesitating to purchase this.

    Investing in upgrading the graphics would pay for itself. Maybe it's expensive and time consuming in canada so hire some people in China or get students or solve the challenge.

    bob_vengdluxMrpenfold666
  • 1varangian1varangian Member Posts: 367
    So what they should do for EE is upgrade the player models and equipment to modern standards.

    Leave creatures and environments to their original state so the workload wouldn't become unrealistic for an EE.

    Any NEW content in expansion packs could use completely new monsters and environments. So the upgrade to a new level visually would be a more gradual effort.

    The game simply won't have a new life if it doesn't take an evolutionary leap. The first gen 3d graphics are simply too crude to look at.

    Let's not forget NWN still exists but players have abandoned it because it looks too dated. They won't come back and new players won't be interested if the EE doesn't leap forward.

    inethAndarianhelmo1977
  • dluxdlux Member Posts: 13
    NWN Diamond from GoG costs 8 bucks and many of us already bought it during a sale. It works perfectly fine with Windows 10 and looks exactly the same as the so called "enhanced edition". There are even community patches to fix problems with the game including multiplayer.

    I don't see any reason to buy Beamdog's re-release unless they substantially improve the graphical fidelity. You could argue that a re-release would revitalize the online community, but that is a very weak argument for somebody who has little interest in multiplayer.

    That all said, Beamdog does not give me and the bulk of the community a single satisfying reason to buy this in its current state. "Please be nice and pad out Beamdog's wallet just because lol" is not gonna cut it for me.

    sarevok57
  • MordaedilMordaedil Member Posts: 56
    Nobody is holding a gun to your head, you don't need to hold your own wallet hostage.

    mf2112ThacoBellricoyungjackjack
  • JidokwonJidokwon Member Posts: 351
    It's still very early. I do wish that BD had put together a video showing some of the things that the toolset is capable of, though. I've seen some screenshots of pretty impressive pictures of what the GOG version was capable of. Given some time, I'm sure that we'll see more screenshots and videos of what the EE version has to offer.

    Pokota
  • RaduzielRaduziel Member Posts: 4,716
    They can improve the game appearance without changing the graphics.

    One way to do so is using the skins and tilesets and placeables from Project Q and CEP.

    Adding more heads to character creation would improve the way the game looks without burdening the budget.

    They can add a sub-race system, a helluva improvement compared to the vanilla NWN without major problems.

    And the valse goes on.

    [Deleted User]DJKajuruhelmo1977
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    So updating the graphics costs the same as the gdp of a small nation huh. How are any games ever made then? How was this game's graphics created in the first place if tile based graphics are so expensive.

    It really seems like a failure of imagination or lack of motivation on Beamdogs end.

    Why is it up to the community to update the graphics or other content? It costs too much for Beamdog, so people working for free can do it right. Community content is great but should not be a crutch.

    [Deleted User]
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    smeagolheart
  • SorenSoren Member, Developer Posts: 48
    edited November 2017
    The reason that it's so expensive is that there's simply so much content to update. The original NWN had a very large budget (I seem to recall it being something like BG1 and 2 combined) and on top of that there's two expansion packs.

    You could of course update it selectively, but a drastic variation in fidelity would just look odd (in the same way it sometimes does when people import assets from other games). At least it's not forward and the actual gain isn't as given as it might seem.

    Regarding implementing the NWNQ I think there's a lot of legal implications standing in the way of that - plus, I figure it may in some cases cause some compatibility issues (though this is just me speculating). And ultimately, people can already download the NWNQ free of charge so I'd actually rather Beamdog dedicated their resources on further enabling initiatives such as the NWNQ rather than integrating them directly.

    GreenWarlock
  • InflatableFriendInflatableFriend Member Posts: 57
    Think of the existing NWN assets as a foundation. Currently they're working to shore up the foundation and prepare it for some serious building work later on.

    The focus is on getting the codebase stable, looking at new tools and looking to empower modders, PWs and module creators. So far the team looks to be very programmy/technical in nature, not orientated toward the creation of hundreds of new assets.

    The aim seems to be to bring the engine itself up to more modern standards while not breaking compatibility with existing content. The act of bringing the engine up to speed may enable more modern looking assets, but it doesn't follow that it's a wise use of funds to remake the older content.

    Beamdog have been clear that moving forward from this point new assets will look different with higher polycounts and larger texture space. While they've not announced any new packs or adventures they've certainly alluded to them.

    AndarianPokotaricoyung
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    dlux said:

    NWN Diamond from GoG costs 8 bucks and many of us already bought it during a sale. It works perfectly fine with Windows 10 and looks exactly the same as the so called "enhanced edition". There are even community patches to fix problems with the game including multiplayer.

    It doesn't work fine for everyone on Windows 10. For example, it doesn't work fine for me. I'd rather get a new game that's compatible with modern systems than fuss with video driver versions and other stuff to make it work right on my PC.

    So updating the graphics costs the same as the gdp of a small nation huh. How are any games ever made then? How was this game's graphics created in the first place if tile based graphics are so expensive.

    Well, you see, there are publishers and investers and triple A games, and there are indie developers and indie games, and one of these has lower budgets than the other, and Beamdog doesn't do triple A at this point, soooo they don't get the big budgets.

    Also, Neverwinter Nights has more graphic resources than the majority of games, simply due to the sheer amount of everything added over time in patches and expansion packs.

    It really seems like a failure of imagination or lack of motivation on Beamdogs end.

    Of course it does, because you want a particular feature and you're not getting it... so naturally it must be malfeasance and not budgetary/time restrictions. After all, one of those is defensible and the other isn't...so pick the one that makes you look like you have the moral high ground?

    Why is it up to the community to update the graphics or other content? It costs too much for Beamdog, so people working for free can do it right. Community content is great but should not be a crutch.

    Community content is the entire point of Neverwinter Nights, though.

    And it isn't up to the community to update the graphics, that's just where you're going to get graphics updates if they happen at all because Beamdog can't afford to do it.

    ThacoBellmegamike15Andarian
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Shandaxx said:

    So updating the graphics costs the same as the gdp of a small nation huh. How are any games ever made then? How was this game's graphics created in the first place if tile based graphics are so expensive.

    It really seems like a failure of imagination or lack of motivation on Beamdogs end.

    Why is it up to the community to update the graphics or other content? It costs too much for Beamdog, so people working for free can do it right. Community content is great but should not be a crutch.

    More importantly I am wondering who would do the work worth of a small nation's GDP for free?

    By the way could someone provide an example for such a nation? I'd like to see some numbers.
    Are we talking about millions here? No, it's billions, isn't it?

    Let's see:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Luxembourg

    Is Luxembourg small enough? So the statement is that updating the graphics of Neverwinter Nights would cost more than $50 billions?
    Tuvalu was 36 million. statisticstimes.com/economy/countries-by-projected-gdp.php

    I guess it would make a difference in the price for the game. A certain number of people will buy the game at the $20 price point. A smaller number of people would buy the game at a $40 price point. It would also take longer to release.

    [Deleted User]AndarianPokotaricoyung
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    smeagolheart
  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    edited November 2017
    Shandaxx said:

    @BelleSorciere

    I think you are being very aggressive here. Would you please tone down your aggression a bit?

    I think people have to evaluate what is more important for them, graphics or the multiplayer experience. And the multiplayer experience can very well be worth it. There is nothing wrong though with wishing for better graphics.

    I think people are being very aggressive in their demands for a too-expensive graphical update. And apparently people are unable to take no for an answer. People aren't wishing for better graphics, they're demanding them and trying to pick the explanation as to why it's not possible apart. And that "people" includes you, given your aggressive commentary about GDP.
    Shandaxx said:


    Then think about how your posts contribute to putting a stop to the "back and forth"?

    I don't want expensive work from Beamdog for free. Throughout the years I have supported them. As you can see I bought the SoD Collector's Edition and SoD normal edition to show my support.
    For years I have helped Beamdog with beta testing as you can tell by my forum badges.
    And I did help a little bit with translations as a volunteer.

    So how much do you want to pay for the graphics overhaul you think is so necessary? Where is the money going to come from to fund it in the first place?

    Andarian
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • BelleSorciereBelleSorciere Member Posts: 2,125
    edited November 2017
    Shandaxx said:


    Thank you for that matter-of-fact reply. Notice the difference in this reply to accusing me of fixating on attempting to tear Trent Oster's quote apart.

    Well, that happened because you fixated on Trent Oster's quote and attempted to tear it apart.

    I mean if you don't want anyone to point out you're doing something, then maybe don't do it? IDK, it just seems like a logical step.

    Andarian
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Sirick said:

    All I can say, I know that personally a bump in graphics would make me buy the game, a game I already own multiple originals of and digital versions of. Five friends who like me have sunk months, possibly years into NWN all said when I told them of the EE "Oh cool, so they are going to improve the models and stuff? No. Oh, well I'm not going to buy it then". And I've heard many people voice similar opinions here on the forums, other gaming forums, Youtube and so on.

    End of the day Beamdog will do the least work for the most money, that's just how it works. But I know they are missing out on sales by not bumping up graphics in any visually striking way. If they decide those sales are not worth the cost of working on improved graphics, that's that.

    But would be nice if they did. Just saying. And I think others who are just saying, are letting it known what's important to them, which surely Beamdog would want to hear, even if it's not -what- they want to hear.

    I don't think BeamDog has any pre-planned list of -what- they want to hear or don't want to hear. This is really a matter is simple economics and scale. I am sure BeamDog did some type of cost analysis on this versus projected time to complete versus earnings and decided that there just weren't going to be enough additional sales to cover the graphics updates versus the other things they did instead. I am quite sure that if BeamDog felt that there were going to be enough additional sales to cover the extra effort and development time that they would have done it. They aren't going to leave easy money on the table. And it won't be easy money, it would be very hard to remake all of the graphics and possibly wouldn't make enough money to cover to effort which BeamDog can't afford to do being a small company.

    If BeamDog sees huge numbers of people here requesting graphics improvements then maybe the equation changes.

    BelleSorciere[Deleted User]mlnevesericoyung
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