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The LoB + SCS Solo Challenge and the Tales of IWDification

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Comments

  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,197
    edited January 2018

    With Skels on your side the first dungeon in SoA will be easy going @histamiini. :D

    You're right, 5 hasted Skelis absolutely destroyed everybody in Irenicus dungeon, and doing so netter cool 190k xp from the get go. Now that I'm out, I'm thinking farming xp somehow.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    The Skels will remain useful until the end @histamiini. Korgath my Bounty Hunter for instance used them to tank Amelyssan long enough so he could stunlock her with Wand of Paralyzation. Great summons!! :)

    Krell will also continue farming XP until at least level 9 is reached. I am quite confident that this time Sarevok might go down with the new strategy. IF Krell manages to get this far. At the moment i am already calculating how many tries will be needed to reach SoA - especially with regard to Big B. This battle is pure luck and - so far - i cannot find any viable "risk free" way. However: Lets concentrate on the immediate threats! :D

    The Sirene areas have been cleared and after some more questing in the south and - maybe - some more Ankhegs in the north level 9 seems to be in reach soon! ;)

    histamiiniStummvonBordwehr
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,197
    edited January 2018
    @Harpagornis Yeah, these are only 3rd best Skelis and they seem to rip through everything already.

    Freed Slaves in Copper Coronet - 75k xp, Beastmaster minions lured 1by1 to killing zone of 5 hasted Skelis
    Find Wellyn's Teddy Bear - 21k xp, 5 hasted Skelis
    Nevin - 7.5k xp, 5 hasted Skelis
    Den of Seven Vales upstairs, 5 hasted Skelis first killed the mage, rest, another pack killed the assassin, Orcslicer killed couple of his own :D , rest, lastly another pack took Orcslicer down
    Also started Maevar, and Harper Hold quests, and already made enough money to buy Robe of Vecna for some glorious casting
    The Circus Quest - 106k xp, lured enemies on to me, invisibility, other side room, cast Skelis, 4 skelis were enough

    HarpagornisArctodusGrond0StummvonBordwehr
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    Arcanella was doing real great, until she met her untimely end...

    Last time I talked about her, she was in Baldur's Gate. She blew pass the rest of the game without a problem. Invisibility and Wand of Monster Summoning were beating the game by themselves. Actually, with Monster Summoning I and Spider Spawn, she could create her own little army. Buffed up with Haste, the spiders were absolutely deadly. If an enemy failed a few saves against death, the poison would chew through them easily.

    She went through the Ice Island, only fighting the dude with the Stoneskin scroll. He failed his save against wand of Paralyzation and was killed soon after. Neeto.

    After that, the Ogre Mage ambush was completely avoided by going out of the map with the boots of speed. I went back in Candlekeep under invisilibility and didn't fight anybody in here. I got out of the Catacombs under invis.

    I then went straight to Slythe, who easily died to my spiders and a few other critters (those are awesome on LoB, really).

    The Ducal Palace fight was also really smooth. I charmed the Doppleganger Mage beforehand to alleviate a bit of pressure on this fight. I first casted invisibility on Liia Jannath to keep her safe when the fight started. Then, a steady flow of monsters took care of everything. When all the doppies were dead, I used Control-T to advance time, so the charm effect on the Doppleganger Mage would dissipate. He was also killed by a bunch of summons.

    Hidden by invis, I went through the Maze without a fight. A simple potion of Absorption made me immune to those nasty lightning traps near the two Skeleton Warriors. I went straight into the last fight. I triggered those guys up, waited for Diarmid's scroll of Prot from Magic to dissipate and bombed them away with fireballs. Diarmid, Tazok and Semaj all died. I lured Sarevok and his skellies in a corner and drank an invis potion. Everything was super smooth.

    Then, I was looking for Angelo, who was invis. I saw him cast PfMW, so I knew he was around, but he refused to show up. I broke my invis by talking to myself and he appeared. I decided to use one of my scroll of Prot from Magic, but Angelo used a wand of Lightning that managed to hit me juuuust before my own scroll went up. I failed my save and stupidly died.

    I had absolutely no prebuff in this fight, because I was using none for the whole run : prebuffs (outside of a healthy dose of invis) were mostly not necessary up to that point. Seriously, it was not really hard run compared to the fighter types I tried before. Only carelessness did me in.

    I redid the fight and everything went ok that time. When all his acolytes were down, Sarevok was kited with Boots and Speed and Haste potions. The damage was done with the wand of Fire - not with the fireballs but with the scorcher charges. He eventually fell. It also seems that I'm becoming a staunch no reloader, because I kinda feel not ok continuing the run. I don't know, we'll see. I would have liked to try Big B with a pure mage, because that's the only hurdle I see in SoD. With a crapton of Skull traps precasted before the fights (by hoarding all the scrolls I could for this), I think that even the Coalition Camp attack would have been doable. I'm just not sure how much scrolls there is though, but I believe that it would have made those fights a lot more manageable. Add in the steady stream of monsters and fireballs wands can produce and I think it's fair to say that this fight would have been doable. However, at the end of the day, it's a bit of a moot point, because I don't think I will continue this run. I also have another idea for a regular no-reload playthrough, so I guess I won't be in this challenge for at least a few weeks.

    Grond0HarpagornisStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    Unlucky end @Arctodus - died in similar fashion against Angelo once. Too bad you are not going to continue or - at least - testing your Mage setup against Big B! ;)

    The Skels were one reason why i tried to get a Cleric through @histamiini - too bad i always failed against the Crusaders so far. And too bad i still dont like Mages that much. :D

    Krell reached level 9 and started the main quest. Mulahey refused to get parayzed this time and called his guards in - but it doesnt saved him from a quick death. Still invisible Krell grabbed the documents and sneaked out. After killing the Durlag Basilisks level 10 is near - with maxed out spirit summons the bandit camp should be no big deal. ;)

    P.S. Maybe we should add another restriction called "no summons" cause so far its rather clear: Summons rule the world! :D

    ArctodusStummvonBordwehrhistamiiniGrond0
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,197
    edited January 2018
    @Arctodus Damn, I also wanted to see Mage vs Bel. Some of my runs, Angelo doesn't even agro, must be something to do with how you hit him with the WoF, so basically you don't even have to see any of the five when you kill them. And he's always been in the upper left region for me.

    @Harpagornis Illusionist would also get 5 Skelis in level 12.

    Six, or more precisely never ending 5 hasted Skelis cleared the sewers in the temple district, six only helped against the Tarnor mob with some Cloudkills. Got some nice items, including Wyvern's Tail +2 and Cloak of Sewers.

    HarpagornisArctodusStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    Krell let his summons kill Tranzig and moved on to the bandit camp. There Taurgosz was nearly instakilled with Call Lightning while the level 10 Spirit Lions lured Vankt, Raemon and Co away from the tent so Krell could sneak in. If you do not move them away from the tent the named ones and Elites will reenter it once you lose invisibilty after opening the chest (this had killed Krell in earlier tests!).

    In this run Krell had enough time going invisible again before the first bandits entered the tent (if you are too slow they will block the exit!). I dont like this tactic as any mistiming will lead to a swift death. Maybe i should slaughter the whole camp next time. :D

    Fun fact: Lamallha has improved her ambush in my last runs. Nearly all the time she is now guarded by other monsters as Hobgoblins, Spiders or - in this case - Gibberlings. However: As i lost invisibility during the travel it was quite tricky moving through enemy lines and Krell got hit two times before reaching the map border with 73 HP. With bad luck one of the assassins might have catched him:

    histamiiniArctodus
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    Thats interesting @histamiini cause in my installation Angelo always starts to hunt me whenever he gets hit by anything he does not see. And his starting position is also random (west or east) as he switches places with Diarmid from time to time. ;)

    histamiiniArctodus
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,365
    I have a decent formula for an Archer/Mage but I'm not sure how to get enough gold to keep my wands charged and also dual-class:

    1. Get Ring of Wizardry and Ankheg Plate. Sell both for 11,500 gold.
    2. Buy 4 Stone to Flesh scrolls in Nashkel. Gold at 10,600.
    3. Buy Protection from Petrification scroll at carnival. Gold at 9,700.
    4. Buy 3 Potions of Mirrored Eyes and scrolls of Invisibility, Friends, Shield, Identify, and Protection from Petrification. Gold at 7,000.
    5. Buy 19 Stone to Flesh scrolls at Beregost. Gold at 2,725.
    6. Get Algernon's Cloak and go to Mutamin's Garden.
    7. Drink Potion of Mirrored Eyes/Invisibility.
    8. Attempt to charm basilisk. If unsuccessful, run away, rest, and go to step 7.
    9. If successful, start basilisk XP loop.
    10. Dual-class at level 8 and continue XP loop until level 5. Scribe scrolls.
    11. Use Potion of Freedom to safely get Wand of Monster Summoning.
    12. Loot ankheg stash with Invisibility, loot Beregost manor with Invisibility, and kill Silke with Algernon's Cloak.

    This leaves me with a level 5 mage for the rest of BG1, 8 charges in a Wand of Monster Summoning, and 5000-6000 gold. I've done the math and I don't think I can get a reliable profit by ankheg farming using the wand; the cost of recharging the wand (375 gold per charge) seems too high and the 500 gold reward from killing an ankheg seems too low for the exchange to be worth it, because it looks like I'd need two charges to reliably kill an ankheg.

    HarpagornisStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    edited January 2018
    @semiticgod One charge of the WofMS is sufficient to kill an ankheg. If you're lucky, one charge could net you two kills if you get good summons and you get interrupted by another ankheg while sleeping.

    However, this is not the best way to get money, you're right. With invis, you could also raid :

    - the Pirate's Cave (on Safana's map)
    - Ulcaster School (you probably need a potion of invis there because the Wolf of Ulcaster is really close. Jaheira got one, so kill her);
    - Kill Bassilus for a 5000 gold.

    With all that, you should be really close to a WofMS recharge. If not, don't forget Durlag's Tower : there's easy loot to get there. All of these should be enough.

    semiticgodHarpagornisStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,365
    @Arctodus: Do summons get the +5 THAC0, +5 to saves, and +1 to APR from LoB mode, or just the double HP plus 20 on top? My calculations assumed they didn't.

  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    My Spirit Summons get +5 THAC0, +1 APR and double HP plus 20 - but for whatever reason no Saving Throw bonus @semiticgod! ;)

    semiticgodStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • ArctodusArctodus Member Posts: 996
    edited January 2018
    I'm not entirely sure of what bonus they get, but I think that they receive *at least* the x2+20 hp bonus plus the 12 level bonus from LoB. What I'm sure from experience is that summons hit very often on LoB enemies. Pretty sure they don't get the APR bonus, but, when hasted, they tear through everything. As an illusionist, I didn't have access to Skellies summons, but spiders were doing a wonderful job, because the frickin' poison damage stacks. At 5 points of damage per round, If one enemy fails something like 4 save in a few rounds (which actually happens more often than you might think), they'll lose hp very, very fast.

    Seriously, all you need to beat BG1 on LoB and SCS with a mage is a fully charged WofMS and Invisibility. That's it. I also had a fully charged wand of Paralyzation, but it was largely irrelevant, because all I had to do is create an army of summons (either through wands or spells), haste them and let them do the job. With a pure mage, my damage output was pretty meek in BG1, so I could support my toons with things like Chaos or the beautiful and overpowered level 1 Blind spell (the latter carried me through the first part of the game, since I don't use the Basilisks xp-loop). Add also a fully charged wand of Fire and you're good to go. Your 8 level of archers are going to be the sugar on top of it, because of the crazy utility arrows will give you.

    Harpagornishistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    Potion of Mirroring is not needing when charming the Basilisks @semiticgod as the charm breaks only when the spell applies. This gave me always enough time to to retreat safely.

    Thalantyrs invisibilty cast is always an option and will save you potions for later!

    Selling some of Drizzts items will also give a nice gold boost.

    ArctodussemiticgodStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    Krell had some fun with Davaeorn...

    Too bad Farsight + Domination did not work this time so Krell triggered the traps, rested once and called in his summons to trigger the talking and quickly retreat to the stairs again - not getting CC´d this time. Davaeorn did not follow - which was a big fault. Cause the guards got stopped near the entance by the Spirit Bears and - as they engaged them in melee - even the Elite Archers stopped shooting and switched to their normal swords. This left the Spirit Bears untouchable by all guards and even though more and more streamed in the bears managed to kill all but four before they vanished again.

    Another rest followed to start the final attack - this time two Spirit Wolves and three Nymphs. Davaeorn tried his best to get rid of the summons - but failed. Thanks to their cold damage they managed to disrupt his spellcasting a lot so it was only a matter of time before the cutscence triggered. Job done!

    Baldurs Gate is calling again!

    Grond0ArctodusStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 5,236

    My Spirit Summons get +5 THAC0, +1 APR and double HP plus 20 - but for whatever reason no Saving Throw bonus @semiticgod! ;)

    The mechanic for the save bonus is a bit different - does that explain it? The THAC0, APR and HP adjustments are applied to the base stats, so you can see those in the character record. The save bonus though is applied as an adjustment to the actual saving roll rather than the base stats (which is why you very often see enemies saving with rolls of over 20).

    semiticgodStummvonBordwehrhistamiiniHarpagornis
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,197
    edited January 2018
    @semiticgod What kind of run are you doing? I never have had problem with money in BG1, there's enough loot to have and invisibility helps a lot. Last Fighter/Illusionist run I had 60 or so detonation arrows, 2 fully charged WoF (before Sarevok), full WoMS and two full Necklaces, Sandthief ring, and still had like 30k in jewels for SoD.

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornis
  • semiticgodsemiticgod Member, Moderator Posts: 13,365
    @histamiini: Minimal sidequesting run. I don't want to have to dig deep in every corner of BG1 to properly fund the run. I want to get through BG1 and SoD as quickly as possible so I can move on to BG2, where I would be in my element. No Durlag's Tower or Balduran's Isle, maybe half the world map visited, and just the barest skimming of side quests.

    histamiiniHarpagornis
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,197
    edited January 2018
    @semiticgod Four biggest payouts I think are killing Bassilus (5k+), Davaeorn (10k+), Sunin in Baldur's Gate for another Ring of Wizardy (9k+), and Tamoko for her gear (6k+ +Magma Bulwark besides her). That's easy 30k+.

    StummvonBordwehrHarpagornissemiticgod
  • histamiinihistamiini Member Posts: 1,197
    edited January 2018
    Found the first Skeli resistant enemies. The Bard guest Yuanti's in sewers, who used death spells. So I cleared the area and left them be. Shadow Thieves attacked me in Bridge District, and decided to introduce Skelis to them, but when I hasted them the Cowled Enforcers appeared and destroyed them, because this was the second time I casted in Athkatla. I had 6 Sanctuary's and many invisibility potions so I decided to deplete their spells, but after some time they just vanished. Went to buy the Magic License, but at 10k, no thanks.

    The money had much better purpose for Vhailor's Helm and couple PfU's, so it was time to do some lich hunting. Used Chaotic Commands and PfU on both bridge and sewers liches, and they offered no resistance. Made Simulacrum cast PfU on me before going in, and then I casted PfU on the City Gates lich, and he could do nothing. Not the time for Kangaxx yet, as I can't wield the Daystar, but soon when I can conjure up 13k for the Staff of Rynn.

    HarpagornisArctodusStummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    After reading about your first Yuan-Ti Mage encounter @histamiini: Beware of the Planar Prison then. The Yuan-Ti around there can be very, very annoying and will shred summons like there is no tomorrow. But i think you know that! Keep on going! ;)

    semiticgodhistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    This game is cheating me...

    I started fighting Sarevok the usual way: 4x Dispel Magic to get rid of haste and invisibility, then move Tazok and Semaj in vision to start Doom + Charm Person. Look what happened so far:

    1. Doom + Charm not working
    2. Doom + Charm not working
    3. Doom + Charm not working
    4. Doom + Charm not working
    5. Doom + Charm not working
    6. Doom + Charm not working
    7. Semaj still invisible
    8. Doom + Charm not working
    9. Semaj still invisible
    10. Tazok still invisible
    11. Doom + Charm not working
    12. Doom + Charm not working
    13. Doom + Charm not working
    14. Doom + Charm not working
    15. Doom + Charm not working
    16. Semaj still invisible
    17. Doom + Charm not working
    18. Misclicked Summon Nymph
    19. Doom + Charm not working
    20. Doom + Charm not working
    21. Doom + Charm not working
    22. Doom + Charm not working
    23. Doom + Charm not working
    24. Doom + Charm not working
    25. Doom + Charm not working

    Twenty rounds where Charm Person was not working. Thats 6x 20 = 120 Charm Person. With LoB bonus and Doom malus Semaj has Save vs Spell 2 so there should still be a small chance for success. But so far: Nope!

    And now comes the joke: Just for fun Krell summoned a Nymph to test Mental Domination. And yes – you all know it – the Nymph succceded on the very first try. Damn it. I will need the Nymph for later so: Rest and repeat!!! B)

    EDIT: With Charm Person bonus (+3) it should be impossible to charm Semaj but - holy cow - why has it worked in the past?

    Post edited by Harpagornis on
    ArctodusStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 282

    I started fighting Sarevok the usual way: 4x Dispel Magic to get rid of haste and invisibility

    Might have missed this but are you casting Dispel Magic from scrolls? How is it that it works? Normal spell cast at level should have no chance of working. I know scrolls are fixed level but I think it was still way too low for it to work. Nymphs don't have dispel magic... hmm tell me your secrets.

  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    Sarevoks Haste is - like @semiticgod stated - L10 as its potion based. Seems the same for Semaj´s + Tazok´s invisibilty @Myrag! ;)

    MyragStummvonBordwehrArctodushistamiini
  • MyragMyrag Member Posts: 282

    Sarevoks Haste is - like @semiticgod stated - L10 as its potion based. Seems the same for Semaj´s + Tazok´s invisibilty @Myrag! ;)

    Ach yes I've read this before and somehow forgot about it even though it it's actually quite big for me. I always thought until now that recipient level matters not the level of a caster level buff (in this case potion level or in future scrolls).

    I shall remember this now!

    Grond0StummvonBordwehr
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    Gack... grarrh... i am so tired... :(

    This %)"(&?!?($! fight. Everything went fine until the four Nymphs tried to dominate Diarmid - and failed. All of them. Damn it. Even worse: The AI somehow has changed its behaviour as Angelo is now nearly always using his shadow doors to port up to Krell when Tazok and Semaj went down. That is really annoying...

    Sarevok alone - if you manage to get this far - is still a lot of work and he only needs one or two hits two finish Krell. With undispellable haste like @semiticgod uses this one would be impossible. To make it short: I fear that going for no-reload that early was a fault. Sarevok - and Big B even more - would need countless reloads alone - not to mention all the potential slips in between.

    Therefore i think its better - at least for now - to continue with reloads after Krell somehow managed to survive with 1 HP in my last try. Or maybe i will try another class to get more insight. What about Beastermaster/Cleric? Yeah, Big B would be the end without Rage! Or the Crusader Attacks. Or Sarevok. Is the Sorcerer at the end the only viable alternative to the Totemic Druid? I hate Sorcerers! :D

    ArctodusStummvonBordwehrhistamiini
  • HarpagornisHarpagornis Member Posts: 1,496
    edited January 2018
    The longer i think the worse the poverty concept gets with regard to this challenge. Yeah, i have seen some people completing the whole series (without SoD) solo on insane in the past but with LoB and SCS (plus SoD) on board the level of difficulty has reached the sky or - with regard to no reloads - the border of the universe. :D

    Therefore i adapted the rules for the beggar´s path a bit:

    1. The main character has to play solo without any NPC´s.
    2. You are allowed to use gold only for quest purposes but not for items or services.
    3. Equipping items - unless for quest related stuff - is not allowed but you are able to use items from your inventory like scribing scrolls or drinking a potion. Exception: You can use the starting Quarterstaff who is for good reason also called the beggar's staff. Equipping shapeshifting tokens for Druids is ok as they are innate abilities as well as equipping temporary items that are created by spells like Flame Blade, Shillelag and so on.

    This allows Mages to learn spells and will open up protections some classes lack otherwise.
    For instance: Potion of Clarity to cancel fear against Big B or getting haste against enmies like Sarevok.

    What do you guys think? Is this enough to make the challenge more interesting? Should we add quickslot items? Maybe allowing one weapon to make Fighter types a bit more viable? What about a special exception regarding weapons for specific enemies like Big B? Or is all of this destroying the whole poverty concept? ;)

    EDIT: As the main character always starts with a Quarterstaff we might allow him to use this weapon only or - against enemies immune to normal weapons - switch over to Quarterstaff +X. At least the starting Quarterstaff would not interfere with "you are not not allowed to equip items" as its already there. Good idea? Bad idea?

    Post edited by Harpagornis on
    StummvonBordwehrhistamiini
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