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The Candlekeep Library: Dorn Il-Khan

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Comments

  • darrenkuodarrenkuo Member Posts: 366
    I am still waiting when I can see the actual gameplay video which show zoom in/out capability and graphic effects

  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    Arcalian said:

    Okay now we are officially wayyyyyyyyyyyy past the nonsense of the "Neera is too American" nonsense.

    Also, I forgot to make this joke: Dorn Il-KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

    Saying that good/evil are relative notion in our society is nonsense? Yeah right.

  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 357

    Arcalian said:

    Okay now we are officially wayyyyyyyyyyyy past the nonsense of the "Neera is too American" nonsense.

    Also, I forgot to make this joke: Dorn Il-KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

    Saying that good/evil are relative notion in our society is nonsense? Yeah right.
    Oh, the troll is talking to me! Yes, troll, murder is not a "relative notion". Thank you for playing.

    QuartzseekaGodKaiserHell
  • GueulEclatorGueulEclator Member Posts: 175
    Arcalian said:

    Arcalian said:

    Okay now we are officially wayyyyyyyyyyyy past the nonsense of the "Neera is too American" nonsense.

    Also, I forgot to make this joke: Dorn Il-KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

    Saying that good/evil are relative notion in our society is nonsense? Yeah right.
    Oh, the troll is talking to me! Yes, troll, murder is not a "relative notion". Thank you for playing.
    You look like a fellow troll too then. I'm not asking about an act that is shunned by everyone in our society, I'm asking you to give a clear definition of evil in our society. A clear one.
    You won't be able. Because good/evil is the most relative option on earth, and depends on each culture/religion/individuals.

    It's not the same thing in a fiction world like the forgotten realm, because there the author can take the liberty of creating his own definition on evil based on his moral standards.

  • ScooterScooter Member Posts: 182

    Arcalian said:

    Arcalian said:

    Okay now we are officially wayyyyyyyyyyyy past the nonsense of the "Neera is too American" nonsense.

    Also, I forgot to make this joke: Dorn Il-KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

    Saying that good/evil are relative notion in our society is nonsense? Yeah right.
    Oh, the troll is talking to me! Yes, troll, murder is not a "relative notion". Thank you for playing.
    You look like a fellow troll too then. I'm not asking about an act that is shunned by everyone in our society, I'm asking you to give a clear definition of evil in our society. A clear one.
    You won't be able. Because good/evil is the most relative option on earth, and depends on each culture/religion/individuals.

    It's not the same thing in a fiction world like the forgotten realm, because there the author can take the liberty of creating his own definition on evil based on his moral standards.
    Fair call, however, a reader will, in the same way, take away their interpretation of what is evil based on their own standards and therefore judge and respond to the "evil" characters accordingly. However this is different because AD&D as @Nathan has pointed out has a reasonably clear definition of what is 'Neutral Evil' which Dorn seems to fit into almost perfectly.

  • kamuizinkamuizin Member Posts: 3,684
    edited September 2012
    I told he would ask the question again XD!

    What you say @GueulEclator is pure syllogism. Yes, you're right solely in your affirmative that each culture/religion/individual in the world will define a concept of right/wrong, good/evil, but no one just wake one day and think "hey, now in my country/religion or my personal moral says that kill in cold blood is ok".

    The fact that each person/religion/government is entitled to create his/her/it's own moral and ethic code, inside a limit called international treaties and conventions for countries and religions and law to individuals (that you're intensely trying to bypass), doesn't mean that good sense doesn't exist anymore.

    So to end, try to avoid fallacies and syllogism to justify your points if you want to be taken serious.

    dosentti666Quartzseeka
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 357
    edited September 2012


    You look like a fellow troll too then. I'm not asking about an act that is shunned by everyone in our society, I'm asking you to give a clear definition of evil in our society. A clear one.
    You won't be able. Because good/evil is the most relative option on earth, and depends on each culture/religion/individuals.

    It's not the same thing in a fiction world like the forgotten realm, because there the author can take the liberty of creating his own definition on evil based on his moral standards.

    Murder is evil. Is that clear enough? I gave it; you ignored it. And there's nothing relative about it, in this culture or any other. Certainly not in the Forgotten Realms either. Even adventurers don't kill people in cold blood, or as revenge for an insult to their dignity, as happened to Dorn.

    You are, of course, perfectly aware of this. You try to be some sort of moral relativist because you have no argument to make otherwise. I also saw the post you deleted. Your question has been answered, several times; you simply refuse to acknowledge it. You are, thus, a troll. Thanks for playing, once more.



    dosentti666Quartz
  • lordkimlordkim Member Posts: 1,063
    Dudes come´on... Youre f****** ruining the topic with this evil shit.. Make another topic instead..

    Quartz
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    Yeah, it really would suck if @Tanthalas had to close an announcement thread. There's already a thread discussing the alignments of the characters.

    Quartz
  • neur0neur0 Member Posts: 83
    I don't think Dorn is "not evil enough" but the dialogue....
    Voice acting is obviously great, but the dialogue is... well, way too academic for a half-orc who grew up with orcs.
    The sound of his voice is saying - "silence! I kill you" but the tone is more like "He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

    Whats up with that?

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,308
    neur0 said:

    I don't think Dorn is "not evil enough" but the dialogue....
    Voice acting is obviously great, but the dialogue is... well, way too academic for a half-orc who grew up with orcs.
    The sound of his voice is saying - "silence! I kill you" but the tone is more like "He who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words good."

    Whats up with that?

    Maybe he's a Forgotten Realms evil Joseph Ducreux, lol.


  • Agent_WAgent_W Member Posts: 4
    I never rolled a Blackguard before. What kind of abilities do they have?

  • gesellegeselle Member Posts: 325
    Really such short stories should exist for every character

    Itomon
  • ramagonsramagons Member Posts: 96
    i am genuinely disconcerted that his feelings toward his mother mirror my own so perfectly.

    am...am I neutral evil?

    MortiannaRisingsunKenji
  • ArcalianArcalian Member Posts: 357
    Hey, I'd much rather talk about how awesome Dorn is, rest assured.

  • ramagonsramagons Member Posts: 96
    Arcalian said:

    Hey, I'd much rather talk about how awesome Dorn is, rest assured.

    On that note, I contend that murdering someone who uses a euphemism about their personal urination counts as morally ambiguous, and quite possibly a legal gray area.

    Mortianna
  • deserkdeserk Member Posts: 35
    edited September 2012
    This was a really cool read. Dorn's a badass. Should make a novel out of him. =D

  • Kitteh_On_A_CloudKitteh_On_A_Cloud Member Posts: 1,629
    Guys, stop calling each other trolls just because you disagree with each other. Let's not turn this into one or the other pointless moralistic discussio, ok? Thanks. :)

  • typo_tillytypo_tilly Member Posts: 5,702
    He seems plenty evil to me. I had sympathy for him until he killed two people who only insulted him. Also, the attack from behind thing... little bastard. Wonder what he'll end up doing in the years before meeting the PC.

    My 'good' party is guilty of routinely escalating bar fights and fights with other adventurers over pride and insults - but I've never killed the nobleman who says I smell. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, really. :|

    And more evil characters for BG2 please! :D There's, what, 3 evil characters in SoA?
    Arcalian said:

    Okay now we are officially wayyyyyyyyyyyy past the nonsense of the "Neera is too American" nonsense.

    Also, I forgot to make this joke: Dorn Il-KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

    ... and that was terrible :p
    XD

  • SamuelVargSamuelVarg Member Posts: 598
    Don't forget that he (with the highest probability) is a Bhaalspawn. Murder lives in his soul.

  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    There is nothing suggesting he would be a Bhaalspawn.

    Quartzkamuizin
  • GrayvieGrayvie Member Posts: 49
    edited September 2012
    @SamuelVarg:
    The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.

    Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,308
    Grayvie said:

    @SamuelVarg:
    The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.

    Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.

    I believe Bhaal was actually able to assume any form he wished to sire his mortal progeny. At least according to canon, IIRC. Yaga-shura is an example of that.

    SamuelVargQuartz
  • SamuelVargSamuelVarg Member Posts: 598
    I will bet my left butt-cheek that he is a Bhaalspawn. There should be a new story connected to that and he is a very good candidate.

  • SamuelVargSamuelVarg Member Posts: 598
    Grayvie said:

    @SamuelVarg:
    The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.

    Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.

    We have Bhaalspawns that are Halc-Orcs, Giants, Human/Dragons and so on...

    Quartz
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072

    I will bet my left butt-cheek that he is a Bhaalspawn. There should be a new story connected to that and he is a very good candidate.

    As I said above, there is absolutely no reason to assume so. He shares a name with a Bhaalspawn, but that is irrelevant.

    Grayvie said:

    @SamuelVarg:
    The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.

    Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.

    We have Bhaalspaw

    ns that are Halc-Orcs, Giants, Human/Dragons and so on...
    Grayvie does not mean Bhaalspawn have to be human, he is referring to the way Bhaal has been assumed to take on the race or species of the mother when getting siring his progeny. Hence a half-orc (or half-elf) would have had a half-orc (or half-elf) mother. This practice is only relevant when explaning the PC's race, though, and there's no reason Bhaal couldn't have taken an orc form when "seducing" an NPC's human female mother. Unless his childmaking was more of the "Divine Spirit visit" kind rather than physical, I guess.

  • SamuelVargSamuelVarg Member Posts: 598
    scriver said:

    I will bet my left butt-cheek that he is a Bhaalspawn. There should be a new story connected to that and he is a very good candidate.

    As I said above, there is absolutely no reason to assume so. He shares a name with a Bhaalspawn, but that is irrelevant.

    Grayvie said:

    @SamuelVarg:
    The story clearly tells us that Il-Khan is a name of an orcish tribe and not a family name. The only connection Dorn has to Gromnir is that they probably were raised together in the same tribe.

    Dorn's mother is human so the only way for him to be a half-orc is to have an orcish father (who was also mentioned in the short story). There is not a slightest chance that Dorn is a bhaalspawn. If he was a bhaalspawn he would've been human.

    We have Bhaalspaw

    ns that are Halc-Orcs, Giants, Human/Dragons and so on...
    Grayvie does not mean Bhaalspawn have to be human, he is referring to the way Bhaal has been assumed to take on the race or species of the mother when getting siring his progeny. Hence a half-orc (or half-elf) would have had a half-orc (or half-elf) mother. This practice is only relevant when explaning the PC's race, though, and there's no reason Bhaal couldn't have taken an orc form when "seducing" an NPC's human female mother. Unless his childmaking was more of the "Divine Spirit visit" kind rather than physical, I guess.
    My point exactly. Bhaal must have taken the form of a dwarf, elf, orc, human, giant and many other races.

This discussion has been closed.